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Marten set tutorial

Posted By: Bushman

Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 05:49 AM

Marten's are at historic highs. Some trappers regard martens as easy to catch but to me it's about trapping them in a efficient and sustainable manner. For example I've taken over 1000 marten off one of my traplines over the years and still harvest the same averages today. All while my line has been heavily industrialized. I have some management practices like supplemental feeding and quick trapline rotation that I think has helped.

I'm going to post a series of different style sets I make and why. I'd encourage other marten trappers to do the same and lets keep it picture heavy. Also I'd like to stay on topic so the post can be of future value perhaps.

Here's hoping for $200 Averages!
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:02 AM





This is a box I whipped together the other day. I discovered an area opened up that I hadn't anticipated and wasn't prepared for. I needed to make 2 dozen boxes in an hour or so. I also wanted to be able to easily pack them. I rough cut strips 7.5" wide by 16" long out of 3/8" plywood. I used three pieces for each box - two sides that I cut notches in - and a top. The bottom is a seperate piece of 3/4" plywood the same dimensions.

I drilled holes in the corner of the three pieces and loosely joined the sides with the top, and then folded them flat. I stacked the bottom piece on top and put a wrap of tape around to hold the package together. For the backs, because I was in a hurry, I cut heavy pieces of cardboard that I fastened in the field.

At my set I nailed the base piece down using 2- 2" shingle nails. I had my cordless drill so I put two screws into each side, right into the base piece. I used 1" screws in case I need to use a hand screw driver. Once the base and sides were screwed tight I pulled the zip-ties tight and the box solidifed. I wrapped the cardboard around the back and used a couple more short screws to hold it in place.

Since then I've made back pieces that are 8" x 8" with a 1.5" wood piece attached to one edge like a" L "shape. I just screw the 1.5" piece into the side of the box with one screw. It took me longer to type this then it did to build it in the field. Finished off with bait in an onion bag and marten lure on a cotton swab or dry stick.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:09 AM





Here you can see boxes stacked on front end of quad. Try doing that with a couple dozen assembled boxes
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:15 AM




I don't make this style of set anymore. However I have harvested many marten back in the day like this. I also used to make small tin plates with 90 degree bent up lips to hold the bodygrip jaws. I've seen guys use large tin can lids nailed through the center of the can and then bend the edges up over the jaws.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:34 AM




My making money set. I can set this one up quickly and move it in seconds.

I use 16" pieces of lath. I nail one end of the lath on to my leaning pole or horizontal tree. I slide the box under the un-nailed end of the lath and pull it until its tight. sometimes I have to place a small stick under the back of the box to lever it a bit highter to 'tighten' it up.

The bait is in my bait onion bags, and I pull the tag end of the bait bag through one of the holes drilled in the back of the plastic box. I believe the red colour of the bags is an attractant to marten. I've seen them feeding on frozen mountain ash berries in the winter which are bright red.

When it's time to pull the set I just have to back it off the lath and move on. The following year i can slide back onto the existing lath. I have sets where I've used the lath strips for years.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:42 AM






You'll notice when I use the boxes on a horizontal tree I put a small branch through the trap springs. Downside of plastic is it can be slippery but pressure on springs keep it in place. My buddy uses peel and stick sandpaper on the the bottom of box
Posted By: Trapper_243

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:56 AM

I make my sets almost similar to yours as well. I have just learn about the spruce boughs on the tree to make a box and have taken about 5 marten with it last year and some with just a regular box on the ground. As well as a 120 nailed to a leaning pole with a bough over top of the trap.


Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:21 AM

This is the box I use on my early lines.I am done trapping these lines by end of Nov,first week of Dec.so heavy snow is not an issue.The bait needs to be changed frequently when trapping early and is easy to do with this box set up.
Extensive field tests were done here in late 80's and early 90's,and the vertical box opening up was a top marten producer.Downside was more incidentals and not always the best strike location,and not the best for mid winter.

This is the box I use when I want some eye appeal in a more open setting-marten hunt by sight.The way I set this box up is two nails,to attach the box on a dry spruce runner,one nail in runner to tree and 11 ga wire from the stub over the top of the box and around the tree.The opening is about a foot to 18 in from the tree trunk,and the wire discourages the marten from climbing on top of the box and knocking the trap out.The stub allows whiskeyjacks to feed on the bait from the back and attract marten.The downside to this box is the bait is quickly consumed by rodents,and incidentals are higher.According to our field studies it is a good marten producer,and works well all season,and you get a good strike location.

This box is the bomb when it comes to marten trapping.Bait lasts a long time in this box.It is weatherproof requiring no maintenance even in the heaviest snow.With the proper trigger configuration(L-shape towards tree trunk)you always get a double strike(no pelt dmg and very humane)With screen on top the whiskeyjacks can work the bait for attraction.Minimal incidental catch with the vertical box opening down.This is the go-to box for the winter lines.Notice the very narrow slots-this is what holds the trap in place.In field studies this was one of the top marten producers.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:41 AM

Good thread! Judging by last years harvest I dont think Yukon marten are at historic highs. I have always been of the opinion that since marten are so easy to catch, sets should be simple and very quick. Brian I really like your folding boxes....never seen that before. Here is how I do it....my all time favorite and by far the fastest is the permanent Gibb box. Got this idea from Jim Gibb a few years ago....now lots of trappers in Yukon are using it.

