Ar was the weapon !

Gun info was just released on Fox news. The nut bought an AR on may 17 and another one on may 20th. 375 rounds of ammo day after that .One was found inside the truck another he used to kill the precious children. Guy shot his granny that used to work at the school. The door he went thru was unlocked. He went inside ONE classroom and shot everyone in there. Some are still battling for their lives in the hospital. Apparently he knew how to get inside.

I'm not going to poke the bear on here with the AR issue but the gun unfortunately did what it was designed to do. Yes anything can become a weapon of death but somethings are capable of killing in a shorter time span than others......

So it's the semi-automatic carbines fault?

[quote=jbyrd63]Gun info was just released on Fox news. The nut bought an AR on may 17 and another one on may 20th. 375 rounds of ammo day after that .One was found inside the truck another he used to kill the precious children. Guy shot his granny that used to work at the school. The door he went thru was unlocked. He went inside ONE classroom and shot everyone in there. Some are still battling for their lives in the hospital. Apparently he knew how to get inside.

I'm not going to poke the bear on here with the AR issue but the gun unfortunately did what it was designed to do. Yes anything can become a weapon of death but somethings are capable of killing in a shorter time span than others.....................................................................................................................................................................................................Be careful in your statements ....Just as much damage would have been done with a 9mm handgun with 5 or 6 8 round clips..... or a pump shotgun with buckshot. . these were innocent kids at close range. A madman with evil in his heart. The ones who want the ar's won't hesitate once they get rolling until all guns are taken......in the end even single shot 22's ...... we need to work hard and do our part to ensure a stable morally strong society. Even then evil will raise it's ugly head every now and then !

Under those conditions, captive targets, he could have killed, or at least fired, just as fast with a 10/22 so don't go down that path.

Tell you what, since you brought up the the topic why don't you set an example and turn in everything in your possession that's purpose and design is to kill.
You talk about killing more rapidly, where do u draw the line? How many of your weapons are more than single shots. All firearms are designed to be more deadly than say a bow. So maybe we give them all up? The second amendment is designed to give the populace the right to defend their constitutional rights. That means military type weapons. Don't believe in the Constitution any more? Your starting to reason with your emotions and that doesn't turn out well if u look around.

There is no difference in a semi-auto AR platform rifle then other semi auto rifles such as a Ruger 10-22. Other than a dust cover and forward assist (if installed) and possibly the cycling function of the weapon via either gas or recoil or the caliber. A gun is a tool, plain and simple. A person with evil intentions will attempt to follow through with those evil intentions no matter the method.

Let's add an AR to that classroom in the hands of the teacher. I bet the outcome would have been different assuming the the teacher cared enough to have a basic understanding of it's use.

We can spitball this til kingdom come but at the end of the day it all boils down to insanity and evil running rampant in our society. Until we fix that no one is safe and any tool will be used to inflict harm.

By design most of my rifles hold 4 rounds . My henry 22 holds 16 in the tube. Hand guns 15-17 round clips. Don't own an AR never have never will. I hunt any and everything I want to with a bolt gun.

Jump up and pump your chest . I don't give a rats behind who owns what or how many . But all the AR's ever made aren't worth one child's life. Could he have done the same carnage with another weapon ? You bet . But the question ANY parent or clear thinking adult must ask. WOULD he have done this if he hadn't had the knowledge of what the weapon was capable of doing? We will never know...THATS more of the issue than gun control stopping at these style of weapons.
Most criminals won't undertake a crime if they don't have the equipment they think they need to pull it off. How many mass shooters show up with a 4 shot bolt gun? EVERY one of the shooters in this lifetime have used something with a high capacity or rapid reload weapon. So don't start that crap . Just google the AR and who and what it was designed for ? That's where the argument looses traction. Heck a hatchet can kill but none of the mass killings in the US where done with one.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite_AR-15

Lizzie Borden comes to mind.

Don't think a 10-22 comes in a caliber that after the victim was shot they have to use DNA to identify the victims. That's what happened here . Some of the kids were unrecognizable do to damage from the firearm.

My friend your thinking with feelings again.....

jbyrd, I've always tried to give you the benefit of the doubt when so many here say or imply you are an idiot. I'll no longer make that mistake. ANYONE who gives the weapon ANY level of responsibility in this, or any shooting,,, ... wow. How ignorant.

Jbyrd63 do you support the 2nd amendment and can you tell me intent of it? I doubt the founders wanted their militias armed with less superior weapons. That would be unreasonable.

You obviously don't understand why the 2A was written.

Shall not be infringed is crystal clear.

Have fun reloading your bolt guns when the real shooting starts.

I'm in the same boat......

Okay, let's outlaw ARs. You willing to outlaw gasoline?

The Happy Land Fire killed 87 with only a dollars worth of gas.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire

Please read it and take note. The arsonist was an "immigrant" let into this country by democrat Jimmy Carter. Funny how that works, mass murder always goes back to democrat policy.

Maybe we need to outlaw democrats?

Do you have a link to your claim. DNA results take two days to a few weeks to come back with a match from a lab. this happened yesterday. The firearm didn't cause the damage, it would have been the shot placement caused by the projectile fired. Was he using .50 Cal or something?

calling bull on that

shot plenty of things with 223 in soft point generally entry in and no hole out you can't even see blood half the time

now that is not people but we aren't that thin skinned that we just explode

use a little common sense you can shoot a deer with a 300 win mag and it still looks like a deer

not if a lot of rounds were fired into the face , or back of the head maybe

Um, you call yourself a trapper/hunter/shooter and you believe that BS? You're deranged.

There is not a single shoulder fired firearm projectile that I'm aware of that does the sort of damage you claim.

I don't usually comment on too many post that turn into a hostile debate. And I try to get along with all.... even make an effort to debate peacefully. But people with the thinking in their head that's it is the gun fault...... they are the biggest reason stuff like this happens ! And the biggest reason it will continue to happen!

Best statement ever made. You win.

I understand very well what the 2nd A was written for. I also know there was not any weapons in existent when it was written that held 30- 100 rds.

You might want to read one shot one kill. Then bad mouth a bolt gun. But I got broad shoulders. I don't see the need for an ar style with up to 100 round drum cap. Unless you want to kill people. Call me what you want. I've lived a blessed life and never needed to Rambo up and brainwashed into tactical life style.
K snow what shooting you referring to?
Is Canada going to invade us? mexico? give me reason to go get one and 10,000 rds of ammo. Oh wait can't those people have hoarded it into unaffordable prices....

The second was not written for invasion, although that would be another benefit of being an armed citizen. The second was written for that time when our own govt becomes tyrannical.
Oh, and they did have weapons when it was written. The common man could own a cannon or any other weapon common to military use contrary to what joe says.

You know what the purpose of a milita is ? Yes it is to kill people. Hope that don't sent you feelers into panick. Truthfully the more u talk the less I think you need any weapon designed to kill.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-school-shooting-uvalde-parents-kids-dna-test-reunite/

And u don't "understand " near as much as u think u do.

for someone saying that they don't what to poke the bear this thread is poking the bear.

https://www.businessinsider.com/fam...e-dna-swabs-help-identify-victims-2022-5

Another day, another facet of life that jbyrd has become the expert at

It seems like when I was growing up in the 90s nobody had ar’s, when a bunch of people would get together shooting not a one brought out an armalite or an ak. Why was that? Seriously. They’ve been around since the mid century.

This is a serious question.

Some people you just learn to ignore.

Did the bullet also remove their finger prints ?

Ever seen someone shot in the face by a high velocity round ? Doesn't much matter the caliber or how many other rounds were in the magazine, or the rate of fire.

Also, you may not be aware that this same guy had previously made a habit of shooting people on the street with a BB gun. Seems to me that eliminates your argument that he did this because he knew the gun would make it easier.

Someone inclined to shoot at people with a BB gun most likely deserves a bit more attention from LEO. There are so many red flags in this kid's life that I am really not surprised at his behavior.

Here is another example from just a month or so ago.

https://zububrothers.com/2022/05/25...rests-including-murder-charge-from-2017/

Jay bird you’re a rare bird. Can’t figure you out.

No coondagger not claiming to be an expert. But you guys mouth and boast "this is America people have the right to their opinions" I give mine and I'm the devil coming to your door for your guns. LOl

I don't see the need to have one I won't buy one. It is America you have the right to buy as many as you want until it's not allowed. You have the right to your opinion as why you need one. But like most folks now adays someone disagrees with you and No holds barred. Call them stupid , ignorant, communist , ect. Dems call everyone that doesn't believe the way they do racist and you pounce . What's makes you guys any better than the idiot liberals that mouth if someone makes a point they don't like.... ???

Yea, "it did what it was designed to do". The shooter is not at fault. That's why I lock my guns up. Every night I can hear them scratching at the door trying to get out and cause mayhem. Better get your priorities straight Mr, Fudd. 5 minutes after they ban AR's, they will be coming after your single shot .22. They don't want some guns, they want ALL GUNS and they won't stop until they get them.

