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Catholic Pope advocates gun control

Posted By: danny clifton

Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 03:40 AM

https://www.yahoo.com/news/vatican-says-pro-life-activists-033725634.html

So does that mean the catholic church in the U.S. is now required to pay income tax? No other preacher is allowed to speak about politics from the pulpit without losing tax exemption.
Posted By: warrior

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 03:50 AM

No it means that idiot don't know his head from a hole in the ground.
Posted By: bowhunter27295

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 03:52 AM

Clergy can voice THEIR political opinion. They CANNOT call their congregation to action on their political opinion.

Example

Preacher says he doesn't like ice cream joey. no problem.

Preacher gives sermon on why anyone in HIS congregation should not vote for ice cream joey. Problem.
Posted By: warrior

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 03:56 AM

Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Clergy can voice THEIR political opinion. They CANNOT call their congregation to action on their political opinion.

Example

Preacher says he doesn't like ice cream joey. no problem.

Preacher gives sermon on why anyone in HIS congregation should not vote for ice cream joey. Problem.


Only if you're white and Southern Baptist.

If you're a POC and a CME you can have the buses in the parking lot and drive them to the polls on Sunday.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 04:01 AM

I'm sure he likes his Swiss security and high walls. Funny he didn't like wals when Trump.wanted one or guns in the people's hands. I believe this is the worst pope in my lifetime.
Posted By: dmac

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 05:03 AM

Originally Posted by Providence Farm
I'm sure he likes his Swiss security and high walls. Funny he didn't like wals when Trump.wanted one or guns in the people's hands. I believe this is the worst pope in my lifetime.

Not even close. He should be exposed to what he's allowed to happen...
Posted By: yotetrapper30

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 09:20 AM

Nothing surprises me with that pope.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 09:49 AM

Bowhunter he is calling them to action.

Quote
Vatican Says 'Pro Life' Activists Must Fight For Gun Control


Taxing the Catholic church here in the U.S. wouldn't be as lucrative as taxing the Vatican but would still be a nice windfall.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 10:12 AM

That'll likely never happen since Poopypants pretends to be Catholic.
Posted By: w side rd 151

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 10:31 AM

Maybe he should come up with his policy concerning the many misdeeds of the clergy within the church .
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by w side rd 151
Maybe he should come up with his policy concerning the many misdeeds of the clergy within the church .

I'm guessing he has been involved right along with the others. All men have the same desires.
Posted By: Animals Only

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 10:45 AM

Gary. I don't think all men desire to rape a sodomize boys.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:01 AM

Perhaps this Pope, who the media paints in what theology calls a latitude/liberal stance (not a political term but rather taking a "wide" stance on the majority consensus throughout Christian history) is simply advocating for human life? That make sense to a believer because believers are called to treasure the sanctity of what God creates - most certainly human life - as we watch so many threaten or actually kill human life.

To "take" a life, is just that. Taking life, which doesn't belong to you. It is God's.

The Apostle Paul's letter to the believers in Philippi was exactly this theme.
The Gospel Hope is to present oneself humbly as Christ did for us.

For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ
(Phil 3:18–20).

Suffering is assured in this life, wrote the Apostles, most certainly if you are a follower of Christ in a world that strides to the beat of its own drum.
The Pharisees taught the Law of blessings and cursing from Lev 26 & Deut 28 and couldn't envision any other lifestyle, so they charged Paul with being a false teacher.
But Paul wasn't a false teacher and the Gospel Hope remains the same today as it was then....
The Hope for the follower of Christ is a later embodied resurrection upon a New Earth with Christ Jesus.
Life to come is the short phrase.

Maybe that's the Pope's teaching? I pray that's his heart.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: corky

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:17 AM

I am 70 with a Catholic background. Catholic grade school and high school. This Pope has overturned many of the things I was taught. As far as I'm concerned this Pope is not Catholic and I won't return until he is gone. As far as paying taxes I think that if the Church takes tax money they should also pay into it. Catholic Social Services is a huge recipient of tax money to support illegal aliens. In my opinion, that is not right. The Catholic Church, like many others, is all about money and power.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
Perhaps this Pope, who the media paints in what theology calls a latitude/liberal stance (not a political term but rather taking a "wide" stance on the majority consensus throughout Christian history) is simply advocating for human life? That make sense to a believer because believers are called to treasure the sanctity of what God creates - most certainly human life - as we watch so many threaten or actually kill human life.