The Gibb box



This box is only 6 inches deep.....I can carry 3-dozen nested together in my ski-doo box....downside is the bait has to be wired in......I can have this box set in under 2 minutes



For extremely rough trails where weight is an issue I use snares.....they are about as light as you can get and very effective.
Posted By: Ronaround

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 01:09 PM

I notice you use conibear 120's for all your sets. would a 110 work as well or the main porpose is stability at the set site?
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 01:25 PM

110's not certified in canada and the extra spring makes traps more stable





This style of box uses corplast for sides and top with wood for a base. Again a light box that can be transported. I have corplast boxes that have been hanging in the bush for a decade and still working. I use old real estate signs.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 01:30 PM




Here's an interesting one. I saw this cardboard box design at BC convention last year. Trapper uses them when setting up new area and changes out to wood box once line is established
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 01:41 PM

That's a poachers box bushman lol.
Posted By: Fergustrap

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 02:46 PM

better advice to give on marten is set double at best spot you have.you cannot take 2 marten with only one trap at same time, and if you catch squirrel or weasel or sprung trap at lonely set this is out for marten, so with double set your odd is always better. When i try a new spot for the first time and not sure of the location i,m use only one set but if it,s a real nice spot dont hesited to make double, you dont regreted for sure. i have some trouble with gibb box system, with ice and snow on lower jaw, maybe because the step at entrance give it. i like this king of box but cut the step just add pole for access is solution for me
Posted By: Fergustrap

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 03:09 PM


notice like i,m built my box , all my lumber have the same size(wide)like skill saw, that,s type of built is better (HD) than traditional builting like use top, bottom and 2 sides
Posted By: Fergustrap

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 03:13 PM

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Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 03:48 PM

I have/do use sets similar to most above, (Though no snares), but we can't leave out the flower pot set. Very light, stackable, weather-proof, and fast. In fact, all you really need at the set, other than the pot and trap is a tree.


And I totally agree with making at least two sets at most locations,

Sometimes as simple as this, with a box on the pole and a pot next to it.
Most times just a couple pots, for me.
Great thread Bushman!
Posted By: Tundra 300

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 04:25 PM

Use mostly boxes mounted horizontally on a log or tree, very easy to spot for the marten and can quickly check the trap as i go by on snow machine.




If i see tracks in a new area and don't have any boxes along, i cut out a tree and set the trap in there.



Again making sure i can easily check the set as i go by not wasting any time.
Posted By: holdengr

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 04:44 PM

This is something I have been tinkering with. I basically copied the Donahue set with some small improvements.


the cone is just some aluminum flashing, cut rectangular, riveted together then trimmed the square edges.




I have seen guys use nails or a piece of 1x2 to hold the trap. I used a Killer clip to hold the conibear. The main reason is that you can firmly stabilize the trap without increasing the pressure on the trigger.



A screw as a bait holder



I have caught a few marten and fisher in them but I'm still testing.






Pro's
- they set up fast with just the back of the axe
- I can fit 30 or more in a milk crate
- keeps the whiskey jacks out
- perfect for investigating a new area before committing to heavy wooden boxes
- small and compact, hard to see from the trail-reduce theft if that's a concern

Con's
- only hold a small piece of bait
- white ones seem to attract flying squirrels like crazy
- sometimes have to search around for the cone if it flies off when the trap fires
- small and compact, hard to see from the trail- no drive by checking these at any distance.



Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 05:21 PM

Holdengr I do something similar to yours. I bought a huge pack of wooden shims for like $4 and use a barkers conimount and instead of the flashing I'm using flower pots with the lip cut off so it slips behind the wooden shim. I like these sets because they are snow/ bird proof but I don't like having to carry a bunch of coni's around to replace the ones with marten in them so I still use the ol' leaning pole with a #1 or #0 longspring a lot too
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 05:32 PM

When we did the 3 year field study,the wire boxes,tin boxes and boxes on posts were the poorest marten producers.
Small boxes that limited the size of the bait were very poor producers.A box that could accommodate at least a lb.of beaver meat was a much better producer.
Boxes on the ground were good marten producers but were rejected because of pelt damage from rodents,and too much mtc in winter-loss of bait etc.
Boxes painted white attracted an inordinate amount of squirrels for some reason.


Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 05:39 PM

For the life of me I can't imagine why a marten would care what the box is made of or what the orientation of it might be. I don't see any way in a study to control all the possible variables that will affect the results of the experiment.

Not trying to hijack the thread. Just a question in my mind.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 05:56 PM

Originally Posted By: white17
For the life of me I can't imagine why a marten would care what the box is made of or what the orientation of it might be. I don't see any way in a study to control all the possible variables that will affect the results of the experiment.

Not trying to hijack the thread. Just a question in my mind.


Agreed, marten are not hard to catch.... the big marten producers all have a quick system figured out and they certainly dont use a pound of bait at each set.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 05:58 PM

The study was very comprehensive,and followed all scientific protocols.It was set up and overseen by some of the foremost furbearer biologists in North America,and used 30 odd seasoned marten trappers from some of the best Marten country in North America.

No one tried to read the Martens mind but just applied the variables over 3 seasons and crunched the numbers at the end of the study.A couple of the results I related in the above post,It may or may not be useful.

Similar,most likely, to how a wolf tends not to stick his head in a 330.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:41 PM

Maybe it's just me but it seems you Canadian boys go a bit overboard to catch marten. Belisles 120's at $138.95 a dozen?? I could buy 2 dozen bridger 120 mags for that price. Wooden boxes??? heavy, don't stack, expensive, time consuming, and the squirrels, porcupines, and bears will destroy them anyway when you could use flower pots that are cheap, lite, stackable, and can bring back at the end of the season so they don't get destroyed. Just doesn't seem economical to me especially since Marten are easy to catch.................
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:44 PM

Well this is all I'll add here because I don't want the thread to go this direction..BUT.

If you trap an area in year 1, with a particular type set, the next year a different set and the third year a different set..those years can't be comparable because the area has been trapped before. How do you control for that variable ? There is no way to control for the fluctuations in population.

OK suppose you set the three set types all in the same year. Not every location is the same so maybe no marten see certain sets. Or, lets say you set all three types next to each other or within a few yards. The marten will get caught in the first set he sees. How is that scientific ? Unless a guy could catch ten out of ten marten (or close to that) in one of those three sets, I don't believe you can draw any conclusions.

As far as using a pound of bait, how does a marten decide how much a bait weighs? My baits usually weigh less that one ounce and have no meat on them at all. In my opinion, the results can be better explained by the fact that a larger bait may require a larger box and the marten may be more inclined to enter the larger space than smaller ones.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 06:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
The study was very comprehensive,and followed all scientific protocols.It was set up and overseen by some of the foremost furbearer biologists in North America,and used 30 odd seasoned marten trappers from some of the best Marten country in North America.

No one tried to read the Martens mind but just applied the variables over 3 seasons and crunched the numbers at the end of the study.A couple of the results I related in the above post,It may or may not be useful.

Similar,most likely, to how a wolf tends not to stick his head in a 330.


