Muzzleloaders

I am thinking about taking the coarse and purchasing a muzzleloader. Any suggestions regarding which brand and caliber. Planning for next year moose hunting!
I searched the archives and not much there.

Lots of ways to go! Probably the first thing to decide is if you want to go traditional or with a modern version.

Modern version.

What fun is that ?

Some of the places I have hunted in the past have become muzzle, Bow and Cross bow. So I need to upgrade and fill a tag. Modern just seems easier. Traditional has never interested me. But I asked a question and am open for advice.

You might want to check out the Savage .50 caliber ML10-II…it can handle smokeless powder and that really cuts down on the cleaning. Also available in stainless. I shoot .45 caliber hollow point pistol bullets with sabot. It is easily a 200 yard gun with optics.

I have a TC triumph I quite like. If I was real serious about it I would look into a smokeless one. I debated on it but For my 5 days of use a year I couldn’t justify the extra cost

An inline is the way to go. CVA are cheap

Thank you guys. This is what I need choices and opinions, it’s helpful.

Really like my CVA Accura. Eric

And they're very accurate. I had an Optima and it had as smooth a trigger of any gun I've ever owned.

.50 cal

TC Encore. 50cal Have had one for many years Easy to clean.

Experiment with different powder loads & bullet weights. My CVA can handle up to 150 grains of powder but is more accurate with only 100 grains. If doing only very close range on moose then go 150 grains.

1st moose was farther than I would have liked but did score. Everyone since has been a lot closer and with my physical ability it’s going to be close range or no pull de trigger!

I have a 54 cal CVA side lock that uses caps.
I won as a raffle gun so didn't really pick it out with a plan. If I were going to buy one now. I would go with a 50 cal. I have molds to do my own balls and Conicals for the 54cal.
I don't know about your area but here finding bullets or balls for anything other than the 50cal. Pretty much got to figure to shop online.


Mac

Going looking in a few minutes. That is a whole other matter. Thanks

CVA Optima V2.you can get the nipplebreach, the black horn loose powder breach or the powder pellrt with 209 primer breach. The only problem i had was the powder pellet breach, the flash hole either undersized or whatever. I missed 3 deer because of it last year, despite me cleaning the mess out if it. I drilled it to the next size up, havent has a prob since.

They quit making the ml2. It is further than a 200 yard gun though. I droped my longest deer kill with mine at 302. It's the best of the 3 front stuffers I have. I cut it down for a youth guns several years back when they were still for sale. Kind of wish I had not done that now.

I have had a Thompson center Encore since they came out. Killed lots of deer with it. It was my primary deer gun for over a decade.

Oh boy, traditional traditional traditional. Loose powder iron sights. In-line muzzleloaders are the electric car at a hot rod rally.

what Muzzle loader laws/restrictions does AK have ?

do you need an open ignition like some states out west ?

sabots ? or do you have to run conical?

what can you get for powder ? is real black an option or because everything has to travel by air is 777 going to be the best you get

would you run an optic or irons ?

if you can't run an optic then you want better Irons than the Junk plastic that comes on so many guns shot sights before you shot guns.

X2! I shoot a .50 cal Jadger and a .36 cal Poorboy and they cover just about anything I care to hunt down here. You can keep that modern stuff!

Is Savage still making these?

You might want to check out the Savage .50 caliber ML10-II…it can handle smokeless powder and that really cuts down on the cleaning. Also available in stainless. I shoot .45 caliber hollow point pistol bullets with sabot. It is easily a 200 yard gun with optics.
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They quit making the ml2. It is further than a 200 yard gun though. I droped my longest deer kill with mine at 302. It's the best of the 3 front stuffers I have. I cut it down for a youth guns several years back when they were still for sale. Kind of wish I had not done that now.

I have had a Thompson center Encore since they came out. Killed lots of deer with it. It was my primary deer gun for over a decade. [/quote]

Yes, the ML2 is a beast…it still can be bought on the used market. The clean ability of smokeless powder is what you’re after.

THESE are the question you need to start with STATE specific regs.

I've taken close to.100 deer with MLs, and hunted moose with one once, in ME.

And this has NOTHING to do.with OPs question, but it's my favorite ML pic, Sam Fadala braining a bison in Utah's Henry Mtn herd. Roundball.

For moose hunting, the best is probably the more standard .50 caliber. In-line sealed breech keeps out moisture. Look into the black powder substitutes.

I am very pleased with the in-line Thompson Center X7 Omega stainless steel in .50 caliber. It is different from the standard model. Brown laminated wood stock and a lighter tapered 24” barrel that is fluted in the area below the scope. The barrel is 4” shorter than the standard 28” barrel. I mounted a Leupold 3-9x40 scope on a Leupold base and rings. This gun is approximately 15 years old. It is occasionally available unused condition on Gunbroker.

I would not buy a used black powder muzzleloader because of concern of lack of proper cleaning and a damaged barrel.