To "take" a life, is just that. Taking life, which doesn't belong to you. It is God's.

The Apostle Paul's letter to the believers in Philippi was exactly this theme.
The Gospel Hope is to present oneself humbly as Christ did for us.

For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ,
whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things.
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ
(Phil 3:18–20).

Suffering is assured in this life, wrote the Apostles, most certainly if you are a follower of Christ in a world that strides to the beat of its own drum.
The Pharisees taught the Law of blessings and cursing from Lev 26 & Deut 28 and couldn't envision any other lifestyle, so they charged Paul with being a false teacher.
But Paul wasn't a false teacher and the Gospel Hope remains the same today as it was then....
The Hope for the follower of Christ is a later embodied resurrection upon a New Earth with Christ Jesus.
Life to come is the short phrase.

Maybe that's the Pope's teaching? I pray that's his heart.

Blessings,
Mark

I respect your giving him the benefit of doubt. But a 5sec search on his other stances should be
e all it takes to wipe that curiosity away quickly. He is often far from the biblical stance in his own.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:26 AM

I understand your thought PM, but as believers we're called to edify one another and let God judge the hearts of others.

Is this Pope a liberal theologian?
My opinion is "sure is."
Is his leadership unrighteous?
That's a branch I won't climb out on.

The Roman Catholics are brothers and sisters to all Christ followers....
so yes, they get the benefit on my doubt.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:41 AM

Mark are u saying supporting gun control is the Christian thing to do?
Posted By: Marathon

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:43 AM

Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 11:58 AM

Sure sounds like thats what he is saying.
Posted By: BandB

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 12:20 PM

What is the verse that tells us to edify false teachers and false doctrine?
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 12:28 PM

Mark goes well armed when trapping South Texas and has no problem addressing others theological stance on here if he disagrees with it . But maybe we are lower class and the Pope is up there in Marks class so it's hands off.
Posted By: 330-Trapper

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by bowhunter27295
Clergy can voice THEIR political opinion. They CANNOT call their congregation to action on their political opinion.

Example

Preacher says he doesn't like ice cream joey. no problem.

Preacher gives sermon on why anyone in HIS congregation should not vote for ice cream joey. Problem.


Only if you're white and Southern Baptist.

If you're a POC and a CME you can have the buses in the parking lot and drive them to the polls on Sunday.

True
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by BandB
What is the verse that tells us to edify false teachers and false doctrine?

I believe through out Scriptures Jesus AND the disciples regularly called out false doctrine and teachings among leadership
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by Yes sir
Originally Posted by BandB
What is the verse that tells us to edify false teachers and false doctrine?

I believe through out Scriptures Jesus AND the disciples regularly called out false doctrine and teachings among leadership




Infact Christians are called to call out other Christians and help keep them on the right path. That may be a simple Hey brother do you think that is a proper Christian way to Handel that. Ot it may be righteous anger flipping over tables and whipping money changers.
Posted By: charles

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/27/22 08:05 PM

Politics from the pulpit is thousands of years old I expect. Don’t mean it is right, but it is common place.

Imagine a 100 years ago when some church members could not read. Who told them how to vote, assuming they were even registered to vote.

In the South, politicians speak from the pulpit in many black churches.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 12:05 AM

charles, I suspect a politician can speak freely in any venue. Clergy and their church are supposed to lose their tax exempt status when they get political.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by charles
Politics from the pulpit is thousands of years old I expect. Don’t mean it is right, but it is common place.

Imagine a 100 years ago when some church members could not read. Who told them how to vote, assuming they were even registered to vote.

In the South, politicians speak from the pulpit in many black churches.

Only since 1954 has it been against the law in this country thanks to Lyndon Johnson. And it was only to help his campaign not because he thought it unethical. Added to an IRS tax code without discussion or debate I believe.
Posted By: mnsota

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 03:05 AM


Imagine a 100 years ago when some church members could not read. Who told them how to vote, assuming they were even registered to vote.

