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Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced

Posted By: Finster

Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 05:32 PM

Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced: No ‘Assault Weapons’ Ban, No Raised Minimum Rifle Age

A bipartisan group of senators announced a deal on gun control legislation Sunday in the wake of recent mass shootings — though the compromise excludes President Joe Biden’s “assault weapons” ban and a raised minimum age for rifle purchases.

The deal includes Republican priorities such as expanded mental health services and school safety. It nods to Democratic priorities by adding expanded background checks for those under the age of 21, who will now have juvenile records screened before gun purchases.

A press released from the bipartisan group outlines the contours of the proposed legislation (original emphasis) :

BIPARTISAN GROUP OF SENATORS ANNOUNCE AGREEMENT

WASHINGTON–U.S. Senators Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), John Cornyn (R-Texas), Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.), Roy Blunt (R-Mo.), Cory Booker (D- N.J.), Richard Burr (R-N.C.), Bill Cassidy (R-La.), Susan Collins (R-Maine), Chris Coons (D-Del.), Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), Martin Heinrich (D-N.M.), Mark Kelly (D-Ariz.), Angus King (I-Maine), Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), Rob Portman (R-Ohio), Mitt Romney (R-Utah), Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.), and Pat Toomey (R-Pa.) issued the following statement:

“Today, we are announcing a commonsense, bipartisan proposal to protect America’s children, keep our schools safe, and reduce the threat of violence across our country. Families are scared, and it is our duty to come together and get something done that will help restore their sense of safety and security in their communities. Our plan increases needed mental health resources, improves school safety and support for students, and helps ensure dangerous criminals and those who are adjudicated as mentally ill can’t purchase weapons. Most importantly, our plan saves lives while also protecting the constitutional rights of law-abiding Americans. We look forward to earning broad, bipartisan support and passing our commonsense proposal into law.”The proposal includes:Support for State Crisis

Intervention Orders
● Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.

Investment in Children and Family Mental Health Services
● National expansion of community behavioral health center model; major investments to increase access to mental health and suicide prevention programs; and other support services available in the community, including crisis and trauma intervention and recovery.

Protections for Victims of Domestic Violence
● Convicted domestic violence abusers and individuals subject to domestic violence restraining orders are included in NICS, including those who have or have had a continuing relationship of a romantic or intimate nature.

Funding for School-Based Mental Health and Supportive Services
● Invests in programs to expand mental health and supportive services in schools, including: early identification and intervention programs and school based mental health and wrap-around services.

Funding for School Safety Resources
● Invests in programs to help institute safety measures in and around primary and secondary schools, support school violence prevention efforts and provide training to school personnel and students.

Clarification of Definition of Federally Licensed Firearms Dealer
● Cracks down on criminals who illegally evade licensing requirements.

Telehealth Investments
● Invests in programs that increase access to mental and behavioral health services for youth and families in crisis via telehealth.
Under 21 Enhanced Review Process
● For buyers under 21 years of age, requires an investigative period to review juvenile and mental health records, including checks with state databases and local law enforcement.

Penalties for Straw Purchasing
● Cracks down on criminals who illegally straw purchase and traffic guns.

It is unclear whether the proposal can pass the 60-vote threshold required to defeat a legislative filibuster in the Senate — or whether the “progressive”-led Democratic caucus in the House would pass what they would see as a watered-down bill.

SOURCE
Posted By: CTRAPS

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 08:57 PM

I'm thinking this type of bill isn't restrictive enough for the squad, Sanders or Warren types. They won't be satisfied in anything less than total elimination of all firearms.
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 09:13 PM

Did I miss the point of armed teachers and or guards in the schools ?
Our government caused this mess , put the armed guards in schools !
Posted By: Marty

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 09:29 PM

red flag law?
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 09:43 PM

They can go suck an egg.
Posted By: cotton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
They can go suck an egg.

And pound sand
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:21 PM

How do you make a "red flag law" with out calling it a red flag law?
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Diggerman
How do you make a "red flag law" with out calling it a red flag law?


You call it this

Intervention Orders
● Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by Diggerman
How do you make a "red flag law" with out calling it a red flag law?


You call it this then remove the court needed part ot make the job filled by anti gun democrats

Intervention Orders
● Provides resources to states and tribes to create and administer laws that help ensure deadly weapons are kept out of the hands of individuals whom a court has determined to be a significant danger to themselves or others, consistent with state and federal due process and constitutional protections.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:31 PM

I say go pee up a rope
Posted By: yotetrapper30

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:36 PM

When I see Republicans like Susan Collins and Mitt Romney supporting something my Spidey sense starts tingling.
Posted By: Posco

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
When I see Republicans like Susan Collins and Mitt Romney supporting something my Spidey sense starts tingling.

With good cause.
Posted By: waggler

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:45 PM

I really don't see much of a problem with this legislation; unless I'm missing something.

It seems to mostly be mental health related in it's focus which is something that is really needed.
I'm also happy to see that a person's juvenile record will follow them into adulthood; duh.
Posted By: Posco

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:47 PM

It was the Commitee of Public Safety in France that sent most of those people to the guitine and our American leftists model themselves after those Jacobins. Moderate Republicans help them along their way.
Posted By: H2ORat

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by waggler
I really don't see much of a problem with this legislation; unless I'm missing something.

It seems to mostly be mental health related in it's focus which is something that is really needed.
I'm also happy to see that a person's juvenile record will follow them into adulthood; duh.

You are -- noone has read the fine print yet (even our elected officials) == those 2 points you brought up I will agree with -- the rest is crap. Typical of our governments attempts to deal with the real issues (which they will not touch).
Posted By: CTRAPS

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
When I see Republicans like Susan Collins and Mitt Romney supporting something my Spidey sense starts tingling.


That's for certain.

I'll bet Corey Booker had another Spartacus moment. And, Lindsey Grahamnesty.....who knows???
Posted By: charles

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:02 PM

Think this Bill is a lifeline for our 2A, as long as it doesn't become death by 1000 cuts. It has no negative consequences for me or my family, as it stands.

Both NC Republican Senators supported it. That was a shock to see. Richard Burr is not running at the end of his term so he doesn't have to walk the line.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by charles
Think this Bill is a lifeline for our 2A, as long as it doesn't become death by 1000 cuts. It has no negative consequences for me or my family, as it stands.

Both NC Republican Senators supported it. That was a shock to see. Richard Burr is not running at the end of his term so he doesn't have to walk the line.



And you have no idea of the details yet. Amazing..

. The details is where it will get you and the mission creap that will soon follow that goes way beyond the scope of what is allowed.
Posted By: Bob

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:34 PM

As it reads on this post I don’t see anything I disagree with here. Money for teacher training (maybe that could mean firearms training), money for schools to beef up security (maybe that means hiring armed guards), money to address mental health, which is always good, keeps violent domestic abusers from buying guns, which is good, checks a person’s juvenile record before selling them a gun, good.

