Winchester Model 12. I have over two dozen of them. Been shooting them for over 57 years. The oldest is a 1919 two barrel set, the newest is a 1972 Y Model Skeet. In all those years and thousands of rounds, hunting, trap, skeet, and sporting clays I have only broken one firing pin. Pretty reliable I'ld say.
It may have rivals in the looks department. But there is none stronger or more reliable. This one's a 2 3/4" 12 gauge Field Model choked full & improved cylinder. It's 89 years old and runs like a Swiss watch. Tight as a flicker's nest, as well.
I like my 870 police 20 inch had the barrel threaded for rem-chokes
I also like my M500 with 20 inch vent rib barrel and Morgan pad because it is lighter to carry all day you wouldn't think one pound would make that much difference in weight
a M37 set up right is mighty hard to beat also
If I could have any of them with a 20 inch barrel , vent rib and screw in chokes any of the 3 I could live with the rest of my life
the 870 offers the option of adding a mag tube extension , that adds more weight yet. but if you need more rounds
honestly a Win 1200 with the same 20 inch vent rib screw in chokes would suit me just fine also.
so solid pump gun with a 20 inch vent rib and chokes that is what fits my use
You will be hard pressed to get a general consensus here. Many guys have the best shotgun ever but have had less rounds through it in 50 years than other guys shoot in one year. It's all objective
Winchester Model 12. I have over two dozen of them. Been shooting them for over 57 years. The oldest is a 1919 two barrel set, the newest is a 1972 Y Model Skeet. In all those years and thousands of rounds, hunting, trap, skeet, and sporting clays I have only broken one firing pin. Pretty reliable I'ld say.
I really like my Berettas (A300 Ultima, A400 Xcel, A400 Xtreme +, 694, and 687) and have a few with over 10K rounds through them with out a hitch, but if I could just have one it would be an old reliable Remington 870 or a Winchester model 12. Both very low maintenance, ultra reliable, and do not require the cleaning/lube to maintain like an auto loader.
I do have a Winchester 1200 that my dad bought me second hand many years ago for $100 that has not let me down.
Older model 1100. I have had mine for almost 50 years, shot countless shells through it and only replaced the seals once. It has been dropped in the muck banged around behind the seat in my truck and generally abused but keeps on ticking.
Yep the Express models in the 870 were the ones that got cheap.and I should have stated that ...I think the 870 Wingmaster is a different model anyway?
Winchester Model 12. I have over two dozen of them. Been shooting them for over 57 years. The oldest is a 1919 two barrel set, the newest is a 1972 Y Model Skeet. In all those years and thousands of rounds, hunting, trap, skeet, and sporting clays I have only broken one firing pin. Pretty reliable I'ld say.
Yup,,Winchester Model 12 gets my vote.
I had one and liked it. Had the key word. It fired once when I closed the action while running shells through unloading it. Nothing was near the trigger. It went down the road to someone that didn't seem to care about my experience with it.
I have mostly 870s I think 4 of them, various old doubles, and a 590 a1 Mariner. They all work I tend to grab my 870 Lt 20 or the savage 311. That old beat up broke down mismatched 311 fits me the best and point like pointing my finger. That what I currently are they the best not by a long shot but they work.I have I have had many others over the years and got ride of them for various reasons.
If I could have only one? That does not even compute and is crazy talk!!!!
Depends on what you mean by "best". Various applications. I have many thousands of rounds through my Winchester SXP. It's a tough gun. It'll drop more ducks than that double barrel guaranteed. I don't have a double barrel because it's not the best for my application.
Lot of good ones mentioned here. I think much of it depends on what you use them for. I own 2 Wingmasters, a Winchester model 12, but my go to shotgun for coyotes is my Benelli Super Black Eagle. The model 12 action is much harder to work than the .870
I've never owned a 21 but I have owned a Parker GHE 20 gauge, a couple A.H. Fox Sterlingworth's, an L.C. Smith or two and a couple Ithaca's. Those were all great American shotguns. The finest my meager means have been able to afford was a WJ Jeffery in 28 gauge. A fine British double makes an American made shotgun feel like a club. There's just no comparison.
Posco I’m jealous, for elegance and pointability the British had it.
Got me hankering for a new gun. The only thing I own now is an Ithaca Flues in twenty gauge. It works but it's not the grouse slayer the Parker was. Me thirty years ago with my dog and Parker.
Yep the Express models in the 870 were the ones that got cheap.and I should have stated that ...I think the 870 Wingmaster is a different model anyway?
Same model...The 870 Express has a cheaper wood, fit and finish, but the internals are the same...You can use polishing compound, or after much use they become just as slick as the Wingmaster.
I view the 870 as the AK- 47 of shotguns, dual action bars, steel receiver, and great design makes them flawlessly dependable.
In a semi-auto, The Benelli M-1 Super 90 inertia driven spring recoil action is the AK-47 of semi-auto shotguns, IMO...Police Departments love both the 870 and M-1 Super 90 for very good reasons.
I'd have to say the Rem. 870 for overall, but I have a LeFever Nitro Special double that took a beating by my Grandfather, Father and myself, shooting truckloads of game with it and never a glitch. Awesome gun.
The good old 870, name another gun you can use as a paddle to get to your duck hole, shoot a limit, and paddle back out again. Then without question, grab it from behind the seat and shoot some roosters a couple weeks later. They just plain work. Not pretty, just functional and reliable!