Oh my ,.the progression,we now rely on MSM to fill that void.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 10:35 AM

As followers of Christ, we're called by His Grace alone with a missional Plan. Capitol P.
God's Glory.

Yes, when any believer, Pope or otherwise steps into advocating for their own glory - not God's - we who are called by Him are supposed to gently but firmly correct and reproof using Scripture as our guide.
Today, it's far too common place for people's own fleshly opinion to lead the correcting and reproofing effort with hardly any divinely revealed Scripture referred to.

That's called coveting - or seeking - human glory. The oldest sin in the Book.
Which opposes God's Glory.

So we give much grace on the front end of EVERY thing we Christians do, because God first extended Grace and Mercy to all us sinners who hated him previously...
in a world the shouts very loudly against that tenet.

I'll try as best I can to give God the Glory, not any Pope, or any gun.
Although I gotta bunch of guns for hunting, shooting, plinking and such.
grin

Some on this here Tman forum are batting about .032 on telling me what my beliefs are wink

Blessings!
Mark
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 10:46 AM

Hail Mary
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by Yes sir
Mark goes well armed when trapping South Texas and has no problem addressing others theological stance on here if he disagrees with it . But maybe we are lower class and the Pope is up there in Marks class so it's hands off.


Hands off the Pope or hands off Mark?
A bit of sarcasim isn't ever edifying if that's your intent Yes Sir.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 12:48 PM

Wasn't my intent on either case and I believed I asked what your beliefs are on gun control. I didn't tell you what ur believes are . You post something that seems to say your for gun control and against using a gun to take another life which I assume even in self defense situations because it was a very broad an open statement. But in light of the fact that you had posted how well you went armed for your self protection when trapping South Texas it appeared in there is some contradiction. Maybe for us simpletons your could clearly say we're you stand on gun control and using it for self defense.
Posted By: Blaine County

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 01:24 PM

I'm Catholic. I don't agree with the Church or Pope on lots of things. If the Pope actually took a stand in favor of gun control, we would disagree greatly.

Buy y'all ragging on him is ridiculous. He is more Christian in ideas and attitude than the preachers screaming hateful nonsense or peddling prosperity gospel garbage. I see many of those teachings parrotted here.

I may not agree with the Pope politically but he was the right guy for the job and I'm glad he's there.
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Mark June
The Roman Catholics are brothers and sisters to all Christ followers....
so yes, they get the benefit on my doubt.

Not so here.

Originally Posted by Blaine County


Buy y'all ragging on him is ridiculous. He is more Christian in ideas and attitude than the preachers screaming hateful nonsense or peddling prosperity gospel garbage.

Both are heretical.
Posted By: cathryn

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 02:22 PM

No birth control and no guns?....

Seems like Catholics wanna take over the world. grin
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 02:51 PM

Time to tax them. Make an accurate account of all the money they take in.
Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Blaine County
I'm Catholic. I don't agree with the Church or Pope on lots of things. If the Pope actually took a stand in favor of gun control, we would disagree greatly.

Buy y'all ragging on him is ridiculous. He is more Christian in ideas and attitude than the preachers screaming hateful nonsense or peddling prosperity gospel garbage. I see many of those teachings parrotted here.

I may not agree with the Pope politically but he was the right guy for the job and I'm glad he's there.



Maybe I'm wrong but I thought that the Pope was basically God's voice on earth according to catholicism? He can't be voted out.

I think prosperity preaching is a beyond bad way to go but your pope is just as bad if not worse in lots of things I heard him say. I'm no biblical schooler and see that plainly..
Posted By: Bigbrownie

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mark June


Some on this here Tman forum are batting about .032 on telling me what my beliefs are wink

Mark


Best come back response I’ve ever seen on Tman.
Posted By: charles

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 06:17 PM

We need a non-Catholic Pope. Problem solved.
Posted By: Trapper7

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 06:35 PM

This pope needs to worry more about his church and keep his nose out of politics.
Posted By: Guss

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 06:39 PM

I never listen to a man in a funny hat.
Posted By: Grandpa Trapper

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 06:46 PM

If the Pope is the right man for the job then Biden is the right man for his job.
Posted By: corky

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by charles
We need a non-Catholic Pope. Problem solved.