All this checks out. The 2nd amendment still intact and addresses the problem. Let’s see what other crap they try to shove in it, but as it reads here, it’s all good stuff.
Posted By: H2ORat

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by charles
Think this Bill is a lifeline for our 2A, as long as it doesn't become death by 1000 cuts. It has no negative consequences for me or my family, as it stands.

Both NC Republican Senators supported it. That was a shock to see. Richard Burr is not running at the end of his term so he doesn't have to walk the line.

It doesn't for me and my family either -- You need to vote out both of your "republican" senators -- R and D are just letters they don't mean much in politics. I already have to use an ffl to sell my gun to a friend in this state. I already have a waiting period on handguns. I also have to be 21 to buy handguns or handgun ammo (that really pissd me off when I was 18 and trying to buy .22 mag ammo). Sorry Charley this is the beginning - not the end of taking every gun related item you own. At times like these - you need to ask yourself - What did the anti-gunners give up in this?????
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:44 PM

Background checks are worse than stupid. They inconvenience honest people and have never stopped a crime. Keep dangerous people locked up. That does decrease violence.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:48 PM

The government is so out of control I wouldn’t trust them to toast bread.
Posted By: charles

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/12/22 11:56 PM

Like the song says, you got to know when to hold um, know when to fold um. It is not a bad hand to have. Reread what Bob said.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by charles
Like the song says, know when to hold um, know when to fold um. It is not a bad hand to have. Reread what Bob said.


And this is how we got to where we are at today. Perfect example.
Posted By: H2ORat

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by charles
Like the song says, know when to hold um, know when to fold um. It is not a bad hand to have. Reread what Bob said.

So Charles --- what are our options -- start shooting? What is your opinion on what we are supposed to do and how this plays out?
Posted By: charles

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:19 AM

NO. Two wrongs do not make a right, but we can't turn the other cheek either. We need better judges for a start. We are giving them better laws to enforce.

If you own a gunshop, do you sell to someone you know shouldn't be walking out the door with a gun? You might. Times are hard and that kid is going across the street to your competition. If you can both say NO, aren't you at least making it more difficult for a juvenile to kill his parents, his neighbors, or his classmates?

Would you prefer to just have no more gunshops? Not me.








Just a question to our members. Who among us needs a gun that they can't get in a few days? I doubt these proposed laws will have any impact on Trapperman members at all.
Posted By: J Staton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bob
As it reads on this post I don’t see anything I disagree with here. Money for teacher training (maybe that could mean firearms training), money for schools to beef up security (maybe that means hiring armed guards), money to address mental health, which is always good, keeps violent domestic abusers from buying guns, which is good, checks a person’s juvenile record before selling them a gun, good.

All this checks out. The 2nd amendment still intact and addresses the problem. Let’s see what other crap they try to shove in it, but as it reads here, it’s all good stuff.

I wonder if a common mental ailment like anxiety will qualify for disarming? How about a veteran dealing with aftermath of war? Maybe someone depressed over losing someone close to them? Wonder if anyone were to seek treatment for things such as these will be red flagged? Anti 2A judges could have a hayday.
Posted By: Bass1

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:20 AM

I read the original post, didn't see anything about banning guns or mag capacities or age limit as to who can purchase a gun (of any type). Obviously, the problem is a social problem, not a gun problem. Reading this it would seem to indicate that that is what they may finally be recognizing this. I am a gun owner in NY state, and I feel the state is a bigger threat to the 2nd amendment than the Federal government right now. My 2 cents.
Posted By: yotetrapper30

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by charles


Just a question to our members. Who among us needs a gun that they can't get in a few days? I doubt these proposed laws will have any impact on Trapperman members at all.


Right now? No... but I might. What if I was in a relationship and the man threatened to kill me... waiting a week to get a gun could mean the difference between me living and dying. What if I lived in a city like Minneapolis a few years ago and on the first night of the riots I huddled in my home scared to death because I had no way to defend myself? I'd sure want to go and buy a shotgun and some buckshot as soon as the gun shop opened the next day.
Posted By: trapdog1

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by charles
Like the song says, you got to know when to hold um, know when to fold um. It is not a bad hand to have. Reread what Bob said.

Do you know what exactly is in the bill? I'm betting when the details are known, it is a very bad hand indeed.
Posted By: yotetrapper30

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:01 AM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Leftlane

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:09 AM

Give them better laws to enforce?

LMBFBO, care to look up the lack of enforcement of existing laws? Naw, I didn't think so...
Posted By: CTRAPS

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:21 AM

This proposed deal might not affect some of us commoners, but that doesn't really matter for now.

Just wait until the House of Representatives start to roll out their version of a "gun deal". I'll go out on a limb and say the Senate and House version won't look a like.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:23 AM

The problem is that while WE have a pretty decent understanding of what being mentally ill encompasses... THEIR definition and criteria will be nowhere near that.

If you're opposed to any of the garbage they're trying to convince you is normal or mainstream, you can bet it will be used against you.

Have fun with that.

Mike
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:29 AM

The ONLY thing new gun control does is make the communists whine for more of it. Encourage’s them in fact. Does nothing to appease them. I want back all the freedom I had when I was born. I get that I will work on getting back all the freedoms my great something grandad had when England surrendered to the Continental Army.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:30 AM

Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
The problem is that while WE have a pretty decent understanding of what being mentally ill encompasses... THEIR definition and criteria will be nowhere near that.

If you're opposed to any of the garbage they're trying to convince you is normal or mainstream, you can bet it will be used against you.

Have fun with that.

Mike

To them a man can be a woman and thats OK. But if you think you can't trust the government no guns for you. Your crazy.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
The problem is that while WE have a pretty decent understanding of what being mentally ill encompasses... THEIR definition and criteria will be nowhere near that.

If you're opposed to any of the garbage they're trying to convince you is normal or mainstream, you can bet it will be used against you.

Have fun with that.

Mike

To them a man can be a woman and thats OK. But if you think you can't trust the government no guns for you. Your crazy.


Exactly.

Mike
Posted By: Diggerman

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Diggerman
How do you make a "red flag law" with out calling it a red flag law?
Posted By: yotetrapper30

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:46 AM

Even the democrats are calling it a red flag law. But half the people on here seem to be all for it!
Posted By: Marty

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:07 AM

The ministry of truth will use red flag laws to disarm/imprison all resistance leaders..
Posted By: Posco

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Marty
The ministry of truth will use red flag laws to disarm/imprison all resistance leaders..

Shoot them.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Even the democrats are calling it a red flag law. But half the people on here seem to be all for it!


Because some people are still under the delusion that the guys who claim to be on our side are actually on our side.

It's pretty apparent at least 10 of them aren't... Or those 10 are stupid enough to believe this legislation won't be twisted and abused.

Mike
Posted By: tlguy

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:49 AM

The article I read said the "fine print" hasn't even been written yet. These are the main ideas, and if the fine print doesn't jive, votes can and will be dropped.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:55 AM

Originally Posted by tlguy
The article I read said the "fine print" hasn't even been written yet. These are the main ideas, and if the fine print doesn't jive, votes can and will be dropped.