And yet, you use ground cubbys. For SHAME! smile
Posted By: holdengr

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Birchcreekkid
Holdengr I do something similar to yours. I bought a huge pack of wooden shims for like $4 and use a barkers conimount and instead of the flashing I'm using flower pots with the lip cut off so it slips behind the wooden shim. I like these sets because they are snow/ bird proof but I don't like having to carry a bunch of coni's around to replace the ones with marten in them so I still use the ol' leaning pole with a #1 or #0 longspring a lot too


I have been looking for some pots to add to my setup. Should fit on just like the cones i have and they would hold a good large chunk of bait.

Originally Posted By: Birchcreekkid
Maybe it's just me but it seems you Canadian boys go a bit overboard to catch marten. Belisles 120's at $138.95 a dozen?? I could buy 2 dozen bridger 120 mags for that price. Wooden boxes??? heavy, don't stack, expensive, time consuming, and the squirrels, porcupines, and bears will destroy them anyway when you could use flower pots that are cheap, lite, stackable, and can bring back at the end of the season so they don't get destroyed. Just doesn't seem economical to me especially since Marten are easy to catch.................


One word, AIHTS.

The Belisles are reasonably priced and are certified under the AIHTS agreement. Thats why I like them.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:19 PM

Originally Posted By: Birchcreekkid
Maybe it's just me but it seems you Canadian boys go a bit overboard to catch marten. Belisles 120's at $138.95 a dozen?? I could buy 2 dozen bridger 120 mags for that price. Wooden boxes??? heavy, don't stack, expensive, time consuming, and the squirrels, porcupines, and bears will destroy them anyway when you could use flower pots that are cheap, lite, stackable, and can bring back at the end of the season so they don't get destroyed. Just doesn't seem economical to me especially since Marten are easy to catch.................


I do lose some of the permanent boxes but not as many as you would think. I have lots that have been in service for more than 10-years. As for traps, yes you can buy cheaper traps but I will catch more marten. My favorite marten trap is the Savegeu 2000-5. Last year I kept track and with the Belisles I missed 19 marten.....with the 2000-5s I missed none.

I have tried the flower pots.....to much messing around.....I want a box that the trap will fit inside and stay there with no nails or wire needed to hold it in place. My wooden boxes do stack together, and I can have a set put in in under 2 minutes. IMO lure is more important than bait....I use either Gusto or Marten Magic....even at -40 it leaves a scent trail.
Posted By: 357xp

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Birchcreekkid
Maybe it's just me but it seems you Canadian boys go a bit overboard to catch marten. Belisles 120's at $138.95 a dozen?? I could buy 2 dozen bridger 120 mags for that price. Wooden boxes??? heavy, don't stack, expensive, time consuming, and the squirrels, porcupines, and bears will destroy them anyway when you could use flower pots that are cheap, lite, stackable, and can bring back at the end of the season so they don't get destroyed. Just doesn't seem economical to me especially since Marten are easy to catch.................

well for us its not a big deal hauling in boxes, trapline is very flat, no hills. Throw in a couple boxes each trip, no big deal. and i have to agree with yukon, once they are screwed on there is no messing around, trap stays in the box really nice. what works for best for us doesnt have to work best for you guys. smile

we did find a couple ruined boxes last trip in but they are fixable, a few were torn down but not as many as we had expected.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:46 PM

"As for traps, yes you can buy cheaper traps but I will catch more marten." I have a hard time believing that because I buy expensive traps I will catch more marten, I know guys that catch 100 plus marten a year on cheap duke #0 longsprings ($62 a dozen). I looked up the savegeu 2001-5 and I can see why nobody here uses them at that price as they are more expensive than Belisles!!!
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 07:51 PM

Yes to each there own, I'm frugal I guess and prefer to maximize my profits especially with the price of gas these days. I plan on using the snowshoes more this year for side lines to save money so I'm glad we can still use footholds here........
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:09 PM

I believe you would need to peruse the entire data to answer all your questions White,but for example-here is a paragraph on the kania trap.
In 1989 and 1990 the Kania trap caught significantly fewer martens\100 trap nights than the LDL contained,conibear box horizontal,box open up,box open down,box on post,tin box on post.In 1990 and 1991 after enlarging the bait compartment to accommodate a larger bait the kania capture rate increased 1.7 fold.Bait was now the same as trapper standard one half kilo of meat,in the Trappers Box (Hauth Box) and Bird Box.

Visitations as well as captures was recorded.A visit occurred if a marten was captured or if there were marten tracks within 15 meters of the set.
Trappers were selected for their willingness to participate and to keep consistent and accurate records.Having a sizeable marten quota was a prerequisite.
Because the study was designed as a complete factorial with traplines as randomized blocks we assumed homogeneity among traplines and pooled data from all traplines for scientific analysis.
Project co-ordinators accompanied trappers in the field throughout the winter on a regular basis to ensure protocols were being followed and that trappers did not deviate from their original instructions.
Comparisons of ratios among trap and set types used maximum likelihood of goodness-of -fit tests adjusted by Williams correction factor.Multiple comparisons based on \100 trap nites of \100 visits were performed by evaluating overlap of simultaneous confidence intervals of proportions.Multiple comparisons of ratios were performed using a stepwise test procedure.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:16 PM

Dirt,I don't set ground boxes for marten-those are on water for mink.I cant help it if the Marten don't know the difference,lol.
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
I believe you would need to peruse the entire data to answer all your questions White,but for example-here is a paragraph on the kania trap.
In 1989 and 1990 the Kania trap caught significantly fewer martens\100 trap nights than the LDL contained,conibear box horizontal,box open up,box open down,box on post,tin box on post.In 1990 and 1991 after enlarging the bait compartment to accommodate a larger bait the kania capture rate increased 1.7 fold.Bait was now the same as trapper standard one half kilo of meat,in the Trappers Box (Hauth Box) and Bird Box.