I live with a smoke detector in my house and never needed it but if I do ill be glad I have it. Your rational is very weak. But that is norm when thinking with your emotions. You say you know the intent of the 2nd but then act like a weapon that might have advantages in warfare is bad...... again doesn't add up...I'd work more on your understanding and then you won't to be so dependent on broad shoulders. Carrying heavy burdens get old.
I'll also add the argument that you don't want one or feel you need one isn't an argument to take someone else's constitutional right away.

No weapons in existence? Go study history and get back to us. There were repeaters and breachloaders in existence when 2A was written. And the sole purpose was for the citizen to bear arms every bit the equivalent to if not superior to the Brown Bess and Charlesville smooth bore muskets fielded by the two mightiest standing armies of the time. And in many ways our Pennsylvania long rifles were far superior and more deadly than either of those. Just look to Timothy Murphy and his shot that took down General Fraser at Saratoga.
There were privately funded military units, both land and naval, in use from that time until the cusp of the twentieth century. Thirteen private yachts were converted to gun boats during the Spanish American War some privately funded. The Civil War saw many privately funded units on both sides taken into military service. Even our Constitution recognizes not only 2A but the ownership of warships as privateers.

Your grasp of the underlying principles of 2A is lacking.

Many more people are killed every year in this country with hands and feet than with ANY and ALL rifles combined. I bet if we chopped off everyone's hands and feet, the world would be a much more peaceful place.

You can get 30'ish round magazines for various glock 9's and probably other semi-auto pistols. And be easier to hide.

You guys make me sick. The ones that say a firearm can't do enough damage to a SMALL CHILDS HEAD that they couldn't identify them ...
HOPE you looked at my link Heck turn on any news outlet!!

I hope when I click on this link again I see some apologies but I bet I don't

You must have ran in different circles than I. In the 80s the fellas still had ranch rifles for the most part with a few ARs scattered about. In the early 90s when clinton peed everyone off we all got an AR or AK to play with. Maybe play is a bad word, but a lot of cheap ammo when down the range from them guns. Even seen a little hunting done with them just cause we could.

Drugs are bad, m'kay.

Oh wait, those are illegal.

Slow down and take deep breaths man. The more u talk the less sense u make.

Quite a few AKs around here at that time

Jbyrd63. What the heck turned you into a democrat over night ???
Sorry you have to hear tis from an imported Kraut, but the 2A was not written so you could hunt with a single shot or bolt action rifle. When it was conceive, the founder did not even have busting clays in their mind. ..... Just saying.
It wasn't the weapon that killed those kids. It was the maniac that did it. A whole bunch of the folks on here own semi automatic rifles and shotguns. I'll bet you that not one of them ever upped and went into a school or other place and shot up a bunch of people. Its takes a person to do that.
Freedom is inherently unsafe. You yourself can make it somewhat safer by carrying whenever you are awake.

Ok maybe so. We always hunted and shot rifles , pistols, shotguns but I never shot an ar till I was in my twenties.

Gee, CBS. Now there's a reliable source. Not like they would ever make anything up.

I believe the emotions of some of the hot heads on here would be different if it was one of their kids heads that was peeled open. A good question would be who the (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) was that sold the weapons and ammo to the (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) that carried out the horrific act?

Kid was a tranny. Had mental issues, also an immigrant here illegally. To say it is the guns fualt is pretty far down the list.

Im gonna side with you about jbyrd's comment too ADC........what a ridiculous statement about the AR and what its capable of.

Yes I need to walk away from this thread . BUT this post was because 3 or 4 comments said I was wrong that DNA wasn't being used . I was making it up . There is 2 links I posted saying that the bodies were unrecognizable so D N A was used.
Just google it. No less than 8 items confirming DNA was nessecary to identify some bodies.......

I'll add you to the list with jbyrd.

Blaming the dealers for this.... holy crap.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en...1.34.heirloom-hp..23.22.3315.TvMzzmRTH58

OK finster click on this 7 different including fox saying same thing about DNA

They are not just coming after AR’s, jbyrd, but all firearms including your bolt action firearms. Read between the lines.

Yea AR isn't capable of anything . That's why the US army ordered 80,000 of them in 1962

More Rino’s here than I suspected ….

Maybe not in the crowd you run with but I could always find a guy that had a colt sporter in the 80s, even some class III full autos . They may not have been common as they were expensive as all get out and we had yet to see the M16 parts surplused out creating the need for new manufactured lowers (the only M16 part not surplused or sold). Once new lowers were made available the builders kits then full on clones became available and prices came down. But even before that we saw the mini-14 and tons of M1 carbines and Garands. Seemed like every other family had a carbine.

Good grief. Who sold a car to a drunk driver? Who built the bridge someone jumped off of? Who made the fertilizer that someone made a bomb out of? Who made the knife that someone got stabbed with? Your statement is asinine.

Fixed it for you.

the new outlet said parents were asked to submit DNA samples to confirm ID not they were only identifiable by DNA you usully liek to point out flaws in stories , why not here?

it wasn't that the parents couldn't ID the kids , it is that they aren't going to likely be asked to ID the kids so that they don't see the dead kids and the authorities don't want to be wrong in an ID and put the wrong kid in the wrong grave

this is awful and a tragedy that no one was there to stop this person from harming children

Your talking about using emotions to reason then calling some defending the Constitution hot heads...... ???.I'll ask you a simple question, do you believe that people in extreme emotional distress such as in this situation make rational decisions and conclusions? If not please explain why your above statement has any relevance.

I'll say it again.

Maybe we need to outlaw democrats?

Confirm all background checks, waiting period, whatever were followed to a “t” per that state’s law. If this (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) obtained these weapons illegally then there should be some type of legal recourse on the seller.

This shows that you don't understand the 2nd amendment. It doesn't have to be ALLOWED. You don't need permission, it is a constitutional RIGHT!

I quoted myself because this is my final comment on this thread. Some need to read this one and not just the title and mouth off !!!
NO ONE has mentioned MY OPINION is my freedom. NO one has mentioned anything except I'm the devil and ignorant because I don't think like you do ( dems favorite tactic). But I want you to message the parents of these kids and ask them their opinion of AR ownership.....
You guys have a great day . Hope you are blessed to be healthy . I'm going to get my "hunting" rifles out and oil them so when they come get them they will look good !!!!

Good grief. Who sold a car to a drunk driver? Who built the bridge someone jumped off of? Who made the fertilizer that someone made a bomb out of? Who made the knife that someone got stabbed with? Your statement is asinine. [/quote
Finster, I couldn’t agree more.

Sounds like it was legally bought by the kid so if the kid appeared to be sane when he purchased the guns, you can't blame the dealer

39,773 people in the U.S. were killed with firearms last year.750,000 died from illicit drug use.Wheres you uproar about drugs flowing across the southern boarder,,condoned by your liberal buddies.

why so few ARs in the 1980 & 90s , because they were 1000 dollars and an AK was 300 and an SKS was 79.99

why more now ? decades of politicians telling people they shouldn't have them. then 94-2004 you could only get an over priced one with deleted cosmetic features and little magazines

the price on a AR is now lower than most AKs and nearly the same as an SKS

why wouldn't you buy the more accurate , US made , all parts interchangeable AR it is Americas rifle

it is a good tool for lots of things , and yes it gets used for evil some times , so do puppies and candy it doesn't make puppies and candy evil.

If he just turned 18 -- he probably didn't have much time to become a felon -- aren't there questions on the form that were probably not answered truthfully?

Because "Your opinion and your freedom" if enacted would step on the freedoms of everyone else.

So sellers are now required to do a full psychological exam of all buyers? Or maybe we should all submit ourselves to a psychological exam in order to get some sort of authorization to exercise our God given rights.

But if I deny a buyer due to my "predjudice" that they are up to no good then I'm the bigot that gets sued.

I know around here dealers have refused sales to whack jobs which they have every right. Maybe this kid put on a good appearance in the shop.

This answers my question, because I did shoot some sks’ when I was younger. And then I was in high school during those years you said the ar’s were restricted.

Edit: not all those years, I was able to pass hs in the usual 4years....barely lol

Tranny = Mental dis order = no gun for you .

yep -- check out questions E,F, and K on 4473 ---- chances are he lied.

Take the guns and they'll throw bombs instead. Poison the waterhole is another way they did it in the old days. There's always a way for a sick mind to act out.

NO ONE mentioned YOUR OPINION, because your opinion doesn't really matter does it, just like my opinion doesn't matter, when it comes to constitutional rights. It's a constitutional right to bear arms. But it isn't about the inanimate object. It's about the person who used that tool.

Good job on trying to use emotion to prove your point, real class act. Go ask the parents of these kids... Ask parents who have lost a person to a drunk driver how they feel about people owning cars? The bottom line is a person made a decision to commit a terrible act.

A "hunting" rifle is a rifle used for hunting, semi-automatic modern sporting rifles are used for hunting all the time, making them "hunting" rifles.

Based on firearm use for hunting data (I'll see if I can find it) the use of modern sporting rifles for hunting is growing at a faster rate than traditional bolt action rifles.