Mossberg Model 500 Voted in the top 20 of shotguns a well priced working mans gun reliable affordable and the parts interchange own 5 of them.
That would be a contender however the safeties are prone to breaking right through the screw hole. When that happens the ball and detent spring are typically lost too. Someone does/did make an aluminum replacement for them.
Mossberg Model 500 Voted in the top 20 of shotguns a well priced working mans gun reliable affordable and the parts interchange own 5 of them.
That would be a contender however the safeties are prone to breaking right through the screw hole. When that happens the ball and detent spring are typically lost too. Someone does/did make an aluminum replacement for them.
Never liked that safety location either. Hard to get used to after shooting a Remington for most of my life. A case can certainly be made for the Ithica 37. However, for me the best shotgun wouldn't have a plastic stock or just one barrel.
What I do like about the 500 safety is you can easily see its location when a kid is carrying it or its sitting in a blind. Also nice to have as a spare because the safety is ambidextrous. I have heard a lot about the safety breaking but it has never happened to me. I did have one of the old metal ones freeze up on me when packed with snow once.
As far as best shotgun ever made??? I could never pick one. Old 870s and 500s, 1100, Mod 12, A-5 (even though I cant hit with them) all have special places in my heart.
Thank you Strut for your wisdom in this world of ignorance. First, if the shotgun is plastic, synthetic or any of that other nonsense it’s not even up for consideration. Second, most sold does not equal greatness. Third, if it’s under 30 yrs old we can’t even discuss. I own and enjoy shooting all the above, calm down. However- The 21 is greatness incarnate. American made, beautiful, tuff as nails and a SxS. Others up for debate include Parkers, Foxes, Lefevers and LC’s. I’ll grant the Win model 12, Browning A5 and it’s twin Remington model 11 also have a leg to stand on. The Browning BSS is in there as well. Not enough room to discuss the British makes. Thanks for the pic of a classic where it belongs-on the hunt.
I've never owned a 21 but I have owned a Parker GHE 20 gauge, a couple A.H. Fox Sterlingworth's, an L.C. Smith or two and a couple Ithaca's. Those were all great American shotguns. The finest my meager means have been able to afford was a WJ Jeffery in 28 gauge. A fine British double makes an American made shotgun feel like a club. There's just no comparison.
Thanks for the kind words, fellers !!
Of my two Model 21's, my favorite to hunt with is the 16 gauge. I picked the 12 as "best" due to the wide range of loads available.
Here's a link if you want to learn a little about what a Model 21 really is:
Here's the excerpt from the above link that explains what sets the Winchester Model 21 apart from the rest:
"The Model 21 represents the pinnacle of American shotgun design, and it is built of the finest steel ever used in a double gun. Unlike other double guns, whose frames were made from case hardened steel, Model 21 frames were machined from a heat-treated cro-moly steel forging. This is why they have a blue finish instead of a color case finish. Model 21 frames are approximately twice as strong as a similar case-hardened frame. The frame is also comparatively long, which contributes to the overall strength of the gun by increasing the leverage of the underbolt that holds the barrels to the action.
The Model 21 uses special chopper-lump type barrels made from heat-treated chrome molybdenum alloy steel. These barrels have lumps that are designed to be dovetailed together, then pinned and soldered with soft solder composed of half tin and half lead. This process avoids the high temperature brazing required with normal chopper-lump (or inferior types of) barrel construction. It results in barrels at least twice as strong as normal double gun barrels.
In his Shotgun Book, Jack O'Connor said he had never seen a Model 21 shot loose. He considered the Model 21's dovetailed barrel construction to be superior in strength, and wrote that the Model 21's frame was made of the best material ever put in a shotgun. He wrote, "I believe the Model 21 Winchester double is probably the strongest, most rugged, and most trouble free double ever made."
This opinion was born out by the results of the famous Winchester proof load test. To promote the gun when it was introduced, Winchester went to great lengths to demonstrate the gun's safety, strength and durability.
Winchester purchased a selection of top brand double guns, which included all of the other famous American brands, for a "test to destruction." The technicians at Winchester fired violent proof ("blue pill") loads in all of the guns until they broke or blew up. None of the guns survived more than 305 of these "blue pill" proof loads, except the Model 21. It successfully fired 2,000 of these 150% pressure proof loads without any kind of failure, at which point the test was stopped and the gun torn down. Absolutely no discernible wear or change of dimension had occurred. This gun was featured in Winchester advertisements, photographed with the pile of 2,000 fired proof load hulls behind it.
In another test, Winchester technicians fired a standard 1 1/8 oz 12 gauge field load in a Model 21 with the top lever and locking bolt removed. The gun was safely held closed merely by ordinary hand pressure."
for the 500 safeties NDZ makes one doesn't look like promag makes the steel one any longer the NDZ performance is an aluminum where the promag was steel but same shape and the NDZ comes ith an allen screw to replace the goofy "tam[er resistant" Mossberg screw.
If I had to go live in the wilderness and live of the land and take only one gun and it had to last a lifetime it would without a doubt be a Remington 12 guage wingmaster. I got my Dad's from the 60s I believe and my Wingmaster magnum I bought in 89.