Visitations as well as captures was recorded.A visit occurred if a marten was captured or if there were marten tracks within 15 meters of the set.
Trappers were selected for their willingness to participate and to keep consistent and accurate records.Having a sizeable marten quota was a prerequisite.
Because the study was designed as a complete factorial with traplines as randomized blocks we assumed homogeneity among traplines and pooled data from all traplines for scientific analysis.
Project co-ordinators accompanied trappers in the field throughout the winter on a regular basis to ensure protocols were being followed and that trappers did not deviate from their original instructions.
Comparisons of ratios among trap and set types used maximum likelihood of goodness-of -fit tests adjusted by Williams correction factor.Multiple comparisons based on \100 trap nites of \100 visits were performed by evaluating overlap of simultaneous confidence intervals of proportions.Multiple comparisons of ratios were performed using a stepwise test procedure.



Thanks Boco. That pretty much confirms my suspicions that the marten enters the box because it's bigger, not because of the size of the bait.

Also, 15 meters is a long ways as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't consider that a 'visitation'. That just points out how completely subjective the whole exercise is.

That REALLY is the last thing I'll say on this thread smile
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:22 PM

Birchcreekkid, The difference with the savegeu 2000-5 is the trigger......nothing get past that pitchfork trigger. We cant use legholds so thats a non issue here.

Lots of guys here use the Belisle....I dont just because of the trigger. Yes I could change the trigger out and have on a lot of older traps but anytime I buy new I get the 2000-5s. I also like the longer springs.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:35 PM

Not quite White,the bait compartment was elongated(cut,extended upwards and re-welded) on the kania not made larger to accommodate the larger bait.
Also the hole for the LDL pan trap was made smaller and the bait divider was moved forward to achieve a better strike location,and did not affect visitation.
I tend to have more faith in studies that involve actual trappers out on the trapline.I have used information from trappers involved as well as from the study itself,to improve my methods.Not everything in a study is useful to everyone,you need to take what you can use out of it and try stuff to suit your own needs on the trapline.
Personally I like a very large bait aways from the actual trap,as a draw for dispersing juveniles.
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:49 PM

And then there were marten in my area. That don't fit into any study.

I will put a few more box sets just to say. They are not always the answer. Tried them one year and won't again. Not worth the weight and bulk on the distances I have to travel. Found no difference in resistance using them alongs side pots.







By far and large I have had more refusals on these than anything as I set more of them.


Try seeing this 50 times or so in a day. ;0)


I have seen things change from one year to the next in drastic proportions.
Many of you remember this check of my sets. Not to brag but so show that I do know how to catch marten at times.



Thought I had found the answer in bait. Just to be outsmarted the next year. With 80% of the marten traveling right by the same sets that took marten the year before. Same bait, same time of year, same type of sets. Back to the drawing board.

I have found the marten in my area to be them most unpredictable animal I have ever trapped. At least a coyote you can figure on him being cagey. Never have I trapped marten in other places that demonstrated such indifference at times.
But the master of experimentation that I am. I don't stop until I get the upper hand.
I will put this out there.
1. When guys that catch large numbers of marten speak I listen.
2. When there is a need for change, I do.
3. When you think you have it all figured out. Things can change.
4. With much experimentation in the area I trapped the last 8 years would I ever rely solely on one type of trap for marten.
5. Never will I buy a 110 or 120 trap for a marten again. I would go no smaller than the 155-160's. I have now proven over and over that in a time of being possible resistance the 110 or 120 and its small size is the first trap that will be avoided. I have learned things over the last two years that have me totally setting up for marten differently than ever before. That only predominantly came about with setting multiple types of traps and snares on the way to the bait.
Try it sometime. You might be a little surprised what happens.
All this to say that if you have found something that works for you. Great. It may not for others. You can all argue and say what you want about your sets. I am all ears, as others are. It is what helped me the most in trying different things. But the bottom line. If I guy is serious about getting marten he does what works best for him in his area. If a guy is not willing to adapt then he will be missing out on catching more fur. To each his own.

Can't forget the tip up set. I like to use it in areas that will have a longer check time. Gets them safe. I like the natural cubby on the ground best with a tip up. Foot trap over a conibear.



A natura cubby will produce more for me but it is a lot longer to setup.




One trick on the tip up. Go with a lot longer pole when cutting green than you think you need. Small diameter and long. Then next year you use it it will weight less than half its original weight. And operate a lot different. Perhaps not working at all for a tip up. A long pole can be re used with a different tie. Don't use wire to attach the pole to the main tree. It will rust and break leaving you with no pole the next year. Leave the pole vertical over the summer. Use a piece of wire to hold it in place. Makes for a better setup next year. Not down from rocking in the wind. And covered in snow on the ground end.

And then there is the real wild card that can't be ignored. A gray jay in a trap is a marten potentially not caught.
The biggest reasons I went from foot traps to conibear in the first place.

If it worked all the time. The flower pot with a conibear tip up or off the side of a tree would be my preferred set. With a 110 duke. ;0) Few birds, and weather proof cheap to get setup. In my temps I can still get 60% or so of the marten out of a the trap. As it is I would never buy this setup again for the area I trapped. Just saying. Sometimes we can't have our cake and eat it too. ;0)
Posted By: trapperjoeAK

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 08:54 PM

I don't think birchcreekkid actually realizes that the cheaper conibears and footholds are actually illegal in Canada. heh.

There are fairly strict rules regarding dispatch times and what not to certify a trap legal there. (That is the AIHTS reference) Canadians would have to clarify.

I do feel fortunate that I get to choose what traps I use for myself.

Use vanilla plant pots here, not that happy with them overall and am sure wooden boxes are better, but because of weight and packing issues use em anyways. (Can't leave boxes out over the summer at all, completely not an option due to VERY high bear pops) Use a piece of surveyors tape over the top to dual purpose hold the trap in and mark the set and make for easy checking from a distance. You get used to it and it adds only seconds. There are a lot of things I would do differently if didn't have to worry about heavy snow so much. I will say that I very much prefer the pots that are large enough to fit the trap inside, don't like the smaller ones at all.

Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 09:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
Not quite White,the bait compartment was elongated(cut,extended upwards and re-welded) on the kania not made larger to accommodate the larger bait.
Also the hole for the LDL pan trap was made smaller and the bait divider was moved forward to achieve a better strike location,and did not affect visitation.
I tend to have more faith in studies that involve actual trappers out on the trapline.I have used information from trappers involved as well as from the study itself,to improve my methods.Not everything in a study is useful to everyone,you need to take what you can use out of it and try stuff to suit your own needs on the trapline.
Personally I like a very large bait aways from the actual trap,as a draw for dispersing juveniles.



