Young cedars

It's cool when I see cedar seedlings naturally generating on my property. ~99% of the time the deer kill them though. They're a neat tree.

Carefull what you wish for, they can take over easy and quick.

around here they don't stand a chance with all the deer

No naturally occurring cedar around here at all. But the neighbor brought a few back from Kentucky and they seem to do well.

We have eastern red cedar around here. The deer don't seem to bother them, probably because of the spiky needle/leaves. We have eastern white cedar (arborvitae) also. Deer will nibble on them but they are too busy eating everything else to bother them much.

Same here and I immediately fence them when I find them. In 50 years there won't be any white cedar left here.

Red cedar is a plague here. Spend most winters clipping cutting stacking an burning

Invasive species. Good thing is they don't handle fire well.

I love hunting where there are some 5-6' cedars around. It means I can sit on the ground and still draw my bow if I position myself in the right spot....deer walks along and the cedar gets between me and the deer.....draw bow, dead deer.

On the public land here the corps has gone in a cut down acres of cedar stands....they were great bedding areas....

Here too.

rRed and white cedars here take a beating from the deer, unless they're 10 foot or bigger. They keep trying though, seedlings and saplings are a major winter food source here.

I have a couple big ones(eastern white cedar) in the back yard.
This past summer/fall a red squirrel cut off all the nuts and new yellow tips and made two big middens out of the cuttings.
The middens were full of mushrooms and other stuff the little bugger was "squirreling away" for winter.
I've been stocking up a few beaver carcasses in the bait shed and now have a skunk living under the shed in the old mink hole from last year.
I'll let him prime up a bit then take care of him.
There was a groundhog living in the mink hole for a while but I think a fox got him last summer when he went to the creek down in the gully behind the skinning shed for a drink.

I thought about using bud caps but I think you're right that a fence would be needed in most cases

If you have cedars that is a sure Tell sign of shitty land. Land will not perk. Cedars thrive in pipeclay and crappy land

They used to pay farmers to remove them around here. Some giant scissors that attached to the front of a bobcat can take out a lot in a hurry. The place I turkey hunt in NE has had 1000’s taken out. Makes it easier to see the birds but also killed the sneak for us. Used to be able to sneak up on a strutter with some wind to cover you as you can get away with a ton of movement. Making a turkey to gobble from a few feet is a rush.

That’s a bummer. I was going to plant a few along with some Hemlock.

I have about 35 acres of White cedar along a northern lower Michigan trout stream. Some of the jumbos I have harvested aged over 300 years old, but rings have to be counted several feet up the trunk as the butt log is almost always hollow. I think 350 years may be closer. I do see deer browsing but the regeneration is massive, it out paces the deer feeding. The swamp is bordered by steep hills into oak pine uplands. Seedlings seem easy to transplant, I have planted small groves on my waterfront at home.

In the area I turkey hunt, all the farmers hate turkeys and blame them for spreading the cedars. Im glad it’s their belief, whether true or not. Lots of friendly waves from the locals.

They're pretty neat lining your private road with the branches trimmed off to about 10 ft, and handy for nailing fence wire to. Make superb "Rabbitat" when hinge cut to lay down on a multiflora rose patch.

There's a pretty fair cottage industry in the Ozarks using red cedar for tourist crap to sell at road side stands. Wood smells great, and burns hot in the stove.

I got the distinct feeling that we are talking about 2 different species of cedar. We have red cedar in my neighborhood. Nastiest weed tree on the planet so bad paper mills won't take it for pulp. I don't know much about white cedar. Somehow I think there's a difference. Just my 2 cents.

Yes you are correct- two different trees entirely . northern white cedar is “arborvitae “ in Latin which translated to “ tree of life” . The needles of white cedar are high in vitamin c. Its said that is got its name tree of life as sailors who had went many months without fresh vegetables or fruits were able to boil a tea from the needles and save themselves from scurvy which is a disease caused by a lack of vitamin C.

