Letter from GFW

Interesting. Have never gotten a letter from them

Got the same one here

Got the same one here

I got it also

Cool, now realize your value and set a minimum price for the beaver you trap to sell to GFW. Everything he listed you should have a rock bottom low that ensures you are paid properly.

Always have been able to set your own minimums.....it's called "throw your pelts back in YOUR truck and leave."

I got a letter from Trevor Barnes a few days ago.

^ This!

Very true and good advice for many Im sure. It also never hurts to try to negotiate, in my experience you would be shocked at what can happen.

Just what would you set that rock bottom price at if you had 10 beaver?

It would help if trappers learned how to grade their fur , especially beaver. There are so many different uses and grades of fur quality that you could make a lot more marketing a seasons catch to several different sources. Unfortunately this applies to NORTHERN beaver primarily.

MattLA,
Have you ever negotiated with a fur buyer?

Yes.



Are these southern or northern beaver. Green or fleshed. Holes or no holes. What size?

Very true and good advice for many Im sure. It also never hurts to try to negotiate, in my experience you would be shocked at what can happen. [/quote]


Groenwald does not negotiate. It’s take it or leave.

Groenwald does not negotiate. It’s take it or leave.

If I bring these 10 beaver pelts in, can I sell him the 2 or 4 that his price is acceptable to me, and "leave" with the rest? Or does he give a price for the 10 take or leave?

it's been years since I've sold to a local buyer, and never to Groenwald, since all the rural buyers went out of business it's now an hour drive to nearest raw fur buyer, only 10 min to an auction dropoff station so I ship. So I'm just curious how the process works today.

[quote=Quartermastersir]Groenwald does not negotiate. It’s take it or leave.

me and a buddy of mine took around 80 skinned coon to the facility around 10 to 12 years ago as he was grading them putting them in piles I would grab one out of a pile if I didn't think it belonged there. when he got down grading them I took the ones I pulled out of the piles and put them where I thought they belonged after he looked at them he agreed with me. it wasn't one of the groenwalds that was grading the fur

This cold spell plus the snow dump ended all my ambition of trapping beaver this winter. $50 average this spring and my interest will be engaged.

He buys by the piece not the lot

You can usually squeeze a couple more dollars out of them, but nothing market changing.

Buyers in general.

When I sell tanned fur I dont dicker on the price.
I do give a discount for those that buy quantity.(10 or more skins of the same species)

No reason you should, Boco. You have a quality product and know what it's worth. That's the way it should be.

Yup- even the guys I trusted would offer a bid I didn't like at one time or another and the next time I was back through they seemed to git where I wanted them to be.

Groenwald does not negotiate. It’s take it or leave. [/quote]
This

Not true…you need to know what you have and where he puts it. It’s like playing a shell game with Guy. He’s got his predetermining average and knows how many to put in each pile to get it.

Sell much fur lately? Or are you holding yours hostage for better prices?

Yes.


What did you negotiate on. And your results? Who was the buyer?
You choose what ever you want and think you are familiar with, just tell us what you are talking about.

high fur prices with good demand leaves room for negotiation.....no demand not much room for negotiation

In the past I have taken In fur to the rat wagon and after he graded my fur I was given a price. I decided to put some of that fur back In the truck. The price changed to I can't give you that price unless I can buy all the fur. I don't know If things have changed.

All them hats for the Yellowstone fans driving at least one market. Til the greenies figure it out and start protesting.

Groney said in the letter there is good demand for beaver. Apparently it is so good, the price is bad, and he has to send letters to trappers to con them into trapping at a loss.

Those 'Top prices' still are not enough to make many of us want to rush out to set traps

Not sure what GFW is paying, but I sold a few furs yesterday to Danny Perry in Louisiana. The price was more than I have received the past two years. Last year he paid $5.50 for green beavers. Yesterday he paid $8.


Green beaver pelts: $8
Otter: $25
Nutria: $1.50

I sold 16 beaver to the GFW truck, exactly 1-week ago in Grayling, Mi. They were from nuisance jobs, I had already been paid well by the landowners so any additional income from these was a bonus, I just didnt want the resource wasted. I rough skinned, folded and froze them flat on cardboard. The biggest ones weighed upper-30's live, maybe 40 lbs at the most. I didnt dry them especially well, alot of the fur was frozen solid. Groneys offer was 12 @ $14 and 4 kits at $7. I was a bit shocked at the $7 kits honestly.

