Pricing- Nuissance trapping fees

Posted By: booboo

Pricing- Nuissance trapping fees - 09/02/10 10:23 PM

I seem to get more and more calls to do nuissance trapping for beaver, coyotes, racoons and skunks. I never know what I should be charging and am wondering what everyone else that does this is charging.
Posted By: LAtrapper

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/02/10 10:37 PM

You will find quite a bit of information on pricing in the ADC Forum Archive http://www.trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/17/1/Animal_Damage_Control_Archive.html .

Additional information can be found through a 5 year ADVANCED SEARCH for pricing on the ADC Forum.
Posted By: ccary

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/03/10 12:58 AM

in tennessee it must be done for free unless you have a permit and insurance. don't know about your state but just something you need to look at.
Posted By: Lundy

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/03/10 02:06 AM

In MN you can't do it without a DNR permit. The permit is free. But you can't use ANY part of an animal caught under a nuisance permit. You can't sell fur, glands, oils, claws or anything.
Posted By: ccary

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/03/10 03:12 AM

Same here. Our permit is also free, still haven't found that on the required insurance however.lol
Posted By: coonsmasher220

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/04/10 01:31 AM

90 for service call and 50 for animal except skunks which is 70...then price vary on exclusion work and materials
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 02:26 AM

This is one of the biggest problems with this industry. The problem is that most of us came from a trapping back ground. With that said most WCO's I see are still thinking along those lines. How much do you get "per pelt" so a per animal price is used to many times. We need to charge by the hour like any successful business.
We have one fee that includes travel, paper work(including invoicing)special permits, reporting & etc.
We have another higher fee for on site work, which starts when we get on the job site. This way I get paid for every minute I work. This raised our prices very little on easy jobs but if we run into one of those last hard to get critter situations. We have all of our time covered. This also covers you if the client hires you after the other guy screwed things up and put the critters on alert. You get paid to cover that extra time. We lost only one client and our bottom line went through the roof. We don't work weekends, we only work M-F normal hours and there is only 2 of us. I have all three days this weekend off. I will be speaking on this at the WCT seminar in January in Las Vages.
I would love to get the industry to think unlike trappers and more like business people. Trapping in only one of the tools we use, get paid for all you do.
Don LaFountain CWCP
Integrated Wildlife Control
Posted By: Mystic Wildlife

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 11:08 AM

Trapper Don, very interesting. When you head out to check a trap, do you bill for the travel time? Because it doesn't take more that 5 min on site to check an empty trap or remove a critter. Would you charge for the time spent on euthanasia and disposal? This is were I view the per-animal fee as useful.
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 12:25 PM

Do we charge for travel time as well as on site? Yes
We charge in 15 minute blocks of time. On site 5 minutes still 15 minutes. Again you are thinking per animal. The big question is how much are you getting paid for every minute of your time. I see talk here about having to work 7 days a week. This is just nuts. I euthanize on site. But I only deal with beavers so it's easy, but it can be applied to other aniamls also. If you take 5 minutes to remove and use the other 10 minutes at the shop for euthanasia. The price we charge for 15 min. will still be more then most WCO's charge for a per critter fee. Our old price was figured by a consultant at $75.00 per hour. That was 7 years ago. It's a lot higher now more then double. I can't cover all this here but I will at WCT sorry.
One other note, I am here to make money and a good living. If my clients aren't willing to pay me my rate I send them to the state list for a cheaper price. We have a reputation for finishing the job and standing behind our work and we work steady and don't have to chase every call. I also don't advertise and have all the work we need so there is another way.
Posted By: Paul Winkelmann

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 03:15 PM

Looking forward to seeing Don in Las Vegas. One of a very few people who make a good living doing just one species!
Posted By: swampdonkey

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 04:09 PM

YES Don is Real good and known well around these parts for his beaver work...I don't know him personally, but I do know of his respected reputation.
Posted By: scott rainbolt