That is my understanding as well. But few things chill my blood more than the words "bipartisan effort."

Mike
Posted By: Bob

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by J Staton
Originally Posted by Bob
As it reads on this post I don’t see anything I disagree with here. Money for teacher training (maybe that could mean firearms training), money for schools to beef up security (maybe that means hiring armed guards), money to address mental health, which is always good, keeps violent domestic abusers from buying guns, which is good, checks a person’s juvenile record before selling them a gun, good.

All this checks out. The 2nd amendment still intact and addresses the problem. Let’s see what other crap they try to shove in it, but as it reads here, it’s all good stuff.

I wonder if a common mental ailment like anxiety will qualify for disarming? How about a veteran dealing with aftermath of war? Maybe someone depressed over losing someone close to them? Wonder if anyone were to seek treatment for things such as these will be red flagged? Anti 2A judges could have a hayday.


In the wording posted here nothing pointed to disarming people based on mental health. It says a lot about creating better access to counseling and treatment. Like I said, a lot can change before passing, but it looks to me as though it’s geared toward helping people treat their mental health problems so that they don’t end up going on a rampage, not disarming people with anxiety. Which is the exact right move. It’s a people problem, and a mental health problem, so treat people’s mental health problems. Makes perfect sense to me.
Posted By: martyd

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:27 AM

I wrote Chuck Grassley a email today and thanked him for trying to sale the American gun owner out. I told him what a disservice he was doing to the American gun owner , himself and the Republican Party. MD
Posted By: Cedar Hacker

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:36 AM

I got this from my congressman yesterday.

Upholding the Second Amendment

This week, I voted against two unconstitutional gun restriction bills. As a Texan, a father of three young girls who go to school, and a defender of Constitutional rights, this issue hits close to home.

The horror of school shootings is an unforgivable tragedy due to the evil we see in people. There is room for bipartisan solutions to increase school security, but Speaker Pelosi and House Democrats don’t want to make laws, they want to make politics.

My Republican colleagues and I offered an alternative bill this week that would fund school resource officers and mental health counselors, close gaps in school security, and strengthen active shooter preparations, with all costs being offset by unused state and local COVID funds. Unfortunately, House Democrats blocked it.

There is nothing more important than ensuring our children are safe. I know this because I take my children to school and pick them up. But in no way are the recent tragedies justification for the Left to infringe on the rights of law-abiding Americans.

I will not support legislation that results in those rights being stripped without due process. This is an emotional issue, but it is our job to step back and have a measured, adult conversation on real solutions.


Transatlantic Legislative Dialogue

Representing the Permian Basin—which accounts for 40 percent of U.S. oil production and 15 percent of our natural gas production—means bearing the torch for the largest secure supply of energy in the world. I recently returned from meaningful overseas visits to advocate for American-made energy and the security it brings with our allies in Europe and Japan.

One of my top priorities in Congress is setting a national energy policy that not only provides cheap, abundant, and ever-cleaner energy to American families but also ensures our allies can power their economies without relying on malign actors.

Unfortunately, the decades-long smear campaign from green special interest groups against the fossil fuel industry has led pandering politicians to craft some of the most harmful policies in U.S. history. Instead of unleashing American energy dominance, domestic producers are hamstrung with harmful regulations that discourage industry investment and raise the price of energy for working families.

President Biden says we are in an incredible “energy transition,” but the truth is we are in an energy expansion. World demand for energy is projected to increase by 47% by 2050 over 2020 demand. The United States—not Russia, Iran, or China— must position itself to fill this demand. The Permian Basin can help fuel America and the world.

U.S. Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) must be central in our discussions with our allies around the world and more must be done to increase our production and export capacity here at home. President Biden’s Administration must approve and expedite pipeline construction, roll-back harmful regulations, and unleash American energy dominance once again.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:59 AM

Bob do you believe that mental health will not be directly tied to gun control and red flag laws? Sure you say that sounds reasonable. What could go wrong?
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 09:19 AM

Individual liberty and free markets , national self reliance, built this country and made it strong. I wont accept anything else. I am completely fed up.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 10:07 AM

John cornyn tx

Tom tillis n.c.


Roy blunt mo


Rob portman oh


Richard burr n.c.


Mitt Romney ut



Bill cassiday la


Susan collins me


Lindsey grahm s.c.


Pat toomey pa


These traitors all have an R after their name. So far I have heard no one from the party talk about booting them out either
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Individual liberty and free markets , national self reliance, built this country and made it strong. I wont accept anything else. I am completely fed up.


“You sound like you’re struggling with your mental health, perhaps we should hold your guns for you while you start thinking like a reasonable joe.”
Posted By: hippie

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 10:44 AM

Will the SCOTUS ruling that is expected this week on the 2a case they heard last November have an impact on the bills being kicked around?
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by hippie
Will the SCOTUS ruling that is expected this week on the 2a case they heard last November have an impact on the bills being kicked around?


It may have an impact on the SC but the bills will just go through the word trickery and be floated in again.
Posted By: poconobear

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 11:35 AM

Toomey will be retiring. He’s been a huge disappointment here in PA for his whole career. We certainly aren’t excited with our choices for his replacement either. Our other senator, Bob Casey, is a OBammy/Biden bobble head. He hasn’t used the bump on his shoulders yet.
Shall Not Be Infringed
Posted By: Finster

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 11:47 AM

What they should have done was pass mental health laws and excluded guns all together. This is just another inch given to the anti gunners. The Republicans that voted for this are limp wristed cowards that, more often than not, fall in line with the liberals.
Posted By: Dragger

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 11:50 AM

These 10 guys were chosen to take the heat for the rest of the traitors/rhinos/closet leftists in the republican party.

The "uni-party" members need to be purged from the "R" brand.
Posted By: w side rd 151

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:01 PM

You are right on target ! Who gets to decide what is normal .And if you do not agree with that definition are you allowed to express that opinion or are you not considered someone that is a danger to themselves of someone else And once you are declared mentally impaired it means you have the burden of proof to prove you are not impaired .Good luck with that
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 12:32 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:08 PM

Today in Ohio Constitutional carry laws goes into effect ! That means , no background check or training or license needed for concealed carry . We had a law against concealed carry since I was a kid . Made it a pain to lock up my gun after each stop on the trap line .Concealed carry license made it so I didn't have to any more . I feel that DeWine and Portman , so called republicans , are helping set up unchecked crime which will lead to total gun confiscation. .When I was a kid there were gun safety classes taught in school . No one should be able to carry a gun without at least basic training . JMHO This law allows criminals to carry without any recourse. Also the police officer has to ask if you are carrying . Where before if you had a license , they knew you were armed . Just run the plates and your license would pop up . Made it  safer for the officer. JMHO This will cause more officer shootings and more shootings .In today's world all bets are off the table .
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:08 PM

What Finster said X2
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ohio Wolverine
Today in Ohio Constitutional carry laws goes into effect ! That means , no background check or training or license needed for concealed carry . We had a law against concealed carry since I was a kid . Made it a pain to lock up my gun after each stop on the trap line .Concealed carry license made it so I didn't have to any more . I feel that DeWine and Portman , so called republicans , are helping set up unchecked crime which will lead to total gun confiscation. .When I was a kid there were gun safety classes taught in school . No one should be able to carry a gun without at least basic training . JMHO This law allows criminals to carry without any recourse. Also the police officer has to ask if you are carrying . Where before if you had a license , they knew you were armed . Just run the plates and your license would pop up . Made it  safer for the officer. JMHO This will cause more officer shootings and more shootings .In today's world all bets are off the table .