-NC

Beaver is something that is selling well and can be turned over quickly so beaver is a liquid product cash wise. Also with so much less other fur harvested and at such low cost there is not much cash tied up in other non productive fur withthe exception of the carry overs from past seasons, which could be considerable.

Bryce

What do they do to make the pelts sellable to the hatters? Do they shear them or do the hatters? Seems like it would be possible to sell direct to the source maybe? $10 average is not something to get excited about, I still remember $7 rat averages and they sure are easier to carry than beavers.

I'm looking forward to spring beaver. I can even make a little money at it.

My understanding is hatter beaver are baled and sold by the lb. In FHA's June sale blanket hatters were at $19.50 ea. and reports say a lot of buyers left with less than they wanted.

It would be nice to see them hatter blanket beavers going for $23-24 like they did about 12-13 years ago.

At the same sale winter beaver that were "clean" and heavy sold for about double that. In summation, sell your fall and mid spring beaver for poundage and anything good at FHA. There is good interest in semi's this year as well.

That does not seem bad in this market. He gave me $7 for blanket hatters last year.

If GFW really wants to buy fur and beavers are all primarily for the hatter market where damage doesn't matter; why is he giving top prices? If they want to encourage trappers ... specify the minimum price with a top for each grade, or a per pound price. Then all they would need is to have a realistic minimum to make it worth a trapper's effort.

Even the government legislates what the minimum wage will be, if you go to work for a company, which is what GFW is asking trappers to do.

I didn't notice any prices in that letter?

Buy low-sell high.
Beaver is in demand.Good chance for profit for the middleman.

Middleman can go catch them himself for fun then.

Nope, neither did I. Only thing I've seen from GFW are top prices in their earlier media releases. How often does that get paid out (rhetorical). All I see is GFW wishing trappers to sell them beaver so they can make quota and profit in the hatters market at the trapper's potential expense. Personally, I would rather have a guaranteed bottom price with a hope of higher prices due to quality than a hopeful price of the top that 99% never see with no information what downgrades will cost the trapper. At least then trappers would have information to make informed decisions. JMO! But then again I can see were the middleman may have to give back to trappers some of their profits or suffer $$$ losses from missed quota numbers when trappers can make upfront decisions rather than being presented an unrevealed take it or leave it price after expending vast amounts of time, energy and money.

I also understand that some will continue to trap for reasons other than and exclusive of the fur prices they will receive.

is there any hatter makers that buy direct from trappers

Sounds to me like low prices and the lack of trappers for the same reason we are getting near the low and prices may soon increase. GWF is hunting for beaver and some other items and not that many to be found.

The fur market has reached the point where it really doesn't matter if there is a FUR market...ar least down here in the deep South it doesn't.

most all the "middlemen " and country buyers are gone now. that tells you what profit there is in buying. i miss the old time country buyers, groney provides a good service whether you like the prices or not! where will you sell when those buyers are gone? supply and demand contol the market prices not the buyers... keep whinning and merry christmas

FHA provides the trapper with a platform for open bidding from all the hatter buyers national and international. Then they take 11% That's as close as you'll get to direct sales into the hatter market.

BTW, I've heard from reputable sources that both Australia and Belgium are very active in this market.

you forgot a few more add on prices for the buyer
per pelt charge
shipping
broker charges
fuel tax charge
and a few more additions maybe Miss W can shine in

I once researched this. NAFA put out the video "From Fashion to Flowage" and it was claimed, I believe, that only one place in the U.S. removes the hair for felting? I don't know if hat manufacturers buy the pelts and have them processed into fibers, or more middlemen buy the pelts and have them processed and then sell the fibers to hat manufacturers. Much of the felt is a blend of beaver and other fibers. I often have wondered why we don't just shave the beaver like wool?

I was just referring to the trappers charges. There is a little bit more for 'express' charges as well.

I will be going with FHA this year and hope there is a positive bounce .

Dont forget those charges go back to the trappers to run our auction house.Not out the door to someone else.

Still not in the trappers pocket no matter how you slice it.

Comes right down to it with the commission on the trapper, per pelt fees and commission on the buyers there's not enough difference to argue about.

