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are beaver measured from the eyes or nose?

Posted By: goldy

are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 04:03 PM

does anybody know for sure, I've heard both, are beaver measured from the eyes or from the nose at NAFA? It definetly makes a difference.
Posted By: SNIPERBBB

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 04:28 PM

Everything is measured from the nose.
Posted By: big8s

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 04:33 PM

I thought beaver were measured from the eyes, I know alot of people cut the lips and nose of their beaver cuz they dont dry good and they claim it doesnt get them docked cuz of measuring from the eyes.
Posted By: SNIPERBBB

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 04:36 PM

Some people do cut them off then the measurement its just to the edge of the pelt.
Posted By: goldy

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 05:02 PM

That's why I was wondering, some do cut the noses off because they say they measure from the eyes anyway. Does anybody know for SURE? I'll be shipping to NAFA.
Posted By: KYBOY

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 05:07 PM

Ive seen it done both ways but the nose mostly in my exp.
Posted By: mark

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 05:26 PM

The most accurate way to measure beaver is "criss cross" through the leg holes. In other words lay your scale from the front left to the right rear leg hole (and to the edge of the leather) and then measure the opposite side and add the two together.
Posted By: gibb

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 07:32 PM

Beaver are measured from just in front off the eyes to the rump and then across the middle. Then add the length and width together to get your size. The nose is not part of the measurement.
Beaver that are put up round are measured across the legs.
Cheers Jim
Posted By: mark

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 08:11 PM

Jim, I have found that the difference regardless of stretch is rarely more than a half inch. Thanks for clarifying it though.
Posted By: don Wolf

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 08:20 PM

I most usually will measure a 1/4 in or so in front of the eyes and measure across , then add. If I have a fractional measure I generally do it different ways. If the measure is 1/2 in more than say 20 inches to the eyes and 19 1/2 across I add the fractions to make a full number. In other words I add 20 1/2 in and 19 1/2 in. to make a total of 40 inches.
I don't know if the auction houses give the fractions or drop the fractions. Which is it Mr. Gibb?
Posted By: gibb

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 08:46 PM

The size is the size. Bascily there is 5 inches between each size so anything over the measurement would make the sizing. For example a large beaver is 55 to 60 inches. A beaver measuring 55 and 1/2 inches makes the size. We do not round off. Remember that a beaver shinks as it drys so a beaver just off the board at 55 inches could lose half an inch and it would drop it down to a large medium.
Once a beaver is received and ticketed the first thing done in the grading process is sizing.
Cheers Jim
Posted By: KYBOY

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/03/08 09:01 PM

 Originally Posted By: don Wolf
I most usually will measure a 1/4 in or so in front of the eyes and measure across , then add. If I have a fractional measure I generally do it different ways. If the measure is 1/2 in more than say 20 inches to the eyes and 19 1/2 across I add the fractions to make a full number. In other words I add 20 1/2 in and 19 1/2 in. to make a total of 40 inches.
I don't know if the auction houses give the fractions or drop the fractions. Which is it Mr. Gibb?

Im not a fur buyer but Ive worked with enough measurements in my life for that to sound right to me Don. Every calibration or cut Ive ever made was totaled together, whole numbers and fractions. A 19 1/2" piece of steel and a 20 1/2" piece of steel laid to gether is 40" any way you look at it.
Posted By: goldy

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 01:55 AM

Jim, how far in front of the eyes do they measure? A half inch? An inch? I seem to have a lot of "borderline" beaver this year and an inch would make a big difference. Also, what about coon, where do they start the measurement on the head of the coon?
Posted By: Mike Kelly

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 01:59 AM

As I understand it...
If you take the nose off, from the top of the pelt.
If you leave the nose on, about 1/2" in front of the eyes.
Posted By: gibb

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 01:05 PM

The measurement is a judgement call but roughly starting an inch in front of the eyes on a beaver. It will depend upon the size of the beaver and how much has be trimmed off. More important to remove the nose and whiskers.
Raccoon are measured from the nose to the base of the tail. Again if the stretch is to narrow we would take that into account.
Cheers Jim
Posted By: don Wolf

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 03:17 PM

Mr. Gibb, on your coon measurement, If I have a coon that is stretched to narrow, I most generally will add an inch to the measurement to make it correct. Don't know if I worded it correct but to give an idea. If a narrow strtched coon measures 27 in to be an xl , It is gonna have to be 28 in. to be a true xl. That is if the coon is say on a 6 1/2 in to 6 3/4 in width, when it is supposed to be a bit over 7 in or close to 7 1/2.
Also when you get a coon that is stretched to wide, do you fellas give the coon length.
Lets say the coon is stretched 9 to 9 1/2 wide and a semi heavy, would you grade a coon that stretches 26 in and 9 in wide into an xl catagory that should be 27 in.
Posted By: goldy

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 03:21 PM

Thanks Jim for clearing that up. So you're saying I should cut off the nose and whiskers on the beaver before I put it on the board, correct?
Posted By: gibb

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 05:14 PM

The biggest problem in the wild fur trade is a lack of standardize stretchers. We just finished grading for our sale on Monday and after working for the last month gearing up for the sale the most inconsistent factor is the stretching of wild fur. For the most part raccoon and beaver are more consistent then some of the other wild furs because of the wire stretchers for coon and the oval pattern for beaver.
When sizing fur if the stretch is standard only the length of the pelt is important. Whenever a pelt is poorly stretched to wide or to narrow we take that into account. Too narrow and it will lose a size or two, too wide and we bump it up a size or two. When we do the actual grading the grader will decide if the skin belongs in that size. It becomes a judgement call. Generally speaking if the trapper does not stretch it right there are generally other problems in the handling.
A good example are beaver, the industry standard for the last thirty years has been the oval stretch. 7 diffirent sizes all of then oval. Last year we gave roughly 8,000 beaver patterns out yet we still receive a pile of beaver that are stretch round.
I cut the nose and whisker off when I board the beaver.
Cheers Jim
Posted By: mark

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 05:21 PM

Yeah Jim. Some folks just don't accept change. Last year I bought some square stretched beaver. Remember when we last did that?
Posted By: SNIPERBBB

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 05:29 PM

Gonna have to start telling people not to sell the wire beaver hoops to get rid of them round beaver, or tell them to start including the tension bars for them instead of having to buy them seperate.
Posted By: gibb

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 05:51 PM

A lot of money is lost via trappers not properly stretching their furs. Stretching beaver round lose both size and fur density. The last place a beaver primes is in the back of the head. You will notice as the pelt becomes prime the leather becomes white at the edges first and slowly changes colour until the whole leather side is white. The center of the back on a fall beaver is going to be much darker in the leather. This tells you that the underfur is not complete yet. When a beaver is graded we check the leather first then the fur on the flanks and the last place we check is the back of the neck area. This area will tell you the underfur is complete or not. Stretching a beaver round pulls the fur away from that area.
I will clearly state for the record the proper stretch for beaver is the oval stretch. You are free to stretch anyway you want but for the record the oval stretch is the best stretch for beaver. With the nose and whiskers off.
Cheers Jim
Posted By: don Wolf

Re: are beaver measured from the eyes or nose? - 01/04/08 06:09 PM

Thank you Sir!
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