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 04:42 PM

use to charge by the animal didnt make much money found i was just keeping a even bank account. then i got to thinking people pay me well for plumbing work and it wasnt for the work it was for what i knew how to do. imo adc trappers should be making around as much as any contractor in the area there in. it aint because you can catch an animal its because you have the skill and resorces to catch that animal. we do so much more then just set a cage trap out wit some cat food in it we do inspectons we do animal control we do general contractor work and most important we give the home owner peace of mind. so with that in mind around here animal control makes around 30.000 a year contractors around 50.000. if your happy catching skunks for 40 a head im happy for you but i realize im not getting any younger and i have my future to think of i will not work and break even im in this to make money and as much as i can. i was working for a doctor and after the job was done and we where done he asked me if i wanted some advice from an old man that had spent most of his time in school i said sure . flat told me son your not charging anuff for what you do i asked y he thought that he simply said if i got sick and went to the doctors office and they didnt know what was wrong with me a simple phone call and in 2 hours he could have a team off a couple 100 docs. if he needed but get a plan old skunk under your house and you have to call 50 people and spend 3 weeks to find 1 guy that knows how and can do the job right he said think on that one son
Posted By: Ron Scheller

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 05:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Trapper Don
I see talk here about having to work 7 days a week. This is just nuts.

While I can see it would be easily possible to work a set schedule if you specialize in one species, that type of schedule does not "fit" in urban wildlife control. We are in a service business, and in many cases it requires immediate response. I often feel like I'm running the ER in a hospital.... when a coon falls through a ceiling tile at 2 AM on Saturday morning, you don't tell the caller you will see them on Monday morning. Same as a snake in the house on Sunday afternoon... they are not going to wait for a solution. I know there are guys who "pass" on weekend calls or shut the phone off, but this type of service is not one that fits set hours. We must often operate on the animals schedule, which is 24/7.

States like mine (IL) have daily trap check laws, and if I'm solving an animal problem for a client I will not pick my traps up for the weekend. I will follow through on the job regardless of what day of the week it happens to be. Sure, if I have a bunch of mole jobs going I can wait a couple days to check (trap-check law doesn't apply to moles), but when I'm getting squirrels or raccoons out for a home builder, commercial customer, or just an ordinary homeowner I am going to perform the trapping program and any repairs/exclusion regardless of what day of the week it is.

The "per animal" thing is definitely a carry-over thought from fur trapping.... and I dropped that type of pricing 15 years ago. We are providing a professional service, not hobby trapping. Would a roofer charge "by the shingle" to remove and replace a roof? No... they figure the time (maybe using per square as a basic guideline) and add labor, misc materials, travel, etc. Same way I figure jobs.... by the job. The issue of pricing has so many variables.... and there is certainly a big difference between rural jobs (predator control or muskrat/beaver removal) and urban work.
Posted By: Kirk

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/05/10 09:25 PM

you have to have a state certifcation here dosnt cost anything but you have to pass a test and turn in paper work at the end of the year saying how many of each animal you caught what you did with it and where it was caught at (which parish )
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/06/10 02:42 AM

Ron I hear you. I have been in this business for about 20 years and have delt with all the usual animals. Here I am required to do daily trap check also. The part I think is nuts comes from an earlier post I didnít reply to where the question was ďWhat do you do with your traps on weekends?Ē I always start a trapping program on Monday and I would get 5 days of trapping in and wire my traps open and call it pre-baiting. This way I got quality time at home. In most cases the problem has been there for a while and as long the client knows we are on the job and will take care of it thatís all they want.
I find that in most cases we can set a normal schedule with a little planning.
I understand the need for emergency services or the builder who want it done now and we have all done it. I chose not to anymore so I could cut down on my stress. You are one who saw the price problem and your pricing a job like a contractor is excellent. I am sure your pricing is based on what you need to get to cover costs AKA per hour is a good method. I see so many posts on pricing and a large amount of them lean toward the per-animal price. Some add checking fees but the base is per animal.
I donít knock anyone for that and I hope I didnít offend anyone.
Scott said it when he compared us to contractors. We are just that.
I donít want anyone to change their services just get paid for all they do.