I hope you are happy and healthy also. Glad you are going to go oil your "hunting" rifles so "they" can come take them and burn them. I know when they come to take mine, I hope they are careful, the barrel will be extremely hot.

I'm done... It's like wrestling with a pig, you both get dirty and you eventually realize the pig likes it.

yup us broke students in the 90s had an SKS and brown paper sacks of ammo at 10 cents a round because we couldn't afford to buy a spam can of our own at the time.

18year olds today also have 27 credit card offers in the mail two weeks after their birthday

there are also at least a million 18 year old AR owners in 2022 my son is 18 and graduated from high school nearly everyone in his friend group owns an AR they are all 18-19 working full time + jobs in factories or construction almost across the board. it is the economy we are in right now.

I forgot about the Russian and Chinese guns. They were cheap in the eighties and were everywhere.

And, yes, they were the gun to have if you were insane and planning to shoot up a school. All through the eighties and nineties the battle cry of the gun grabbers was "who needs an AK"? And just like the AR they fired these horrific mystical bullets capable of disintegration of entire bodies.

Yet FBI data of the time reported that rifles of ALL TYPES were used in less than 1% of all gun crime.

Well Bush the First banned the Chinese ones outright then Slick Willy closed off the Russian and Eastern European ones while making the ARs somehow safer so you couldn't bayonet a school.

But conveniently they allowed the ban to sunset and the AK and SKS to come back in as parts only as long as the receiver stayed out or were chopped.

Silly them thought that would fix the problem.

And still today rifles stay around that 1% mark of gun crime.

But what I see is in all that time the powers that be have yet to address the underlying fundamental problems of dealing with the criminally insane.

Is anyone surprised that jbyrd would has this opinion? He's a bum that leeches off society and demonstrates profound ignorance in each and every post he has makes on this site.

He did it again here.

Every gun owner in America should be demanding that more money be spent on keeping these crazies outside the schools. The technology exists and we need to use it. Instead we argue that an AR is only a tool and protected by the constitution. That’s true and it is a darn good one. It took a long time to get where we are as a society and that is not going to change quickly. Arguing about the tool used is exactly what they want you to do. If we spent a quarter of the time contacting representatives as we do attacking each other on here we would be doing more to protect our rights.

Carry on.

He was born in North Dakota from what I read

You’re almost sounding like a hater! No problem it happens when people feel trapped and out of control with what’s near and dear to their heart.

I'm quite sure there are. But they are skating on thin ice. One ethnic, or lifestyle choice gets denied and some ACLU type will be serving them papers.

I remember years ago working a sporting goods counter being told by management that I could not refuse to sell ammo to anyone unless that crip bandana wearing gentleman clearly stated his next stop was a drive by.

I've been consistent on the jbyrd issue. See search function for my prior work.

High capacity rapid fire weapons started with the Spencer rifle during the American Civil war, so they have been around for a long time. The issue is more about mental illness than about guns. That's what needs to be addressed to combat these types of events, and my opinion is that they will continue until something is done to address mental health in America first. There's a lot of hatred and divisiveness being spread around today, and being connected to social media and the internet constantly has been proven to be part of the mental health issues we have today. These mass murders never used to happen with this frequency.

I’ll take your word for it. Consistency doesn’t change the tone of your post.

Now back to the problems we face as gun owners who want to protect the 2nd and children.

jbyrd, calm down brother. Don't let your emotions cloud your judgement. You are very quick to say that "folks now adays someone disagrees with you and No holds barred. Call them stupid , ignorant, communist , ect" and then you follow that by saying " idiot liberals"

It seems to me like you are describing yourself

Yep I just lost all respect I ever gave him. Typically Fudd mentality. All I need to hunt with is. Guess what they will call your deer gun? It will be a sniper rifle. You forget the guy shooting people fom the tower with a bolt gun

The 2nd amendment is not about hunting. You sir are making me sad for our country it truly lost.. Better start voting Democrat. Your acting like one.

As someone who has to deal with mental illness in his family it is virtually impossible to get help for someone over the age of 18 that doesn’t want that help. How do you propose to change that? I’m all ears.

I didn’t realize there were still anti-second amendment hunters, trappers and gun owners.

Lots of them. they are easily spotted. The key identifier is... I support the second amendment, But...

That let's you know they don't actually support the second amendment or individual rights.

Even going beyond that and dig a little deeper.

A bunch of gun owners out there say, I support the right to own guns, but only the guns I like to own or think you should be allowed to own. Because they don't see the use for that tool.
A bunch of hunters out there say, I support hunting, but not all hunting or that type of hunting.
A bunch of trappers out there say, I support trapping, but not that type of trapping.

They usually have that viewpoint because they haven't been exposed to that type of hunting, trapping or firearm so they don't like it.

Like hunting deer or bear or cougars with dogs, they haven't done it so are against it. Some of those same people use a dog to hunt upland birds, squirrels, racoons or rabbits and think nothing of it.

The gun nuts will never be allowed to have anything near what the government has,regardless what it says on an old piece of paper.

Here you go jbyrd, all you need for deer hunting. But expect to have turn in the scope as that would be a dangerous accessory and you'll need to get it in a different caliber as that's a military round.

So what if he showed up with 2 five gallon gas cans and a match? Would that make you feel better?

I have an ar and will be keeping it and my 30round mags....thanks anyway.

Perfect example that refutes Jbyrds claim about someone not agreeing with someone else on opinion and they jump on them.

Me and Marty don't agree on a few things. But, we agree on this....

Correct

I'm keeping my ARs also, Marty. And my other black guns. And my hundreds of high capacity mags.

Oh yeah, suppressors too.

I might even buy some more. Just because.

Just because is a very good reason. Except I add just because the democrats and wackos don’t want me to.

"I'm not going to poke the bear on here with the AR issue....", then proceeds to poke it.

Molon Labe = Come take them = Is my only response

If, instead of AR Rifles being the gun of the day to blame, what if all these shootings happened with standard Lever Action Rifles ? Would the Politicians be demanding to ban Lever Action Rifles ??? They don't seem to understand that it is not the Gun that is to blame, how about starting with person that did the shooting !

AR' at the consumer level is designed for sport shooting. Get educated on a subject before making a comment like that. Maybe stick to sec sports. Smdh.

Them you have the choice not to buy one.

Yup. Back in the day my squirrel gun was a M37 winchester break action 410. I would hold two extra shells between my last three fingers of my shooting hand and could eject and reload by feel. I regularly could keep up with my brothers model 12 pump 12ga for the first three shots.

Its not the tool but the user.

He cut his own face up.

He killed his own grandma.

He killed elementary kids.


13And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
.

God didn't destroy them because of the size of their magazine clips on their assault rocks.

Any wonder the first "crime" was murder?

A friend of mine lost his kid in an automobile accident due to the oncoming driver trying to send a text message instead of paying attention to the road. Do you think the dad is irrational for asking to ban cell phones and automobiles? What say you JByrd? Should you toss your phone and keys in the closest trashcan?

Ol dad

Your brother musta been pretty slow with that pump gun.

Nah, he was to busy trying to recover from recoil.

Because I insisted we score by hits not just noise made.

My bet is more involved background checks, possibly a waiting period, and red flag laws of some type for sure after this horrific event. Republicans in senate will send 10 to the yes vote on some form of bipartisan bill.

And mass killings will continue. amspoker has it right.

The AR platform is the Kentucky rifle of it's time.
Being from KY, you should know that.

Almost 100 years ago, a nut killed 38 elementary school children in Michigan.
Bath school massacre.

It ain't the tool.used, it's the nut doing the killing.
He killed even quicker w/out a firearm

God bless their little souls.

This is the alleged shooter. Likely why the media is silent on calling out and highlighting the perp.
He's one of their "protected" mental disorder cases.

Relax, I can't afford a tank. That fellow in Toronto didn't need a tank. Remember him?

JByrd must never seen My Lai massacre photos that were in Life magazine when I was a kid. All shot with .223 ball ammo. The dead were very recognizable so not buying "ID 'ed only through DNA"

500 million firearms in the USA, probably 50 or more AR style platforms. Hundreds and hundreds of million "assault" weapons world wide. Even if ARs were banned now and all "turned in", there would still be millions out there, plus the global market. The cost might deter some young guy from buying one (by the way where did this 18 year come up with the cash to buy 2 such rifles in short order...?) but if a person was determined to get one...

What happens when a shooter shows up with a SAW or an old M-60 from some 3rd world place, ban machine guns from the military...??

Future leftist had he lived. Now a sinner in the hands of an angry God.

There are "programmable" people out there. If you don't think so, the Clowns in Action and others across the globe have been working on it since the 1950s. Do you think all that research didn't result in some sort of workable human "bot"...?

I personally believe that there are ways to "open the doors" to pure evil that gets set in these types of people. The being doing such killing may still be in human form but its being fully guided by a demon. Satan always wants the blood sacrifice of innocents. Its been that way all along, certainly from the days of Moloch forward....