Eastern red cedar or “juniperis americanus “ and is altogether different from northern white cedar and western red cedar . It is actually a member of the juniper family and is not a true member of the cedar family in spite of its common name. Eastern Red cedar is considered a nuisance in the west as it is a moisture hog that outcompetes native grasses and can quickly take over pasture lands .

Well I looked it up and I stand corrected- what I meant to say above was arborvitae is another common name for Northern white cedar. The Latin or scientific name is actually “thuja occidentalis”
And the scientific name for Eastern red cedar is juniperis Virginiana… two different species none the less.

Dang I guess my memory ain’t quite what it once was..

Craig S. Thank you for breaking it down.

Eastern red cedar around here aren't choosy about the land they grow on, poor or good. I have planted several in the yard for wind breaks. As they are native they take hold and grow well. Deer leave them alone other than if a buck decides it's the right one to rub on. Easy to kill as no chemical is needed and they won't re-sprout if cut off below the lowest branch.

Here in my neck of the woods in SE Nebraska back in the late 1800s and very early 1900s the area my grandparents homesteaded was pretty void of eastern red cedar. So much as that my Grandpa and his brother in law drove a Model T truck.......(a 1917 model..., maybe wrong year) about 100 to 140 miles east and would get a truck load of cerdar seedlings out of the hills along the Missouri River. Came back and planted windbreaks and fence lines. Kinda cool Grandpa would tell me the story. Fast forward now 120 years. Red Cedar CAN be a noxious weed as it takes over pastures and anywhere else it grows and turns them into non producing junk acres. It's a constant fight trying to clear and keep clean pastures and fence lines, waterways, etc. They can be a good thing and can be just the opposite !!

The prairie pastures where I turkey hunted in NE had lots of cedars of all sizes. Not sure they are eastern reds though. Those trees had limbs starting at ground level and they were the longest with the next limbs shorter so the tree was shaped like a cone. They were great cover for us to be able to move on birds when we needed to. But the farmer clipped all the bigger ones with a bobcat and eventually piled and burned them. We helped with the little ones, chopping them off at ground level when we were out there turkey hunting. As long as they were less than an inch in diameter, they were fairly easy to deal with and they would not come back from the root. But the birds kept spreading seed from the mature trees in the big windbreak so it was a never ending job.

And the folks that manage public land in NE and KS have cleared many acres of these invasive cedars over the years that we have hunted out there.

Here is what we call an eastern red cedar and it is not the same as what we saw in NE and KS.

Until the dairy farming changed to its current production model, cedars made outstanding fence posts and there were many cedar swamps around here to harvest them.

Bryce

The cedar around here is prized, but hard to find. I think it's red cedar. They are so hard to grow that I think part of the reason people find them so neat is b/c of how rare they are. I'd say it might be a stretch to say that 1% of them survive the deer.

I don't like the ones that are arbor vitae. Personal preference perhaps.

Traditionally farmers in Virginia, at least in my area used locust posts for fencing. I am not sure our cedar grow big enough to make good fence posts. They look a bit sickly and they grow in acidic soil that has been neglected. I'm simply sharing my 2 cents not an authority by any stretch. I wish the deer would eat them up. The only use I have found is grinding them for poultry bedding. Carry on, I have enjoyed this thread so far.

I get confused when I read the Bible and it talks about the cedars of Lebanon. I think this juniper / eastern red cedar doesn't even make good firewood. The branches are so tight together, you waste a lot of time delimbing it.

You are spot on. Red cedar here in southern virginia. Grows like a weed in crappy land unless you let it grow for 25 years for a fence post. Worthless.

Our juniper is a ground running cedar that stays short but runs wide.

Red cedars make great fence post. The oldtimers used to split them length wise and get 3-4 post per tree. Those post would last 40 years easy. Deer will browse them hear in a real bad winter so will rabbits and turkey and pheasants get alot of use from them. They are great trees for wildlife in small patches scattered around.

this seems to be what I've been observing on my property

Sometimes I wonder if it's the smell that attracts deer

That appears to be a Western Red Cedar, a member of the Juniper family. The Eastern White Cedar is completely different and with the exception of idiots like me that raise, plant and fence them will be extinct where I like in 25 years. They are critical whitetail deer winter habitat and make BEAUTIFUL lumber that lasts forever. I have 100's of hours raising, planting and caging them.