I agree with what Hawker and Strut said. The 21 is amazing, I never owned one but shot them. The best pump, Model 12 but the Model 42 was sweet too. The older Wingmasters run a good 2nd, the ole man had a pigeon grade 12 ga. It was sweet. I had a 16ga, loved that gun.
In my youth I won 5 shoots in a row at a local turkey shoot and it caused a big ole bruhaha, borderline donnybrook. The guys that ran the shoot came over in haste to check my shotgun cause no way a kid could win 5 in a row. They ask to see my gun and I handed them a Model 12(Dad's), a Wingmaster 12ga, also Dad's), a Ithaca 37(my brothers), and my 870 16ga. Guys stood up and said we seen the kid shoot all of those so they were like well, alrighty then, good shootin kid.
My point is, there were a lot of great guns made back in the day, just like everything else, older is better. Nothing American made will ever have the class and durability of the older ones. I would own a new Mossberg, but that's it.
If I were to get a new Remington for a gift, I'd trade it for a Monkey, then I'd shoot the Monkey.
I'd think you'd want to know what they use in Argentina for their pigeon and duck shoots, many thousands of rounds ought to separate the good ones from the bomb proof ones.
I'd think you'd want to know what they use in Argentina for their pigeon and duck shoots, many thousands of rounds ought to separate the good ones from the bomb proof ones.
Beretta 20 gauges. My next gun will be a beretta 20 gauge though benelli almost had me with their ultralight.
Take a Beretta and Benelli and throw them in a pond. After a week fish each one out and see who can hunt and who can’t. If my life depended on an autoloader then I’m picking the Benelli, lol. Seen too many Beretta’s jam up in extreme cold. Plus I can field strip my Benelli in the actual field and clean it with no issues.
I hunted with two guys. One had a Parker and the other a Benelli. They both unloaded their 12 gauges on a pheasant. When they were done, I dropped him with my Remington 1100 20 gauge.
That may be, but I've seen multiple problems with the Benellis in the goose pits... All those rabid Benelli owners ended up buying something else, ALL of them....but like always,YMMV...
What issues and what models? Mines going on 15 years now without a hiccup. I’ll admit the bluing is fading out on the barrel from hunting salt water, but other than that she goes BOOM every time a shell is in the chamber and I pull the trigger. I could really say the same for the Beretta I had, except it went full auto, lol. Got it fixed by an “approved gunsmith” to only happen again. Sent it back to Beretta and bought a Benelli while waiting for it to come back. They decided my claim was the actual truth and sent me a brand new gun. I sold it and never looked back.
These all fit well, point well, shoot well, are reliable, and are great looking. 1933 Winchester 12 ga Heavy Duck Gun 30 barrel. 1980 Remington 1100 12 ga 3” magnum 28” barrel. 1981 Remington 1100 12 ga LH slug gun. 1986 Ruger Red Label 12 gauge 28” barrels.
The Browning A-5 is a classic waterfowl gun that unfortunately I have never owned.
The gray Beretta Extrema wins the butt ugly club stock award. It may be reliable, but so is a rock. I bought the gun as suggested by my son who has one. He said it is the best shotgun ever made. Well I have never”bonded” with the gun. For waterfowl hunting my 1100 does the job nicely and looks good with a black lab.
Edited to correct the gun manufacturer. Shows how little I like the gun!
These all fit well, point well, shoot well, are reliable, and are great looking. 1933 Winchester Heavy Duck Gun 30 barrel. 1980 Remington 1100 3” magnum 28” barrel. 1981 Remington 1100 LH slug gun. 1986 Ruger Red Label 12 gauge 28” barrels.
The gray Benelli Extrema wins the butt ugly club stock award. It may be reliable, but so is a rock.
I don’t believe Benelli makes an Extrema…think that’s Beretta.
I’ve shouldered every autoloader out there. And by shouldered I mean close my eyes and bring it up to my shoulder and cheek and open my eyes and see where my eyes are in relation to the barrel. Only two “fit” me…Benelli and the Browning A5. My buddy bought an A5 and couldn’t hit cardboard at 30 yards, lol.
I guided up in Canada for many yrs. All my clients would bring the Beretta or Benelli and about the 3rd day they turned into 1300.00 single shots. I shot a Remington 1100 and can truly say I never had a jam up in all the yrs up there.
Best shotgun made is between a 870 Wingmaster and 1100.
I opened up the gas port on my 1100 about .010 and shoot trap load all the time clear up to any 3 inch shell.
Should have known better than to open this thread. Spent the last hour looking for an A. H. Fox 20 gauge and I think I found one. An Elhew pointer can't be far behind.
Should have known better than to open this thread. Spent the last hour looking for an A. H. Fox 20 gauge and I think I found one. An Elhew pointer can't be far behind.
Looks like a great choice to me. I'm looking for a SxS 20ga myself but I can't afford that one. lol I'd also love an 1100 in .410 bore.
I believe they were Black Eagles? several problems were the click instead of bang, cold weather cycling, a few other minor things I can't remember. Some was probably operator error, but there were enough problems for these guys to bail on them. Never had or shot a Benelli, I use my old Remington 11-87 that's been used and abused with the only thing needed was a replacement recoil spring. OLD is the operative word, the newer ones were not holding up.
I hunted with two guys. One had a Parker and the other a Benelli. They both unloaded their 12 gauges on a pheasant. When they were done, I dropped him with my Remington 1100 20 gauge.