When things commit atrocities like this they do not desreve to be referred to as humans,imo. They are just a thing or an it as far as i'm concerned. The quicker this foolishness is ended about Rights ,the better for the sane world.
Being from Canada you know we have very restricted gun rights and getting lesser by the day. I always questioned why people needed magazines which hold so many bullets and I still do, however
--What I can say in support of your 2nd is DO NOT GIVE UP A SINGLE THING. Make then work for any gain. Once they get a toe in the door watch out. I hope your bumpstock gesture isn't that crack in the door.

LOL,,mine was the Winchester Model 12 in 16 gauge.Run some slugs through that if you want to see recoil.Still have it,,or I should say one of my sons has it.

I was never a fan of black rifles, never thought I'd own one until just over a year ago. I see a government completely out of control and taking aim at me for the crime of being patriotic. I now own a black rifle along with several 30 round magazines and several hundred rounds of ammo. It's not deer I intend to fend off.

Freak ! At least its dead now.

You nailed it Jayme.

Prayers for the innocent children and the grief stricken families.

x2 Tony. That is way classier than my thoughts right now

I have those same thoughts right now also Lefty.

Jbyrd has finally revealed the real himself.
I PREDICTED IT!! LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

Not recognizable xcept by DNA
JUST A NEW MEDIA "FED" TAG LINE. *HORRIBLE SOUNDING WORDSPEAK

So They are showing pics on TV about the School shooting.
Looks like all hispanics involved- the cops,the shooter and the victims?

True story

A bit late though , what a shame queer bashing is illegal .....

I agree with wolfer. White dog I have no idea and I wonder how other countries deal with it?

Until we accept the freaks proclivities as normal, there can be no peace.

I do not understand why we focus so much on what weapon was used for this terrible tragedy? The person that did this is the problem. Would it not be that big of a deal had he not used an AR? Unfortunately you can't stop crazy and when you find that out it's to late. He could have done the same damage with most any semiauto gun. What we need to do is pray for the families that will have to live with this the rest of their lives an the children's life's that were cut short. Not argue over whether an AR is bad or good. God bless everyone involved and that is affected by this tragedy. I can not imagine getting that phone call.

How many kids die in car accidents every year?
Think how many lives we'd save if a national speed limit of 5 mph were enacted and strictly enforced!

How many kids drown every year?
Ban pools, fence off ALL water!

Accidental electrocution?
Ban electric, plus, it's GREEN!

Guess my first impressions of you were spot on!

Can anyone from Maine explain the yellow flag law you have there? I know it includes due process and a dr opinion.
I'm not in support of most red flag laws as the can be weaponized against gun owners and no due process and failed several times already in Buffalo and other places.

He suffers from we-have-to-do-something-ism whether it works or not.

They must have snuck that in there, never heard of it. Got a link?

CRICKETS from jbyrd just like I PREDICTED

Because it is used to strike fear in hearts (emotion over logic) and thereby enable gun grabs to further political goals of disarmament. In a word, politics.

They say the town is 80% hispanic, 60 miles from the border.........but nationality isn't the problem here.
Back in the wild wild west, a young kid wanted to be a gunman, he went out and challenged the oldtimer gunmen. Some made it, most didn't. Nothing has changed much except there's nobody nowdays to stop the young wannabe gunman . There needs to be an oldtimer gunman there in the schools today to get past.

That town is not far from the border. Lots of hispanics in south Texas.

Boco's trying a bait-and-switch here. Nationality doesn't make a difference. All races have done this. The kid was being bullied and no parent to whip the arse of the kids doing the bullying. So the killer did it himself.

Yes, this is a small rural Hispanic community in TX. Makes NO difference! On Fox and Friends this morning, I was impressed with how they were speaking about the tragedy of the situation and the mental state of the shooter. Not any "gun's fault" nonsense.

There isnt anything to question about magazine capacities as far as regulation. Personal choice as to whether certain size magazines are practical or not. Would i want to carry a glock with a 33 round mag as a EDC gun? Certainly not. Wouldnt want to carry a derringer either. Nothing wrong with 30 round mags for ARs. Personally i run 10 round mags for bench shooting and hunting because its easier to shoot off a bench with the shorter mag and not as cumbersome in the field for hunting. At home when its in seld defense mode, the 30s go back in. If i ever get to go hog hunting or prairie dog hunting the 30s will be loaded.

Boco, my father is a retired DPS trooper and lives in the area. We shop in Uvalde all the time. Yes, Uvalde county has a large Hispanic population but there are many whites as well. We live together, work together, we shop together, we BBQ together, and we go to Church together Uvalde County is a hunting and ranching county. Uvalde has many Hispanics and whites that love one another and are friends. Again, many of the people that live in Uvalde are working class and work in the Agricultural industry (farming and ranching).

My dad told me that some of his former colleagues informed him that the crime scene was the most horrific scene one could imagine. The gunmen specifically head shot all the children at very close range. Also, many of the survivors had their faces blown off and left for dead.

This is wickedness and evil at a level that is hard to comprehend. I pray and know that God will raise those little children up in His Kingdom, and give the families peace.

The shooter was no doubt mentally ill. Transgenderism is a mental illness, but no one wants to talk about that; instead we glorify it.

Ten and 20 rounders are the same size. The 10 has a block limiting capacity. Mine keep 20 rounder in them. I also don't like the longer 30s. But I may or may not have over 50 30s put up.

Now Now . HOLD ON there ! I said that the couldn't identify some of them because of destruction AND I WAS told REEEAL fast by the experts on here that they had shot hundreds of rounds of 223 ammo and it didn't tear flesh like that !!! You smart a holes going to call him a liar. ?

Jbyrd, please shut the (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) up. Moron.

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UT...roid-browser&q=maine+yellow+flag+law

Yes upstate I said I was done with this post but still waiting on the apology that called me a liar that they used DNA . You know it takes weeks and months to get back according to the know it all.



Still wanting to know any thing I said that was WRONG . NOT different from many on here's OPINION. Bet more on here feel like I do that an AR IS NOT "NEEDED" . But I never said you didn't have the right to "WANT " one there is a difference. Yes the 2nd A is needed but also the 1ST A. My right to speak how I feel. Did I propose a law ! Didn't send a letter to happy Hal or Mitch ! Just voiced MY opinion.
I am willing to guess more on here feel the same as I do but either ain't got the nads to say it or would rather not endure the name calling.


Yes the nut was evil and the ball was dropped by several people that lead to this, Who left the door unlocked? But fussing and name calling, pointing fingers won't change the out come.
So NOW i'm finished you guys have a good night

Truth hurting ??

X2. Jbryd, you are a better stock market expert. Use your time more wisely.

The early report says he was armed with a pistol and a long gun. How about we wait till the coroner releases their report. Now I don't know where everybody is getting a reliable and accurate report, I don't believe here is one at this point. A long gun can be a shotgun or a rifle and both can do great damage at close range. Time will tell, but this early into the situation and info is sketchy. Those that oppose the ar type rifle, and they are in this conversation, do not help the situation. Any gun is capable of killing, in fact, I was taught to realize that early in my life. As far as a coroner's report, we the public may not be privy to such facts, especially if a handgun was used. It won't fit the narrative.

I'm not gonna pile on you for now, but if you want to test your assertion, substitute any other inanimate object in place of AR.
Cars, stairways, tricycles, school buses, minivans, carnival rides, zoos, kitchen knives, grandpa's single shot .410.

Can you see how that gun grabber logic is actually illogical?

calling bull on that

shot plenty of things with 223 in soft point generally entry in and no hole out you can't even see blood half the time

now that is not people but we aren't that thin skinned that we just explode

use a little common sense you can shoot a deer with a 300 win mag and it still looks like a deer

not if a lot of rounds were fired into the face , or back of the head maybe

if we look at the context of 1775 the citizens had slower to load but much longer range arms

they also had the same arms as the military and the 2nd amendment insured they should have the arms of the military that was it's purpose and not only that but we should manufacturer both arms and ammunition that we should never become depended on others for our arms.

so I want my hand grenades and explosives back if you want to play that angle yes these were available to citizens , my great grandfather used dynomite on the farm it could be purchased at the hardware store no license necessary

also breech loading cannons were around the last time the supreme court struck down and attempted ban on citizens owning cannons so I'm going to need a breach loading cannon also

and since every alphabet agency has written about how useful for the protection of agents the PDW is well it seems like the intent should be PDWs are in the best interest of the people it is a personal defensive weapon it is right in the name.

something like 600 gun deaths annually are rifles of any type , another 500 shotguns of any type

there have to be like 25 million AR style guns in the US yes a few a year will get used in a crime , criminals do look for the best tools just like everyone else they want something that works , we are starting to see more people defend themselves against attack's with the same style of rifle one old guy against 4 young armed criminals
it is happening

Left I know where you are coming from . BUT that papas 410 single barrel won't let you reload and kill 21 people in the same time the gunman did. YES THE GUNMAN IS AT FAULT !!!!! NOT THE GUN !!!!!
My point is NO mass shooters have ever went into a school carrying a single barrel shotgun .....
Good night

good grief

Obviously, the answer is no.
Jybyrd, I apologize for calling you a moron. It was not necessary.