Have to agree with that !
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 09:12 PM

Family Trapper said...

With 80% of the marten traveling right by the same sets that took marten the year before. Same bait, same time of year, same type of sets. Back to the drawing board.


And right there in a nutshell is why I think it's bogus to claim one type of trap or box makes a difference. The only thing that makes a difference is the marten's attitude at the moment.
Posted By: trapperJM

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 09:18 PM

trapperjoeAK,

What size pots are you using to get the 120's to fit inside. 1gal?

I am going to order some online but I'm having problems finding the dimensions.

Thanks
Posted By: trapperjoeAK

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 09:31 PM

They are "classic 600"s. Basicly 9" across. Which sounds huge, but one size smaller and they don't fit in my experience. These fit all brands 120's I have including belisles.

Quick picture of fit.

Posted By: trapperJM

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 09:43 PM

Thanks Joe!
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:13 PM

TrapperJoe I'm aware some traps are illegal in Canada but your right as I don't know which are or aren't except I know footholds are illegal for some reason. Personally I think the Canadian companies that manufacture conibears have quite the racket going on as your legislated to use their overpriced traps which IMO are waaaaay overpriced. I have to agree with Family trapper that you have to adapt as every year can be different whether it's different sets, different bait, or different lure and I always use a mixed bag approach so all my eggs aren't in one basket whether I'm trapping marten, lynk, or whatever. Come to think of it don't we already have a Marten trapping thread in the archives??????
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:24 PM

Trappers strive for a quick humane dispatch in Canada,to prevent animal suffering.Lethal traps have to pass a time to death threshold here to be acceptable.Improvements in humane trapping standards were started by trappers before animal rights was ever heard of.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:37 PM

"Trappers strive for a quick humane dispatch in Canada,to prevent animal suffering" So pistol packing American trappers like to torture animals because we use footholds???
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:43 PM

You asked why we don't use footholds for marten-they do not meet the time to death threshold for the International agreement.
I never made any comment on your use of the foothold for marten.perhaps it is humane in Alaska I don't know.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:47 PM

Perhaps I misinterpreted the way it was said, so are all footholds illegal and which conibears are you allowed to use? Do you have check times ie. every 24 hrs etc.?
Posted By: coonwild

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:53 PM

Footholds are legal for many animals still , the exception being marten and fisher and raccoon other then dp traps , birch creek the price canadian traps sell for is compareable to the price of American made victor traps , simply put you want North American made products you pay more
Posted By: martentrapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
Improvements in humane trapping standards were started by trappers before animal rights was ever heard of.


Thanks for all the pics guys and Thanks to Brian for starting the thread. Fun and interesting!
I want to disagree with the above quote. Humane trapping standards did not come about until the EU started threatened to ban trapped fur.
That being said, humane trapping standards do have some ability to improve income from trapping. Unfortunately, they also have serious ability to increase costs. Time after time the Canadians on this forum have said they are happy with the changes. Not much point in being unhappy, cuz it was FORCED on you. You don't have a choice, more or less.
Current Canadian trapping regs for Marten do have advantages for certain conditions. Sets using coni type traps are mostly free of birds. Not sure about squirrels. But I certainly hope that the day never comes when US trappers cannot use legholds for marten.
Has anyone tried using pots, boxes, cones, etc. with elevated sets using legholds?
mt
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 10:59 PM

Footholds are used in Canada for many species.They are also tested and have to pass some criteria of acceptable foot damage.There is no limit on check times for footholds or any other traps where I trap.In the south they have to be checked every day.Footholds were given up by most northern trappers here long ago when conibears became available,for ease and quickness of setting and re setting and in boxes they are weatherproof and a dead animal has no chance to escape.Quick kill also means no fur damage,so trappers naturally adopted the conibears for all their positive attributes over footholds.I prefer not to deal with live animals but sometimes it still happens.
I believe in the extreme cold in Alaska a foot trap for marten is humane,but I don't know if they would pass the 120 second threshold time to death required to sell fur on the international market.We do not test them here,I think the US has its own testing program.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 11:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
Dirt,I don't set ground boxes for marten-those are on water for mink.I cant help it if the Marten don't know the difference,lol.


That is why I don't trap mink. Why risk a $100-$150 Marten to catch a $30 mink? I tried to find a spot years ago where I could catch mink without catching marten. I set up huge log jams out in the middle of the river bottoms. I caught marten. So much for that. smile
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 11:27 PM

so where there are no trap check limits you can catch a lynk in a foothold and not check the line for a week or more but you can't use a foothold for marten?? So it's humane for a lynk but not a marten? I understand why some guys use conibears and no the price is not comparable unless the shipping to Canada is that outrages. I use both because there are pluses and minuses to both, I guess I'm just happy to have a choice instead of it being legislated that I have to buy overpriced traps because one kills in 120 seconds and not 125 seconds.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 11:33 PM

Martentrapper, if you look in the archives wolverinebait has quite a few pics of his marten boxes using footholds for marten. Seems to work well for him...........
Posted By: Kusko

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 11:40 PM

MT, I've used footholds in newspaper box for marten with success. I had one that didn't want to got through the conibear, so out of curiosity, I set a foothold. Dead marten the next check.

Posted By: martentrapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 11:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco

I believe in the extreme cold in Alaska a foot trap for marten is humane,but I don't know if they would pass the 120 second threshold time to death required to sell fur on the international market.


I doubt any leghold trap passes a 120 second time to death limit. I don't think US marten have any trouble being internationally marketed.

MT
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/19/13 11:57 PM

Them marten are sure stupid Dirt,they don't know what a mink box is.
Mink are stupid too,they climb up the tree and get caught in marten boxes-oh well.

I have to correct you Martentrapper.Here is an excerpt from Ralph Bice's book -Fur-The trade that put upper Canada on the map.
Ralph wrote the book in 1983.
"In a few years,all furs will be taken in what might be called humane traps.But it must be remembered that these traps were invented and improved to be as perfect as possible by trappers,and not by groups that live far from the woods,but apparently must have something to complain about."

