BOG proposals

Proposal 8 : shorten coyote seasons to Nov 10 to March 30 from Oct 15 to April 30 better fur.

Proposal 9 : Extend wolf trapping from April 30 to May 31st. "Hides would still be in great condition this time of year and......" I quote

Pick a proposal #: Stick beavers with arrows and reel them in.

I can't wait for the AC meeting.

Im against shortening any season. Id rather make the choice to not trap then have someone make it for me.

I agree with you. I think it should be up to the individual to make that call, not the state.

It's really the early opener that is a problem here on the road system and by catch is the biggie. Bears are still out and a nuisance griz with a snare on it's neck is not good. Then there's the problem of fox, cats, wolverine, etc getting into the early 'coyote' sets. There have been instances of trappers hitting it hard under the auspice of a coyote season. And I mean hit it hard just read between the lines. Enforcement is weak so that's a real problem and serves only to screw the honest trapper. In some areas with early coyote seasons only 3/32 snare or bigger is legal. Whatever. But far worse than that is some guys don't read too close so they set traps along with their snares. We even had an area biologist who wasn't aware that is was snare only when some lady got her dog caught in a 'coyote' set just off a trail near her house October before last. And this lady specifically kept close control of her dogs starting Nov 10 which is when she thought trapping seasons open and in fact everything else has always opened for a long time. Oh and she took that Channel 2 news. It was a 13 year old champion dog she competed with to jump hoops and run up ramps and all that stuff. The dog broke a tooth biting the trap so they showed a nice close up of that on TV. Early land trapping seasons on the road system are not good and all the season opener dates should be aligned.

I dis-agree. There are always those that push the envelope. Areas with the most restrictions are usually the most exploited.
Why have any season at all, if it should just be up to the individual? And why stop there? As long as I'm comfortable fishing with dynamite, and don't go over the limit, what harm? (I actually heard that from a person while taking comments on our local advisory committee).

Who needs dynamite if you have a hand cranked telephone handy? Lol

drasselt you have valid points, but on the flip side of what your saying the coyote season rules and regulations are in line with wolf season rules and regulations, which makes perfect sense to me. I don't know the history why those two are aligned like that but my guess would be that at one point wolfers were nailing the yotes pretty good and instead of turning that fur over to the state they adopted the current rules and regulations. Perhaps someone has some insight on that?

Why anyone would be targeting any other land fur at that time is beyond me, it would still be far from prime and for the most part still blue.

Were the heck did bow hunting beaver and reeling them in come from? Is that even a thing?

I never did understand the early opener for coyotes or the snare wire size requirement for the early opener?

How about making it legal to shoot beaver with a trapping license in every GMU? Sure would make reading the regs a lot easier.

Why do people trap open water beaver in September when they can do it end of October or clear into November when the fur is far better?

Because they can.

There is a proposal to open in August.

" Talked to the landing manager and he said that with them opening up beaver for shooting and the harsh winter and low water levels the beaver sign was pretty scarce."

Maybe this could happen where you live.

The hope was that an extended coyote season would help take pressure off of certain prey species had nothing to do with coyote by catch during early wolf season. Wolf snares are very much more exclusive of other species than coyote snare (loop size, height)

drasselt Ok, what species? Not trying to argue but trying to understand. Like I said your points are valid, out of the last 4 critters I caught in snares set for yote, 2 were yotes, 1 fox and 1 lynx.

Sheep. Pie in the sky.

Now I get where your coming from. Have to totally agree with you.

Many folks want an early beaver season for the bait, not the fur. And not everywhere does it freeze up that late.

-TJ

It is not legal to trap beaver for bait. You have to trap them for hide or meat for human consumption. Bait use is a byproduct of trapping for hides. Just Saying!

And other than skinning the early caught beaver, your not required to actually use the hide. In general beaver are plentiful and need some control. Not sure about an August season. Unit 22 has year round beaver season.

"hide will be put to human use" Whatever this is?

