Electric cars. Riddle me this.

Why can't they have an alternator like our gas cars to keep the batteries charged. No need for charging stations. I think it's all bs to tax us more.

^^^^^
You are joking, right? That would be perpetual motion.

They do, sort of. It's used when braking/decelerating to recover the energy/momentum and put it back into the batteries. But that only recovers part of the energy used for acceleration/cruising. So, there is still an overall drain on the battery.

Scary how stupid electric cars are when considered the replacement for internal combustion.

John Galt invented this alternator. You didn't deserve it. It still sits in an old abandoned, formerly employee run auto plant.

There's a couple concepts out there for that but the problem is you at best end up not gaining any electrical profit. Profit being that you gain the as much or more energy consumed by the vehicle. Also have to remember that EVs have energy efficiency losses just like gasoline vehicles. Not quite as much as gas but still not 100%

Who is John Galt?

I am serious. I'm not an expert on batteries.

He was a brilliant engineer at the Twenty-first Century Motor Company ! A peer of Ragnar Danneskjold

Think about what he said, it should explain itself.

Maybe this will help,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion

I have said the same thing, If they would have a small tire type object riding against the car tires turning the alternator and you had one on each tire charging the batteries. You may still have to charge the batteries but it would help.

People need to think outside the box. I would think a couple of smart engineers and a couple of machinist they could come up with some thing.

Energy can't be created or destroyed it just changes form.

It would take more energy to turn the alternator then the alternator can create. You would also lose some in friction, heat lose, and in charging the battery.

Put a windmill on top of every lektrik car. I hear them windmills are gonna save the planet.

I think the disconnect is folks don't realize how much effort/power it takes to turn an alternator when its charging.

I think the disconnect is that a lot of people don't understand that batteries STORE energy. They produce nothing.
The alternator can produce energy but requires more energy INPUT than it can OUTPUT

Agreed

Is this the end of civilization as we know it?

Perfect explanation.

I will never understand why we don't just move on to using propane as all our city buses do here? In the long run they would be less harmful to the environment than the electric cars when you consider the harmful effects to the environment to produce EVs. There are numerous reports showing how little negativity the propane-powered vehicles cause the environment compared to gasoline-powered vehicles. They're certainly more practical that EVs. That is if the real goal is to save the environment.

Saving the environment ISN'T THEIR GOAL! Don't know what it is, but it ain't that, for sure.

They do not care one little bit about saving the environment because
1. They don't care any way. They would be dead long before the "crash" would occur.
2. They know that the save the environment thing is total BS any way.
3. They want to make as much money off of as many gullible people as possible as fast as possible.

^^^^^
Of course if you pay just a little attention, and connect the dots, it's pretty obvious that their goal is control of the masses; movement, speech, thought, etc..

Entropy. It's not what it used to be.

Right. It's all about government control.

If i recall correctly all modern trains are electric powered by diesel generators. In most of the world there electric via overhead power cables. Electric transportations is great with fathoms of torque. The problem lies in how to store and deliver that energy. In the western world we went with the easier faster option of making the user to find and pay the costs instead of a governing body.

Ketchup or catsup, were still using energy to move stuff.

Would you like to upgrade your ev truck with a extended range option? It shows up with a 45kw generator in the bed.

Propane or LNG are still "fossil fuels". They want all fossil fuel use eliminated.

I read today that China started experimenting with making roads that will charge cars wireless. Probably similar to the phone chargers. It will probably cost billions in diesel fuel to make the roads.

"
In the theoretical process known as stoichiometric combustion, none of the original fuel remains, so stoichiometric combustion of propane with air creates not only water, or H2O, but also carbon dioxide, C2O2, as well as pure nitrogen, N2, and oxygen, O2."

Carbon Dioxide is the enemy of " they". You know," them".

Most of the electric run passenger trains in Europe are owned by their governments and are money losers.

"EU rail subsidies amounted to €73 billion in 2005.[35] Subsidies vary widely from country to country in both size and how they are distributed, with some countries giving direct grants to the infrastructure provider and some giving subsidies to train operating companies, often through public service obligations. In general long-distance trains are not subsidized."

Sounds about like EV's

[/quote]Propane or LNG are still "fossil fuels". They want all fossil fuel use eliminated. [/quote]
They don't care about fossil fuels being eliminated until they make the vehicles that use the most fuel ev. Meaning I'll believe it when airplanes, helos, and military vechiles are elec!