Here is another quote from the book,made by the late Alex Sheif
"The Ontario Trappers Association has worked on humane trapping to produce better trapping methods.The OTA was involved in humane trapping long before anyone heard of The Humane Trapping Association,and we will field test any trap or method at our own expense"

This was long before the Agreement on international humane trapping standards.Trappers in Ontario at least had moved beyond the old methods long before they were given up in the intrests of keeping the international market open.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 12:01 AM

Birchcreek most professionals use the best up to date equipment available.
You would have to be some kind of idiot to leave an animal alive in a trap for a week.Legislated or not.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 12:15 AM

Well lets face it there are idiots out there yes? The logic is flawed that a foothold for marten is inhumane and a foothold for lynk is somehow not. Price does not always dictate The " best " equipment, sure I can buy the most expensive traps and put out less traps or I can buy more at a better price and put out more traps catching more fur which means more money in my pocket and less in the trap manufacturers pocket. Simple economics.............Maybe Canadians are happy only having a few expensive choices but you know us crazy Americans we still like the freedom to choose what works best for us......
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 12:18 AM

So if you have no limit on check times for a foothold, what do you do when the weather gets too bad to run the line. I could see where you might have a cat or similar in a trap for an extended period.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 01:09 AM

I don't know any trappers that use foothold for lynx in my area.They were always historically taken by snares.Snares and some by bodygrips when they became available.The foothold traps that have passed for humane live hold for lynx are the 3 softcatch the footsnare and 3 laminated.As far as I know Lynx do not chew on their feet when restrained.This I believe is why foothold restraining traps passed for them.The footholds available for marten as restraining traps did not pass,and no improved footholds were worked up because trappers had developed more efficient methods,so there was no push by trappers to have them.
In the south footholds are used but must be checked every day,regardless of weather.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 01:33 AM

Bodygrips equal taints.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 01:41 AM

All the high number ( 100 plus ) marten trappers in my area use the #1 or #0 foothold and I consider that pretty darn efficient, there's only two of us that I know of that use any conibears here. Maybe it's not as cold there but here our conibears freeze to the fur which means we have to bring the trap back to thaw before we can remove it so you have to carry a bunch of extra conibears around which is extra weight and takes up extra room which is why I don't use the conibears as much. Footholds I can take the marten out, reset it, and go so there's no extra stuff or weight, that's pretty darn efficient IMO
Posted By: adkbrookie

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 02:39 AM

18 misses means 18x150 (just using a convient number) = $2700 missed out on, that's a lot of traps overpriced or not
Posted By: fishermann222

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 02:46 AM

I have limited experience with marten but I have had more damage to marten caught in body grips than footholds on leaning poles. The other disadvantage is having to carry extra 120's around so can reset after you have a catch.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 03:22 AM

Im not a fan of being forced to use "approved' traps, and make no mistake we WERE forced. I said as much to Dave Bewick at a meeting one time. There are 100s of Alaskan marten that were caught in footholds right beside ours in every sale......but we were told we needed to go with the new traps or the EU wouldnt buy our fur.....

Good thread. FT hard to argue with your success! Lots of good info here, thanks to Bushman for starting it! After all marten is our 'money' animal.

Birchcreekkid, in my neck of the woods 100-marten is average.......high number trappers will put up 250 to 300 every year. Every one of those trappers use 120s .....we have no choice. IMO a #0 or #1 foothold would be ideal with a box....but cant go there.

Dirt, I have never had a marten taint because of a bodygrip....not even in snares....they are froze solid. Yes we do have to carry extra traps.....a pain but you get used to it.

I try my best to manage my numbers based on age, male / female ratios......I have found the best way for me to do this is to go hard til Christmas......maybe a bit longer if things look good. The only way for me to do this is to use sets that are fast......wiring flower pots to trees or using chainsaws to cut boxes in trees just takes to much time. I build permanent boxes every spring.....some day my lines will be filled with them.......then look out smile
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 03:31 AM

Originally Posted By: adkbrookie
18 misses means 18x150 (just using a convient number) = $2700 missed out on, that's a lot of traps overpriced or not


I don't know about this whole high dollar bodygrip missing more marten than a low priced bodygrip, but we are talking marten ( not the mental giant of the wilderness ) they will likely be caught in the trap the next check or a nearby set. Since I don't use cubbys that marten can climb on the side of or sit on top maybe misses are related to marten stepping on trap springs( especially if they have two to step on ).
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 04:17 AM

I'm old. I trapped marten with #1's and #1.5 for many years before I converted to bodygrips. I even kept using them after the law change because in truth there's little enforcement. But eventually I totally switched over to bodygrips and I wouldn't go back to footholds even if i could. So all I can offer is I've spent decades using both styles and prefer bodygrips. As for hassle of packing extra traps because they're froze on the marten for me that's standard operating practice. I'm always moving sets or making new ones so I have a dozen or so with me at all times.

I never double up at sets. Makes no sense to me. I'd rather put the second trap at a different location and increase my odds. I rarely see two marten tracks travelling together and if one rolls by while another is hanging, I'm in their territory and I'll nail them next time.

It's probably hard to be totally unbiased but my preference has always been a horizontal box on a elevated pole. I find the harvest % highest for those. I also believe a deep box with the bait secured results in less misses. In the slow motion video I've seen of traps in action marten are usually caught on the way out not the way in. They are very fast. My bait size is about the size of my fist.

I used flower pots for one season and didn't like them. To flimsy and broke when it was real cold. I couldn't find any that fit over the trap like shown above. Hard to beat the commercial $15 plastic box that stack so nice.

Yukon I hate those Sauvineau's. Too powerful… overkill on marten. I have a dozen and use them when i see fisher. Tough to depress their springs by hand and the trigger fills the hole box. But I guess thats why you like them. I use to string light wire across trigger mainly for incidental weasels but have gone away from it.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 04:35 AM

With respect that's all any of us have…our opinions, and I'm happy to hear everyone's. But I have never had a marten damaged in a bodygrip by any brand trap. I've also never heard of it from my fellow local trappers, so why are you having issues? Perhaps you're damaging them trying to take them out of the trap when frozen? I can relate lots of stories of damaged legs and feet on marten that are caught in footholds, plus many live marten waiting to be dispatched. I don't lose any sleep over dispatching fur but at the same time I take no pleasure in seeing a marten that was in distress hanging by one leg waiting to freeze.

