Middle Class

Between $52,000 and $98,500/yr. Do you agree?

Sounds about right for here....though you'd be struggling at the 52 level...

Is that for an individual or is it per household? The thing is the huge variance in the cost of living in different areas. Around here 52k for a household would be tight but doable for some people. 98k is higher than a lot of households here. This is in rural southwest WI.

It would be easier if people lived within their means and didn't want to live a champagne lifestyle on a beer or water income. Amazing to me how many don't grasp don't spend more than you make.

definitely have to ask single or couple or how man kids and where and when did they buy their house

there is a new lower middle class term now as well

brittle class , is a line between middle class and poverty , where the next thing that breaks or life issue can take you below that line.

it will vary from housing market to housing market

lots of people finding themselves in the brittle class

Here in small town NE, yes. Other places, may not.

Seems about right for here, at the lower end of that a family will be renting or living in a small inexpensive house.

jobs local to my farm ar between 48 and 75k. Now subtract insurance cost and deductible, 401 and roth contributions, and taxes sure doesn't leave much left and why I'm still traveling for work.

You can make any number up

Yep

True. 97.65% of all figures are made up.

Here is the actual claim.

According to the data, the middle-class household income averages across the U.S. ranged between $52,000 and $98,500 in 2024. But the study also found that the income levels required to be considered middle-class varied significantly depending on where a person lived.

Here’s a nugget regarding # of people.

Pew defines a middle-income household (specifically, a family of three) as one that earns between $56,600 and $169,800 in 2022 dollars. Using the Labor Department's inflation calculator, that adjusts to roughly $60,882 and $182,646 in 2024 dollars.

Depends where you're living at. That's probably really good money some places, and you'd make more waiting tables in some localities. Just depends where you are and what the cost of everything around you is. I make $52.19 an hour and it never seems to add up to much, but everything is very expensive, a can of Copenhagen around here is $12

Next ? : What keeps “you” from moving to middle class?

Seems a little low. That is probably for a single person, not a married couple.

52k here for a household would be poverty.

Here is our current median household income, so I guess that would qualify as middle class.

My point is who decides what is middle? Why does it start at 52? Why not 55 or even 60? 52 to 98.5 is a pretty big gap.

52k would be real rough here too and I'm in the midwest

My high schooler makes $16-hr at Kwik Trip part time....If that was full time that's $32k/yr, add a wife that's $64k/yr....I think pretty tough to make it on that for a young couple

In the more populated coastal states, those income numbers would make you dirt poor. You couldn't pay for basic life expenses and rent a rundown apartment for that in many cities, even before tax.

Keith

Poor, middle Class, rich, and wealthy, will ALWAYS be defined according to the current "social times". . . and it doesn't necessarily pertain to money :-)

This gives more importance to teaching kids starting to work to invest as much of their income as possible, as soon as they have enough to open an account.

Decades if growth are the best possibility to retire before 80 years old.

Agree with this. Also, map out a plan for success for your kids early. Talk to them often about college, trade school and the military. Talk to them often about career options, making a living and their future.

Federal poverty level for 2025 Persons in family/household 100% FPL


1 $15,060
2 $20,440
3 $25,820
4 $31,200

Gave the grandbaby 100 shares for his first birthday, is that soon enough?

A banana and a piece of duck tape might have been the better investment, at today's prices anyway.

Energy isn’t going away, period so I like his chances over a banana.

....dang ..so I'm upper middle class

You’re always working your tail off so you should be.

Keep paying in that Social Security, us old people are depending on you !

It all depends how bad you are with money.

To me a better definition of Middle. lower or upper class could be defined by the amount of descretionary income a household has after deducting the typical or median living costs for the area one lives in. Inflation puts a lot of so called middle income households into lower income households. For those hoping to see a significant drop in living costs don't hold your breath. Abouot 10 years ago when fertilizer, seed, chemicals, fuel and land rents went way up they have not come down hardly any even though prices for the products have gone up and down considerably. Evidently there was or is too much cash that used to be used for discretionary purchases that are now being used for fuel, food, housing, clothing etc. I don't see that changing much if at all. If we deport a lot of undocumented workers the housing shortage will worsen considerably.

Bryce

If we deport 30,000,000 illegals that should open up houses and apartments they are currently living in.

Agreed. If you don’t owe any money….mortgage, car payments, CC bills, $52,000 would work for a retired couple.

I don’t fit in to those money bracket’s. Guess that means I don’t have no class at all.

Yep, there's a big difference between standard of living and quality of life. There's a lot of stuff out there that seems to be "normal" for the American Middle Class that I simply cannot afford. I am, however, convinced that my family and I live a better life than most of the American Middle Class, not just in spite of our lower standard of living, but often because of it.

I'd rather have lots of real-estate to be honest.

It should. We should also confiscate all of the illegal aliens property to lower the burden on Americans who pay tax.

Keith

Oh, someone will get it, but not likely the tax payers

That would be awesome. But it still feels like renting it from the government.

Miss a couple tax payments and see who really owns it. lol.


Are there any states without a property tax?

I'm lower than that and I'm fine. It's all how you live

Takes a chunk of money to buy. real-estate. While your saving up better invest it in something with a return so it's working for you.

I told my wife a year or so back that when I was an Ironworker Apprentice at 13.65 we always got by even with layoffs I off set with tree work and even had one year on the books I only made 19 k and never made more than 65k after topping out. And back then I had a life hunted, fished, did things with friends. Today well I'm making more per year than I ever though possible. Already 2x over my best year Iron working. Yes, I have a paid off farm and rental property, nice savings and investing as much as I can for retirement. BUT I don't have much of a life always at work, only hunt and fish with the kids and only have a few friends I never do anything with. I THINK I WAS HAPPIER when I was broke and struggling.

She pointed out we didn't have kids back then the kids are expensive and also things cost a lot more now and she is right. I also was not thinking about retirement at all and is why I'm trying to make up for that blunder saving more now.

I think i may have been a member of the officially recognized middle class 3 or 4 years total in my entire adult life. If most of my adult life was spent in poverty. I woujdn't have known it if the government wouldn't have classified it as poverty.

Saw this in the news headlines and thought it was relevant to this conversation.

https://www.axios.com/2024/11/22/boomers-gen-z-millennials-financial-success

I must be out of touch with reality. All of those numbers look high to me, but the Gen Z amount looks insane. I figured if a guy could stay (mostly) debt free and off of government assistance, that’d be pretty successful.

That does seem extreme. I suppose it is possible though. One of my kids is making 75k/yr at 33. I was way past that before I was making that kind of money. The youngest is about to graduate college with a degree in Computer Science & Software Engineering, he’ll probably do okay.