Where did you find that verbiage Dirt ? I am looking at the regs under "Use of Furbearers" and I can't find it.

Last phrase under " Salvage" under " Use of Furbearers"

Appears to refer to game animals?

Right !! Thanks !!

After Dirt posted this I decided to ask the powers that be for a legal opinion on this. What is posted below is an "official" opinion from ADF&G. I asked the local trooper for his understanding and he asked the area biologist. They then asked for official clarification from Fairbanks.

Here is the response.


"We got with the “expert” at ADF&G and she states that “human use” is not defined and could include many things, including use as bait for trapping by humans. That being said, in all areas of the state requiring salvage of either the hide or meat of a beaver for “human use”, either one or the other could be salvaged and used for bait, or get this, the whole thing could be salvaged from the field legally and then the hide, the meat, or the whole beaver could be deployed as bait. Areas like GMU 9 and 17 that require salvage for “human consumption” are different and more resemble requirements for meat of ungulates and bears before a certain date."

So aliens cannot use them at all?Just humans?

White, that is very interesting, indeed. I wonder if all wild life enforcement officers got the memo?

I brought up that very issue with the enforcement guy here. He said there should not be any issues as long as folks in the specified GMU's don't try it.

In much of South central and southeast a beaver must be sealed within 30 days after the season closes.

Sealing means having an authorized ADF&G representative place a seal on an animal hide. Trappers must present the unfrozen hide in person. Frozen hides will not be sealed. The sealing officer will ask questions about when, where and how the animal was taken, and ( with Beaver) take a measurement of the hide.

The seal must remain on the hide until the tanning process has commenced or until the hide has been transported from Alaska.

Dirt is correct. And why they need that information is un-known, even to most of those doing the sealing. Speaking only for this GMU, 1C, we have so many beaver that they are a nuisance. And the department regularly issues permits for take throughout the year, and in areas otherwise closed to trapping.

I understand the sealing requirement for beaver back in the day when there were limits and everyone trapped beaver, but in todays world I feel it is a waste of time and state money. Why the heck they need that info on beaver when populations are so high is a mystery to me.

In my little world of a 100 miles of river creeks and swamps beaver populations have never been high, and currently are at 30 year lows.

I think you maybe missed the point. Hard to use a whole beaver for bait with the hide on in some of the State when they have to be skinned to be sealed. Then that seal has to remain on the hide unless tanned or out of State.

P.S. In some units there there still are limits.

Maybe the experts, did not give this much expert thought?

I had whole unskinned beaver sealed at adfg one time in the past. The 'unfrozen hide' was presented in the round.

That said I would be very hard pressed to use a whole unskinned beaver as bait.......very hard pressed.

As regulation grows it seems inevitable they become a tangled mess....

And why do you need a license to kill mice?

Dirt I have heard rumblings of beaver wars in the valley in order to remove dams for coho spawning, Are they being targeted that way?

Cook Inlet aquaculture used to (maybe still do) remove dams to help Sockeye spawn. Comfish hate our beaver. I have some unexplained beaver die offs the last few years. Don't know if a disease or an unknown program. Personally, my guess is a disease. Pretty widespread. Cook Inlet Aquaculture ( maybe ADF&G or Both) have been targeting the pike and no notice is given to the locals or the AC. You find out when you don't catch any pike and start asking around.

The September season proposed and passed back in 2003 or so was proposed to reduce beaver populations to help the salmon. Like your sheep nonsense for coyotes. Mostly the main river beaver get hammered just like the new shooting regulation probably does. The river beaver really do not hurt salmon runs, their babies could migrate and become a problem in theory.

Well, my question is, can I chunk up a beaver for bait, then use the same animal's hide for bait?
Or suppose I eat said beaver, but want to use strips of the hide at several sets. What then?