The price of traps is a moot point if you're serious and intend to be in this business for long. Even one $50 marten pays for both trap and box and every marten you catch after that is gravy.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 04:52 AM

A couple things( that may or may not be important to some)to take into account,here a footrap would be out of commission with snow,I would not leave an animal alive in a restraining trap for an extended period,that just does not sit right with me-or the general public who are very concerned about humane trapping.So that means inefficiency for me.With a killing trap I can run more lines if I choose with 3 and 5 day checks allowing a larger area to be trapped .Checking traps every day is a waste of time.Of all the marten I have sold that are caught in the strong bodygrips I have had no damages in my account receipts.Older weaker(and illegal here) bodygrips cause damage.Studies were done by the Fur Institute of Canada in conjunction with the auction houses to determine if the newer stronger bodygrips caused fur damage-it was negligible.Strong bodygrips cause damage to weasels in the extreme cold if you are not careful handling them.
Bears only bother boxes here if you dont drop your bait when you pull your trap,very easy to do with vertical boxes opening down.Just snip wire and the bait drops out.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:17 AM

Originally Posted By: Bushman
With respect that's all any of us have…our opinions, and I'm happy to hear everyone's. But I have never had a marten damaged in a bodygrip by any brand trap. I've also never heard of it from my fellow local trappers, so why are you having issues? Perhaps you're damaging them trying to take them out of the trap when frozen? I can relate lots of stories of damaged legs and feet on marten that are caught in footholds, plus many live marten waiting to be dispatched. I don't lose any sleep over dispatching fur but at the same time I take no pleasure in seeing a marten that was in distress hanging by one leg waiting to freeze.

The price of traps is a moot point if you're serious and intend to be in this business for long. Even one $50 marten pays for both trap and box and every marten you catch after that is gravy.


X2

T4E, I think geography might have a lot to do with it.....probably more than we realize. But if you use conibears enough you will see that there is a difference.....price means nothing.....its the triggers. When Im setting 80-miles of line I dont have time to fiddle with the triggers. In this country you might only get one shot at a marten before they move on or die......misses are costly. I can set a 2000-5 and be confident I wont miss a marten. That single fact alone makes them worth the extra few bucks.....as for conibear doing more damage......nonsense. Sure if you try to force a frozen marten out of a bodygrip you will damage the fur.......If you use them right you wont have a problem......I think yukonjeff addressed that issue when he said most top lots go to Canadian trappers.....all of those marten were caught in bodygrips....every single one.

Everyone has their own preferences based on their experience and I think every area is different....but make no mistake about it.....Canadians take a pile of marten with bodygrips.
Posted By: FullFreezer

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:19 AM

A lot of great opinions here, but I'd love to see more marten sets and explanations on how to rather than this.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:22 AM

Originally Posted By: trapped4ever
Call graders at either NAFA or Fur Harvesters, and ask them if they see more fur damage on marten, from body grips, or appropriately sized footholds!!!!??? I agree, that too large of a foothold for marten is a BAD idea!!




Or maybe just read their pelt handling manual. wink
Posted By: trapperjoeAK

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:24 AM

My biggest knocks against footholds used in classic pole sets is that:

1) I don't think the sets hold up as well in super heavy snow areas. This isn't a problem if it puts sets out of commission once or twice a season, but if it is every single check its no good. I might have a tendency to use too big of poles though. (I started wondering about this some years after rejecting poles.)

2) Cutting or coming up with poles can be a lot harder than you would think in certain terrain. Funny as this sounds, it is very very applicable in some places.

3) They are at least somewhat more prone to birds.

Those are the only reasons I don't use them. I definitely believe that they have less refusals and will catch marten that will walk by a plant pot vertically on a tree. I am seriously considering running poles to my plant pots, but then you have some of the same issues as above and am unsure if it is worth the time and effort. It is complicated by the fact that there is so much snow on our line that you often don't get good opportunities to see marten tracks and observe set behaviour. I have not used footholds in boxes except on the ground targeting mink. (Have caught marten in them of course, but don't like ground caught marten for all the normal reasons although in my area rodents chewing on critters is not much of a problem, snow burying ground sets much bigger problem.)

Obligatory, this is my opinion for my area. smile

I would love to run horizontal boxes with poles seems like a lot of the advantages of both. How snow resistant and bird resistant do people find these? (Although at this point I might still run plant pots because I have set them thousands of times and am very used to them and my system is set up for that.)
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:28 AM

This thread reminds me of the FHA or NAFA threads that pop up from time to time.lol.
Posted By: mad_mike

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:44 AM

I run boxes with #1 jumps exclusively. My boxes are cut as 7" rips of whatever plywood or 1x material is around for grabs. I have tried a variety of trap types and set types. I like the small undersprung traps for the light weight and quickness to rig and set. I went down the path of standardizing my sets and never looked back. Not into the body grip vs. foothold debate.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:55 AM

Here is another style that has it's merits. An old trapper down in Bushmans neck of the woods makes these boxes. They have a seperate compartment for bait that nothing can get too. The pluses are you only have to bait them once a season ( other than scent) and the marten stays in the box. This almost guarantees zero pitch or mice problems....downside of course is the box itself......large, and expensive to make. I got a bunch for free and I do like them........no misses with them so far......


Posted By: FullFreezer

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:01 AM

Have any other pictures?
Posted By: frozen okie

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:16 AM

Am not a big time marten guy but here's my fav. the one that has a marten in it grin

And I have to say I now know what it feels like to see tracks going to a set and they do nothing but circle the dang thing

I take the lath and nail it to tree, this one I didn't drill holes in the lath and it split, that's why box is crooked, but that happened after trap went off.
May try some of the horizontal boxes with a #1, cause where am at snow or freezing rain will put a running pole out of commission pretty fast
Lots of good info here
T4E was all those in one year? One thing about it there is no doubt you earn every penny you get
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:31 AM



4- You actually keep top lot certificates? They're more luck than skill. I use my overall averages as my benchmark. But I agree lets stay on topic please.