I have a story I use in talks and Scott hit on it. Here is the short version.
There is a lumber company and its run by a large diesel generator. One day it quits and 20 guys are sitting around and costing the company a boat load, So they call a service guy. He shows up and is told what it did and he says I can fix that right now. It will be $750.00 and the boss writes a check right off. The guy takes a screwdriver and turns a screw a ľ turn and starts the thing up. The whole place is back to work and 20 guys are working. The boss freaks out and yells. I paid you $750.00 to turn a screw?
The service tech says no. you paid me because I knew which screw to turn.

It would be good for everyone to write down everything they do for their clients. Include things like, we hide traps to protect our clients privacy. Things like that and everything else like that. I think all would see that they are not charging enough.
Again I am sorry if I offended anyone. I donít post often because it harder to say it here then in person.
Looking forward to meeting you Paul. Been reading you stuff for a long time.
Posted By: Paul Winkelmann

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/06/10 04:27 AM

We've met a couple of times but I was just another face in the crowd. You, on the other hand. are pretty easy to recognise.
Posted By: gopherkiller

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/06/10 05:42 AM

lets not forget what it is worth to the customer and what they can afford. I get tired of getting my bolls busted for what i charge and then hearing that they (the customer) is late for their golf date... or they just had to spend 2K on their boat to have a scrtch buffed out from the darn lawn care guy. I think we are quite skilled at what we do and should charge accordingly. IMO
most trapping jobs take at least four trips plus removing and disposing of the critter(s). repairing the damage and the knowledge to keep it from happening again. Do yourself a favor and charge to stay in business, not to be a nice guy.
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/06/10 12:14 PM

I thought we met but I wasn't sure. I remember faces but can never remember names. I am still looking forward to re-meeting you.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 02:53 AM

i charge a flat rate fee for max of 5 days trapping my fees are as following
125.00 for squirrels mice,rats
175.00 skunks
295.00/350.00 coons
300.00/350.00 beavers
350.00/400.00 coyotes,fox
bats 175.00
all these prices do not include exclusion services ,damage repais,or service call which i charge 65.00
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 03:19 AM

I can't see how you even pay your bills at those prices. Sorry
My old flat rates for everything we did was 150.00 inspection
450.00 set up fee and 150.00 per animal caught
These are the old prices and don't included exclusion. We don't use those anymore because it was to low. Think out side the trapping box. One the guys above said he figures each job and thats how contractors do it. Try that method. You have no idea what the animals will do and what if it goes longer then 5 days? Figure out how much you need a month to make a good living and work back from there based on you average amount of jobs.
At 400.00 for one coyote/fox job every 2 days, you will find it hard to make a decent living and pay bills and buy equipment, advertising, and give your family security in the future.
125.00 for squirrels at one new job a day will not even be worth going out for. I hope you'll look at what others have said here and re think your pricing. You don't charge enough.
You offer more to your clients then you are charging for.
If I offended you I am sorry but I want everyone in this industry to get paid what they are worth.

Don LaFountain
Posted By: scott rainbolt

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 03:35 AM

x2 don
Posted By: Vinke

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 05:14 AM

i am moving to mass with LT a putting don out of business.... smile

Posted By: RF Wildlife

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 06:25 AM

Being a tradesman myself seems to me a lot of you sell yourself short. I am just starting to get into this myself, but look around there are literally hundreds of company's doing tradesman work, carpentry etc that's thousands of guys working for them. I just counted there are 237 nwco certified people in Ct. My numbers may be off a bit used a government web site for my info http://www.ct.gov/dep/lib/dep/wildlife/pdf_files/nwco/nwcodir.pdf but you get my point. Maybe I am totally off thinking this I am on the outside looking in. The only variable that I can think of that is missing is the number of problems salved by nwcos in the state. I have been trying to find numbers of calls and jobs done animal amounts reported to the state but cannot seem to locate them.
Posted By: Dave Shumway