I can say that's the least constitutional argument I have ever heard. You like your infringement when you are in the in crowd.

Criminals still are not legal to carry, they did whether or not law abiding citizens had a permission slip to carry and The Hassel but keep lying to yourself that less government rules are bad.
Posted By: Squash

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:31 PM

Just more symbolism over substance that will do nothing to stop criminals committing crimes with firearms. But I digress, according to the idiot lawmakers it’s not criminals causing crimes it’s guns, aka gun violence.
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by Ohio Wolverine
Today in Ohio Constitutional carry laws goes into effect ! That means , no background check or training or license needed for concealed carry . We had a law against concealed carry since I was a kid . Made it a pain to lock up my gun after each stop on the trap line .Concealed carry license made it so I didn't have to any more . I feel that DeWine and Portman , so called republicans , are helping set up unchecked crime which will lead to total gun confiscation. .When I was a kid there were gun safety classes taught in school . No one should be able to carry a gun without at least basic training . JMHO This law allows criminals to carry without any recourse. Also the police officer has to ask if you are carrying . Where before if you had a license , they knew you were armed . Just run the plates and your license would pop up . Made it  safer for the officer. JMHO This will cause more officer shootings and more shootings .In today's world all bets are off the table .



I can say that's the least constitutional argument I have ever heard. You like your infringement when you are in the in crowd.

Criminals still are not legal to carry, they did whether or not law abiding citizens had a permission slip to carry and The Hassel but keep lying to yourself that less government rules are bad.


I'm saying it's not good for the reason many will carry without any training period .
Like to have at least, they need to have basic training .
People today are not like people when I grew up .
I know many people that should never carry .
NO BACKGROUND CHECK ?
You're right a criminal will carry any way .
I just can't help to not trust anyone in government giving us anything without something attached !
DeWine and Portman are both rinos !
I also find it strange that they pass this law at this time , when mass shootings are so common .
It just smells like a set up .
Posted By: charles

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 01:49 PM

Could be so much worse. We can still purchase about anything we want.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:11 PM

Dont get your panties in a wad Ohio Wolverine. No license in KS for awhile. Crime has gone down. Its a good thing to recognize rights instead of trying to deny them.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:15 PM

if you n ed to set a corner post in granite you have to hire a licensed contractor now to blast it for you. I helped my grandad do that when I was about 10. Bought the dynamite and caps at the hardware store. Didnt even show ID. So no I cant buy anything I might want
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:20 PM

lol
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
if you n ed to set a corner post in granite you have to hire a licensed contractor now to blast it for you. I helped my grandad do that when I was about 10. Bought the dynamite and caps at the hardware store. Didnt even show ID. So no I cant buy anything I might want

There's the difference , right there.
People taught the younger ones what to do and how to do it .
You're right we can't buy things like we used to.
Many things have changed , and it all started when government began telling us how to raise our children !
Making laws that still don't make sense today .
Every time you turn around a new law that makes no sense .
And you expect me to trust anyone in government ?
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 02:33 PM

In April 86 you could buy a new browning m2, ge min gun, m16 or any machine gun you wanted at a fair price.

Fare price= m16 close to the same price as an AR 15. Today AR 15 $1000 m16 $20,000


Ohio have you seen the videos of some of the quality qualified trainers having Accidental discharge during their class? Training is always good but should never be required.

Indiana is going to no permit required this year as well. Has no benefit for me since I have a lifetime permit and even if I had to renew every 4 years or so I would just for reciprocal ability to carry in states I travel through.
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:00 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
In April 86 you could buy a new browning m2, ge min gun, m16 or any machine gun you wanted at a fair price.

Fare price= m16 close to the same price as an AR 15. Today AR 15 $1000 m16 $20,000


Ohio have you seen the videos of some of the quality qualified trainers having Accidental discharge during their class? Training is always good but should never be required.

Indiana is going to no permit required this year as well. Has no benefit for me since I have a lifetime permit and even if I had to renew every 4 years or so I would just for reciprocal ability to carry in states I travel through.


Ohio have you seen the videos of some of the quality qualified trainers having Accidental discharge during their class? Training is always good but should never be required.
LOL Just like the government , find something that rarely happens and make it an everyday occurence .
Twist it to fit your agenda. I like not having to renew a license every 4 -5 years , just feel that everyone should be taught gun safety !

So you think it's just fine to hand a loaded gun to someone that has never handled a gun before ?
Weather loaded or not , without at least basic training they are bound to do what you say quality qualified trainers did .
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
In April 86 you could buy a new browning m2, ge min gun, m16 or any machine gun you wanted at a fair price.

Fare price= m16 close to the same price as an AR 15. Today AR 15 $1000 m16 $20,000


Ohio have you seen the videos of some of the quality qualified trainers having Accidental discharge during their class? Training is always good but should never be required.

Indiana is going to no permit required this year as well. Has no benefit for me since I have a lifetime permit and even if I had to renew every 4 years or so I would just for reciprocal ability to carry in states I travel through.



Indiana is going to no permit required this year as well. Has no benefit for me since I have a lifetime permit and even if I had to renew every 4 years or so I would just for reciprocal ability to carry in states I travel through.
I agree 100% on that .
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:12 PM

Ohio now that's not what I said. I said training is good but should not be mandatory. Mandatory means someone I don't know decided what and where I have to do to be considered trained.

I don't know them or trust their judgment. All my kids had rimfire, shotguns, center fire rifles, and handguns of their own all before they were 10. All had shot 2 deer by the time they were 7. They did not go to any formal training that was required first. Old dad taught them starting about 4. And they all Handel guns better than 90% of the gun guys at any range. I don't need or want any additional government involvement in my life.

I also don't shoot at public ranges due to not being bullet proof.

Freedom and people that tend to think they know what others should do or be required to do are not compatible. Freedom is to scary for some.
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Ohio now that's not what I said. I said training is good but should not be mandatory. Mandatory means someone I don't know decided what and where I have to do to be considered trained.

I don't know them or trust their judgment. All my kids had rimfire, shotguns, center fire rifles, and handguns of their own all before they were 10. All had shot 2 deer by the time they were 7. They did not go to any formal training that was required first. Old dad taught them starting about 4. And they all Handel guns better than 90% of the gun guys at any range. I don't need or want any additional government involvement in my life.