Boco, my father is a retired DPS trooper and lives in the area. We shop in Uvalde all the time. Yes, Uvalde county has a large Hispanic population but there are many whites as well. We live together, work together, we shop together, we BBQ together, and we go to Church together Uvalde County is a hunting and ranching county. Uvalde has many Hispanics and whites that love one another and are friends. Again, many of the people that live in Uvalde are working class and work in the Agricultural industry (farming and ranching).

My dad told me that some of his former colleagues informed him that the crime scene was the most horrific scene one could imagine. The gunmen specifically head shot all the children at very close range. Also, many of the survivors had their faces blown off and left for dead.

This is wickedness and evil at a level that is hard to comprehend. I pray and know that God will raise those little children up in His Kingdom, and give the families peace.

The shooter was no doubt mentally ill. Transgenderism is a mental illness, but no one wants to talk about that; instead we glorify it. [/quote]



Now Now . HOLD ON there ! I said that the couldn't identify some of them because of destruction AND I WAS told REEEAL fast by the experts on here that they had shot hundreds of rounds of 223 ammo and it didn't tear flesh like that !!! You smart a holes going to call him a liar. ?


[/quote]
Sounds like point blank execution. The hot gas alone will blow things apart. He xould have done more damage with a cheep sword or machete on confined elementary kids. It would not have got as much attention as gun fire either. Heck as easy as dispatching with an ax Handel. But go brain dead and get all emotional.

But I will publicly tell you your are a threat to this country and my family's freedom with your way of thinking. Just like the far left that thinking is leading to the destruction of my country and security of my family. So all those advocating for fire arms restriction are the enemy. That means you are the enemy threatening my family's safe security , and constitutional rights. All those that threaten my familys rights get treated with the same contempt and disgust. When it finally hits the fan hope you can protect and provide for yours with your 4 shot bolt gun if you can still have it at that point. You will not be welcome to the excess food, water or protection my family and farm produce. It will be hard but I will watch your kind starve with ther rationing and shortages. You will beg for the mark. You made your bed and all. Sad but you fuds are worse for the 2nd than the far left nuts.

Maybe your head will clear up and you will be able to think clearly in the morning but I doubt it. Read history and understand it may help you some.

Edit.

Have you ever had one of your kids killed by someone else. I have and along with it both myself and wife has life long physically problems to boot.

I lied I would feed you. Just the same as I feed several probably democrats when I take deliveries of our extre to the local food bank. Just can't have a Judas to close around. They turn on you. I have little patience for thos willing to sell out our rights. I think it shows.

Or take up singing.

The problem as always is obvious.
One side thinks their point of view is the only one and berates someone with a differing opinion.
No wonder so many fly off the deep end.
One persons opinion is just as valid as an opposing opinion.

Why even mention ARs are not needed.? There's no call to ever make that statement unless its intended to accomplish an agenda/political point.

Its never about need anyways. Need is always the result of a want. If you want to live, you will need to drink water and eat food. If I want to hit something at range, I'll need some kind of implement that will do so. If I want to by the cheapest gun that can put a round down range, I'll need to buy some short of singleshot gun. If I want to defend myself against a horde of zombies, I'll need something that can put either makes a big crater or a gun with as close to unlimited capacity as possible.

Differing opinions is OK Boco, and we should always respect the opposing position.

Redefining age old truths and words that have meaning is different.

Um yeah,one side/ persons offers their opinion to help remove ones constitutional right. The opposing side wishes to stand with that Constitution

I'm sure everyone is familiar with the Keltec KSG shotgun. Not your fathers or founding father's shotgun. Will hold almost a box of shells. What kind of damage do you think that would do?

You said even one child's life- are you movin the goal post?

Large capacity magazines. To be clear,I am not against them. I have just never had the luxury of legally owning such a rifle in order to appreciate the value of the xtra firepower. I assume its great for the different circumstances you mentioned.
I can find no words to describe this massacre. It pains when I see the children , the age of my grandson, in the videos.

jbyrd seems to be somewhat confused between wants, needs and rights.
I don't really have a need for an AR at this time, and I don't want one enough to go out and get one, but I absolutely have the right to own one and have no interest in giving up that, or any other, constitutional right because he doesn't think I need one.

Sounds just like my stupid cousin from California .....he once said " nobody needs a 30 Rd clip , nobody "



Bla bla bla ........ infected with California liberal mind rot .....no cure

Untill its proven false.

Hey boco how is that there is more than two genders and we should cater to the mental illness opinion working out? It's as valid as there are only 2 genders and they are not fluid. And going along with people delusions and fantasy world is bad for society. Look one just shot up a school after all. It's working out great.

Just keep whacking it Jbryd

I own a couple AR’s and mine haven’t murdered anyone yet. They are even left in the open and loaded. Every morning I get up and they’re still in their same spots and still fully loaded so I know they didn’t leave the house and commit a felony.
As far as needing one, probably don’t, but they used to be fun to shoot before ammo went scarce and got expensive. I still say the perfect weapon to teach children how to shoot.
Now they are a hogs worst nightmare. Best sounder count was a total of 5 with 7 shots taken before the rest got out of sight. Prefer the AR10 for the hogs, and the AR15 is the general truck gun for riding and targets of opportunity.
I keep one by the bed as well. Not my first choice for home invasion, I leave the room with the turkey gun and a .45 in the waistband. The wife holds the room and protects the kids with the AR. I tell her if the door opens without our code word first then just keep pulling the trigger until if locks open, then insert the next mag and keep shooting until no one’s moving.
Until someone shows up to take my AR’s I’ll keep them and probably buy a few more.

On a critical incident of this magnitude, I would suspect the state crime scene labs would get DNA back within days or less.

Amen! And pass the ammo!

Only good for one thing.

thus.
Yep, my boys and I have shot deer with ours and lots of coyotes. Works, light, compact, with low recoil. But they do not suppress very well.

There is only one source for Truth and our nation has forgotten what that is. So we will all deal with devastating consequences that will not cease until God's Truth is once again embraced.
It's not a USA thing. It's a human condition thing.
It happened in the days of the Apostle Paul, a Jew with Roman citizenry.
And our nation, forged by God-fearing men, has turned it's back on God as a citizenry.
And God didn't turn away from us.
We decided to love and pursue other truths.
Now 350 million people can have 350 million versions of truth.
Ain't it all grand.

Do we still realize that God's revealed Word for us, is never, ever wrong?
Too bad our nation no longer cares.
Some of it's people still do, but the culture has exchanged the truth of God for a lie.

Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Romans 1:24–32.

no.

no; it ISN'T.

And he'll be back

J once again you show just how clueless you truly are. Stick to your stupid football banter and leave my god given constitutional rights alone! Mental illness is a real epidemic that we as a country are battling every day. Until these people are helped in some way, these issues will continue. Since the decision decades ago to abolish mental institutions and instead “mainstream” these troubled people we have been going down a path that can never end well. I know from experience as my mothers sister is one that our family has been dealing with for the better part of 30 years. Try as we may, we could only get her into short term voluntary facilities. She, like many others, have no business out in society. She is a feeble older woman now, thankfully during her younger years her demons never brought physical harm to another person, but it was a definite possibility during that time. Until media quits putting these gunman’s name and picture out for these other troubled people to look up to, the next crazed person will continue to follow suit.

Honestly, Really? GOD given rights!

Have you ever read the Document? It says the right were granted by our creator not given by man. Darn strait they are God given rights.

Yes! GOD GIVEN RIGHTS! Do your homework! These are rights given to man before government, without government. Among those are the right to protect and defend yourself. Hence, the 2nd amendment.

I have a God given right to protect my family and myself.What do you do,,ask permission from your Queens?

Considering he's from Canadia and a royal subject, probably not.

I think the Bible was written long before the Us was even discovered, and that was never mentioned

The document states the founder knew we had right that were Given to us by God and wrote that into our founding document. Because like you astutely noticed the US was founded long after the Bible was put together. Our money still says in God we trust.

The right to self defense is not specific to the U.S...They just affirmed it.

Didnt bother to read all 10 pages of back and forth hoping somebody already posted that he was 17 when he bought the rifles didn't have a drivers license so what did he show as proof or use to drive if he did drive was both guns at the scene Was he an immigrant or resident How did anyone know right of the bat he shot grandma First news i seen was he was shot by a nearby border patrolman haven't seen that since
Is the uke/russo war still going on?

Really, "the founder knew".... and was US money printed before the Bible

https://www.wsaz.com/2022/05/26/person-detained-after-shots-fired-call/ How West Virginia does it.

It would be better if our money still said "mind your business", not that the current saying is wrong.

The document states the founder knew we had right that were Given to us by God and wrote that into our founding document. Because like you astutely noticed the US was founded long after the Bible was put together. Our money still says in God we trust.
[/quote]


Really, "the founder knew".... and was US money printed before the Bible[/quote]

Yes the founder knew God was in charge and granted our rights. Your reading comprehension could use some work. Our country was founded under God and it is still printed in God we trust on our money.