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 09:52 AM

Originally Posted By: daveh
i charge a flat rate fee for max of 5 days trapping my fees are as following
125.00 for squirrels mice,rats
175.00 skunks
295.00/350.00 coons
300.00/350.00 beavers
350.00/400.00 coyotes,fox
bats 175.00
all these prices do not include exclusion services ,damage repais,or service call which i charge 65.00

daveh, you only charge 125.00 for 5 days of daily trap checks? (I'm assuming you have a daily trap check law). Seems very low to me.
Posted By: swampdonkey

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 10:28 AM

Daveh...Very Very Low...I'd have a hard time paying for my fuel..
Posted By: Mystic Wildlife

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 03:28 PM

Don, Thanks for the info. I'll bet the ban on trapping in Mass has you pretty busy dealing with the nuissance beavers. Are the customers residential, commercial or a mix?
Posted By: sgs

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 04:33 PM

Trapper Don and swampdonkey, are homeowners themselves allowed to trap problem animals in MA?
Posted By: Dave Shumway

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: sgs
Trapper Don and swampdonkey, are homeowners themselves allowed to trap problem animals in MA?

A homeowner can do just about anything in MA when it comes to problem animals.(except for relocation, which is illegal for everyone)
This includes the use of leg holds and body grippers which are banned for use by trappers. The only exception on conibears for trappers is they can be used for beaver/muskrat on a 10-day permit issued by the local board-of-health. There are other provisions and exceptions but as you can imagine, it would take up considerable space and time to put it all on here. Plus everyone would fall asleep before they got to the end of it.
Posted By: swampdonkey

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 06:17 PM

Thats so true
Posted By: Paul Winkelmann

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 07:15 PM

There is a sign on every road leading into Massachusetts and it says:


*and those with painted toenails DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT!!!
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 09:18 PM

Iím going to try to make sure I respond to each one properly.
Youíll have a hard time finding me as I donít advertise. All my jobs are now under long term contracts. If you guys come let me know so I can have someone to send all the price shoppers to lol.

The prices I just posted were for general work. Beaver prices are different and higher. My work is now all commercial, Government, Rail Roads, Power Companies, Water Sheds/Supplies.
I will raise some hairs with this next statement for sure.
The trap ban had little effect on us either more work or harder to do. Do to the lack of a good fur market; we are at a population now that we would have been at anyway. It made it come quicker. I saw the increase in beaver population before the ban and I was getting paid to solve beaver problems then also. My clients donít want part timers because they want all the beaver gone where necessary. The trapping method of sustainable harvest is not what they want or need. I am not saying itís wrong, it just donít work in most situations. The last beaver has to go and if it takes a month, DO IT. We donít invoice until that one is gone and we do charge for our time. A per animal price will not cover the cost.

Pointerman is correct. The home owner can trap on their own land and need no permits or license or training for that matter. Most will not do it.
He is also right about the permits from the BOH. The can be hard to get unless you know how to word things. We are the oneís who trained the Health agents for DEP years ago and we also designed the form and gave it to the state. No one there knew how to or what to put on it. That is the short side and again Pointerman is right it would put you to sleep hearing it all or reading it.

Out of state trappers are welcome but theyíre smart enough to stay the [Please excuse my language... I'm an idiot] away. LOL
Don LaFountain
Posted By: swampdonkey

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/07/10 11:56 PM

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 12:15 AM

not-to low for me as most of the time i wrap up the complaint with in a day or so im on any job less then 5 or 10 min for trap checks and removals a do on an average of between 10 -15 call's a day all with in a 25 30 mile radius of my office and my normal hr are 7am -4pm mf and off sat and sun except for emergency calls which the rates are more
Posted By: Vinke

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 04:10 AM

Youíll have a hard time finding me as I donít advertise.