I also don't shoot at public ranges due to not being bullet proof.

Freedom and people that tend to think they know what others should do or be required to do are not compatible. Freedom is to scary for some.


I totally agree with what you just posted .
Just saying that what % of people teach their children to handle guns safely in todays world ?
Even some training is better than none .
As far as mandatory , some things really need to be mandatory . Especially in today's world .
Posted By: drasselt

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by Finster
What they should have done was pass mental health laws and excluded guns all together.


Yes we need to address the somehow. That said the Uvalde coward did not appear insane. Insane is out of touch with reality. He knew what he was doing "I just shot my grandma, now I'm going to shoot up the school". That is not insane that is evil.
Posted By: drasselt

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 03:43 PM

Some #'s:

As Pew reports:

A panel of mental health and law enforcement experts has estimated that roughly one-third of acts of mass violence — defined as crimes in which four or more people were killed — since the 1990s were committed by people with a serious mental illness.

A Stanford study reviewed, “35 mass shooting cases that occurred in the United States between 1982 and 2019 and involved shooters who survived and were brought to trial.” They discovered, “28 had mental illness diagnoses. Eighteen had schizophrenia and 10 had other diagnoses including bi-polar disorder, delusional disorder, personality disorders, and substance-related disorders.” 80 percent of mass shooters in this study had a mental illness, undertreated, or not treated at all.

It's not only mass shooters, but other random violent crime.

As the New York Post recently reported, a man diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia who does not take his medication regularly was arrested after brutally beating a cell phone store employee in Phoenix. Decades ago, he would have been hospitalized or institutionalized if he was a danger to himself or others. Today he is free to terrorize people.

What actions are government officials taking? For the homeless, “sweeps” or “cleanups” are the solution, shuffling the homeless out of downtown into the suburbs, as Denver officials are doing, ignoring the root problems, preferring a Band-aid covering a festering sore.

Addressing shootings, Congress’s first reaction is to ban so-called “assault rifles,” shrink magazine capacity, as well as raise the age limit for the legal purchase of firearms. They miss the irony that an 18-year-old can legally use far deadlier weapons than any civilian, as long as they are wearing a U.S. military uniform, but out of uniform, they are deemed incapable of owning a basic pistol.

At least the U.S. Senate is crafting a bill which will focus on improving mental health and substance abuse services, but who knows what any final legislation will look like? Congress had no problem sending $40 billion to Ukraine so they could purchase “weapons of war” for Ukrainians to defend themselves and their property that the same Congress wants to ban here in the U.S.

Until this becomes a national priority, creating a functional mental health care system that can identify, treat, and if necessary, hospitalize those who are mentally ill and dangerous or incapable of self-care, expect to see homelessness and mass shootings continue. It should not be that complicated, unless these are problems elected officials prefer to use as campaign issues rather than actually solve them.

Brian C. Joondeph, M.D., is a physician and writer. Follow me on Twitter @retinaldoctor. And on Truth Social @BrianJoondeph
Posted By: drasselt

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:02 PM

Then there is the whole dope thing...Isn't there already a question on the form about habitual or illegal drug use? :

June 13, 2022
When Democrats Want Gun Control, It's Not to Protect You
By Larry Kaifesh
The Founding Fathers, the most brilliant group of people to ever assemble, were adamant, clear, and direct when they established the Second Amendment: "a well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

The Founding Fathers were unwavering in protecting this God-given right, based on their genius, their experience, and the fact that they had just gained their independence through war — using arms! They used arms to defeat a tyrannical and oppressive government that was looking to infringe more on the colonists' liberties, to include their own right to bear arms. Only through the use of their arms were the colonists able to stop the cruelty and further oppression of the ruthless ruling class.

America's creation and independence could have never happened if the colonists had been disarmed. Is it any wonder why the most evil despots throughout history, such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, and Mao, took guns away from their citizens, and then, collectively, with a monopoly on violence, went on to kill tens of millions of defenseless citizens? Is it any wonder why the most evil totalitarian globalists today — Biden, Trudeau, etc. — are desperate to take guns away from the people?

Biden recently gave a despicable, disingenuous, and desperate speech designed to blame guns for the horrific school shooting in Uvalde, Texas. He said, "Children are dying because the gun lobby is profiting." It's as disgusting as it is untrue. It's deliberately deceitful. The corrupt globalist corporate media outlets, such as The New York Times, in collusion with this administration, said the same thing within hours of the shooting.

Why did the Biden administration react so rapidly to redirect the American people about the facts surrounding this shooting? How can it be blamed on an inanimate object like a gun when it is clear that this individual had severe behavioral problems, most likely amplified by his dysfunctional family life and extensive drug use?

We know that both parents and the grandmother of the Uvalde shooter had criminal records. The shooter was a high school dropout, a loner, and a violent videogame–player. His father was not present in his life. Almost certainly, he had no religion. His nickname was "school shooter." Four years ago, he was arrested for threatening to shoot up a school. He cut up his face with knives for fun. He held up bags of dead cats with a grin on his face that was captured on video. "He liked hurting animals," according to a relative of his grandmother. One classmate said he had a tendency to be "violent towards women" and was described by an ex-girlfriend as "scary." He was a pot-smoker, just as his mother and father were. His grandfather actually served time in prison for drug-trafficking. His mother was about to be evicted due to her drug use.

The shooter had major issues, and it is clear he was immersed in a very unhealthy environment saturated with dysfunction and drugs.

Laura Ingraham did an amazing job in addressing the vitally important drug issue with the following report:

Now several studies have explored the connection between regular pot use and an increased risk for serious mental illness and even violent psychotic episodes, in some cases. In March 2019, the prestigious journal, The Lancet, conducted a case control study from eleven sites across Europe and Brazil. It found that with daily cannabis use, there were increased odds of a psychotic disorder, compared to those who never use it. And when it comes to high potency weed, the psychotic disorder went up five-fold.


Today Ron Kessler tackled the subject, as well, writing, 'Virtually everyone ignores the obvious reason for the dramatic increase in these tragedies: Democrats push legalizing marijuana, which has become three to four times more potent than it was only a few years ago... newer products can have levels of THC as high as 85% to 90%. ... The marijuana level in a typical joint 20 years ago was closer to 5%.

And a paper published in 2020 by one of my next guests analyzed past cases of violence in marijuana use, looking specifically at the deadly attacks. So in researching the Parkland and Southerland Springs mass shootings, the Times Square Attack in 2017, and the Boston Marathon Bombing, his study found recurring consequences of marijuana-induced paranoia and marijuana-induced psychosis. It also found that more potent marijuana resulted in a greater risk for psychosis.

The director of the National Institute on Drug Abuse, Dr. Nora Volkow, in January 2022, raised concerns that teens are increasingly vaping high-potency cannabis. Dr. Volkow said she is worried that "huge concentrations" of THC could have serious consequences. "We are seeing a very significant rise in psychosis associated with the consumption of marijuana," she said. "And the higher the content of THC, the higher the likelihood of a psychotic episode." There is still ongoing research to determine if such psychotic episodes can lead to permanent schizophrenia.

