Minimum Wage

Just went to the local chicken shack to get a 4 piece tender meal, drink, and fries. It cost $9.99; nearly 11 bucks with tax.

25 years ago, I worked at the feed store in the same town and that same meal was $3.99; but with tax it cost $4.32. I made minimum wage at $4.25 an hour then at the feed store in high school. Basically, one hour of labor would pay for a lunch back then. That's not the case now; one hours pay won't even buy you a meal at the local chicken shack; instead it takes almost 2 hours of labor......What happened?

Minimum wage and inflation went up.

life was alot easier 25 years ago. The ole dollar sure went alot farther.

True Sniper, but minimum wage has not kept up with cost. Today $7.25 for an hours work won't even buy you a meal at the local fast food joint here. 25 years ago it did.

Alot more dollars floating around today. Its called inflation.

So you are saying the same meal is actually cheaper now. It's now only about 2xs the cost of 25 years ago; wages (even minimum) are much more than 25 years ago.

So, why shouldn't everything go up, including the cost of labor?

Biden.

Around where I am now, no one pays minimum wage; everyone pays more, between $18 and $20 per hour minimum. My friend's son works at the concession counter at a local movie theater and is making $20 an hour.

No Waggler. That is not what I'm saying.

One hours work on minimum wage bought a lunch 25 years ago.

One hours work on minimum wage now does not.

That's good wages right there!

Based on lunch costs 25 years ago to what they are now, the minimum wage should be around $12/hour

Chancey,
What is minimum wage is your area?

Cost of chicken lunch $4.32/$4.25 per hour minimum wage in 1996 equals 98%

Cost of chicken lunch $9.99/$7.25 per hour minimum wage today equals 72%

A 26% hit hurts working folk.

$7.25/hour Waggler

No one should be making minimum wage now a days. Walmart pays 15 to 20 per hour.

All the fast food joints here have "Help Wanted" signs up with a starting wage of $14-16 per hour with no experience.

Minimum wage here is $12.56 /hour. So could have super sized the chicken lunch!

Ha!

I dont think anybody here pays minimum wage. Fast food starts at 14

So, if everyone is paying above the $7.25/hour minimum wage, then why all the pushback to increase it?

What is wrong with minimum wage keeping up with inflation?

Funny I just commented about inflation finally catching upwhile at the grocery store today . These Roma original thin crust pizzas have been 4 for $10 ever since I was in college ( Roughly 15 years ago) Went to get one today and seen they are now 2 for $9 - A 180% percent increase! Nope not doing it -they ain’t that great ! Lol. Time to start eating healthier I guess…

Minimum wage is an outdated construct.

If you increase minimum wage, you never keep up with costs. It only temporarily helps those there, and hurts the people that are only a few steps above the old minimum.

Chancey, no one will work for minimum wage. supply and demand. I prefer government stays out of wage negotiation.

Does anyone actually work for minimum wage there? Can hardly imagine that.

Costs and services have far out-paced wages for forty years now. It's always a catch up game that falls short.

Nothing. It's just a talking point for Democrats when talking to ignorant people.

I agree Danny; and you are correct.

I saw on the Dairy Queen sign the other day that they were paying a starting wage of $14/hour. Scared a lot of folks in the ag industry that hire out and pay the local farm boys!

Inflation should not be the driver of the economics. But to answer your question from experience is that our government does not protect us from the foreign markets. if you are a manufacturer and need to raise wages and pass that along to your customer Mexico or China WILL end up with the work. Costs need to be/and can be controlled. We as society are missing the big picture. Obamacare raised the cost (not lowered) the cost for health insurance and obamacare said you as an employer of 49 or more must pay for it. We need to wake up!

Agree with that Waggler, but I thought it was the Republicans pushing back on the "fight for 15" not the Democrats.

All jobs around here pay more than minimum wage. Most fast food is 12-14hr. and still have trouble finding help.

Heck,
Even democrats don't support a $15/hour minimum wage. Why is that? If everyone is paying more than 15, then why does it matter...? Other than the fact that I agree with Danny that the Gov should not be dictating wages.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/fight-for-15-dies-in-senate-with-8-democrats-voting-against

No one pays minimum wage around here. They can't get help to show up for double it. Getting people to actually work if they do show up is a hole different issue from what my daughter is telling me.