That's the problem : we have one.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/28/22 11:24 PM

.
I know plenty of catholics that ignore the whole birth control thing, have been divorced, dont tithe etc. I am sure gun nuts will ignore this. It IS politics though. Why shouldn't they be taxed like everybody else?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by Mark June
The Roman Catholics are brothers and sisters to all Christ followers....
so yes, they get the benefit on my doubt.

Not so here.

Originally Posted by Blaine County


Buy y'all ragging on him is ridiculous. He is more Christian in ideas and attitude than the preachers screaming hateful nonsense or peddling prosperity gospel garbage.

Both are heretical.


The "Roman" Catholic Church is in no way heretical and neither is the Pope.
Heresy in a theological sense is when a person or religions faith statement SUBTRACTS from the core tenets of the faith, which the RC Church has never done.
Heterodoxy is what the RC Church has done, which is to ADD to the orthodoxy (right thinking) of the Christian faith. Sacraments for example, or their stance on Mother Mary (Mariology). These are additions and thus they are "add ons." Not take-aways.

The Latter Day Saints and the Jehovah Witnesses have SUBTRACTED from the core tenets of Christianity (faith statements on the Deity of Christ and the Trinity), thus they both designated as being aberrant (heretical) faiths. Not Christians.

I hope this helps clarify.
Clarity is always good.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Time to tax them. Make an accurate account of all the money they take in.


The Church was never supposed to keep its biblical views out of governmental proceedings in America, but rather the other way around....
The Founding Fathers were well read men and knew of the mischief and corruption that Europe had gone though with a state/Church collaboration...
so America's folding documents were drafted to keep the state from meddling in the affairs of the Church.

There is no "separation of Church and State" as has been wrongly claimed for so long now, it's a chant, chant, chant of the pagans.
It has been twisted, along with so much else in this nation, since 1776, that it'd be super duper to tack the sails and head back to the original intent,
which was always Religious Freedom.

The tax code is simply a way to SHUT UP the Church.
And it has worked in large measure.

Should a Church advocate who to vote for?
Nope. Because that never been a biblical mission from our Lord.
Should a Church promote the compassion, grace, slow to anger, lovingkindness, and truth of God (Exodus 34:6-7)?
Yep.
Every day, in a world opposed to all of it.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: white marlin

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Mark June
Should a Church advocate who to vote for?
Nope. Because that never been a biblical mission from our Lord.
Should a Church promote the compassion, grace, slow to anger, lovingkindness, and truth of God (Exodus 34:6-7)?
Yep.
Every day, in a world opposed to all of it.

Blessings,
Mark


and as proof of that, Jesus didn't rail against the secular (Roman) government, or encourage people to protest in Rome.

His gripe was with evil and the so-called "religious" folks of His day.

(I'd think that danny would appreciate that)
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Mark June
The "Roman" Catholic Church is in no way heretical and neither is the Pope.


Pardon me if I'm mistaken but I believe I've seen you claim you hold to reformed theology. You can't claim to hold to reformed theology and still make a statement like that. The reformers themselves considered the pope to be the antichrist, or at the very least, an antichrist.

I know some modern evangelicals have declared a truce with Rome but it's to their own detriment. I don't consider Roman Catholicism to be a different denomination, it's an altogether different religion.

Feel free to discuss at length.
Posted By: rvsask

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 04:34 PM

He also advocates for giving money to their ridiculously rich organization.
Many people do. Lol
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 04:40 PM

I would never claim a faith wasn't Christian, unless they themselves professed they weren't Christian.

How arrogant.

The ones who think they know the most, know the least...The "educated" know it alls are below the very least believers who continually seek, are humble, and have pure hearts.

Posted By: Providence Farm

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 04:52 PM

Mark I think the church should advocate whom to vote for. God gives rulers power to rule over us so we are to submit to their authority correct? So they should want rulers that follow and live biblically principled life's. Becuse if their household is not in order they have no business leading others. That's my churches stance on preachers, decons, and elders. I see the same traits needed in government leaders.