That doesn't say anything about the guns,,just the shooters.
On the Benelli's you want the M-1 inertia driven spring recoil action for the best dependability, the later models rely on bled gas to cycle, and do kick less, but again you lose the dependability.
To the previous poster who said above that the Remington 1100 was more dependable than a Benelli....Guarantee you it wasn't a M-1.
Shot huge crow roost flyways for years where shotguns are truly punished on high volume 500 + bird shoots, and just one of these shoots will provide more feedback than most will see in a lifetime of waterfowl hunting.
Remington 870 is king, with the Benelli M-1 a close second.
Should have known better than to open this thread. Spent the last hour looking for an A. H. Fox 20 gauge and I think I found one. An Elhew pointer can't be far behind.
Looks like a great choice to me. I'm looking for a SxS 20ga myself but I can't afford that one. lol I'd also love an 1100 in .410 bore.
I believe they were Black Eagles? several problems were the click instead of bang, cold weather cycling, a few other minor things I can't remember. Some was probably operator error, but there were enough problems for these guys to bail on them. Never had or shot a Benelli, I use my old Remington 11-87 that's been used and abused with the only thing needed was a replacement recoil spring. OLD is the operative word, the newer ones were not holding up.
I had an 1187 for about a month. The rubber O rings kept splitting and jamming the action. I sold that thing. However, I'm a fan of the older Mag 1100s
Should have known better than to open this thread. Spent the last hour looking for an A. H. Fox 20 gauge and I think I found one. An Elhew pointer can't be far behind.
Looks like a great choice to me. I'm looking for a SxS 20ga myself but I can't afford that one. lol I'd also love an 1100 in .410 bore.
Have you looked at the new CZ g2’s? Ive been u decided between a 20 and a 28. Pretty cheap and light plus you get 5 chokes. For me they shoulder like a dream.
I’ve shouldered every autoloader out there. And by shouldered I mean close my eyes and bring it up to my shoulder and cheek and open my eyes and see where my eyes are in relation to the barrel. Only two “fit” me…Benelli and the Browning A5. My buddy bought an A5 and couldn’t hit cardboard at 30 yards, lol.
In basic training a fella had a flinch he couldn't kick. When I left on the bus he was in formation with his THIRD platoon in basic training because of a flin ch he couldn't kick.
I hunted with two guys. One had a Parker and the other a Benelli. They both unloaded their 12 gauges on a pheasant. When they were done, I dropped him with my Remington 1100 20 gauge.
That doesn't say anything about the guns,,just the shooters.
Have you looked at the new CZ g2’s? Ive been u decided between a 20 and a 28. Pretty cheap and light plus you get 5 chokes. For me they shoulder like a dream.
Just read a write-up Criag Boddington did on them and they look like a great little gun.
Looks like a great choice to me. I'm looking for a SxS 20ga myself but I can't afford that one. lol I'd also love an 1100 in .410 bore.
Have you looked at the new CZ g2’s? Ive been u decided between a 20 and a 28. Pretty cheap and light plus you get 5 chokes. For me they shoulder like a dream.
I have the 28. Hoping for a cheaper one I'm less likely to cry if I get it scratched up. My boy shooting the .28...
Not on par with “great or best” but has anyone shot or even own a Charles Daly 20ga? Tempted to get one and turn it into a dedicated turkey gun. Right now I have youth 870 that is a killer. Just fancying an autoloader.
The one that is consistently good mechanically, quality, performance, reliability, perform in accuracy, (at least as good as you or better), and what YOU can afford and what YOU feel comfortable and confident using! . . . pretty wood and engravings and $$$$ etc. mean nothing.
The Benelli M-2 is inertia driven spring recoil action. The spring is in the stock. That was the jammingest shotgun I ever shot. I tried a Super 90 and was told they never jam. It jammed the first shot, so I never shot it again. After I replace the spring in the stock with a stiffer spring the M-2 worked. The gun was new and did not work 15-20 cases of shells later it was better, but still jammed to much. I am not a Benelli fan.
The one that is consistently good mechanically, quality, performance, reliability, perform in accuracy, (at least as good as you or better), and what YOU can afford and what YOU feel comfortable and confident using! . . . pretty wood and engravings and $$$$ etc. mean nothing.
definitely
you could set the bar in a bunch of ways , gun that will take the most proof loads without coming out of spec , but if it weights 10 pounds and you're carrying 10 miles to the round you shoot it may not be the best.
if you shoot trap 5 flights a week 40 weeks a year and the gun goes from trunk to range 10 yards away weight and long sight radius is probably right for you you still don;t need a magnum chamber for trap loads.
so what is right for you and your use , while also being durable , reparable and fit you better to have a gun ugly as sing that fits you than a gold plated super duper grade that doesn't fit you.
I have two 870's, one from the late 1960's and one about 15 years old. Have the same problem with both of them: they will not cycle buckshot up from the magazine. Birdshot is no problem, shoot, pump and shoot again. Buckshot is a problem, shoot pump and click, shell either stays in magazine or drops out the bottom. I have taken them apart many times, cleaned them and reassembled still not work. Have had both to 2 different gunsmiths, they replaced different parts and still no fix. The newer gun I have never shot slugs thru but the older 870 will not cycle them either.