My reading comprehension is good! Who is your founder?

They all signed the rehearsal documents and desecration of independents look it up and read it slowly
Maybe have some one read them to you may be better.

really guys

Everyone supports the thought that it was not the fault of the gun that killed the teachers and all the children.

What I have not heard is what do you think is the solution to stop mass shootings?

Lol, it's fun.



And all them guys could talk to God

Wood tick you can talk to God anytime you want as well. He is alway listening.

But when does he answer?

Quite often, actually. If you'll shut up and listen.

Jbyrd...how many times could you load a single.shot in 40 minutes ???
Come on man...

i want to know who signed the "desecration" of independence,LOL.

I too would be interested in hearing what people's thoughts are on steps to rectify the mass shooting issue. Have there always been this many "mass shootings" (a mass shooting is defined as the killing of three or more people during one incident) and the media is blowing it out of proportion? Are we dealing with more mental illnesses now than ever before and this is the leading cause of mass shootings? Should society be looking at this differently and arming the adults working in schools? Politics aside, lets dig into possible solutions.

My wife and I had this discussion yesterday and I have my opinions but I'd like to hear others thoughts.

Its actually gone down.

You just hear about it more often, unless it happens to be committed by a member of a protected minority group.

Oh thats easy -- Clinton, Obama, Biden, Pelosi -- and I am sure Gates and Soros names are on there as well as many others. Even a bunch of R politicians. Oops almost forgot the Zuckster.

so the numbers are definitely getting played

just like covid everything is a mass shooting death now

the standard used to be 4 or more people dead in an event Dating back to at least 2005, the FBI and leading criminologists essentially defined a mass shooting as a single attack in a public place in which four or more victims were killed.

so the actual number fitting this definition is A LOT less than the 212 for this year already and the claimed 693 for 2021

a very liberal source Mother Jones news has been tracking these since 1982
they had 6 events fitting this definition in 2021 other media had 693
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/12/mass-shootings-mother-jones-full-data/

just like you can create 250K green jobs with the change of a definition you can make 27 school shootings in 5 months by including every gang related shooting within a mile of a school.



well if it were up to me and you said Pete we need to secure the school , well perimeter security would be my first step a fence between the parking lot and the school to restrict access , it appears in this most recent event the school resource officer was first contact but was injured in an exchange with the shooter. then the shooter was able to enter the school and go about the evil deeds.

we have learned time on time force response , fast saves lives
barriers buy time for force to arrive
you have to remember that the shooter is basically an inside job they get to look at your defenses every day they can see the weakness
so you can do an exceptional job of hiding them , probably not going to happen or be ready with absolutely overwhelming force fast.
a camera system tied into dispatch so that the dispatch team can be calling current location over the radio so that they can see with out being there.
training in small squad tactics 2-6 man teams so than any 2 people who can respond can work as a team
other barriers to slow down entry
a school staff radio system with the ability for dispatch to listen to it every staff member has a radio on them all the time.


improve the communication
build the plans
place the barriers
have the staff
meet force with force fast.

because you are never going to not have evil people

there are violent attacks on students in places without guns , there are knife attacks ,

even if you could take all the guns away there would be some other type of attack , right now you hear the attack happening there is zero question what it is

there won't not be attacks they will just look different

i just want to know how a 18year old can buy 2 ars and that much ammo? what 2500or so?where did he get the money?

$2500 bucks is not a lot of money nowadays,even for a teenager.

my 17 year old makes 15 and hour at their part time job

my 18 year old has a credit card and 20+ more offers.

kids and young adults have money , they have bank cards these days and they buy what they want.

frankly it is less than a cheap car these days and lots of kids have 5K dollar or more cars at 18

Boco and I agree on something , 2500 seems like big money but when you don't have a 3-400 dollar grocery bill each week and a mortgage and family it isn't that much money

It's called a job.

Some folks still work.

I like your response, Pete. Thanks for putting out some possible solutions.

As with anything, I think the ticket is prevention....not only reaction. Of course, like you said Pete, no matter what we do there will always be evil and attacks happening in some capacity. I think the issue is much deeper, however, than just simply tightening down on security at schools. It may be a band aid but there's something more going on. What happened to the "good old days" decades ago when a school shooting was unheard of? When kids could leave guns in the back of their truck to go hunting after school, yet school shootings were not a thing back then. What was different? Do we really have that many more "nuts" in this world now? Obviously it's a combination of many things.

To be honest, my wife and I are both elementary teachers at a public school. We have differing opinions on what sort of solutions may work. But again, I'd rather be preventative than reactive in a school shooting situation. If a deranged human has thoughts of going into a school and shooting the place up, they're much more likely to think twice about it if they know that there are a number or armed teachers or adults in the school. Say 50% of school employees are required to be trained and armed with a firearm. The intruder would have no idea what employees are or aren't carrying, therefore they would have a 50/50 chance or walking into the wrong room and be met by a firearm pointing back at them. Sure, having squad teams and law enforcement show up in a timely manner would make a difference but let's be honest, they're coming in blind with very little knowledge of the situation while many innocent people are sitting ducks in the school. An interesting angle that ours and many schools across the country are taking is "ALICE Training." It's a different approach to confronting school shooting where all involved take an active role in preventing the shooter from doing more damage. Kids are taught to throw things at the intruder, teachers take their kids out of the building or keep them hidden depending on the situation, basically, each situation calls for different actions and it's the responsibility of the teachers to decide what needs to be done. Here's a link to their site:https://www.alicetraining.com/

I know from a parent and teacher's standpoint.....I would rather be armed and waiting at the door for when that scumbag comes in than huddled in a corner shielding my kids with a few desks and chairs.

There was a story early that he worked for Wendy's

Armed teachers, administrators, and school officers! I wonder if his grandmother wished she was armed as she looked down the barrel of her grandsons weapon!

I have no idea, I'm just pointing out that guns don't point and pull triggers by themselves. What do you suggest?

I am sure somewhere in this 18 yo shooter life the signs of mental illness was observed. Having the resources and will to deal with by professionals is where the change needs to happen!

Outlawing guns is the wrong place to focus on solving a mental illness problem. Too many evil influences for our youth to self deal with.

PARENTS, specifically fathers

Armed dads policing the grounds daily and policing their own.

Don't have a dad, one will be assigned to you.

BTW, there was no dad in the shooter's life.

I heard a report last night that there was an unlocked teacher entrance door is where the shooter gained access.

When I was a student, many moons ago, I used to THINK school was like prison! Now it really needs to be.

What about all the mentally deranged dads?Some kill their own kids.
You still have to vet them.

Invite them to the armed Dad meeting. Some problems solve themselves.

I whole-heartedly agree with more mental illness resources. The problem is that funding for these resources, at least at the public education level, just isn't there. If kids are not getting their needs met at home, then where are they being met? If schools don't have the resources available for kids, their needs simply don't get met. What's more important, to teach a kid how to read or to teach a kid how to properly function with abusive or missing parents? I can tell you that in any given year, I can pick out 20% of the kids in my class that likely have some sort of "baggage" coming with them, whether that be a broken home, neglect, or some sort of traumatic experience. Without the proper resources, how do we decide who has "earned" time with a school social worker? How much time should public school dedicate toward social/emotional learning when there's mandated state and national academic tests that kids need to prepare for? We certainly don't have enough social workers and school resources to deal with everything that these kids need. One program that has helped many educational institutions decide the severity of a child's needs is this: https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/index.html

The above site is an interesting read and makes a lot of sense when one thinks about why kids operate, or don't operate the way they do these days. It's unfortunate but I think we certainly have a cultural/society issue here that can be traced back to a lot of issues that begin basically at birth for these kids. The higher one's "ACE's" score is, the worse the outcome will be for many of these kids.

Not only are we not treating mental illness, or institutionalizing those beyond help, we are NORMALIZING it.

Here's a few shining stars of our current administration.

Top mil brass!!!



And our Dept of Energy Nuclesr Waste Czar!
Standing in below pic.

Dave p nailed it.

You TOTALLY have to question a society where they give value to SICK individuals like the military in the picture above. God help us if we ever have to defend our country with men with purses!!!

I took a training a few years ago it was largely going through basically every major mass killing event in the last 100 years it isn't as new as the media would have you belive it has basically grown steady with the nations population.
look up the Bath School Massecre 1927.
a review of what worked , what didn't how did the killer get to where they were

one of the very first reality in this training is you can not spot these people on a list , I know many think they can but for every 1 actor there are more than a thousand who show all the signs and don't act.

Civilian Response to Active shooter event was the training.

a take away was that while we can't predict who will and won't act . They all seem to share an Entitlement that the World / someone / some group owes them something. Revenge , recognition , acceptance, justice , payback , respect. But an overwhelming belief that they have been wronged and hurting others will set it straight.

that is the thing you are looking for even only a small percent of those people end up acting but that is the dangerous behavior to be looking for.

similar to the Run, Hide , Fight FBI training the Citizen response to active shooter event training worked better to explain and understand the what and why your not just running , or just hiding or just fighting.