What's wrong with everything going up Sniper? If the minimum wage guys get an increase, then the guys just above them should get an equal increase.

Highschool kids do. Which is what minimum wage is intended for IMO; entry level people with no real skill set that need to be taught.

I agree Steven, but the value of ones labor to buy a lunch should not have decreased over time IMO.

This is true, I am trying to buy equipment for my job and I can't get it or the part. The small business owner is MN says he can't produce it cause he can't find the workers! Sad.

You can blame loans and credit for the major increase in inflation. Houses only cost what they do because we stupidly allow people to take loans out for houses. I have a loan for my house. The other problem is credit and credit cards, again all are the main cause of how much the cost of things have gone up. Car loans, main reason vehicle prices keep going up. When you increase the available number of buyers, the demand makes the price go up.

Chancy, it's not the governments job to set a minimum wage. That is up to the free market.

This x a million. I decide what I can afford to compensate someone to do the task I need done. That may be in x amount to do said task, $ per hour, trade or anything else myself and the person I'm entering into said agreement with. It goes the same for both parties. It's not the governments business and should have no involvement at all.

Read what you just wrote. If min mage goes up a dollar, for a 100 person FTE company, thats an exra 200,000 you the company has to pay a year assuming 40 hes a week. Thats just labor increase. They're vendors are likely to increase their prices too so ot might be a 3-500,000 added costs to the business. You're making mote revenue but you're expenses eill raise l.

True, and I agree 100%.

But, if that’s the case, then why do we hear so much griping from employers about trying to find help and an increase in minimum wage?

If a wage increase is demanded by the free market, then employers should not be bxxching. They just need to raise their cost; which most have already done. I have.

I honestly don’t think the lack of workers in this country is due to a lack of workers, but rather workers not willing to work an hour and not be able to buy lunch - on different scales of course, but that’s my point.

All subsidies and handouts from Gov must end.

Understood, so just increase wages from the bottom up, and make everyone (consumers) pay more. Is that not already happening?

When minimum wage goes up the cost of everything to everyone goes up across the board. The low wage employee gets a bigger pay check but everything they buy also increases in price so they do not have more money to spend just a higher # on their pay check.

Those worth more the the lowest paid don't get an increase but everything they buy goes up in price. So they are now have a lowered standard of living.

It is just one tool used to help eliminate the the middle class and create more poor. It does not help the low wage workers and it does hurt others
Minimum wage jobs are low pay for a reason. They are starter jobs for no skill or low skilled workers. They are not ment to be a career..

I worked for $.50 per hour in the 50s and early 60s.

Make a baloney sandwich and take it for lunch. Why should the company, or worse the government, be responsible for buying your lunch at a restaurant? What if you decide you have to have a steak everyday for lunch? Does your company have to raise your hourly wage to compensate? Should the government force them to?

Respectfully, you are missing my point BandB Sir.

I’m not saying or asking for someone to pay for something, but rather a fair wage to buy something of value based on work and sweat should be the same today as it was in the 60s. I eat baloney sandwiches all the time. Not cause I’m broke now, but because I was raised on them.

If we were in a normal free market then things will balance back out but we're not.

Lot of employers couldn't get anyone to stay longer than a week.

Obviously they were hiring people because it took me almoat a year of applications for me to get my current part time job. Had enough money saved and side jobs to keep me going but it got hairy around the NTA convention for me.

Any employer that insists on COViD restrictions is going to strugfle even getting people.

Lot of workers just wont work for any money right now.

Picky employers and a picky unemployed populace dont mix.

Could you buy a lunch for $0.50 then Charles?

Government should get out of all labor, no min. wage, no unemployment, no insurance, should be up to the employer.

I think no income tax would be the best start.

Government should get out of everything in our lives as far as I’m concerned. They’re job is to build infrastructure and protect our border and sovereignty. They can’t even do that.

^socialism does not work like that...

We’re already there Marty.

Point of the whole post.

