Giant Pacific Salamander

For years I have watched one bird, plant, or animal population listed as threatened or endangered. The Spotted Owl is the obvious species in the Northwest, but one critter that I have only seen a handful of times is the Pacific Salamander. This is after spending nearly 20 years working in their preferred habitat. More than once I have picked up a conibeared beaver and found a salamader under it. Others were just chance observations in mountain streams. I have always thought that the environmentalists were missing a chance to stick it to the timber industry again. Anyone have any thoughts.

Shhh, Alabama has the Red Hills Salamander found only in a couple counties in the state.

I know one area on the west side of the Cascade Mountains where they are very common, but you are right, they are a pretty mysterious creature.

Amphibians are in trouble everywhere it seems. I'm sure the "authorities" and other "experts" are aware of this, however, it would open a huge can of worm if they really started to investigate the situation. I'm betting the decline in amphibians is due to so many chemicals in the environment, and the fact that amphibians apparently can absorb substances through their skin quite easily. Just my guess.

Bearguy -

I'm assuming you're talking about the Coastal Giant Salamander, Dicamptodon tenebrosus, I have no experience with them. On the other hand, over here in Idaho, the Pacific Giant Salamander has been recently reclassified as the Idaho Giant Salamander, Dicamptodon aterrimus. As is your experience, I've only seen a few in my life. However, about 5 years ago I started "screening" streams in North Idaho (using window screens to "net" critters downstream of rolling rocks in fast-flowing streams), and found that the giant salamanders were actually quite common.Have you looked using these screens?

I do, I think the environmentalist agenda prefers to use the beaver laying on top of the salamander, to stick it to the timber companies, and the trappers?

What about the Oregon giant earthworm, seen them up to 28" long, not much publicity on them yet either.

Seen those giant salamanders on trout stringers with 8" trout swallowed whole. Pulled them off fish several times, aggressive acting, hiss at you like a cat.

Found them in coastal streams and terrestrially under old rotten red logs, a long way from water. Have found a couple juveniles 8-10" long on my place not long ago. Again, under rotted logs.

^^^^^
Yes, surprisingly they can act pretty aggressive, but I'm sure their bark is worse than their bite.

Gulo, your pics are a different specie than I am referring to for sure.

These are red colored, without mottled backs, get huge compared to your example, large flared out gills are exposed on the bigger ones.

This is more like I remember. I have seen smaller salamanders that I assumed were a different species. The one's I have seen, with the gills, are huge. They were probably 18 to 24 inches long. I have never seen one out of the water. A friend caught one while trout fishing on the McKenzie River. I don't remember what the bait was, but it wasn't a worm.

A good friend, and lifelong logger, was logging some old cull old growth logs years ago.

He says he reached under a log to set a choker and something got hold of him by a finger. He jerked his hand out, and one of those couple foot long salamanders had his finger. He was wearing a cloth glove, so he took the glove off and the salamander kept the glove finger in his mouth.

Those ones with the external gills are the same species. Usually they lose those gills sometimes they don't, I don't think anyone has figured out why.

catch one on a worm its great flathead bait

One of the problems is that a lot of policy is made on only a little actual research. Most early (so base line data) field surveys of many small non-game critters were not systematically done; a study done here and then repeated and a study done there and then repeated, etc. The numbers were down so must be happening everywhere within their range but how is that range determined?? In statistical sampling you want some sort of systematic way of gathering the data. A few studies here and there, even if modeled for a larger area is often weak statistical science.

I helped "facilitate" a 2-day meeting on the current (as of about 8 years ago) status of topeka shiner research-- the topeka shiner is a pretty "minnow" of the western Midwest. I use the term "facilitated" because my work friend and I were in a building that was basically centrally located among various state and fed groups investigating this little fish, not that we were fish biologists. So, topeka shiner research has been going on (off and on) for 20+ years but after listening to these folks, it was apparent to me that the full range of the fish wasn't really known (new populations popped up here and there doing various surveys) and no true overall consensus about the cause of their "decline" had been agreed on. It wasn't land-use change because several nearby creeks to my area (about 85-90% cropland) had recently showed up as "hot spots" of populations after some new surveys. Overall, it was pretty mind blowing to me how much the experts didn't know about this little fish...

Following this I find it interesting. Those critters look like what I know as a mud puppy here. The mud puppies live in the water and I've only ever seen them in the water. I've have seen other smaller salamanders in woods. Usually under wet leafs or rotten wood..

Mac

A mud puppy is what a tadpole is to a frog or toad. Mud puppy's become salamanders. I saw great big mud puppies in Montana in stock ponds, when I was hunting sage hens years ago. They were a foot long, maybe more. I would guess I was around Grass Range. Here you can see lots of them in the spring at times. They are 5-8 inches. I have seen 100's of them sitting on the bottom just out from a culvert with water pouring out of it.

First one (insignificant critter) I remember the tree huggers making a big deal over was the snail darter. Congress finally took action and put an end to the insanity.

I've caught the smaller salamanders here, I'd love to catch one of those big ones. I always turn them loose later.

I have them in my pond. In September they come into my yard and end up in my window wells. I end up taking them back to the pond. Not sure why they leave the water like that.

The salamanders you guys are talking about, that are big, with the external gills and living in the water, are neotenic. I don't know for certain, but the ones commonly called mud-puppies or hellbenders are sexually mature salamanders, but have not gone through the normal process of metamorphosis, and they retain a lot of juvenile characters. Different from the Pacific or Idaho Giant Salamander that have morphed normally, and have become "land-dwellers" rather than water-dwellers. I've seen where tiger salamanders have entire populations that are neotenic, and they grow quite large.

Jack