It is no surprise to any rational person that legalizing drugs is a bad idea and that the consequences of doing so would be catastrophic. We deserve to know the truth about this multi-billion-dollar and growing industry, how it's affecting our young people, our working-age population, and even our military readiness. Where are Biden and the politicians in regards to this issue? Their deafening silence is indicative: they care not for the children.

Let's be clear: America does not have a gun problem. America has a societal problem, where today's society, predominantly through liberal political policies, are causing irreparable harm to our young people. There is nothing good to come from legalizing dangerous drugs. Additionally, there is nothing good coming from defunding the police, being soft on crime, electing George Soros–funded district attorneys, promoting the breakdown of the nuclear family, eradication of religion, hyper-sexualizing young people, pushing Critical Race Theory, and the notion that young people can chose their own sex.

There is no doubt that these issues are immeasurably damaging to our young people and the disease we must cure. Hardening our schools is beneficial, but it only addresses the symptom of the disease. As for gun-grabbing after a school shooting, that is an evil and dishonest attempt by Biden and the other globalists to rob we the people of another right and to further their goal of a one-world dystopian communist government.

May we never forget:

"Arms are the only true badge of liberty. The possession of arms is the distinction of a free man from a slave."

Posted By: hippie

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:56 PM

How would mental health issues be addressed regarding guns if it isn't via this so called red flag law?
Posted By: Drifter

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 04:58 PM

RED FLAG LAWS


If Your Time is short

"Red flag” laws allow law enforcement or family members to petition courts to temporarily remove firearms from individuals if they pose a danger to themselves or others.

Courts can issue emergency orders that remove the person’s weapons for up to three weeks. Final orders, which include the opportunity for the person to defend themselves at a hearing, often last up to a year.

Nineteen states and Washington, D.C. have red flag laws. Previous efforts to pass a nationwide red flag law have stalled in Congress. But recent mass shootings have prompted bipartisan negotiations in the Senate that could include some type of legislation to expand red flag laws.

Democratic and Republican senators may find rare consensus on gun legislation by supporting the expansion of "red flag" laws. These laws allow courts to temporarily take away a gun from someone who shows signs of a threat.

In Texas, more than 250 conservatives who identify as gun enthusiasts wrote a letter to Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, in support of restrictions, including red flag laws.

"We believe in the Second Amendment. Like many, we are struggling for good answers to our current problem of gun violence in America," they wrote in a letter published as a full page ad in the Dallas Morning News.

Cornyn is one of the senators negotiating with Democrats to provide federal grants to encourage states to pass red flag laws. Here’s how they work.
What are red flag gun laws?

These laws are meant to remove weapons from dangerous people before a crime or tragedy occurs — hence the phrase "red flag."

The process allows people to petition a civil court to temporarily remove that person’s firearms. Red flag laws are sometimes called extreme risk protection orders (shorthanded as ERPOs); gun violence restraining orders; or state crisis intervention orders.

The mass shooter at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, for example, was the subject of two tips to the FBI about his plans as well as multiple 911 calls about his behavior for years before the shooting.

Each state’s law sets rules for who can start the petition process. Some states only allow law enforcement to request the orders. Other states allow family members or close contacts, such as coworkers or teachers, to file a petition. Most petitions are filed by law enforcement, and they are usually granted by the courts.

The petitions generally ask for some sort of documentation. For example, petitioners in Maryland are asked to write on a form what behaviors lead them to believe the person poses an immediate danger by possessing a firearm. It also asks the petitioner to list the number, type and location of the individual’s guns and the individual’s past acts or threats of violence, substance abuse and criminal history.

Once the court receives a petition, judges must follow their state law that explains what criteria a judge must or could consider.

In California, judges must consider whether the person has made threats, acted violently within the past six months or had a pattern of threats or violence over the past year. They must consider whether the person has violated a domestic violence emergency protective order or was convicted of a crime that would keep from legally keeping a firearm. A judge can consider evidence of alcohol or substance abuse.

If the threat of harm is imminent, courts can issue an emergency order without a hearing ordering the removal of a person’s guns. But those orders only last from a few days to three weeks. Before issuing a final order, a court holds a hearing where the person can testify on their own behalf or bring a lawyer.

In most states, final orders can last up to a year, though they can be extended. Once the order is issued, the individual must surrender their firearms. For example, Colorado’s law says that individuals can either sell their firearms to a federally licensed dealer or arrange for storage by a law enforcement agency. If the individual owns an antique firearm, it can be transferred to an eligible relative who doesn’t live with them.

In Broward County, Florida, Chief Judge Jack Tuter said around half of the individuals agree to the order because they don’t own a gun, and many others agree to turn over their firearm.

"In a very small or insignificant portion of the cases the person actually fights the risk protection order and comes to court, and sometimes they win and sometimes lose," Tuter said.

Critics of red flag laws say they lack due process, but that’s not accurate. These are civil proceedings where individuals can testify and face no risk of incarceration, Palm Beach State Attorney Dave Aronberg said. Prosecutors are only involved if someone violates an order, which is rare, Aronberg said.

It is possible for someone who is undergoing the red flag law to separately face a criminal charge. But in many situations there is no parallel criminal case.

Courts in Connecticut, Indiana, and Florida ruled that the laws do not violate the process rights of respondents or are constitutional.
Which states have red flag gun laws?

Connecticut was the first state to pass a red flag law in 1999. It followed a mass shooting by an accountant who worked for the state lottery. In the month leading up to the attack, the shooter showed clear signs that he was troubled.

Many other states have passed similar laws, including seven passed by Republican governors. States with red flag laws today include California, Colorado, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Virginia, and Washington as well as the District of Columbia.

Florida passed its red flag law in 2018 after the Parkland school shooting. Since then, Florida courts have issued about 8,000 final orders, according to data compiled by the Office of the State Court Administrator.

This can open a whole new can of worms.
Posted By: w side rd 151

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 05:25 PM

Drifer You wrote a mouthful and you are drop dead right This can open a whole new can of worms Once they take your guns from your home you will be fighting an uphill battle getting them back And you do not have to be accused of or have committed or charged of a crime or misdemeanor .It can just be that you have said something that may mean you are a danger to yourselves or others .In other words once they are gone you will have a hard time getting them back .And if that information can bwe used against you when doing a background you will be denied ever buying another gun
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by w side rd 151
Drifer You wrote a mouthful and you are drop dead right This can open a whole new can of worms Once they take your guns from your home you will be fighting an uphill battle getting them back And you do not have to be accused of or have committed or charged of a crime or misdemeanor .It can just be that you have said something that may mean you are a danger to yourselves or others .In other words once they are gone you will have a hard time getting them back .And if that information can bwe used against you when doing a background you will be denied ever buying another gun


“But right now things aren’t that bad so I don’t see why we can’t give in a little so we can keep the guns we have.”
Posted By: hippie

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by w side rd 151
Drifer You wrote a mouthful and you are drop dead right This can open a whole new can of worms Once they take your guns from your home you will be fighting an uphill battle getting them back And you do not have to be accused of or have committed or charged of a crime or misdemeanor .It can just be that you have said something that may mean you are a danger to yourselves or others .In other words once they are gone you will have a hard time getting them back .And if that information can bwe used against you when doing a background you will be denied ever buying another gun


My question still stands unanswered, how to address mental cases and guns?