So is a lithium battery recyclable or just disposable?
I have enough trouble getting rid of old tires let alone a hazardous battery.

I think eventually they'll just explode!

Rogers Ark. airport doesn't want Chevy Volts in their parking garage. Apparently there was a pwobwem.

lol



Only works if your driving down hill or decelerating. Question is, how did you get to the top of the hill to gain all that potential energy?

By burning energy perhaps?

Looking at some numbers...the most efficient EV currently uses just over .25 kW/h to go one mile. It takes around 90 kW hours to charge a tesla 3 to full.

https://ecocostsavings.com/electric-car-kwh-per-mile-list/

I think it is a great idea. Why don't you push it through to development?

It's called regenerative braking. The energy from the vehicle's momentum is used to turn the electric motor, which acts like an alternator. The three phase A/C generated is then converted to DC by the invertor module,and returned to the battery. It works well, and is pretty simple. Most of the time in an electric or hybrid when you step on the brake pedal, the hydraulic brakes aren't even activated, it's just regenerative braking slowing you down. The hydraulic brakes don't come into play until you're almost at a stop or during panic braking.

Technology is pretty amazing. I do see a place for EVs in areas where people aren't driving long distances like in the cities. Now everyone will have to put in a generator to charge them.

The EV chargers in the Walmart parking lot in North Platte NE have a nice diesel generator right behind them inside a chain link fence.

Here's a good video about regenerative braking. Weber university has a bunch of really good hybrid/electric vehicle training videos.

electric cars are not the future.
There is not enough generation to charge them.
Ca. is already asking EV owners not to charge their cars cause of power outages.
Cobalt, Nickel and Lithium needed for batteries are scarce or hard to mine items, we would have to increase their supplies at least 50X to make enough EV batteries.

Of course that maybe the goal in the end, to make all of us drive less and use less energy so the Nancy Pelosi and Bill Gates of the world have enough for their exorbitant lifestyles.

The other thing people never hear about when it comes to EVs is the cost to charge your EV. Do you know that some fools actually think it will be almost free to charge your EV?

I'm pretty sure that most people that own an EV are aware of the fact that electricity costs money.

As far as whether it's cheaper than fueling a gasoline powered car, that depends on the fuel efficiency of the gas powered car, of course, bit in most cases it's cheaper to go the electric route.

Most people don't own an electric car. As with most things, the more people that do will raise the cost to charge it because of availability alone.

Electric will only be practical as a niche market item. No way do we have near enough energy being produced let alone delivering it to power them to start, but if we ever did the Gov't and electric companies will be throwing taxes and surcharges on top of each other until it's as high if not higher than gasoline vehicle.

People are only looking at costs now when they are a novelty and not what it'll take to run a country on them.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/polici...8d&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

I've always said......if you have a quality product, it'll sell itself, you won't have to push it on people.

And the generator runs on???

My generators run on love.

A gas powered car only uses about 30% of the energy in the gasoline to move the car down the road. The rest of the energy goes out the radiator and the tailpipe in the form of heat. Electrical generation is a lot more efficient than 30%, and an electric car uses about 70% of it's electric power to move the vehicle down the road, the rest being lost through friction and such. Even comparing a gas burning car to an electric vehicle that gets it's electricity from fossil fuel sources, the electric car is more efficient.

Regarding the grid capacity....the grid would need about 30ish% more capacity. That's not undoable.

What about when you factor in heat and ac?

Power generation from fossil fuels averages somewhere near 40% efficient. Not a lot more than 30%.

Is that before losses down the line? Losses during charging?

How is the electricity generated????

Everyone knows electric come from the plug and is generated by...

Gerbils on a hamster wheel and unicorn farts.

Generation is the production of electricity at power stations or generating units where a form of primary energy is converted into electricity. Transmission is the network that moves power from one part of a country or a region to another. It is usually a well-interconnected infrastructure in which multiple power lines link different substations, which change voltage levels, .

Distribution finally delivers the power (we could say locally when compared to the transmission system) to the final loads (a majority of which are supplied at low voltage) via intermediate steps at which the voltage is converted down (transformed) to lower levels.

They should be named “coal powered cars” or “natural gas powered cars” because those are the fuels that generate their precious electricity.

Exactly. All those taxes you pay on a gallon of gas will simply be transfered, and most likely multiplied.