I have two 870's, one from the late 1960's and one about 15 years old. Have the same problem with both of them: they will not cycle buckshot up from the magazine. Birdshot is no problem, shoot, pump and shoot again. Buckshot is a problem, shoot pump and click, shell either stays in magazine or drops out the bottom. I have taken them apart many times, cleaned them and reassembled still not work. Have had both to 2 different gunsmiths, they replaced different parts and still no fix. The newer gun I have never shot slugs thru but the older 870 will not cycle them either.
even different brands of buckshot ? that seems very strange is it 2 3/4 buck in a 3 inch chamber?
this sounds like high recoiling loads jump the shell stop
as a test load a trap load in the chamber and a round of buck then a trap/target load in the tube so that the buck will be the last round out if it cycles trap , trap , buck then try trap , trap , buck ,trap and see if that last round of trap won't feed. I would figure it being more likely to be the round after a high recoiling load.
if you load it full then cycle all the rounds out on the ground (not shooting )does it cycle them all fine ?
when you load rounds in the tube do you push them in a half inch or so past the stop then let them come back ?
do other people have the same problem when they shoot the guns ?
REM 870 wingmaster. Had 3 barrels and had a hasting barrel.that was before screw in chokes. Hunted everything with it. Wore it out and then purchased a browning A 500. Worst gun they ever made. Shot it to pieces in 10 years. Was a waterfowl hunter. Got all my money back from Browning looking back I wore the tool out but browning stood behind it then got a Beretta silver mallard that one of my grandkids will get but I would have to say the 870 was close to being the best pump I ever owned.
Well thank to Wanna Be for correcting my mixup on the manufacturer. I edited my earlier post. It shows how little I like the gun.
The gray Beretta Extrema wins the butt ugly club stock award. It may be reliable, but so is a rock. I bought the gun as suggested by my adult son who has one. He said it is the best shotgun ever made. Well I have never “bonded” with the gun. For waterfowl hunting my 1100 does the job nicely and looks good with a black lab.
My son said this gun is so reliable it never needs cleaning. Then I hunted most of a season without cleaning it. My son said I was neglecting a great gun. One day while standing in knee deep water with my lab I told my son that I decided to clean my shotgun. Then I dunked it and swished it around in the water. Poured out the excess and said there it is clean! He gagged about my disdain for the gun.
My Ruger Red Label is the ultimate for pheasant hunting.
However without a lab I have no interest in hunting either waterfowl or pheasants. A garage full of decoys, blinds and other gear sits idle. After 35 years of black labs I cannot get used to life without them. A muzzle nudging my hand and a tail thumping against my leg is always missing.
I can't say for sure if it's the best shotgun ever made but I really like my old Model 31 Remington.
Ha, I was going to make the same reply figuring mine would be the only one.
My Remington model 31 20 gauge pump's been shooting true for 90+ years now.
Only shotgun I've owned since I was 10 years old. Love it so much I never even considered shopping for another one.
Until the past year, when 20ga ammo became scarce. Been debating between buying another Rem model 31 in 12 gauge or branching out and buying a Win model 12, which the Rem 31 was modeled after.
Shot huge crow roost flyways for years where shotguns are truly punished on high volume 500 + bird shoots, and just one of these shoots will provide more feedback than most will see in a lifetime of waterfowl hunting.
I like Rem1100s. Especially like the LT 20 I got for my grandson.
I had a LT20 1100, nice gun, was very dependable but as far as a 20 ga light weight, it isn't, its a pig.
I shot one a few times, it was extremely picky on feeding factory ammo. If the crimp end of the shell was not perfect in every way it would fail to cycle and become a single shot. Pretty frustrating on when shooting doves.
Shot huge crow roost flyways for years where shotguns are truly punished on high volume 500 + bird shoots, and just one of these shoots will provide more feedback than most will see in a lifetime of waterfowl hunting.
Did you ever shoot Fort Cobb, OK?
No Sir... But did shoot the remnant flocks of the Ft. Cobb roost in nearby areas...As you probably know, Ft.Cobb peaked in the 60's & 70's before the roost was broke up, and the crows relocated.
My midwest crow shooting partner hunted the Ft. Cobb roost many times and said you had to get out 20 miles from the roost because the birds were so darn wild.
Also said the crows would come back into the roost very high, then circle directly downward to avoid hunters shooting just outside the roost.
Dad had a Remington Model 31 in 12ga. You could literally hold down the release with one finger and push the gun up and pull it back down quick with one hand to eject the spent shell and reload a new one in the chamber. I wish I still had that gun. It was full choke and none of them wussy butt pads.
The only surprising answer that kept coming up was the model 12.
I don't know how long the model 12 was made, but there is a lot of them out there. I know a guy that has a safe full of them in various gauges and grades. Some of them he uses and some are pretty rare and I assume valuable collector guns.
I have a Winchester Model 140. I got it for Christmas a month before I turned 12 years old. I remember being a little disappointed because my best friend got a Remington 1100 that same Christmas. I look back now and realize I was lucky to get that because we were POOR! I have shot just about everything in Georgia with that 12ga. I still have it and take it out once maybe twice a season and shoot doves with it. I did buy me an aftermarket choke for it and my best hunt last year was 15 dove with 23 shells. After the hunt she’s always cleaned up and put back in the safe. I’m 54 now and got it when I was 11, she’s been a good one!