Look back on the threads on here about these shootings when they happen, and you'll find alot of posts saying mental health needs addressed.
Posted By: w side rd 151

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 06:10 PM

I do not know any doctor well enough that I trust him with my second amendment rights .If a doctor decides you could be a danger he could require you to have your guns removed from your home. In other words you make what amounts to a threat to someone else and that gets the ball rolling. To get more incite into the whole thing do some research into section 302 of the PA Mental Health Law On the background check it says If you have been adjudicated as a mental defect or have been involuntarily committed to a mental health institution you are not allowed to own or process a gun. That is why the Red Flag laws are so dangerous to otherwise law abiding citizens
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 06:14 PM

If you are white you are mentally ill. lol
Posted By: w side rd 151

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 06:29 PM

The real problem is this country has money to throw at every social problem that comes down the road But when it comes to actually helping people that need help it is often near to impossible to see that those people are able to get help .What they are given is mountains of paperwork and excuses why they do not qualify .And the person is left not knowing what to do or how to get the help they need. And the government officials stand there and say well it is to bad they slip through the cracks .Nobody wants to get down and do the hard thing to fix the problem just throw more money around.
Posted By: Lazarus

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 06:37 PM

Typical politicians' response to a perceived problem -- let's through some money at it.
Posted By: BigBlackBirds

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by hippie
Originally Posted by w side rd 151
Drifer You wrote a mouthful and you are drop dead right This can open a whole new can of worms Once they take your guns from your home you will be fighting an uphill battle getting them back And you do not have to be accused of or have committed or charged of a crime or misdemeanor .It can just be that you have said something that may mean you are a danger to yourselves or others .In other words once they are gone you will have a hard time getting them back .And if that information can bwe used against you when doing a background you will be denied ever buying another gun


My question still stands unanswered, how to address mental cases and guns?

Look back on the threads on here about these shootings when they happen, and you'll find alot of posts saying mental health needs addressed.



AND what is going to happen in x number of years when the political analysts look at the outcomes of increased "funding" for mental health/telehealth resources but they can't correlate a decrease in shootings. I'd say the strategists behind the scenes on all sides are looking at this as an opportunity to play on the popular current slogan concerning lack of mental health resources knowing full well its just a kick the can down the road moment for the time being in order to be in a better spot to achieve their desired goals in the future. Plus they know the demographics will continue to slide in their favor on all accounts. This is only one play in the current book they are operating out of. Sounds nice and easy to say we are going to put some money into mental health resources and tell yourself that will make things fine. Not going to be quite that easy to change the culture of our current society that has opted to slowly condone over a number of decades the base behaviors that have gotten us to the current day.
Posted By: w side rd 151

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 06:53 PM

Agreed In order to fix the problem society must decide it will not allow or tolerate what has been accepted as just everyday common behavior
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 07:16 PM

We all know guns can be obtained illegally.... How much good does it do to take someone's guns but not lock them up if they are believed to be mentally unstable? That person can still go buy a stolen gun out of the trunk of a car and commit mass murder.

Simply taking guns from someone determined to hurt themselves or others is worthless if they can obtain another gun as soon as the cops leave their home.

This is all feel-good nonsense and buzzwords if there is no clear path to confining someone who is genuinely mentally ill. And a LEO is not a psychoanalyst. You need a professional or a panel of them to judge whether or not confinement is necessary.

Mike
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 07:57 PM




AND what is going to happen in x number of years when the political analysts look at the outcomes of increased "funding" for mental health/telehealth resources but they can't correlate a decrease in shootings. I'd say the strategists behind the scenes on all sides are looking at this as an opportunity to play on the popular current slogan concerning lack of mental health resources knowing full well its just a kick the can down the road moment for the time being in order to be in a better spot to achieve their desired goals in the future. Plus they know the demographics will continue to slide in their favor on all accounts. This is only one play in the current book they are operating out of. Sounds nice and easy to say we are going to put some money into mental health resources and tell yourself that will make things fine. Not going to be quite that easy to change the culture of our current society that has opted to slowly condone over a number of decades the base behaviors that have gotten us to the current day.






[/quote]
From what I've read and seen , everyone of the last few mass shooters , were under FBI surveillance .Yet weren't even questioned .There was reason to check them out , because they even threatened what they wanted to do . Another thing that bothers me and should you .Where did they get the money to buy these guns and other paraphernalia to commit these mass shootings ?FBI HAD THEM ON WATCH , BUYING BULLET PROOF GEAR ISN'T A REASON TO CHECK THEM OUT ?Say what you want , think what you want .JMHO There's more to this than we know .  Or want to believe.
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 08:10 PM

Another reason I'm not keen on Constitutional Carry in Ohio.At least as it's posted .DeWine is sitting on a bill for passing the Red Flag Law .He was in favor of it ! But it's held up in the house .So why did he pass Constitutional Carry ?I don't trust him or any politician !Give a little , take a lot ! The bait has been added to the trap .
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 08:16 PM

One other thing to consider...

If the red flag law passes and police go to someone's home and confiscate their guns... How will they know they got all of them? Crazy boy may have a bunch buried in the backyard that no one knew about. So he digs them up and goes on a spree anyway.

Of course the answer will be... We need a registry to make sure the popo get all of the guns from crazy boy.

Mike
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 09:22 PM

A felon shot and killed one of our Deputies last night.

His crime before this was armed robbery of a McDonalds which he got probation for in baltimore. We have background checks, red flag laws and a host of hoops to jump through to get a handgun. I wonder how he got his.

Our Sheriff apparently blasted our governor at a press conference.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 10:14 PM

Armed robbery and no prison? Hard to imagine there is a judge anywhere in this countries who doesn’t think 10
Years would be a start.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/13/22 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Armed robbery and no prison? Hard to imagine there is a judge anywhere in this countries who doesn’t think 10
Years would be a start.


Exactly why the Sheriff blasted the governor and baltimore judges.

Trying to find a link to the presser but they have all been taken down or edited. lol
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:25 AM

I don't like any anti-gun legislation, executive orders or agency actions. I have yet to see one that is constitutional. But if this bipartisan window dressing is all we get, we should consider it a decent day from a political standpoint. It's going to get worse and this is a set up for future legislation, but the can got kicked down the road.

I have one more AR10 on the wish list and a few more parts to buy. At that point me, my sons and my future grandsons will be well armed. I suggest everyone else do the same.