I don't think I missed your point at all. In your original post, and several subsequent posts, you are equating a fair wage with buying a lunch for an hours pay. That is an arbitrary definition of "fair". A wage should be based on skills and abilities. Also, how much different do you think the profit margin is a those two lunches, 25 years apart? I bet they are pretty close to the same. Everything costs to an employer goes up, the cost to the customer will go up. It becomes a zero sum game, if all workers, skilled or not, are raised dramatically. What they get in an unearned wage increase, they lose in a cost of living increase.

When minimum wage had a role in employment, many employers used minimum wage and part time status (read no benefits) to boost their bottom line. Now that unemployment is extremely low and employers are fighting over employees, competitive wages and benefits drive the worker market place. Minimum wage plays no part today in determining wages and benefits.

Could that change, sure, if the economy suffers a significant recession and unemployment were to rise greatly; employers would again gain control of the wage market.

In either case, raising the minimum wage only serves to compress the overall wage market because there is a top to the 'working' wage. Only those with negotiated wages, who's minimum pay rate is based as a multiple of minimum wage have any guarantees when the minimum wage increases.

In the 60 you could sell a beaver or fox for more than a days wage. People even knew if you were born with boy parts than you were a boy and used the men's restroom. You could support your family on a single income and be comfortable. You could plan in working the same place and retiring at 30 years.

The problem is obviously capitalism and white men oppressing the rest of the population.

Everyone should get paid the same regardless of talent, ability, or work ethic. It's the only fair and equally thing to do.

Should an hour’s worth of “skills and ability” produced by hard labor digging a trench by blood and sweat be able to buy a lunch? How much is an unskilled day laborer worth? Is it really arbitrary?

So what if the cost to the customer goes up?

You missed the point too. The problem is not capitalism, it is the fiat dollar.

Minimum wage should be determined by what the market will bear. Everyone here pays more than minimum except for odd jobs.

So what if cost of the dig diggers lunch costs too much because the burger flipper, the cashier and the fry guy also got pay raises.

You're just cutting one end off the rug to put it on the other end and you lose part of the rug in the process.

Yes going off the gold standard sure had the largest effect and made this mess possible.

Don't think for a minute we actually have true free market capitalism. Not even close.

I think we'd still br somewhat in the same situation. Just the numbers would be smaller.

Maybe but look at the price of gold for the years befor hand and following .

Flat to a steady incline. It's a direct result .

I guess I missed the point of the whole post? You say minimum wage should be able to buy lunch. Of course, it can.. you can get a $5 Biggie bag from Wendy's or any other assortment of value menu items from any fast food joint if you're too lazy to make your own lunch, but that's beside the point.

You say you don't want government involved in our lives but then fault Republicans for opposing raising the minimum wage? They oppose it because there shouldn't be one to begin with.

I'm kind of lost as to whether you want the minimum wage raised, or whether you don't want a minimum wage?

6 years ago, every fast food place was paying minimum wage. The Trump got elected. A year later I went from working for $8/hr to $15 overnight. Then Covid happened and wages went up again. I could easily be making more than I am now but I like my work and LOVE me schedule so I'm good with what I make.

My question is, if someone is willing to work for XXX dollars an hour, WHY should the government be able to force a private company to pay them more than what they're willing to work for?

I would hope anyone with the skills and ability to dig a much needed trench would decline the offer to work for less than what it costs to eat.

And for that matter, when did paying someone to prepare a meal for you become "buying a lunch?" I "buy my lunch" once a week in the form of a loaf of bread, some cheese, and lunch meat. I always have considered people who paid someone else to make their lunch every day as fools... as in a fool and his money are soon parted. What you're talking about is "eating out". Something I'd been raised to consider a treat, not a daily occurrence.

Somebody is up early and on fire. lol

i don't know what its like in other areas but around here you cant get people to come to work for 20.00/hr and work manual labor in a factory. when fast food places are paying 18.00/hr or they can go to menards and drive a forktruck for the same wage.i don't know where the gov gets its stats on inflation but around here it has went up a lot more then 9% from the grocery store to the gas pump.

Idk if it’s the gov should have their nose in person’s pay level. This is what I do know. Always be polite to people who are touching your food!!!!!