Unfortunately most churches let the money an a tax code shut them down.

As far as it being OK to add things to Christianity being ok? Better than taking away even?

Correct me if I'm wrong but the Bible clearly states to the effect this book is it nothing should be added or taken away period. So both are equally bad just as all sin is equally bad in the sight of God. Lying is as bad as murder for example.

I have not spent years studying it but strongly feel your wrong or misguided unless I'm not understanding what your were conveying.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 05:23 PM

Anybody got any arguments as to why all church’s should not be audited and taxed?
Posted By: Grandpa Trapper

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Anybody got any arguments as to why all church’s should not be audited and taxed?


If they make political statements they should.
Posted By: BandB

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 06:58 PM

Any institution taxed by the government, is subject to the government via the tax code.
Posted By: Trapper7

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/29/22 07:27 PM

When asked, Jesus said, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's".
Romans 13:1 says, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities."
I guess he forgot that Biden would on day be a president. grin
Posted By: Fisher Man

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 12:43 AM

The Pope is merely a man that has been elected to his position. I wonder how many guns protect him at the Vatican and when he travels.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:00 AM

some maybe most churches give away any extra money. some are rolling in it. the catholic church has more gold and silver than most countries. its only right those church's that profit pay the same income tax everyone else pays.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:01 AM

pointy hat needs a come uppence for telling the faithful that you and me should disarm
Posted By: AntiGov

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:08 AM

He's as dumb as Joe , but prolly not as evil

Ya never know though
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:17 AM

Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I would never claim a faith wasn't Christian, unless they themselves professed they weren't Christian.

How arrogant.

The ones who think they know the most, know the least...The "educated" know it alls are below the very least believers who continually seek, are humble, and have pure hearts.


I was in a garage the other day and the owner asked me if I had ever seen a counterfeit $20 bill. I told him I hadn't and he proceeded to show me one. His wife had taken in four of them at the same time. At a glance they looked legit but upon closer inspection the fraud was obvious. Kind of what we're talking about here. Comparing a counterfeit to the genuine thing. Nothing arrogant about it.

Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I would never claim a faith wasn't Christian, unless they themselves professed they weren't Christian.

How arrogant.

The ones who think they know the most, know the least...The "educated" know it alls are below the very least believers who continually seek, are humble, and have pure hearts.


I was in a garage the other day and the owner asked me if I had ever seen a counterfeit $20 bill. I told him I hadn't and he proceeded to show me one. His wife had taken in four of them at the same time. At a glance they looked legit but upon closer inspection the fraud was obvious. Kind of what we're talking about here. Comparing a counterfeit to the genuine thing. Nothing arrogant about it.


John 3:16, if you believe in him that's all it takes...There will be Mormons and Jehova Witness in Heaven....To say there will be non christians in heaven is absurd, now who is counterfeit?
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:25 AM

I don't doubt there will be few who dig out the truth for themselves, but that will despite of, not because of those teachings.
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by Posco
I don't doubt there will be few who dig out the truth for themselves, but that will despite of, not because of those teachings.

So you don't believe many Mormons or JW believe in Christ?
Posted By: corky

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 02:08 AM

https://www.businessinsider.com/vatican-grants-nancy-pelosi-communion-abortion-rights-ban-2022-6
Posted By: Grandpa Trapper

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 02:49 AM



If this is true, the Pope is a despicable man.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Posco
Originally Posted by Mark June
The "Roman" Catholic Church is in no way heretical and neither is the Pope.


Pardon me if I'm mistaken but I believe I've seen you claim you hold to reformed theology. You can't claim to hold to reformed theology and still make a statement like that. The reformers themselves considered the pope to be the antichrist, or at the very least, an antichrist.

I know some modern evangelicals have declared a truce with Rome but it's to their own detriment. I don't consider Roman Catholicism to be a different denomination, it's an altogether different religion.

Feel free to discuss at length.