How did I do????



Donald A Lafountain

8x Xxiss St
, MA 01062-2606
(413) 58x-9x7x
Posted By: Trapper Don

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 11:19 AM

Not bad but thats my home address and my home phone number and the other is just contact info. Now find were I work, me on the road, my real office, and how to get my work. If your going to give me a run for my money. My contracts don't come up for bid for another 5 years, so tread water till then. But you did good pilgrim. Looking forward to seeing you here. give me a call and the first pint is on me. Oh yeah here is my other web site to help you. See you soon. lol

Take care
Posted By: Vinke

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 01:37 PM

All in good fun Don....... All in good fun.....

(telling me it can't be done is a major motivator for me)
Posted By: sgs

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 03:57 PM

I don't know how you Massachusetts guys do it. If I charged $300+ to catch a skunk I doubt I'd get any work at all. As it is, charging $75 setup and $50 per animal, I get turned down on half the jobs I get calls for.

Very few contractors get $100/hr in my area. You can get a plumber or electrician in to do work for $65/hr. pretty much any day. Carpenters, painters, flooring, auto mechanics, landscapers, etc. are all charging less.

At my current pricing, I'm averaging about $40/hr (after expenses) on skunks and most of that time is just driving.
Posted By: Paul Winkelmann

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 04:37 PM

sqs, after a while of reading what other guys charge, you realise that the country is made up of many different life styles. I would certainly expect guys on the east and west coasts to charge more than me in the midwest.

The cost of living is probably cheapest in the Dakotas and most expensive in parts of New York And California. ( I read an article that said a $150,000 home in North Dakota would cost just about a million bucks in parts of California )

What I like to do is see how my prices compare to what everyone else is charging. If I end up in the upper middle half, I'm satisfied.
Posted By: swampdonkey

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 07:23 PM

This is what I get for skunk in Ma. Inspection & Set-up fee $ 130.00 ..$65.00/$75.00 per head depending on location & situation..This is if i do the job on a per head ..This per head price still sticks on jobs if skunk is caught as non target..or they can keep it & not many folks want a skunk
Posted By: Mike K.

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 09:08 PM

In SW Missouri I charge a $95 setup fee and $65 per skunk, groundhog or armadillo within a 30 mile radius. Just about every inspection turns into a sale, especially with skunks. I've been told that my prices are too low but for now I'm sticking to them. With skunks I set at least two and sometimes three traps and usually catch something in all of them. So three skunks @ $65 is well worth the daily trip - especially if you're running moles as well. Moles plans are $195/$50 and $295/$50 with full service descriptions on the website. When I get a call from a prospect they are pretty much ready to sign.
Posted By: HD_Wildlife

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 09:26 PM

How many of you guys wonder about other factors when you see these posts? As a few have stated including paul certainly the area and income levels come into play.

How about the way a company is presenting themselves and of course as has been mentioned the salesmanship or abilities of the company. I know that there is a huge spread in this forum and in the industry in these categories which to me makes it hard for folks to compare apples to apples.

If your in a professional looking rig, in uniform or clean attire etc...versus a simple setup with a loose muffler and looking like I just rolled out of bed and smellin like a good bottle of lure,

to me those are more of the factors that play into sale / no sale and thats me as a customer as well as a service provider.

Impressions cost or make money in my mind along with the economics/politics of an area or client base

Posted By: Paul Winkelmann

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 11:01 PM

hd, I didn't mention presentation because it's not much of a factor in our urban/suburban area. My competition is well groomed, well trained, ( Except for the new guys and they're learning ) and their equipment is not shoddy.

We are very aware of our competition and really enjoy telling customers who they had before. This really blows them away. We do not steal a lot of customers from our competitors but we take plenty from pest control companies and we're going to talk about that in Vegas.