Or just complaint about it and be unarmed eventually.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
I don't like any anti-gun legislation, executive orders or agency actions. I have yet to see one that is constitutional. But if this bipartisan window dressing is all we get, we should consider it a decent day from a political standpoint. It's going to get worse and this is a set up for future legislation, but the can got kicked down the road.

I have one more AR10 on the wish list and a few more parts to buy. At that point me, my sons and my future grandsons will be well armed. I suggest everyone else do the same.

Or just complaint about it and be unarmed eventually.



No hurry to buy them. A single shot will do. Just get the m16 out of the trunk of the cruiser when your done and now you have one fully decked out complete with happy switch. Since the feds have been handing out full autos for over a decade there is at least one in the trunk of most cruisers.


In all seriousness most people's time and money would be better spent on getting into shape, buying and leaving how to use survival equipment like food preservation and procurement, waste storage and purification, transport, and communications equipment. But most people get caught up on their guns and 1k of ammo forgetting about the rest of the things it takes to survive like medical training and supplies or even shelter.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by Blaine County
I don't like any anti-gun legislation, executive orders or agency actions. I have yet to see one that is constitutional. But if this bipartisan window dressing is all we get, we should consider it a decent day from a political standpoint. It's going to get worse and this is a set up for future legislation, but the can got kicked down the road.

I have one more AR10 on the wish list and a few more parts to buy. At that point me, my sons and my future grandsons will be well armed. I suggest everyone else do the same.

Or just complaint about it and be unarmed eventually.



No hurry to buy them. A single shot will do. Just get the m16 out of the trunk of the cruiser when your done and now you have one fully decked out complete with happy switch. Since the feds have been handing out full autos for over a decade there is at least one in the trunk of most cruisers.


In all seriousness most people's time and money would be better spent on getting into shape, buying and leaving how to use survival equipment like food preservation and procurement, waste storage and purification, transport, and communications equipment. But most people get caught up on their guns and 1k of ammo forgetting about the rest of the things it takes to survive like medical training and supplies or even shelter.


I don't disagree with the preparedness comment. We are and happen to shoot a lot too. I have two boys that go through a lot of ammo on our range.....
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
Originally Posted by Blaine County
I don't like any anti-gun legislation, executive orders or agency actions. I have yet to see one that is constitutional. But if this bipartisan window dressing is all we get, we should consider it a decent day from a political standpoint. It's going to get worse and this is a set up for future legislation, but the can got kicked down the road.

I have one more AR10 on the wish list and a few more parts to buy. At that point me, my sons and my future grandsons will be well armed. I suggest everyone else do the same.

Or just complaintcomplain about it and be unarmed eventually.



No hurry to buy them. A single shot will do. Just get the m16 out of the trunk of the cruiser when your done and now you have one fully decked out complete with happy switch. Since the feds have been handing out full autos for over a decade there is at least one in the trunk of most cruisers.


In all seriousness most people's time and money would be better spent on getting into shape, buying and leaving how to use survival equipment like food preservation and procurement, waste storage and purification, transport, and communications equipment. But most people get caught up on their guns and 1k of ammo forgetting about the rest of the things it takes to survive like medical training and supplies or even shelter.


Good plan PF. I, myself, plan on picking up guns and ammo off of bodies, at least the ones not damaged by the blast.
Posted By: yotetrapper30

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:49 AM

Y'all are gonna get yourselves thrown in prison before the war ever starts posting crap like this.
Posted By: HobbieTrapper

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:50 AM

Originally Posted by yotetrapper30
Y'all are gonna get yourselves thrown in prison before the war ever starts posting crap like this.


It’s in the book. Don’t get too excited. lol
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 12:56 AM

Being prepared is never a bad thing. But you can only get so far on your own. When things go south don't hunker down in the basement eating wheat berries and survival bars. Community is what is going to win the day...

I am surrounded by thousands of acres of crops and pastured livestock... All of which require care, feeding, harvesting, and eyes to make sure they don't disappear. Being on good terms with your neighbors might get you a cut of the harvest if you pitch in and help. No one is entitled to what someone else has, bartering food for labor, security, etc... might help both parties out... 1200 acres of corn does no one any good if it can't be brought in.

Just a thought... Be neighborly.

Mike
Posted By: Ohio Wolverine

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 01:01 AM

Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Armed robbery and no prison? Hard to imagine there is a judge anywhere in this countries who doesn’t think 10
Years would be a start.


Exactly why the Sheriff blasted the governor and baltimore judges.

Trying to find a link to the presser but they have all been taken down or edited. lol



Seems that happens a lot in certain areas .Felons should get voting rights also .Where was the guy from that had like 49 felon charges against him , and he was given bond , and later Obama pardoned him?Not allowed to give his race , because that's racist !
Posted By: SJA

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by HobbieTrapper
Originally Posted by danny clifton
Armed robbery and no prison? Hard to imagine there is a judge anywhere in this countries who doesn’t think 10
Years would be a start.


Exactly why the Sheriff blasted the governor and baltimore judges.

Trying to find a link to the presser but they have all been taken down or edited. lol


Knowing B'mor's Prosecution AND Conviction record, I'm betting the attorney(s) SCREWED IT UP . . . we'll hear more soon I think.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Being prepared is never a bad thing. But you can only get so far on your own. When things go south don't hunker down in the basement eating wheat berries and survival bars. Community is what is going to win the day...

I am surrounded by thousands of acres of crops and pastured livestock... All of which require care, feeding, harvesting, and eyes to make sure they don't disappear. Being on good terms with your neighbors might get you a cut of the harvest if you pitch in and help. No one is entitled to what someone else has, bartering food for labor, security, etc... might help both parties out... 1200 acres of corn does no one any good if it can't be brought in.

Just a thought... Be neighborly.

Mike


Agree and same here. I have great neighbors for the most part. We check cows for each other, help out on all manner of things and I am about to loan my oldest kids to one for wheat harvest.

There is one neighbor who is a real prick. Everyone within 10 miles will be racing to deal with him if the SHTF.
Posted By: Mike in A-town

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
Originally Posted by Mike in A-town
Being prepared is never a bad thing. But you can only get so far on your own. When things go south don't hunker down in the basement eating wheat berries and survival bars. Community is what is going to win the day...

I am surrounded by thousands of acres of crops and pastured livestock... All of which require care, feeding, harvesting, and eyes to make sure they don't disappear. Being on good terms with your neighbors might get you a cut of the harvest if you pitch in and help. No one is entitled to what someone else has, bartering food for labor, security, etc... might help both parties out... 1200 acres of corn does no one any good if it can't be brought in.

Just a thought... Be neighborly.

Mike


Agree and same here. I have great neighbors for the most part. We check cows for each other, help out on all manner of things and I am about to loan my oldest kids to one for wheat harvest.

There is one neighbor who is a real prick. Everyone within 10 miles will be racing to deal with him if the SHTF.


There's always that one jerk.

Mike
Posted By: Scuba1

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 02:38 AM

Posted By: Marty

Re: Bipartisan Gun Deal Announced - 06/14/22 04:16 AM

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