In Theology, there is a history and as far as Christian historical theology (Theology = discussion of God) there has been a VERY lengthy and robust discussion, up to and including death, over doctrine.
But doctrine has survived, all based on revelation (Creation/Scripture/Jesus Christ) for quite some time and there are core doctrines of Christianity that are set in stone as they say. Theologians have embraced these or not, and whether a religion is Christian or not is set upon them.

They are;
The Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit
The full deity of Christ - The Son is fully God and fully human
The Spiritual lostness of the human race - None are righteous, no not one.
The substitutionary atonement and bodily resurrection of Christ - For our sake and for us sinners
Salvation by Grace alone - God's Will be done
The physical return of Christ - the 2nd Coming
The authority and inerrancy of Scripture - the Bible is the Revelation of God.

The Catholics have not subtracted anything from this list (heresy) but have added to this list, which is not considered in Theology as heresy, but rather heterodoxy.
Yes, I am of the Reformed Theology camp, and I serve alongside RC priests in what I do, and we have some good jabs at each other but we fully realize we are brothers and sisters.
I tell em they coulda stopped with 2 sacraments and can always pray straight away to Christ and pull back from the Mariology...
They jab at me that us Evangelical Reformers have fallen in love with our Bibles and outta love the One who wrote it!
All of that is fair.
We're all human and we're all Christians.
As an example, the Church of Pakistan is NOW the merging of ALL denominations of Christianity in response to the brutal persecution of Christians in that country. LDS's and JW's are not included in that merging as they are aberrant faiths (they do not adhere to the core doctrines of Christianity.
The recommendation to merge all denominations came interestingly enough from.... Europe and America.... where we can't do that ourselves.
Not enough persecution here is my guess.

And you'd have to point me to a Reformer that believed the Pope was the Anti-Christ. I'm not aware that Luther, Calvin, Bucer, or Zwingli held that view. They held, and I agree, that the Western Church, schism (split) from the East in 1054, had ventured much too far from the Apostolic teachings. Corruption has breed itself into the core of the Western Church and so in the 16th century, the Western Church schism occurred along with the "Protesters" who "Reformed" the Church towards its ancient beginnings (doctrine).
Thus the Protestants and the RC's emerged.

Hope this clarifies Posco.
There have been countless predictions as to the 2nd Coming, who is the Anti-Christ and on and on and ALL OF IT is no good for the faith.
We'll know when the Son of Man returns. Jesus assured us of that.

Blessings,
Mark

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
I would never claim a faith wasn't Christian, unless they themselves professed they weren't Christian.

How arrogant.

The ones who think they know the most, know the least...The "educated" know it alls are below the very least believers who continually seek, are humble, and have pure hearts.



Nice try KY.
Studying the history of faith helps to find out what is what. An anti-intellgentism is sweeping the land as people plant their banners in surface level talking points. But the Mormons have a history and you can study it if you want. Or not.

It's their faith and they can do what they want but they aren't considered Christians. Not in the realm of theology doctrine. They are known as polytheists because they believe, according the Joesph Smith's well known writings, that the Godhead are separate gods.

Now does the Church flaunt this and speak about it and such? No. Because they are well known as setting up shop and recruiting Christinas. Having "Apostle" leadership is enticing of course, but the definition of an Apostle in Theology is one who has seen the Risen Lord....
And none alive since 33AD have.

So the average goer to the CLDS gathering thinks they are attending a Christian faith based group.
I've asked MANY Mormons about their church doctrine - which is there is no Triune God - and I can't remember any of them even knowing that about their church.
Look up Beaver Island here in MI sometime and you will get a better glimpse of the founders of that faith.

Great folks by the way. Always seem real nice. Just lost.
Study doctrine KY and leave the calling of others as arrogant home.
It serves no worthy purpose.

If you want to dive deeper all of these aberrant doctrines can be found of the official Mormon website;
It's a LONG List of non-Christian beliefs.