There was a retired ADG&G fisheries guy who lived outside of Nome in a housing community spot. Right next to the Nome R. lots of beaver there and other house owners wanted them controlled sometimes. I could swear this fisheries guy hated trappers and the word was that Coho, (silvers) were the one species helped by beaver! His wife was the area bio for Nome for quite some years.
There are beaver in every stream on the Sew. Pen. that is big enough to have water to dam. Side creeks are also dammed. Never seemed to be much talk of beaver hurting salmon runs.

That's a good point Dirt and I will pass that on. However, apparently, once you have the beaver back home, you have met the 'salvage' requirements. If you never present the hide for sealing, how would there be an issue ?

According to what I posted above, the answer is YES . You have salvaged the entire critter. You are free to eat the carcass or not, AND use the hide as bait.

But note the GMU exceptions for 9 & 17

If you did not seal a beaver ( not a hide) in a required sealing area, you would have just broken the law. There would be no issue, if you don't get caught.

IMO if you want to treat beaver like vermin, make them unclassified game.

Well "they" certainly need to get all the conflicting language straightened out at the very least

you guys want to see some convoluted beaver regs look at unit 17 I can trap 30 beaver in a day but can't shoot any in the fall but Dec 1 I can start shooting and take as many as possible in a day lots of fun when it is all froze up then April 15 we can take up to 2 a day with a firearm but we have to eat those 2 but on the same day I can trap 50 and use them all for bait. How about we just say a firearm is a method of take for trapping beaver and be done with it. I can trap a heck of a lot more beaver in one night then I can shoot thats for sure

WOW!

I agree a firearm should be a legal means of take in every unit if you have a trapping license and are doing it during trapping season. Would greatly simplify the regs.

The seal must remain on the hide until the tanning process has commenced.
When does the tanning process commenced?

Mice are are game animals and have a season and bag limit. you must have ether a trapping, or hunting license to take them.

What are the chances of recovering a wounded beaver? What are the odds that every person with a gun and a trapping license will know how and where to shoot beaver and have the skills to recover beaver? Will allowing this harvest method cause a conservation concern? There may be a reason this is not legal in some areas of the State.

Beaver sink after being shot. I don't know if all beaver sink all the time after being shot but I can eyewitness verify that beaver sink after being shot. This is from experience shooting them in Wyoming. If you are on shore and do not have a rod and reel with appropriate tackle, a big retriever breed able to haul them in, a boat or some other way to quickly retrieve the beaver then they can be easily lost.

Dirt, drasselt, the best tool one can have when shooting beaver is a dip net the other thing is shooting them with anything more than a rimfire is IMO stupid I know the concerns just frustrating to have such confusing regs. I also know ATA board has taken a stance agains shooting beaver always made me wonder when a whole bunch of guys go rat shooting every spring.

Dirt I imagine the chances of recovering a wounded beaver are about as high as recovering any other wounded game animal. Every year how many game animals are lost across this state or not even looked for because the hunter assumes they didn't hit the animal due to it running off appearing perfectly fine? Are beaver more valuable than a caribou? Thats like the argument against bear baiting for brown/grizzlies yet everyone being ok with baiting black bears.

I just don't see a huge number of people running out into the wilds to shoot beaver during trapping season if it was legal in all GMU's.

You may not

• Shoot big game animals while they are swimming,

I wonder why?

Shoot in the head with a high power rifle-you wont lose any.
You may lose one size at the auction house.
if you shoot them in a pond from shore with a 22 and they sink-wait a few days and they come up.
Or-rip the dam to natural flow and retrieve in a couple hours.

Except for caribou in some units.

Definitely not because you will lose them due to sinking; not deer species anyway. They float like a cork. I think it because many people think shooting a swimming animal is poor sportsmanship. I don't have any ethical problem with shooting a swimming animal though.

I think you are correct about people thinking its not sporting.

The two big game animals I see swimming here do not look like corks when they are swimming. Head out of water and top of the backs at or near the surface. I know one sinks or at least is neutral bouyant.

I see nothing more or less sporting between shooting a wading animal and a swimming animal. The one wading will be more recoverable. Personally, I'd wait till they got on shore.