Another muzzleloader that has been very good for me is the traditional type Thompson Center Seneca in .45 caliber. It has a percussion cap ignition. It shoots well on 60-80 grains of black powder. I added a peep sight which makes it easier for me to shoot it accurately. Finding one may be difficult and expensive. .45 caliber in black powder is probably too light, or at least less than optimum for a quick kill on a moose.

This right here. I don't know how Alaska is, but most of the muzzleloaders used in the eastern states are not legal for use in muzzleloader only seasons in most of the western states. No western state that I know of allows any optics on a muzzleloader in a muzzleloader only season, all have to have the ignition exposed to the elements (some of the inlines have small hole drilled in them to satisfy this regulation) most don't allow 209 primers and here they outlawed sabots about 15 years ago. Any bullets not pure lead are also not allowed. Before you buy make sure what is legal to hunt with where you plan on hunting. Something to keep in mind is the twist rate varies depending on what you want to shoot. You can pick up muzzleloaders at yard sales around here all day long for $50-100, every one of them has a twist rate suitable for stabilizing sabots, after they made sabots illegal to use in a muzzleloader only season (you can use a muzzleloader decked out however you like in a modern firearms season) they are basically useless because they won't stabilize conicals or roundballs.

I like knight they make a good inline-rifle and have sights available for them. from Williams so you can get a nice peep sight

other manufacturers do also

if you do not have a restriction using 209 they are the way to go easiest to find most reliable ignition

if you do have a 209 restriction or want to be western state compliant the 4 wing musket caps are next best

if you choose to go western state compliant let me know

I have a Knight western state 4 wing musket cap

the knights have timney triggers in them

CVAs can meet all regulations for all 50 states with the different breach plugs.

Just a thought. Can you possibly use a shotgun/slug gun? If its just a meat collector and you can use it it might me aan option. Otherwise I would find a .54 cap lock from track of the wolf.

CVA Accura. Accurate, simple, easy to clean. Breach plug removes easily. I like the white hot pellets and power belt bullets. Great combination in my opinion.

I also own a Savage 10 MLII. Accurate and needs cleaning way less than black powder. If you can find one, you’ll pay dearly! And looks like AK Regs wouldn’t allow smokeless.

John

What evah you get...just make sure it's a .54 for Moose.

Larry, I did similar, and bought a TC Impact. It's .50 cal, and uses .45 bullets, with sabots.
I burn Blackhorn 209 powder, and use 209 shotgun primers.
It is extremely accurate, as I scoped it, but comes with great fiberoptic open sights.
It is certainly a single shot, limited range weapon.
I liked mine so well, I bought another for a loved one.
They get the job done!

Assuming DelawareRob was posting out of Alaska regs, it says you can't use a scope in a muzzleloader only season. I love fiberoptic sights for open sights myself, especially in lowlight and/or fast action situations. Only problem I have with them is the fiberoptic is they're not that tough, I break one on my bear rifle every couple years and end up replacing it. Peep sights are great for pinpoint accuracy, would not run anything else on a iron sighted target rifle, but they lose too much light for me on a hunting rifle. Even tried the ghost ring sight on my bear rifle and went back to the fiber optics, in the open with good light the ghost ring was super fast, but in the brush where light was lower and looking at a dark brown or black bear I found them too slow and if they were far enough away I was using the sights fiber optics were much faster in lower light.

I am continuing on my journey. Got sidetracked picking berries over the weekend! Priorities! You know the old saying Happy……… ……..

Iv had CVA and a Knight Muzzleloader.Now i have a Thompson Center Encore .50 and love it.You can change the barrels out to other caliburs too if you want.Iv killed quite a few deer,a Javalina and couple pigs with it so far.Its about all i carry hunting anymore.

50 is the easiest to feed , most common caliber as long as you can use conicals which it appears AK can.

Hornady great planes bullets pernitrate deep and expand nearly end to end on a deer and that included about 9 inches of spine I had a doe turn and look at me down a trail I shot for the back of her neck dropped a little low and hit just at the tail found that slug all the way to the front with 3 broken ribs.

that was the only one of those I ever recovered all the rest were through and through for obvious reasons that was over 90gr 777 from my NEF huntsman. nice muzzle loader , no longer made it is a 1:28 or 1:30 twist I don't recall now it will shoot round ball but those heavy conicals have some thump basically a 50-90 they are 385 gr they used to make a 410gr and a 54 cal that was heavier yet.

Thompsons are also good had an Omega for a while nothing wrong with it I put a peep sight on the rear and the 4-H program got it for the kids.

I have 2 Knights. They use to have a factory about 10 miles from my house when they were located in Iowa. My older LK-93 was more accurate than the newer DISC rifle. That LK was silly good(I had a classmate that worked there that shot a few and got me a "winner"). I always shot the Red Hot 250 bullet in the DISC and the Hornady 240 in the LK-93. I haven't shot them since all the new "low smoke" powders have come out. I always shot pyrodex loose(LK) and pellets(DISC). Both 50s.

I have the older version of this: https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1023222156?pid=717277

You want a barrel that has corrosion protection INSIDE the barrel. Black powder wrecks barrels. You want stainless and/or nitride treated.