You are mistaken, the most "electric efficient" is somewhere in the 4.0 miles per kW/h. My F150 Lightning averages 2.4 miles per kW/h, with a total battery capacity of around 98kWh. It also only takes 12-15 hours to charge at home, less than 30 minutes at the super chargers, AND it cost me .02 cents per mile to drive it, whereas the diesel or gas is at .30 cents per mile. It definitely is cheaper because electric rates in some states are fixed and never change.

Check your math.

4 x 0. 25=1

Actually way worse that gas if you account for the generation of the juice you put into an EV. Electricker is not made by pixies inside of the walls of your house. Right now you have to heat water ( usually with coal fires ) run the steam over a turbine that drives a generator, transform the energy a few times and push it through a lot of wires before it gets to charge up the batteries in your vechile. Taking all that into account the conversion rate of primary energy into motion, the EV is dismal at it. So mile per mile, you are using way more fuel than a vechile with an internal combustion engine.

Diesel electric on rail=very efficient-around 500 miles per gallon per ton.

I'd like to see this tried on passenger vehicles. I'd think it'd be better....unless the initial cost and repair costs negate fuel savings.

Battery electric, as I said above, I don't see as practical to run the entire nation on.

I don't know they haven't at least done it with semis, alot of bigger dirt equipment is that way.

Excellent point!

I call them powered by external combustion engines, as the fossil fuels that powers them is burnt in a different location.

Mr Loos, can you afford to buy an EV?

@SniperB, People get above 4, but I was just making a point, do you measure fuel milage in terms of how much gasoline or diesel it takes to go one mile?

You other guys are just making moot points, atleast on here for TMAN. I own an all electric truck and dont care one way or the other which is better for the environment. I bought it because It gives me the ability to one day charge it with solar panels, to "fill up" from my house vs a station and because my electricity rate doesnt fluctuate like fuel prices do. The savings is long term, even shorter if you drive a lot, even if fuel drops to $2 and a truck gets 25 MPG, the cost to drive a mile is still 4x that for my electric truck. 10 years at 12k miles per year is $2400 total "fuel" cost for electric vs $9600 for a 25 mpg truck at $2 bucks per gallon. $14,400 for 25 mpg at $3 bucks a gallon. $19,200 for 25 mpg at $4 bucks a gallon.

My 2016 F150 3.5L ecoboost max tow gets 18 mpg and gas is $2.70, which for 10 years would be $18066. My 2004 F350 CCLB 6.0 Turbodiesel gets 16 MPG and diesel is $4.50 which would be $33750. Whats even better is that the maintenance on my electric truck is far less than gas or diesel which again for 10 years puts it more way over. Again, I am only comparing true comparables, not super specific examples, I dont think everybody or even the majority of people should switch to electric. Its highly likely that 90% of people, it wont make sense for, financially, morally, common, uncommon, after 20 years. If you drive a lot, absolutely you should buy one if you can afford it because you will probably make up what used to be the difference in much shorter time. The taxpayers also helped me out on this truck $7500 deduction which puts a huge dent in the difference. Before you get mad, we waste billions on foreign countries that offer little to no strategic reasoning. Ask yourself how much it has cost us to stay in Japan, Germany, Korea and a few other places since WW2. Yes it does great offroad, yes the brake regen is really awesome and it will beat your 1998 corvette in a race to 75mph.

Yep, I agree, they do make sense in certain places, but not for me.

How much will the mile tax be for ev's, 10 cents a mile seems about right. If you can afford the vehicle you can afford the dime.

I would guess for someone that can switch vehicles every couple of years or so would be okay. But I tend to have to drive my vehicles until the wheels fall off of them, I don't see that being practicle with an electric vechile.

We are talking about whether you can charge an EV using its own motion, regenerative braking or other methods so you don't have to charge it at a station. Just pointing out how much energy needs to run the car.

Financially, EVs need well over $5 a gallon to compare to gas vehicles. You have to overcome the initial buy price first. Thats assuming optimal energy uses by an EV, your efficiency falls off a lot when it gets cold and runnning heat or the AC Then when you have to replace the battery, how much is that going to be? Going back to gas prices and electric rates, electric rates are going to jump soon. Europe is experiencing double or triple increases in electic rates.

You just drive the EV till the battery dies or it burns up in a blaze of glory

That would be perpetual motion, which doesn’t exist.

@SniperB, there was no huge initial price to overcome, F150 Lariats in gas were selling maybe 2k-4k cheaper than what my F150 Lightning cost, if you could find them. The $7500 covers all of that and more. The efficiency changes atleast in a F150 Lightning in Louisiana, running the AC in Summer are not drastic by my measure at all. I may not live this next week, next month or even next year, but I do have a battery warranty for 10 years. I cant base my decisions off batteries potentially going bad after 10 years. What happens when an engine has a catastrophic failure after the engine warranty period?