C.R.A.S.E teaches Avoid , Deny , Defend. words have meaning

here is a bit from some of my notes back then.

Run / Avoid - run may mean run it may mean crawl , this is where Avoid focuses on Avoid the shooter , go away from the shooter when possible , make exit, exit may not be the closest exit , avoid being seen , avoid being heard a shooter can not engage a victim/target he/she can not detect. Human nature makes us want to go out the same way we came into a building or space look for other exits quickly assess your options chances are everyone will want to go out the way they came in and you may be able to avoid that traffic and make egress faster.

Hide / Deny - Deny access , lock doors , create barriers , deny the shooter a target there is still an Avoid element to Deny avoid being heard or seen. Hide may mean hide in plain sight playing dead if you are already injured this may be the best option deny them the kill wait for medical help

Fight / Defend - when you aren’t able to avoid the shooter or hide from the shooter defend your location , fight the shooter.
Use anything you can , you may use fire extinguishers to impair sight or breathing as well as a club. Improvised weapons such as a shovel, hammer , broom handle , scissors anything that acts as a force multiplier. You may also tackle, work as a team if you can I am going to tackle him you are going to push the gun down away (avoid the muzzle).Choosing to fight is a personal choice not all will be able or equipped to fight.

the participants were a mix of law enforcement , citizens , and people involved in government but not in a sworn LE capacity.

I don't think hardly anyone in that room left without the intent to carry a gun ever were they could could legally.

of course they can't say to much of what they would do but one of the officers giving the training when asked by the class she said well I can't tell you what to do but I used to leave my side arm home when I went out to events like school concerts and such , she said the training and seeing what worked she almost never leaves it at home now.

now I know a bunch of teachers very few of them would take the training to become proficient and be a real asset in such an event but I darn sure think it should be up to them as something they choose

I know the media wants you to think it is all schools here is the breakdown from a few years ago

48% happen at businesses
25% schools & places of worship
14% outside
13% government buildings
didn't have the schools alone the data was compiled school and place of worship

the good news is in around 70% of the locations most of you can legally carry. although shooters frequently target places that prohibit carry as we saw the Grocery store shooter did last week you should also avoid those places.

Other than a courthouse where I have to pass through a metal detector, does anyone adhere to the actual rule of no guns allowed? I know I don’t. No one will ever know I’m carrying unless I have to use it. If that happens, I’ll take my chances on being charged or asked to leave.

I tried entering a grocery store while carrying and an alarm went off when I crossed the threshold. I did an about face and left. It may have been unrelated but I wasn't going to start a ruckus.

In Kansas to have a legal no firearms signage you need armed security at every entrance. Without that the sign has no power of law.

In Indiana all they can do is ask you to leave. If you don't you can be charged with trespassing. I try to avoid doing business with places with signs. When I have to go in I ignore them. Hired flunkies running metal detectors are easily walked through with knife and gun at events. If I can do it so can criminals.

See something, say something. Listen to the kids when they tell you they have an oddball in their midst. That would be a great place to start.

after 9-11 we didn't ban airplanes, we banned access to the cockpits.

The problem is that YOUR OPINION is calling for my constitutional rights to be infringed upon. You can think AR's are junk, or not worth the money, or unnecessary. That is your right... But once you decide that others rights should be taken away, we have issues.

Broad shoulders indeed... And a narrow mind to match.

Mike

Guns are not the problem.We have let society deteriorate and are reaping the rewards.Communist agenda working as planned.

Only a fool would think that the Second Amendment to our Constitution was intended for hunting.

My wife has a co-worker on her facebook account that is anti-gun. She sent an e-mail to our state senator yesterday voicing her opinion. Here's the reply she got back.



I didn't realize how much I liked him before when I voted for him but I may vote for him a couple times this go around.

wished we had a senator like that-- gives me hope for other states -- this one is sadly lost.

Thanks for sharing great news. We need more like him. How bad did her friend flip out when she got the reply?

I'll be the odd man out.
This "mental illness" mentioned all the time is ridiculous.
Other then a very few incidents, "mental illness" is a made up phrase by liberals.
You wanna see your kid succeed, give him/her chores (and not just a 5 minute a day one"
Get that phone away from them.
Keep them physically fit. It's absolutely befuddeling to ,e why parents let their kids get fat.
No, your kid isn't "big boned", hes/she's lazy n fat!

Teach your kids respect when young and do the same to them.

Alot of this crap would disappear if parents (parent) would adhere to these simple terms.

I had chores after school.
Very few fat kids.
If I screwed up, I got my (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) paddled.

Brought guns to school most everyday once I had a driver's license. So did many friends.
Dispute were handled "out back".

Every single time I see a "shooter" in the news, I think, what a freaking Dweeb /Nerd.

Don't let your kid become that.

And teach them not to be a G.T.S "government tit sucker "
If they cant work, no hunting/fishing.

On the mental illness thing, well everyone can probably be diagnosed with some sort of mental disorder of one type or another. Usually these kinds of acts, and suicide is pretty much the same, is that they almost all suffer from despair. The complete loss of hope. This last desperate act is done to what they believe will at long last give them what they think gave their life meaning. A lot of the wierdness we see with in some of the young adult generation we see now is a result of people feeling that that their life some sense of meaning.

And?
My last post kinda describes how to negate that no?

just clarifying to say "mental illness" isnt just somebody bouncing off the walls wearing a straight jacket.

Certain actors in society are actively trying to create a populace that doesnt have a purpose meaning to their lives other than to be a cog in the wheel.

About like you'd expect. You know how they react.

I would tend to agree the the term mental illness doesn't quite fit most of these animals, but it seems to be the polite label to use.

Mentally ill would suggest an otherwise healthy individual suffering a temporary or non debilitating disease of the mind.

I would argue that many of these mutts were never healthy in the first place or were so neglected and malformed during their early formative years that they are more akin to a feral animal than a member of a civilized society.

Thanks, ADC!

So mental illness isnt a real thing? I say it is real and not temporary. People suffering from it need removed from the free world and hospitalized. For their safety as well as ours.

P.S. No way would I ever vote for a politician championing the 2nd while wanting to dismantle the first. If you want your kid forced to pray in school put him in private school. Government needs to stay out of religion.

I agree wholeheartedly. Who is trying to make prayer in public education mandatory?

P.S. I have a brother who is a diagnosed paranoid/schizophrenic. I've witnessed it up close and personal for decades. I don't believe it to be mental illness, I believe it's demonic in origin.

Just google the AR and who and what it was designed for ? That's where the argument looses traction. Heck a hatchet can kill but none of the mass killings in the US where done with one.

I am not an AR fan but I think you are nuts

I own an AR. AR and all other gun owners are traumatized twice every time one these shootings occur. First by the incident itself followed by the howls of anti-gunners. Do something, even if it's wrong. Pure, ineffective, dangerous emotion.

Mental illness is just a term that was created to try to remove the stigma of crazy, insane, deranged or evil people. Changing the name did nothing to minimize the condition.

Why not just "Red flag" them?

See where this can be used as an argument for that law?

13 pages and counting. I have always enjoyed the Tman'ing comments from the likes of "us."
This forum isn't a monolithic (one) voice but rather mirrors our society which has many voices (opinions).

There was a time, not that long ago, but still beyond our grandparents era, when their where very few atheists in this country.
Was everyone a believer? Probably not.
Was everyone Christian? Mostly yes because our country was settled and forged and fought for by Christians.
Was everyone righteous? Ah, no. That's not possible this side of glorification.

BUT, our nation did identify as a Godly nation, and whether the fear (obey) of the Lord, or just knowing your own personal thoughts and opinions were subservient to God's Plan, there was a national knowledge that we as people ARE NOT king of this hill.

But things all began to change quite remarkably in the mid 1800's.
Whoever your descendants were then had MANY new ideas cast at them, and then like now, they would of had to choose which road to walk.
Those changes were monumental of the world stage and they have effected this nation, as it has all the nations around the globe.
Darwinism in the 19th century, along with Marxism built upon it (Darwinism without religion as a hindrance to utopian ideals - paradise on earth as it is in heaven),
along with 2 WW's that decimated world's faith in just about anything, built upon the Aryan's belief that THEY were the superior race according to Darwin's thesis.

Human progressivism is a VERY interesting study.
It is well documented that the plan now is aimed at trans-humanism and artificial intelligence as a means to solve the human condition which is.... sin.
Our great-great grandparents lived, historians tell us, in a Christian culture, so they would have known full well what sin was and they would have full well known that God was creator of all and so their actions were subject to the judgment of God.
Today, we are a post-Christian culture according to those who study such things. There isn't even debate about it anymore.
We have arrived.
We are a country who no longer answers to and identifies with a Holy God. Which matters very much.
Because where we find identity is who we are.
So our land is searching and grasping for every straw so that our people have the identity they seek.
And the human heart ALWAYS seeks identity. It's crafted that way by God.