I worked on the Muck Farms 72 hours a week,,for $1 an hour.But you could go to McDonalds,,get a burger,, fries and a coke,,and get change back from you dollar.

No one, even in my rural area with a store front is hiring anyone at minimum wage. Capitalism is working here like it is supposed to. With a tight labor market like we have now, business owners have to pay more money to hire workers - and that is exactly what we are seeing. If we fall into a deep recession, and store owners start laying off workers - there will a rise in unemployment and it will take less money to entice a worker into a new job.

"So what if the customers cost goes up?" Really? You do realize that that ditch digger will be someone's customer. If it cost him more to buy everything, his raise is now meaningless. You keep talking about the costs of goods in the past, but it cost less to produce those products back then. Costs of production goes up=prices go up. Costs goes up for everyone=prices go up for everyone.

so you mow your lawn and keep up your house , right

so what's wrong with an HOA that tells you exactly how to do everything and regulates where you park , what you park, how long your grass is what color your door is , when you can have decorations out , what fertilizer and bug spray you need to use and how often you need to use it.


hopefully you see my point.

so that the government can defer the cost of welfare on the business for a few years while things adjust and they play with the numbers

everything government program based uses a multi year average to "best" deturmine the cost

if they pass a 20 dollar minimum wage then they just pulled millions of people out of poverty , sounds great

they now collect more taxes on this and tax base goes up after taxes go up because they now are no longer in poverty and loose the gov substidized health care , child care , energy assistance , food assistance , they are no better off but no longer qualify.

give it a few years then they qualify again it makes an excuse for another bump in minimum wage

every time you bump minimum it squeeze's the middle more and at some point you have a much larger poverty base with every bump , so you need more programs , more subsidies , it is a self feeding beast , it always grows and grows and grows

Because you voted for it. Or did you vote for the guy that was going to get rid of the government forced minimum wages? That's what I thought.

What most fail to see is that what a person earns.....be it minimum wage or maximum wage..........is where that falls on a relative scale.

What is the standard base line cost of living? What it costs to function in life. Food of some type in your stomach........clothes on your back.......roof over your head. Pick a number but lets say that is $18,000.........$1500 per month.

Assuming min wage is now $1000 per month and you raise it to $1500. That does not solve anything, as $1500 per month is not a zero sum game. That number is not locked in. Bump that to $1500 and that sets off a chain reaction above it.........a guy that was making $1500 now makes $2000, and all up the line. That by itself is inflationary..........so what was the base line to survive of $18,000 is now $24,000. Guy that was making $12,000.......now $18,000 is now no better off than he was. Nobody is. That guy's worth is always going to be relative to everyone else.

So forget min wage period. Base line cost of living is what it is. If you make below the base line, either work harder or smarter to raise yourself on the scale till you meet or exceed the baseline. That means individuals are free to pull themselves up without any influence on the rest.

Minimum wage, like so many liberal ideas, is very appealing on the surface when you don't take into account all of the social and economic consequences. It sounds fair and equitable just like mandating employers to provide paid sick leave, maturnity leave, overtime, heath care, and on and on. Sounds great on the surface for everyone, until you understand that everyone are also the consumers that end up paying for all this. So everyone, especially low income folks, just end up chasing their tails regarding income and cost of living.

But this is why liberal ideas sell so well, and liberals keep getting elected. A large majority of the public does not take the time, or do not have the capacity, to think beyond what sounds good on the surface.

Are republicans liberals? Are they opposed to your laundry list of force?

Yes, many republicans are.

Too many, in fact.

Fixed it for you.

I won't argue with that.

My point is that it is so much easier to be liberal, because simple solutions, like Tax the rich for example, seem to make perfect sense. It takes some effort to think things through and rationalize why things are never as simple as they appear on the surface, and there are usually unintended consequences in the best of intentions.

I'll bite. Who was that? Gary Johnson? Someone that didn't have a snowball's chance of winning the election?

I should have took his money. lol

There is no candidate that will get rid of the minimum wage. I guess Hobbie is right, the answer is not voting.