The brake regen does let you extend your mileage but its always a losing game in the bigger picture. For instance, if you were 20 miles from home but only had say 15 or 20 miles of charge, you could very likely make it home with 5 miles to spare. It does offer a bit of classic driving action, since unlike gas or diesel vehicles max efficiency atleast in the F150 Lightning is obtained by driving the contour of the road to maximize the brake regen.

Did you buy new or used? Most EV's have a 15-20k premium over their gas version.

I had a jasper rebuild with 100k and 3 year warranty in my 97 ranger for $3600 I paid $3100 for the truck the year before. Any way you try to slice it that blows away the 22k battery replacement cost. Not taking into account the cost of the truck and your charger.

Come talk to me when your electric car is 22 years old and see if like me you drive it 127miles one way to work. Something tells me that will never happen.

Yup.....won't be long it'll take 100K to buy a new vehicle. I'm about to go back to an old carbureted thing I can work on myself.

Can you tinker with an EV and make it a hot rod?

Argument over.

Um no.

Prolly can't lift it, drop it, or put wide or oversize tires on it neither.
4 WD? I rather doubt it.
Will the boss be driving an elektrik Tacoma 200 miles a day trapping beaver? I think not.

This is from White's article.

Electric cars’ impact on air pollution isn’t as straightforward as you might think. The vehicles themselves pollute only slightly less than a gasoline car because their massive batteries and consequent weight leads to more particulate pollution from greater wear on brakes, tires and roads. On top of that, the additional electricity they require can throw up large amounts of air pollution depending on how it’s generated.

Something folks are going to be blindsided by is a soon to be mileage tax. The EV being heavier is harder on the roads. They are NOT paying a road tax yet.Congress has already been talking about a mileage tax even before the EV boom. Mileage tax

Thats not even counting the emissions created from making the vehicles and batteries.

I went through the steps to build one online and got my name in line for a Lightning. I hung a bunch of options I wanted. It’s a dual motor, so I get “4 wheel drive”. I was shocked at the price, which was under $45,000. I didn’t think you could buy a gas F-150 4wd for under 50, but maybe you can. I like the locking trunk for guns, etc. Since then, they have announced a price increase because of battery expense. I have a Tesla that stays in Montana, and it’s an amazing car. There’s a few naysayers on here, Lol, and they’re not for everyone, everywhere, but in the right application, they are amazing. I figure most, or even all of the guys that are so negative have never even driven one. A lot of the objections to EV’s come from people that feel we are being forced to adopt them. Unfortunately, we are and that is the absolute truth and the objective of one political party. The truth is, they are hurting their own cause. They would be better off if they’d just give the market time to accept them, instead of ramming them down us. But that doesn’t negate the fact that like our power tools, battery driven vehicles do work really well for commuting or road trips. There’s not much to maintain. Running A/C, I haven’t been able to perceive a difference. I’m telling you guys, (from my EXPERIENCE), they can work really well. And yes, I’ll take that Tesla, and race anything you drive. It will accelerate faster than I can safely handle it. It does make it nice for pulling out into traffic. I don’t need a very big opening to get into a lane, and the technology is really cool. That Tesla self driving navigates construction zones and heavy traffic flawlessly. It’s the craziest thing. But I hope that common sense prevails in politics and they just let the free market decide. From what I’ve seen, the majority of the market will choose electric as time goes by and it’s nothing to be afraid of because it will work really well in the vast majority of cases.

I won't claim they don't fit some peoples style, but as you noted the gov't shouldn't push them for several reasons.
First on my list of reasons is we don't have near the infrastructure to support widespread use. That, followed closely by, there isn't near the material available to build enough.

Rare earth metals used to make the batteries and the electric motors in them are called "rare" for a reason.

New f150 4wd MSRP is 46625 cheapest f150 lighting is over 48

They also dont see the future increase in power prices with increas demand. Didn't we just haveva thread on that.
For me they don't have enough range and take to long to charge.. then add in winter and batteries and batteries going bad. Just not for me.

We are being ruled by retards. I am not talking about the mentally challenged folks which I have volunteered to help in the past. I am talking about people who should know better but don't.