I got the CVA MR (mountain rifle) because it was the lightest muzzleloader available with corrosion protection inside the barrel. Its light and one of the more accurate rifles I have. Easy to clean. And relatively inexpensive. I shoot White Hot and plated hollow point Powerbelts for 99.9% of hunting. If you want longer range accuracy I'd use the Aerolites.

Without wood or blued metal it's ugly and soulless. But it's light, quick handling, accurate, durable and a pleasure to shoot. Mine wears a Bushnell Elite 3500 2-7 Firefly scope.

you can run a mild steel barrel in the white without issue IF you learn how to clean it right.

cleaning takes nothing more than soap , water and a animal or vegetable fat it does take some labor.

cleaning it can't be put off days and weeks. generally it needs to be cleaned within 12-24 hours after being shot.
there are lots of solutions looking for a problem in the muzzle loader cleaning world

You can shoot it one day clean it well and if cleaned and lubed well it can be put in the safe for a year without issue

400+ years of browned steel barrels prove it can be done , it just isn't your smokeless rifle

rendered fat and bees wax can be your lube and corrosion protection

thinking that your high tech coating or SS will stop corrosion caused by insufficient cleaning is well like expecting a Frank Lloyd Wright building not to leak.(most of them do if your not familiar with any ) It does buy you some time and maybe some leeway in how well you need to clean maybe.

the tools of muzzle loading are the thing most people forget

if the ram rod was longer than your barrel it wouldn't store under it well without running into the trigger

it minimum an extended cleaning jag to make your factory ram rod about 4 inches longer
a Range rod for working up loads and cleaning at home is a good tool
patches
a powder measure
lube , it needs to be a natural oil or fat like tallow , bear grease , vegetable oil and most are thickened with bee's wax so they don't run at room temp.
a breech plug tool for in-lines , there are a few tool-less breech plugs , most are some sort of socket
if your a side lock a nipple wrench and nipple pick
a flash hole pick for in-lines and flinters
some require a tool to help get the primer in and out

I think the thing to avoid on an inline is a plastic primer carrier or tool needed to place the primer
my NEF huntsman used orange plastic primer carriers , I solved that with a newmetrics breech plug that takes the 209 primers direct
anything that uses percussion caps #10 or #11 the nipples do wear out , you can keep them in service a long time but they do peen over and you can only clean up the bur so many times and you need a file with to do that so for weight savings even if your low volume a spare nipple with is a very good idea.

if you use pellets you don't need a powder measure but pellets limit you to just the loads that are even pellet amounts.

I haven't used one in years, but I used to use a Thompson Center New Englander. Sidehammer, round barrel, blued and wood in .54, shot round balls and was deadly at 100 yards and I seen my dad flatten a deer at 150 with it. I wouldn't push it past 100 for anything bigger though. If I was to go hunting with one tomorrow I would grab it and be comfortable with it, but if I was buying a new one it would be a stainless inline with a composite stock and probably rifled for conicals, most likely in .50 also, simply because it is so much more common, and a little flatter shooting, if you want heavier bullets you can go to longer ones in conicals, unlike with a round ball.

I was in Fairbanks abut 40 years ago visiting friends and one evening they brought me out to Jimmy Clide's house in the sticks outside of town to have a beverage or two with Jimmy.

Jimmy had a handle bar mustache and looked like he was right out of the old west.

After a beer or two we went out into the back yard where he set up a target at about 40 yards and pulled out two flintlocks 50 call and another one I dont remember what it was, and we touched of a few rounds.

Was pretty cool to hear the click, and then see the spark in your eyes and then the boom and nothing but smoke.

I cant imagine using it to hunt in our wet moose hunting weather but sure sounds like fun, now that that you mention it.

CVA optima or TC Encore (if you can find one). Shoot well and the easiest guns to clean of all the muzzleloaders ive had.

I have a ML barrel for my TC encore and it shoots surprisingly well

maybe Nessy will back me up on this , if you hear a click , see a flash and then the boom , your loading it wrong
a properly tuned and loaded flinter is as instant as a percussion cap

in exhibition shoots guys will hang upside down and shoot their flinter to show that they are fast enough that the click wait woosh wait bang is not correct.

people often pack the flash channel on a flinter with powder , you don't want this it creates a fuse and the delay people speak of
if you use a pick or widdel down a feather place it in your flash channel when you load then prime and pull the pick you have an open channel to shoot the flame down and it gets to no more delay than a percussion gun I think they have actually measured it at less , a percussion gun requires the hammer fall 100% a well timed flinter you may only have 66% of the travel of the flint on the frizen and it is firing

there is a huge amount of miss information spread about muzzle loaders

yes they can be much more of an issue in wet weather that part is real.

You are right GCP, if you hear everything step of a flintlock ignition, there are problems. If they were that slow, we wouldn't be cloverleafing shots offhand at 25 yards. Or holding 3 inch groups at 100.

Yup....I can hold my flintah upsidedown...pull the trigger,and it fires.. After seating the ball on the powder with the ram rod...I shove my pick in the touch hole...add powder to the pan...carefull not to go above or cover the touch hole...and it's as fast as a cap gun