Yote, my point is that in the 50s and 60s, if you were to earn $1.00 dollar then it was the equivalent of 1 silver dollar which is close to one ounce of silver. In todays world, that 1 dollar of silver is worth about $22 dollars. So, if you earned one dollar in 1964, it was worth $22 dollars now as far as I understand. So, to make the same dollar today as one did then, then they would have to work around 3 hours on current minimum wage in order to compensate the difference.

I don't understand how fiat money is sustainable and even works to be honest, but evidently it does because we have been using it for 50 years. But one thing for sure I can see, and that is that the current system is taking out the middle class and making the rich richer and the poor even more poor.

I don't think government should dictate wages; however, it seems they have to now because the system appears to be rigged.

As is happening now. If I want to hire someone that will show up and work I will have to pay they 3x minimum wage. No one makes people go to work for minimum wage or for 100 an hour.

I took a 6$ an hour pay cut 17 years ago to work where I do now. Benefits were better and work is steady, less dangerous, and now that I have seniority easy and layed back. I make less on the hour but the conditions are better and I make more in a year becuse it's steady and overtime is available.

I don't work 40 hrs more like 60 to 80. People chose where they work for several reasons. Money is not the only one. Some want to sit at a desk in the ac others want close to home or need hours they can be home with there kids. We all make choices. Many People that make much more than I do have much less money and are unhappy. Those new cars, big new house, fancy phones and clothes sure don't seem th make them happy like they thought. Yet there are other living on half what I do and are happy as can be. Share one old vehicle for the family live in a small house and live within their means and grateful.

If you don't make enough you have options. Reduce your spending, get skills that you can make more $ with, work more hours weather at your job on OT or a second or 3rd job.

It's not how much money you make but how much you can hold on to.

Life is pretty simple unless you are dumb enough to think minimum wage is intended to be a wage for someone other than a teenager. If you are over 20 or so and worried about what the minimum wage is, the system hasn't failed, you have.

X2 well said.

"The minimum wage was conceived as a way to help bolster wageworkers and decrease class stratification. It was first introduced in the United States with the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA). Passed under President Roosevelt, this act called for the first national minimum wage of 25 cents an hour. This created a floor on wages in the labor market and overall helped to create fairer labor standards throughout the country."

"Despite Roosevelt’s intentions, the minimum wage did not continue to be a means of guaranteeing an economic floor for wageworkers. At the time, the actual poverty line was determined by multiplying estimated food costs by three. At its high point, the federal minimum wage could support a family of three above the poverty line, but by the 1980’s it could not even support a family of two. From January of 1981 to April of 1990, the federal minimum wage was not increased at all. In fact, in these nine years, the real value of the minimum wage, adjusted to 2012 dollars, decreased from $8.29 to $6.66."

That info right there will OD a lot of people. lol

Minimum wage should be about $60 an hour.
Inflation aint high enough yet.

Agree 100% Kansas Cat, but my point is that a teenager 25 years ago made more money and was able to buy many more things, than a teenager today; even more in the 50s and 60s.

Because inflation is sky high right now. Due to multiple reasons. People who used to work learned during Covid how to live off the system and are not returning to work. Biden put a stranglehold on US oil production which in turn increases the price of gas globally. Overregulation of the trucking industry coupled with high diesel prices has less truckers working and increases shipping costs greatly.

Right now no one can hire people for minimum wage... even McDonald's is starting new employees well above it. That is adding to the cost of everything. A dozen eggs here costs $5 because Kroger can't pay a teenager minimum wage to work 4 hours after school. If they have 10 entry level employees working 20 hours a week, that they have to pay $4/hr more than minimum wage just to get them to show up, that's $800 more a week in payroll. Someone has to eat that cost... and it's gonna be you... AND the worker who is now making more than they're worth.

What planet is everybody else on? When I was a teenager I was making maybe $200 a week working all kinds of hours. My youngest makes that a day now. lol

You just can't assume the economy to be a static thing. That's why central planners always fail because they assume the economy is static so all their projections are based on static math. You see it all the time with the CBO report on bills passing through congress. Spending programs always cost more than projected, increased tax rates never bring in the projected revenues, etc.

Your teenager makes $200 a day?!

A go getter can. The people let FDR set boundaries, but not all follow them.