- The Bible has many errors, changes, and omissions and must be understood using the Mormon scriptures as explained by the LDS Church’s prophets.
- God the Father was once a man like us but is now God, our Heavenly Father.
- We are all eternal, uncreated spirits who became the literal offspring of our Heavenly Father and Mother.
- Jesus Christ was the firstborn spirit son of our heavenly parents and is the literal elder spirit brother of all of their other spirit children, including Lucifer (Satan). He became a God in heaven before becoming a mortal man.
- The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are three separate Gods with three separate bodies (the first two of flesh and bone, the third of spirit).
- Jesus Christ organized this world with the help of others, under the direction of Heavenly Father and the Council of the Gods; his helpers included Adam and perhaps Joseph Smith.
- Adam and Eve’s act of eating the forbidden fruit was not a sin, but was a noble deed that was necessary for the blessing of the human race.
- Heavenly Father, himself an immortal, physical man, “sired” the physical body of Jesus Christ through his mortal mother Mary so that Jesus became his literal, only-begotten Son in the flesh when he was born on earth.
- Salvation in the sense of immortal, glorified physical life is guaranteed for virtually all people, including those who reject Jesus Christ in this life, by Christ’s suffering, death, and resurrection.
- Only those who accept the LDS faith and obey its requirements will be saved to live in the presence of Heavenly Father.
- Joseph Smith is the Prophet of the Restoration, who did more for mankind’s salvation than anyone besides Jesus Christ.
- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only true church, and its priesthood and ordinances are necessary for entrance into God’s presence in the celestial kingdom.
- Faithful Mormons may become Gods, meaning that they can become all-powerful beings that make and rule their own worlds.


I'd say, as many do, that Mormon aberrance sways into cult like.
Blessings
Mark
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:12 AM

Okay Mark, Let's assume you know what your talking about, Do you believe there will be any JW or Mormons in Heaven?
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:14 AM

What does any of that have to do with a member of the clergy preaching politics?

I see where there is more stuff going on with clergy that are pedophiles and cover-up by church hierarchy too. In multiple brands.

So why are they not being taxed?????????????? All charity is exempt. Only profit and property being taxed. If these "I am better and smarter, a special person who speaks for god" types are tax exempt why are the rest of us not exempt?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
What does any of that have to do with a member of the clergy preaching politics?

I see where there is more stuff going on with clergy that are pedophiles and cover-up by church hierarchy too. In multiple brands.

So why are they not being taxed?????????????? All charity is exempt. Only profit and property being taxed. If these "I am better and smarter, a special person who speaks for god" types are tax exempt why are the rest of us not exempt?


Iz just answering Q's danny.
wink

Heck, give Caesar what is Caesar's if that's what you want. Jesus taught it.
Tax code should NEVER steer the pulpit, but the pulpit has no need to preach division.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by ky_coyote_hunter
Okay Mark, Let's assume you know what your talking about, Do you believe there will be any JW or Mormons in Heaven?


I do know what I'm talking about whistle because it's published and taught by others so we can "see" it.

I'm an exclusivist in theological terms meaning, as Jesus taught, there is one and only one way to Heaven, and the Hope of Resurrection to come.....

Christ.
The Son of God.
Who is God.

Which isn't what Mormonism teaches.

Exclusivism isn't popular here in 2022 as everyone should get the trophy...
but God had no need to send the Son to seek and save what was lost if everyone, everyone, everyone is already saved.
Any Q's, seek Scripture. It's all in there.
For us to know.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:30 AM

So there is exclusivity in how you believe in Christ to get to Heaven?....I thought it was whosoever believes?

Oh, and were not exclusively talking about Mormons, JH witness were mentioned too.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:37 AM

Yep ^^^^^^ that'd be whosever believes that I AM who they say I AM, the Son of God, Who is fully God and fully human.
The Trinity is not in any dispute Ky. By any Christian denomination.
But aberrant faiths (Smith) didn't accept it.
OK.
All of us make choices.

The Mormon doctrine is related to Jesus as being; "Jesus Christ was the firstborn spirit son of our heavenly parents and is the literal elder spirit brother of all of their other spirit children, including Lucifer (Satan). He became a God in heaven before becoming a mortal man."

^^^^^^^ This isn't Christian KY. Shoot me if you wish. Kill the messenger but the message remains.
Maybe you didn't know this.

Polytheism is the belief in multiple gods and is as old as man. LDS's are cast from that mold. Same as Arianism (JW's)....
because they both don't accept the doctrines of Christianity.

Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:41 AM

John 3:16 says whosoever believes in him (Jesus Christ) will not perish and have everlasting life, it doesn't say who believes in the makeup (or not) of the trinity, or what faith you are.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 10:45 AM

Define "him" is key here ky.
I support people who believe Jesus is.... heck, I can't tell you all the stories I hear....
99.98% non-Christian.

Oh well.
Believe what you want.
I'm not selling anything.
But I know the doctrines of Christianity which you toss around as if they are of no use to us.
I disagree.
They ARE the faith on which we stand.
Built for a reason and paid for with a price we cannot pay.
No matter how many doors we knock on and give out literature and dress nice.

Blessings,
Mark
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 11:01 AM

I'm not coming down on you Mark, not at all, appreciate your efforts and believe your solid...I'm going to tell you how I see it here...

It doesn't matter so much if people don't choose brand A of this or that faith, what does matter is them seeking him (Christ) the content of their hearts, repentance, contrite spirit, being humble and that they believe in Jesus Christ with all their hearts.

I absolutely believe there will be JW and LDS in Heaven, they are your brothers and sisters in Christ....Now you might not see it that way, but I do....And unless someone specifically tells me they don't believe in Christ there is no way I take it on myself to have the authority to say otherwise.

I do see saying someone isn't Christian, when they believe in their heart Christ is their saviour as arrogant, just as telling someone they are going to hades is also...I don't have that authority, and neither do you, IMO.

As you say, don't shoot the messenger, none of us are enemies here, we're all seeking, always seeking.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 11:08 AM

If you'd like, I'll start another thread tomorrow and we can chat as we highjacked friend danny's thread and when he sees me I won't get a hug.

What we all believe as individuals is key, but what God revealed to us for that to happen is bigger by far.
Posted By: ky_coyote_hunter

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 11:14 AM

Sorry Danny, Mark and I have a history with this stuff wink...No new thread necessary Mark, I know where your coming from, and your right Mark about all this being bigger by far.

In fact much bigger, you can hug Danny now, no don't!, Lol.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 11:52 AM

I will pass on the hug. Been told you smell funny
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 12:52 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 12:58 PM

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Posco

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 06/30/22 01:00 PM

Tax away, Danny, it won't bother me a bit.
Posted By: Snowpa

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 07/01/22 05:01 AM

Not my Pope
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Catholic Pope advocates gun control - 07/01/22 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by Posco
[Linked Image]


Yes, Calvin (as was Bucer) did write passionately about no need for the papacy. There is debate still about whether Calvin writings of anti-Christ meant "opposed to Christ" or Anti-Christ - the Beast of the Book of Revelation. I was thinking you were referring to the Beast when most scholars agree (I do also) that Calvin and the Reformers who called the Pope (Paul III and his predecessors from the 1054 schism/split of East and West) "anti-christ," had a small "a" applied, meaning opposed to Christ, the Groom of the Church.

Regardless, there is no meaningly debate at any level of theology as to whether RC's are Christians because they affirm the 7 doctrines (and more) of Christianity.
RC's are heterodoxical meaning they have added to the doctrines of the Christian faith which theologically speaking is not out of bounds.
Out of bounds is taking doctrines away and saying you're the same. That can't be.
The core of Christianity is enveloped in layers of Roman Catholicism is what I learned during my 8 semesters of non-denominational seminary studies.

RC's have indeed elevated the position of the episcopoi (overseer) found in the Bible and as Protestants we would say that no believer has any righteous rank above any other in the eyes of God.
The levels of leadership in the biblical writings are deaconoi (deacon), presbyter (elder), and episcopoi (overseer).
The Patristic Fathers, including Cyprian who was the first to elevate a Bishop as the overseer of other bishops, for the most part wrote of EVERY Christian being not par with each other.
There was leadership.... but the Patristic Fathers's wrote of no "rank" per se, in the kingdom of Heaven, other than of course the Lord Christ begin given authority above all things, because of the Cross.

For those of us who enjoy history, there's no finer history than theology. It's rich, full of conflict because people are people, and it simply keeps plodding along.
Until Christ returns again.

Gotta love it.
Blessings brother Posco!

Mark

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