Yes it is in the trappers pocket,otherwise we would have to keep it going with money from the trappers pocket like when we got it started.
And when fur prices are high beyond what is needed to keep our auction house going,the RPC pay out directly to the trapper.
And that decision is made by the board of directors.

Knowing where to sell your pelts depending on a rising or falling market can make a huge difference compared to a steady market.

You also did not mention that FHA only provides an opportunity for trappers in some select areas. There is a lot of the lower 48 that they do not serve where beaver are plentiful. NAFA served a lot more areas of the country but FHA does not even want to discuss providing opportunity in most of the now unserved areas. And they will not accept direct shipments even to their US warehouse. Pelts have to go through their agent that does not exist for many states that were served by NAFA.

GFW and other independents are the only opportunity many states have.And GFW has expanded service areas a lot since NAFA folded.

I certainly do not see FHA as a knight is shining armour that is going to be the trappers best friend. But I also understand that your mileage may vary if you live in an area that they serve.

The same thing happens with country buyers. The profit they make goes into buying more fur, and keeping on the road and doors open. You don't think they have expense?

I dobt anyone got a profit sharing cheque when fur prices were high enough from a company owned by someone else.Or a say in how the company is run.
The profits go back to the trappers at FHA.
Lots of trappers are cashing in their RPCs right now to tie them over in the down market.Which is OK.
Me,I will leave mine with our auction house.
Another thing,the fur drop offs and local pick up routes are done by local trappers and they are paid for it.

Nothing wrong with selling fur anywhere you want as long as you are happy with what you get for it.
A lot of trappers are loyal to FHA because they or their familys had a hand in getting it going.

I'm in a lower 48 state not served by FHA as well. I have to get my fur up to Washington state that has an agent. An added expense for sure.

Boco, Do Canadian trappers have any other option? I have seen Canadians post that they wish there were country buyers in Canada. I know Grony started buying in Canada after NAFA shut down. I have no idea if he still is. Does anyone know if he is still buying in Canada?

MJM just go to their web page
yes they are still buying in Canada

FHA shows agents for 33 states but only show pickup schedules in 14. They list agents for Tennessee and Virginia but I do not recall ever seeing a route or a drop off point listed for either state. It appears to me that FHA does not want any southern fur.

GFW runs several southern states and I believe they have added another one or two this year.

Are there other buyers in Canada?

QBD
FHA never had a pick up in ND until NAFA closed. So it was wider spread than the south. That was the main reason I always shipped to NAFA. Why add expense to selling fur.

Sometimes it takes money to make money. Trappers seem to be lazy when it comes to marketing fur. Groeny is telling people all you got a do is trap it and skin it and I will pick it up. It doesn't work that way here. I switched to FHA, when I decided I couldn't trust NAFA and their agent. Only a 600 mile round trip in a van and the normal 130 mile round trip on a sno-go to deliver to FHA agent at the time. They have this thing called mail, I have used a time or two. Sometimes it pays to ship to places that pay better.

I wonder if Groeny could just hire ( for wages ) trappers to catch beaver? Maybe Poncho would like a break from the fleshing machine?

Unfotunately felt makers write contracts for tens of thousands of pounds (usually).

Nope, send FHA your otter and see what they do, pretty good! Compared to most other sales, except in the western U.S.

It's been quite a while since I've seen any ''pretty good'' Otter prices.

Maybe you are too far north?

I can tell you I'm pretty far north of a twenty five dollar avg.

Maybe one needs to figure it's pretty good for the market. I always laugh when people say that. It is a nice way of saying it stunk.

I get a kick out of that as well, "it's pretty good for the market". What ever you sold for is the market!

I hate to bust anybody’s bubble but to offer top price on anything is an old marketing ploy, they pay you their top price, in which they choose, it means absolutely nothing.

Average after commission is the only thing that counts.

Average including your unsold after commission would be better.

I remember the day I realized that Top Price was a marketing ploy. There was a sign on Main Street on a Fergus Falls Mn pawn shop, it read Top prices paid for guns. I had been in there many times and bought several guns there but the day I tried to sell a gun and got low balled like any other gun dealer the truth hit me in the forehead like 2x4(the only way I learn anything).

Have to get the Dolly Llama (sp)back on board with the otter !

^^^Hard to believe that a dirt poor country like Tibet supported the whole otter market at record prices for those years. Head scratcher for me.

Google "Precious skin-jstor" and read about why otter fur and all fur lost their luster in Tibet.