Not so. While they do thrive on clay and alkaline soils that is because those soils often lie over impermeable chalk. But impermeable chalk can also promote deeper black muck prairie soils such as the black belt of Alabama that made cotton king.

The difference between the two is fire. Fire burns off the cedar and builds soil. Take away fire and the soil degrades and cedar takes over.

There are a wide range of conifers called cedar that are not true cedars, including both our white and red cedars. Neither of which are related to each other.
Red cedar, the eastern one is a juniper and also unrelated to our western red cedar which is also not a true cedar.

And you are correct eastern red is poor firewood though it does burn extremely well. It burns hot and fast.

Down here red cedars are preferred by the bucks for making rubs. It's not uncommon for every broom handle sized stem in sight to rubbed. I've suspect there's something to the aromatics in the sap and wood carrying the aroma from the preobital glands.

Maybe one of our lure makers could chime in on that theory?

Juniper ? Local names confuse things .

You are asking me to go back 35 years in time where I got a C-?

White cedar leaf is boiled down into cedar leaf oil.
A fellow that does that sells the oil in 45 gallon drums for 50g per drum wholesale.
Takes a few dumptruck loads of cedarleaf for a drum of oil.
Small 1oz bottles of cedarleaf oil sell for $20 retail.

Juniper is a large family of conifers that have a circumpolar distribution in the northern hemisphere. They are even used as an herb for flavored food or gin.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juniper

Cypress has similar issues as does many others like Douglas Fir which is not a fir.

There is lots of confusion across the board in the local names of conifers.

Heck, we got one down here called a Spruce Pine. It's a yellow pine that looks more like a white pine than a yellow one and a true spruce wouldn't survive our heat.

Slight correction, blue spruce are often planted as ornamentals in the upper south but they are short lived.

Our bald and pond cypress aren't true cypress either.

Cedars seem to make a nice barrier from neighbors

Cedars definetely have a noticeable aroma

Thank you for the interesting observations on cedars, warrior.

We find Cedars here mostly on swamp edges.

Probably near Tamaract trees

Eastern red cedar where I live is the life blood of the community. 4 sawmills in a 5 mile radius that mills them.

I think it may differ in different parts of the country. Here Eastern White Cedar is important for the deer in the winter. They will yard up in the Cedar groves where there is less snow and I is often a degree or two warmer there.

They are a neat tree & can add some diversity to a property

I have never heard the term "circumpolar" used before, but I knew exactly what it meant the second I heard it. Thanks

I haven't heard of that term either Swole.

My wife absolutely detests cedar trees.. because of the fact that during our first Christmas together,, we had no money, so I found a cedar tree for a Christmas tree. She was vacuuming pieces of cedar out of the shag carpet for weeks.. lol

Dad and I were just discussing this.

He said he remembered going out and cutting cedars for Christmas.

Told him that my most memorable Christmas was my third one and a big cedar tree all lit up in the living room and that we made out like bandits that year.

He smiled at that for some reason.

I wouldn't say lifeblood but there is a market for them from time to time. We got one bottom on our homeplace that is thin soil over soft limerock where cedar thrives. Matter of fact we call it the cedar thicket. We leave it alone until the local buyers put out a call for it.

I bud capped the terminal leader on some of my cedar this past weekend. I don't think there is a tree deer prefer more than cedar around here.

I have very few Cedars. I'm not sure how much it takes to risk having Cedar rust damage on apple trees

I have an apple planted 6 feet from a White Cedar and they are both 15-20 feet tall with no issues. I fence every white cedar I find or plant to protect them from the deer and bunnies. In 25 years there won't be any new growth cedar here except what was "protected".

It never occurred to me that rabbits could be a threat to cedars, 160user.