So some, who are empty vessels seeking living water, get another tattoo to show their identity.
Some, who are in that same boat, with no divine power to seek hope in, do whatever they want, wherever they want, whenever they want.
And some, sadly, seeking one last bit of identity, shoot other people.

350 million people. As those who believe in God (and know they answer to Him someday) die, and are more and more replaced by the godless,
we as a nation will more and more and more struggle to cope with all the brokenness and ruined lives that progressivism has brought us.
But, as a people, we cheer for more immorality and cheer for those who are immoral.

So what did we think was going to happen, y'all?
Garbage in. Garbage out.
It's all quite simply on display.
May God help us return to the way it was always supposed to be.
Instead of this path - which leads so many people - to the land of no-where.

Blessings,
Mark

Mark, those Christians who settled this country practiced slavery and promulgated genocide on an indigenous population.

No generation is free of transgressions.

Taking God out of everything thing is the biggest problem. Teach the Ten Commandments in school. We need Love not hate. The devil is loving this.
Some of you are against what I say, but do you have a better idea?

Steven 49er,
That isn't as accurate as your paint brush of generality.
It was also Christians who started the abolition movement and in fact one of my relatives, Buffalo Bill's father, a Godly man, was killed as an abolitionist in the early 1800's.

I would say no generation is righteous if that's what you mean.
BUT, they did know who was Righteous.
And we either say we answer to someone greater than ourselves or we say we don't.
Today, our nation, and especially our young people and their young people, who we are raising up....
say we don't answer to anyone but me, me, me and me.

Today, do what you wanna do. Do your own thang.
See the difference?

Blessings,
Mark

Mark, I heard about a study on people having a biblical world view. I think only 11%, don't quote me on this, of church goers had a biblical world view. Was amazing but sad. As for the shooter, someone should have loved him as a child.

Oh it's real.

My point is that most of these perps aren't the average Joe going through a bout of depression but instead products of homes and backgrounds that warped them beyond repair from the get.

Mark, I agree with you 100 percent. Thanks

J Staton,
I recently did, as part of my final studies, a project thesis on Christianity in Australia and New Zealand (a portion of Oceania) and you are correct.
They, like America, suffer from progressivism being elevated ABOVE the faith.
When that happens...
God
Spouse
Children
Community
Greater world community
Which is the biblical order of things, gets turned upside down and sideways.

All things become a human endeavor, and a human project, and prayer is thrown out, and God is cast aside for "rights" and "firepower" and who knows what so that...

The Christian believer looks and acts just like the unbeliever.
And that is a real dilemma.

Bottom line, is most of us are fine people, it's just we weren't taught well by our folks, who were not taught well by their folks who were not taught well by their folks
BECAUSE progressivism built on the backs of Enlightenment which was built on the back of the Renaissance has now been going on for hundreds of years.
And ALL OF IT is forging nations, and cultures, and the people in those cultures.

Ya know, it's always been there though. Revelation. For us.
Creation. Christ's 1st Coming. Scripture.
We either believe in it or we don't.
No one signing anyone up.
The Truth stands and always will until Jesus returns to claim what is His.

We pray for a healing in this land, and on this earth, and do the best we can, where we are, with what we have.
Blessings,
Mark

Can a person endorse slavery and know who is righteous? Serious question, I don't see any room in the New Testament for it. Maybe I'm wrong.

Genocide?

You are correct, no generation is righteous.

I don't pretend to know the answer to what is ailing our country. In my mind, it's most likely relative peace and prosperity over too long of a period.

Anyhow, our thoughts and prayers go out to this Texas community.

Posco, why dont you get together with your preacher, or someone who routinely does exorcisms, and pray away his mental illness? Unless of course you think your god wants some people to be possessed or you think the demons are stronger than your god?

Posco, the quote Yukon John posted has a politician complaining about taking religion out of school.

Steven, In the 14-15-16-17-1800's, most, not all Christian church's taught that dark skin was the mark of Ham (son of Noah) and were marked so that white Christians would know they are supposed to be enslaved.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham

The apostles were the last I know of to cast out demons. As for my God...

Go see a Pentecostal preacher or a Catholic priest. They can at least put you in touch with an authority on the subject.

Grade school kids trapped in a classroom? Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel. Whether it's an AR. 22. Shotgun high powered air rifle or machete or hammer. just shut up

The real thing that matters is the mass killer has been identified as MS13 gang member

Having grown up amongst crooked officials, this sounds more and more like a cartel hit.

Link?

thealphawarriorshow.tv is one site telling it

I cant find anything saying the murderer was a gangster

Go to fox news . He wasn't a gang member. Had 60 mags with him .Fired over 400 rounds in a total of 17 minutes of shooting. ACCORDING to DPS news conference on now..

They are wrong about not being a gang member. He is now or was MS13

I have a hard time believing that some kid who had a speech impediment and a lisp, and who was ridiculed for his clothing and "gay" mannerisms, was ever associated with MS13. Something tells me that MS 13 members are not likely to identify as the opposite gender or halfway between

I want to see confirmation of gang membership.

It would be a possible explanation of how he funded the crime. But that would raise another ugly question. Why?

Under normal circumstances if this horrific act was done under the direction of an organization that organization could expect immediate reprisal.

So it still doesn't pass the smell test that he was gang related.

DPS director was asked that question he said no known gang affiliation. BUT did say he was into on line video gaming. I have said for years that is the root of most school shooters. In fact all have been big into that .

Grannies debit card . That's how he bought it or so reported.

School shooters don't think like normal people. The one that shot up my college did it to get out of paying his tuition

That would explain the beef with granny. I've seen reporting saying that the day of it all started over an argument over his phone bill that granny was on the hook for.

Kid was probably never told no in his life and when it all came to a head, well it all blew up.

I agree. While mental illness is an issue for some, it seems to be a word thrown around all too much lately . Mental illness has been around forever in towns and cities, but years ago you didn't hear of the magnitude of acting out in such massive scale back then. It has even been popular to use as an excuse for criminals, to have lighter sentences .

I like to think, why don't these shooters , if they are truly not in their right mind, go instead to the local gun range and face down a line of shot gunners in their trap or skeet events ? You never hear of that. They aren't that crazy .....

X2

Inflammatory and fake stories are not helpful. Ever.

I have heard that it's common for Mexican drug dealers to send their families to the U.S. to hide them from danger, and that danger sometimes follows them to the U.S.

Just pondering. I know when I was eighteen there were dirty cops, dirty prosecuting attorneys, and some say governors who later became president. Propped open doors, officers delayed, and in a boarder town. No way corruption would be possible.

x2^

Mike Tyson has a lisp(not implying tyson is a gang member)
Any gang members I have seen on tv,and the ones I have met in Toronto dont know how to speak properly.
I dont know if the shooter was a gang member or not but I dont think his appearance or speech deficiencys would preclude him being a gang member.

That's true it would not preclude him being a gang member. My point was that MS13 gang members would have eaten this kid alive before allowing him in the gang.

Remember Lord of the Flies ?

What are you talking about?

I am talking about there being a possibility of a cartel hit. Was explaining if there was corruption in central Arkansas in the 80's over drugs there may be the possibility that it occurs in a boarder town in south Texas at the present time.
The perp gained entry through a propped open door and the police didn't attempt to enter the room for about an hour. May just all be a horrible coincidence but it does seem somewhat fishy.

There's always room for stooges. You dont send your best people on suicide runs. You send out the disposable people for the suicide runs.

I see.

Wild theories don't help.

I don’t know crap without verifiable facts. Without more than a single source neither does anyone else. I don’t plan on breaking the law but if I did there’s a lot of people here I wouldn’t want on the jury.

All theories should be exhausted. Remember the same media pushed a POTUS as a Russian spy for four years.

You should practice criminal law.

True, you would think you want dead ends or cut outs if you do something like is being suggested. Can we say Jack Ruby?

But in the absence of evidence its all just speculation and probably a red herring. Absence of evidence is not evidence.

Great plan. Let's theorize ourselves into more gun control legislation.

I can see it now: MAYBE THE CARTELS LEGALLY BOUGHT THE GUNS AND SHOT UP A SCHOOL--ASSAULT WEAPON BAN

Crazy "theories" are actually evidence that this country is being destroyed by social media. Not picking on you J Staton, but I miss the days when more men in this country were measured, reasonable and used common sense. Now we have a bunch of hysterical Karens that latch onto anything they read/watch on the internet.

Seems to me that Occam's Razor exists for a valid reason

Dang near every single boy his age are, nearly every single one of them. That means there is a heck of a lot of them that it doesn't turn into school shooters.

Is there video of the perp entering the school? Did he go directly to the propped open door or did he try several before finding it?

If you want to know the real root of it, all the school shooters from W.Kentucky, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Colorado were into satan worship..

I would wager all the others were also...Now you will never hear the media, or people in general acknowledge that
because everyone is scared to talk about "hope you guessed my name"

I'm not afraid, satan is a p***y.