They know it's about power, control. And money nothing more

Yes, actually, you can. The power is ramped in, so that you're not getting the full power to the motor right away when you stomp the pedal. They can be changed through programming. Also, the motors are usually rated for more than they being provided by the invertor, which, again, can be changed with programming.

How is that any different then the price increases in gas over the past two years or back in 2007-ish? I don’t get how we would be worse off with an electric vehicle in the face of rising energy prices. After all, can’t you produce your own electricity? How about distill your own gas? This whole “make us dependent on electricity then drive the prices up” argument is the full of so much hot air I can’t imagine anyone making it.

I can make alcohol and make a gas motor run off of it. And if the democrats were not doing all they could to raise gas prices (just wait tell after the mid terms) to push people to electric cars Gass would be under 2 dollars.a.gallon. Also the grid can't handel.the increase in demand and at the same time they want to close the reliable coal plants. Be blind if you chose but loos freedom of movement and you have no freedom . 300 miles in the best conditions is not freedom of movement.

Instead of saying the grid can’t handle the increased load this guy did some calculations. Maybe you should consider his opinion if you want to see all sides of the issue:

https://youtu.be/7dfyG6FXsUU

No one is forcing coal plants to shut down. The market has found a cheaper supply (natural gas) which makes coal plants too expensive. It’s all about your beloved market that you wish would handle the situation. Don’t you even follow that or would you prefer to blame (although that is the wrong word, there is no “responsibility” in this case for shutting down coal plants, it’s simply a result of market conditions…therefore how can you blame someone?) the other party in Washington for everything you find near and dear?

Also, I’ll remember that freedom starts at 301 miles of range. I completely forgot about that clause in the Bill of Rights.

But…but..who is John Gult. Everyone always asks that!

You can only buy a F150 Lightning new by invite only, although maybe somebody could buy one used now. The prices listed are literally the build prices, only the Lightning is sold with no markup in most cases. The truck market has been off the hook, you still cannot get trucks in great numbers in Louisiana.

Literally not an issue with needing to hotrod it, it will beat 99% of vehicles stock. Also for you guys who dont know, brakes are a non issue for EVs. The reason is the electric motors use regen braking to slow down the vehicle, dramatically reducing the actual wear on brakes. The truck is true 4WD, you can do everything mentioned to it as well. If you want a 6" lift, 37s, you can do it no problem. It really is just like a normal F150, except better. It only costs me $1 to go hunting per day, vs 12 or 13 with my gas or diesel trucks.

@Providence. 100% if everybody switched to EVs tomorrow, yes energy prices would rise because oil companies arent just gonna lose out on money. I also think our grid is more than capable of supporting greater EV adoption, but some of the points about winter and charging are spot on in my opinion. The batteries going bad is not something you have to worry about for 10 years, very much like worrying about a new engine going bad. I get 250 miles of range and even more if I try harder, this is all with just the standard range battery, the extended battery would be 330 miles no problem.

Your reading comp could use some work. Have you not even seen Obama and crew for years spouting off about closing coal plants? Adding more regs to increase cost? Do you think the increase in gas price is natural?

You may be happy with a 300 mile range but I'm not. I like the freedom to drive that 300 miles anywhere I want and fill up in 5 min and do it again. Better yet do it pulling a 15k trailer.

No electric vehicle mad can meet my needs. They don't have the longevity and will not last.

If the grid cab Handel it so well why is California asking people not to charge their cars.

Coal is not to expensive. The increase in government regulations is the problem.
But I an probably wasting my time even responding to someone so uninformed or willfully ingorant that believes coal is getting shut down becuse there are better cheaper options.

Scotlands EV fiasco

not as easy as one would think going to EV's.
Just show the stupidity of elected officals, those who are pushing the EV market.

The California argument has nothing to do with evs. Their problem is with their "green" elec production.

I would disagree with you there. Based on my recent experience with gasoline powered engines and modern rechargable batteries, the chance are that my gasoline engine is still going to be running like new in 15 to 20 years. The electric vehicle batteries are likely to be inoperable and worthless (or even a liability due to disposal costs) in 10 years. If a ten-year-old gasoline engine fails (unlikely), you can replace it with a used engine for a couple thousand dollars. Battery replacements for an EV (almost a certainty) are $15,000 - $25,000 from what I've read.

You need to consider the resale value of an electric vehicle in your overall cost of ownership. I think the resale on five-year-old, used EV is going to be very poor. If you are someone who trades in for a new car every two years, buying a new electric car might work out fine. But if you are like me and you keep a car as long as you can possibly make it last, I suspect an electric vehicle is going to be very costly in comparison to a gas/diesel engine!