Let's face it; some of these people that call can barely afford FREE!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/08/10 11:19 PM

no offenses here but when i put between 4-5000 in my pocket almost every week for removal and exclusion work i have to be doing something right and probably starting later this fall i am going to start doing pest control ie interior exterior sprays for bed bugs roaches etc my license should be here this week or next as a pesticide applicator
Posted By: HD_Wildlife

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/09/10 03:48 AM

looking forward to meeting you and the others Paul in Vegas lots of good talks and I'm sure other opportunities to learn.

Posted By: Probtrapper

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/09/10 04:11 AM

I kind of resisted replying to this post as this subject has been hashed over a ton of times here but.....it always amazes me when someone comes on and states there is only one right way to run a adc business and if your're not doing it my way your're doing it wrong. Unless you've have worked in every part of the country there is no way you can say one pricing structure fits all. I'am going to try to address some of the statements made here and hope that it might shed some light on how we run our business. I'am not about to say it's the ONLY way to run your business but it has worked for us pretty well for 17yrs. next month. 1: I live and work in a very small market (roughly 200,000 people in the two connties I am lic. to work in) area that is mostly rural,ranches/farms. If you were to specialize in one or two animals you would not be in business in 6 months. To stay solvent you have to do everything from moles to mountain lions and everything in between. 2: We absolutly have to work 7 days a week. Try telling a almound farmer that calls you to catch beaver that are falling 4 trees a night at a thousand dollars apice "I know it's Thursday and tomarrow, being Friday, I'll be pulling my traps and I'll be back Monday to reset 'cause I don't work on weekends" and see how he reacts to that. 3: We DO charge a per animal fee for everything except exclusion work and bat work, for these kind of jobs of course we charge a per job fee. My ranchers and farmers aren't cheep but they are frugal meaning they just don't throw their money at something their not getting any benifit out of. Such as if I were to take them a contract to sign them up for a year of adc work, the polite ones would say something like "I'll get back to you on that" but most would ask me why I'am wasting their valuable time with this and to put it where the sun don't shine! And I would agree with them because most of the year they won't need my services. They have no problem paying my service call/set up fee and our per animal fee as they see it as only paying for what they get. Again Iam not saying this is the only way to run an adc business but for us, in our area, it has worked out well.

Posted By: Vinke

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/09/10 05:36 AM

versus a simple setup with a loose muffler and looking like I just rolled out of bed and smellin like a good bottle of lure,

I've was a Kirby salesman in a suit once.... whistle (actually it was Vorwick....and they were not vacuums/carpet cleaners,BUT dry cleaning and extraction units,,,,)

Now I were Flip Flops......

(Cloths do not Raise your intelligence or increase your people skills,,,,,,,)
Posted By: HD_Wildlife

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/09/10 03:07 PM

Vinke - Flip flops or not I understand what your saying and agree it does come down to people skills, just know after being in multiple industries and situations that some folks do judge the book by its cover even though I'd prefer they didn't. Some of the best people I'll ever know don't give a "hoot" what anyone thinks of the way they dress or that they use castor for cologne! lol!

hard to say much on this forum or any other for that matter without the "tone" of the post getting perceived correctly

My feet are way too ugly for flip flops! smile
Posted By: Paul Winkelmann

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/09/10 03:47 PM

hd, it will be great to put some faces to these posts.

Bob Hassel, sounds like a lot of people could envy you. My old man was a cattle dealer so I know a little bit about dealing with farmers. My dad never made a pile of money but he loved his work and judging by the amount of people who attended his funeral, was well liked. I don't think a man can ask for too much more out of life.

Vinke only wears flip flops to show off his toenails.
Posted By: Probtrapper

Re: Nuissance trapping fees - 09/09/10 07:51 PM

Paul, I don't know about the envy thing but it sounds like your dad and I had a few things in common like loving what we do and probably not ever making a pile of money.

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