Dad had a Remington Model 31 in 12ga. You could literally hold down the release with one finger and push the gun up and pull it back down quick with one hand to eject the spent shell and reload a new one in the chamber. I wish I still had that gun. It was full choke and none of them wussy butt pads.
Years ago I remember hearing that the Mod. 31 was sometimes called the "Ball Bearing Repeater" because the action was so smooth and worked so easily.
When my dad passed, he owned 5 shotguns. His original model 31 in 16 gauge with full choke.......and four 1100's. He bought the first 1100 when I came along and needed a shotgun.......so 31 was issued to me. I later moved up to my grandfather's Win 24.........and got pretty good with that.......at age 15, came home one day with 2 frozen turkeys won at a turkey shoot. Last guy that missed won a turkey. That was me.......twice in three tries. But a 28 inch barrels full and mod is not a close quarters quail gun. Found that out one day when a quail I shot hit the ground in 2 pieces. Front half......and back half. So upgraded to the one and only shotgun i ever bought........an 870 Wingmaster. That was 50 years ago, and haven't needed anything else since.
I'm not sure if this applies to others, but in my experience, if you are a pump gun guy, you are a pump gun guy. I started with that 31, so pumping is as natural to me as breathing....as is catching the empty to put in my vest pocket to reload. To me, shooting an auto is distracting. I pause to think about it, then resume thinking about what targets are left. With a pump......it is a reflex action. My eye and thought never breaks from the targets. Same for shooting a double with two triggers. Switching triggers is a reflex you never think about.......as is selection of first shot to begin with. If target is at full choke range.........you instinctively go to the back trigger.
Cannot believe you sold the Jeffrey, in 28 gauge no less!
Just out of curiosity, I checked Guns International to see if they might have a listing for a Jeffery in 28 gauge. They do. Same gun I owned but with 28" tubes, mine had 27" barrels. $14,995.00.
Dad had a Remington Model 31 in 12ga. You could literally hold down the release with one finger and push the gun up and pull it back down quick with one hand to eject the spent shell and reload a new one in the chamber. I wish I still had that gun. It was full choke and none of them wussy butt pads.
Years ago I remember hearing that the Mod. 31 was sometimes called the "Ball Bearing Repeater" because the action was so smooth and worked so easily.
The one he had certainly was. He was an excellent shot with it as well. Just like his Winchester 74 in 22lr, if it went off, it meant I was going to retrieve something, lol.
I'm sure I'll get some hate for this... but I've had great success and made a lot of memories between my old (1970s) Mossberg 500 and Mossberg 935. Granted I don't fire 1,000 rounds a year through my shotguns but I've abused them a fair bit and they come back for more. I had a "modern" 870 and had issues with it (also couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it because it did not fit me well). I sold it to my brother after buying the 935 and now we are both happy LOL. Not sure if it's because I'm 6'4"+ but the Mossbergs just seem to fit me out of the box. I have also tried some of the Turkish guns (imported under different brand names here) and have been somewhat impressed but I am not sure what the maintenance will be like on them after 5 seasons so I'm nervous to try them out myself (want a 20 ga. semi to pass down to the kids in a few years)
Nothing wrong with a Mossberg, a lot of this is just preference /what flavor ice cream stuff that will never matter to 99% of shooters.
If a shotgun fits you, and you like its performance, that's your scattergun.
A good wingshooter can get by with about any of them in a pinch, but when you get all the variables right, it's like an extension of your eyes and arms.
I inherited a Charles Daley 20 ga. o/u from my father. Nice little gun that carries well and although I have not shot it much I do like it so far. I also have 2 Winchester 101's, a 12 and a 20, a Remington Peerless 12 ga., 2 870's in 12 and 20 and an old Fulton 12 ga. sxs. They all shoot good.
I inherited a Charles Daley 20 ga. o/u from my father. Nice little gun that carries well and although I have not shot it much I do like it so far. I also have 2 Winchester 101's, a 12 and a 20, a Remington Peerless 12 ga., 2 870's in 12 and 20 and an old Fulton 12 ga. sxs. They all shoot good.
That old Fulton was probly made by Hunter Arms Corp. They made L.C.Smith guns here where I live in Fulton N.Y. form the late 1800s till the 1950s.I believe they made three different side by sides.The "Hunter Special",,the "Fulton Special" named after our town and of course the "L.C.Smiths".
There was a time during my early 30's that for reason, I got this notion that I really ought to own a Winchester 23.........in 28 gauge. Proper quail gun and all that. Went so far as to travel to Walls Grocery in Blairstown.......and sure enough............John had a stack of about 10 of them.......all new and in the box. Picked thru those marked "pigeon grade" to get a nice stock.......laid it on the counter and asked how much? $2,800. Ouch. In my mind I had been thinking $800 - $900. So ever so gently laid it back down on the counter so as to not put a scratch on it and slowly backed away.......then slithered out the door with tail tucked between my legs. A blow to one's ego to find out you are not "pigeon grade" worthy.
Cannot believe you sold the Jeffrey, in 28 gauge no less!
Just out of curiosity, I checked Guns International to see if they might have a listing for a Jeffery in 28 gauge. They do. Same gun I owned but with 28" tubes, mine had 27" barrels. $14,995.00.