Plus, I think the current price of a new electric vehicle is heavily subsidized by the government (can someone confirm?). If those cars were selling for a free market price, the numbers would look far worse.

"The batteries going bad is not something you have to worry about for 10 years, very much like worrying about a new engine going bad."

I don't know where you get the idea that a engine goes bad in 10 years. I have been driving for approx 5 decades, In all the cars I have owned (over 3 dozen easily) I have never had an engine go bad and I usually drive my stuff till they drop. Usually its the body/suspension that goes especially here in the land of salty winters.

My current daily driver is an '06, my wife's is a '06 minvan. I have 171K on mine she has about 140K on hers. So they are 17 years old and both have no issues.
I'd bet they are good for 20-25 years easily.

If batteries go bad approx 10 years or so I have gotten twice the lifetime based on a engine over a battery.


It'll be interesting to see how long a EV will last before the batteries go on them. There are gas vehicles out there that are over 30 years old and over a million miles on them. I know its not typical situation but on thing for sure an EV will never go that long in both miles and time before the battery goes out.

how about a '66 volvo with over 3 million miles, think your EV will go for 55 years and over 3 million miles?

https://www.hotcars.com/15-cars-with-the-highest-mileage-ever-recorded/

Keep telling yourself that. They cripples thir grid relying on wind and solar then even use more of the reduced amount of juice left. I'm sure there is nothing to do with each other.
The same people pushing the evs are the same living in dream land that wind and solar can meet the demand in a reliable fashion.

They are directly linked in poor planing and policy.

I'll never have an electric truck because it will not work for me. My commute to work once a month is 489 miles door to door sometimes towing a boat on a trailer. Living out here in the sticks, power outages are a regular thing. My diesel truck has 175 000 miles on it and I would bet that it will outlive any ev that is bought today and then some. The only reason for me to plug that thing in would be in a really cold winter for the block heater.

A couple thousand won't touch a used engine. My 2015 Silverado is in the shop now getting the transmission rebuilt. I was quoted a price of $4100. An engine would be closer to $10,000

Just wondering how anyone in central FL is charging their EV now ?

Nobody down there needs one right now.

High voltage charging stations ... knee deep in water .... what could possibly go wrong.

The toaster in the bathtub comes to mind somehow.

My concern about EV is that rechargable batteries I'm familiar with don't just fail after a certain amount of time. They tend to gradually loose recharge capacity every time charged. I'd worry far more about owning an EV with half capacity at 5 years than one flat out failing at 10 years. What do you do with a vehicle or battery that is not shot, but now only has 150 mile range when it used to have 300?

Where I am in Florida, in the Ocala area, everyone ran out of gas, but we never lost electricity. Seriously, the drivers bought all the stations out and the fuel trucks weren’t running understandably. I get what you’re saying, but what I learned about hurricanes is there is no gas. I don’t know how many cans you want to fill. We had a friend that couldn’t get out of Tampa because she couldn’t find gas. This was the night before the storm even hit. When you lose power for a week though, I guess you don’t have gas or a battery. I wonder if you can get a whole house generator to charge a vehicle.

Doubt you can without gas.

Gary I guess it depend on the motor you are buying. I had a Jasper rebuilt put in my 97 ranger for $3400 a year ago. That's a 100,000 or 3 year warranty.

Sure makes those ev batteries not look appealing to me.

The whole house generators are propane. You have to bury a tank for it. It takes a lot of
Power to charge those batteries though.

Our propain tanks are above ground. I guess in a hurricane area with flooding and wind burning may be a good idea. But if it's that bad I would think power would be the least of your problems.

You will only get about a week and half to two weeks max on a full 500 gal and 10kw Generator.

Good to know. Man, that’s a lot of propane! Where our place is, I think it’s rare to get much damage, we’re so far inland, but the loss of power can be a real thing. We got nothing out of Ian. It got a little windy, 45 mph, but it hardly rained. I’m told they require tanks to be buried here.

In my mind it doesn't matter how you charge your battery or what type of vehicle you are driving. if you take fossil fuels out of the equation and eliminate all of the parts that are made from oil or the energy to create the parts you won't have much of a car left.

I bought a used 4-banger for my PT cruiser for $600.

Well a 6kw generator should be able to handle level one charging. Depending on house load, you might be able to use level 2 if you dial it down to 3kw and run the house.