Dang! Sounds about right. Also, as this thread has went on I’m astounded at the folks who are willing to show their ignorance. Bout par for the course with this crew.
My first new out of the box shotgun was in 1966 and it was a 870 Wing Master in 12 gauge. It was purchased with muskrat and mink Pelt money from trapping before and after school. I just finished writing a story about the gun and it's history with me and my family and will be in one of the trapping magazines hopefully. The gun never failed me or my son and will be passed on to the grandson.
That Fulton has 30 barrels and the full choke has the tightest pattern of any gun I've shot.
They have a Collector show for all them Hunter Arms guns every year here in my town.This years was last weekend. L.C.Smiths were " The Gun " back in the day. They were named "The Gun That Speaks For Itself "
My first new out of the box shotgun was in 1966 and it was a 870 Wing Master in 12 gauge. It was purchased with muskrat and mink Pelt money from trapping before and after school. I just finished writing a story about the gun and it's history with me and my family and will be in one of the trapping magazines hopefully. The gun never failed me or my son and will be passed on to the grandson.
I have yet to buy a new shotgun
lots of them for sale when the state went rifle and dropped the shotgun zones only a few townships left that are shotgun only.
bought my first one in a guys garage who had advertised on the bulletin board at my moms work. I was 14 handed over my cash for a Rem Model 12A
it is a very good gun I shot a lot of deer with that gun it shot slugs very well from a modified choke barrel
if you don't remember the 12A it is a plain stocked , no frills no engraving 1100 in 12ga , they did the 12A and 12P for a couple years before they dropped the 12A and Made the 12P a 870 express for it's marketing name.
went for a haircut once and came home with a M37 I also got a haircut
No Sir... But did shoot the remnant flocks of the Ft. Cobb roost in nearby areas...As you probably know, Ft.Cobb peaked in the 60's & 70's before the roost was broke up, and the crows relocated.
I was lucky enough to get in on it in the early 70's. They estimated 8 to 10 million birds. Was something to see. I visited Ft.Cobb 2 years ago and not one person knew what I was talking about when I mentioned the crow roost.
I'm sure I'll get some hate for this... but I've had great success and made a lot of memories between my old (1970s) Mossberg 500 and Mossberg 935. Granted I don't fire 1,000 rounds a year through my shotguns but I've abused them a fair bit and they come back for more. I had a "modern" 870 and had issues with it (also couldn't hit the broadside of a barn with it because it did not fit me well). I sold it to my brother after buying the 935 and now we are both happy LOL. Not sure if it's because I'm 6'4"+ but the Mossbergs just seem to fit me out of the box. I have also tried some of the Turkish guns (imported under different brand names here) and have been somewhat impressed but I am not sure what the maintenance will be like on them after 5 seasons so I'm nervous to try them out myself (want a 20 ga. semi to pass down to the kids in a few years)
Id take a mberg 500 over any remington shotgun ALL DAY. Wingmasters are pretty and 870’s were a dime a dozen but both fit me like crap. My first was a 500, nothing fancy. Then a 500 crown grade and i killed a LOT of pheasants with that the 6 or so years i had it during high school/part of college. Throw in a random ugly camo’d 835 and now my only mossberg is a “tactical turkey”. Factory choke loves 3.5 inch supreme 6’s and ive killed a lot of turkeys with it. I will say the pistol grip and the top tang safety are a dumb combo.
What was said that was ignorant? Makes you sound elitest....
I think/hope he meant as in a lack of knowledge, not as in stupid or unsophisticated. I was a hard-core grouse hunter who lived in New England and the classic grouse gun was the side by side and those were the guns I sought after. I was lucky to own some very nice doubles. I also owned Mossberg bolt actions and a pile of old Steven's single shots.
No one really defined what "best" meant. If you have the coin, you can drop twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollars or more on a "best" shotgun. I hunted with plenty of guys who used Rugers and/or 1100s. I was a blue-collar guy who bought the best classic doubles he could afford. None of them would have been my first choice in a duck blind.
What was said that was ignorant? Makes you sound elitest....
I think/hope he meant as in a lack of knowledge, not as in stupid or unsophisticated. I was a hard-core grouse hunter who lived in New England and the classic grouse gun was the side by side and those were the guns I sought after. I was lucky to own some very nice doubles. I also owned Mossberg bolt actions and a pile of old Steven's single shots.
No one really defined what "best" meant. If you have the coin, you can drop twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollars or more on a "best" shotgun. I hunted with plenty of guys who used Rugers and/or 1100s. I was a blue-collar guy who bought the best classic doubles he could afford. None of them would have been my first choice in a duck blind.
Well being Hawker never replied, I'll chalk it up to a bit of day drinkin lol. That's ok, he should have explained though...
No one really defined what "best" meant. If you have the coin, you can drop twenty, thirty, forty thousand dollars or more on a "best" shotgun. I hunted with plenty of guys who used Rugers and/or 1100s. I was a blue-collar guy who bought the best classic doubles he could afford. None of them would have been my first choice in a duck blind.
The original post was left ambiguous on purpose, I was mainly curious what everyone preffered and wanted to know what I may be missing out on.
I’ll see if I can find the pic of $150K leaning against the side of the wagon…2 Boss Shotguns, lol.
I
Oh I know there’s other expensive guns out there, but when the owner of Boss flys over to hunt for a week, I don’t think he’s going to use anyone else’s shotguns.
If we wanted to be objective about it I think we need to start with what shotgun(s) have been made the longest. For pump shotguns that leaves us with the Ithaca 37. From my understanding it’s hardly a competition for longevity. If we focused on automatics then the Browning Auto-5 would be the winner. Again, the competition doesn’t start to hold a candle to it in terms of years produced. I don’t know about doubles so for now, the definitive answer is:
I carried a 20 gauge pump 870 Wingmaster during the 1970's I t was a well made gun .When the Ruger Red label was introduced in the late 1970's I got one of them .It was not cheap I paid $600.00 for it in 1980 .That was and still is a lot of money to me .. I put a lot of miles on my legs while carrying those 2 guns . I enjoyed both of them .But the Ruger was a much nicer pheasant hunting gun
If we wanted to be objective about it I think we need to start with what shotgun(s) have been made the longest. For pump shotguns that leaves us with the Ithaca 37. From my understanding it’s hardly a competition for longevity. If we focused on automatics then the Browning Auto-5 would be the winner. Again, the competition doesn’t start to hold a candle to it in terms of years produced. I don’t know about doubles so for now, the definitive answer is:
Ithaca 37 and Browning Auto-5
it is the longest made , was it continuous? if the company went bankrupt and was sold a few times. and there is a early model slam fire and late model with a different trigger & sear with dis-connector. the total units remain around 2 million over all those years
the 870 and 500 are newer but are running around 11 million units each the Remington 870 was made 1950 till 2020 . Can we count the Rem Arms guns as the same thing? if they are the same thing then is the pardner pump also an 870 it was imported by Rem.
no question the M37 is a great gun , it has it's issues also , the butt stock to receiver connection being the biggest weakness.
For a volume shooter, my definition of "best" is the most reliable repeater pump or semi-auto that will handle water, dust, fouling, etc. and stay in the game without cleaning or repairing until the shooting is done.
Other important attributes are fit, balance, availability of parts, availability of ammo, long life, durability, etc.
that is just it best is very objective and what makes this discussion so interesting. must be we are page 8 many people have different needs and one of those needs might be not costing more than 2 weeks groceries.
people are also built different weight can also be a factor
versatility does it go well from duck blind to pheasant field to deer stand and still pull chicken coop noise in the night duties
for my grandpa the answer always was the M37 it was the only gun he had , I have one but my M37 is 3rd in line for those duties
I’m an A5 man . Got five 12 gauge, two 20s, and just picked up a 16 for a wedding present for my son. I love to shoot trap with folks that have guns costing three times the price of my Brownings.
Sorry so late. Sadly no day drinking. Yes elitist may be the term. No one gives a crap about an 870, 500 or any other dime a dozen shotgun. Why? We all have one or had one. Shucks I’ve 2 or 3 of each. I own or have shot pretty much every shotgun mentioned literally. Still have them. From the 97 clear up to them plastic ones that always seem to start with a B. Not, I heard this or a buddy says that, or I read once. My father is a gun nut particular to shotguns. Has been my whole life and I got it bad. Lest I worry you all too much, know most everything I post is tongue in cheek. As an olive branch for all the terrible examples posted…I ran a box of shells thru a CZ O/U and an 11-87 the other day and almost liked it. Now…about that lever gun thread
My “best” is what has been the best for me. I have put thousands of shells through my SBEII. She may not be “old” like some of the guns mentioned, but she has never failed me. I cleaned her after one trip and pulled out enough mud and sticks to make a brick. She performs no matter what she encounters from light skeet loads to mule kicking 3.5” loads. I’ve killed dove, quail, deer, hogs, squirrels, and whatever else we might have in this State with her. She is a TOOL and nothing more. She has scratches and her bluing is wearing off in spots, yet she keeps performing.
By that same logic, I have a 40+ year old Winchester 140 semi-auto that has done the exact same thing except all with 2.75” loads. She was my first and will be with me and passed on when I die. She was all my parents could afford which means she was cheap, but the fact that she’s still functioning like she did the day I took her out of the box is a testament of how guns used to be made.
I know of some folks that have 5 and 6 figure shotguns that don’t have 50 shells run through them. To them they are the “best” money can buy. To me, “the best”, is a gun that can be put through the worst possible hunting conditions and still function.
To me, “the best”, is a gun that can be put through the worst possible hunting conditions and still function.
I want a shotgun that is a joy to behold and carry...especially on a slow in the field. I appreciate good fit and finish, one that balances and points well. If it's a grouse gun it should be a 20 gauge with 26" barrels, twin triggers, straight grip and weigh around six pounds. I like tight chokes. I prefer something built in the early 1900s. It can be plain or dressed up.
Camp rules are simple. Feed the dogs, clean you guns and then eat.
I’ll see if I can find the pic of $150K leaning against the side of the wagon…2 Boss Shotguns, lol.
Bought this yesterday and can't wait to get my hands on it. Twenty-eight gauge. The British perfected the side by side in the late eighteen hundreds. This one dates to the 1880s and is in excellent original condition.
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Hoping for a cheaper one I'm less likely to cry if I get it scratched up. My boy shooting the .28...![[Linked Image]](https://trapperman.com/forum/attachments/usergals/2022/08/full-16258-148718-img950173.jpg)
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