Okie - if you flip your nail over and blunt the tip it won't split the lath as often, been there.

So tomorrow I'm heading out to run a few sets and get 20 more out. i'm using another design that I made out of pieces of corplast. They stack very nice and 20 of them weigh less than a pound. Because the boxes are shorter i will use them in vertical sets. When you put a vertical set on a wide trunk a marten usually charges up the tree. On a skinny trunk they wrap their paws and climb slower. I want them charging.



Posted By: trapper ron

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:34 AM

Originally Posted By: trapped4ever
Call graders at either NAFA or Fur Harvesters, and ask them if they see more fur damage on marten, from body grips, or appropriately sized footholds!!!!??? I agree, that too large of a foothold for marten is a BAD idea!!


I would doubt if they know how the marten was trapped or even have time to check to see. Damage is damage and the pelt goes into the damage section where it fits without a CSI or postmortem to check trapping methods.
Posted By: trapped4ever

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:42 AM

Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:48 AM

Ron,the graders were not told how the marten were trapped-That would have made the study biased.The skins were marked by the FIC,graded then checked independently to see if any that were caught in magnum conis had any more damage than any other.They did not.Neither do mine,less in fact than the old weak traps.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 06:51 AM

T4E not offended in the slightest.....and I agree not all top lots go to us Canucks......but enough do that I think we can rule out conis as the limiting factor...... In that standard pole set in the picture it looks like the trap is on the ground? Is that a tip-up set? Do you put your bait in the can?

Good advice on tree size Brian I have noticed the same.....could you post the dimensions of those coreplast boxes please. I love that idea and want to make some asap.
Posted By: FullFreezer

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 07:04 AM


Simple pole set with a #2, works for me. Always like to see others sets.
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 07:40 AM

I for one when I did set the typical pole set, if I had a chance at all I went for setting under the umbrella of the biggest spruce around just for the protection against snow fall. I personally could never figure why someone would set out in the open when there was protection near by.? Any thoughts on this?

Personally I think top lot has a lot to do with the numbers game. ;0) The more marten you have to send in more chances you have of getting them in a top lot. It is not the number of top lot that impresses me. It is the fact that anyone with a lot of top lot certificates had a lot of marten to send in. ;0)
That is impressive to me!!

There is so much to gain from everyones opinions. I personally don't like to see guys get worked up on who's is better than an others or what is right or wrong. To me there is food for thought in every post. Glean what you can from those so willing to share.
I got some great tidbits of advice from posts, Canadian and US.
This flipping place (Tman) is like a treasure chest to anyone that spends time here. Blows me away the out of the box thinking that goes on here about trapping.
Keep bringing it on men. We have another archive potential thread among us.
Posted By: Wolverinebait

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:00 AM

Well, I'll throw my 2˘ into this circus ring,.. but you're probably gonna get ripped off. grin

I too, like T4E, am a confirmed foothold marten trapper, after trying & using every type of set/trap I could think of, over many years. And I agree with most of the issues concerning both footholds & body-grippers that have been mentioned by others. These type of threads are good for bringing out ideas & methods from all across North America, and this is how one can pick up even little things to improve your methods that you just might not have thought of otherwise on your own,... there's some pretty ingenious trappers on this forum.

And nothing is more true than doing what works best in your particular area/habitat,.. and we are not all the same in that regard. And since most of you have violated Bushman's directions of keeping this thread picture-heavy,... I'm going to have to help make up the slack for some of you,... cool

But there are some rather important advantages (in my humble opinion) in using footholds that haven't been brought out yet,.. so I will mention a few.

First of all, my experiments with body-grippers has been less than desired in the number of refusals to enter them,... this has been true for mink as well,.. (and wolverine too). I could post a lot of pictures just like FT of marten tracks coming right up to sets, and not going in. And trigger styles/configurations make no difference, including pans,... for me in my area, a considerable number of marten just don't want to enter them,... and I used mostly 160's from the start. Just like some areas have marten that won't climb, mine don't want to go thru a steel frame.

I trap in some of the deepest snow country in Alaska,... some of my main marten country has annual snowfall depths of 30-45 feet,... so for sure, my main issue is having a set that keeps working no matter how much snow falls,... even in no tree areas. I have years when I step off my snow machine, and have trouble getting back on again, with my head level with the running boards in extreme conditions. My next most important issue is mice/shrew damage. I have a good friend who traps a little north of me who has no mouse problems,... he has fox problems. I have never had a fox eat a marten in my life that I can remember,...

A ground cubby with footholds is closest set to 100% capture that I have seen in my experience when working,.. but of course they are the worst for getting put out of commission & rodent damage, so I don't use those. Pole sets with 3"-4" of snow on them are somewhat out of commission from what I've seen, and in my area, that would be almost all the time. I have caught lot's of marten in pole sets, but it very deep snow, or higher elevations, trees aren't always available.


For me, in my area, nothing has worked better/lasts longer than plywood boxes, (5/8"-3/4" preferred) set mostly horizontal. I have tried different heights-lengths,... and have come up with the smallest dimensions that still work almost every time,.. 6" tall, and 14" deep, with 10" sides. I can get 16 boxes out of a full sheet of plywood and scrounge up scrap plywood whenever I find it, so all my boxes are free. It's fast & easy to rip up a whole pile of them on a table saw. One of my favorite methods of setting my boxes is to attach them to a pole, then I can stick my pole anywhere I want,... even out in the wide-open spaces,... and it stays working. I always use 8d nails to attach them,... that way they don't get wrecked when a bear or wolverine tears them off. Also, I can easily pop them off & move them up a tree as the snow gets deeper. At the end of the season, I pop the box off the tree & place it over the sawed-off end of a smaller tree somewhere, as high as I can get it, where they are generally safe from summer-time bears and porcupines. I would rather not use plastics & other non-biodegradable materials and have trash scattered around my set areas. Here's a few of my pole/box marten sets,...





Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:15 AM

Wolverinebait That looks like a very effective set ! I think you brought up something that is very important to the overall discussion...refusals......I think it depends on how much food is available. I very rarely see a marten refuse to enter a set......it does happen, but so rarely that it isnt an issue.....If a marten comes near a set in my country one of two things will happen.....either I catch it, or it gets past the trap & gets the bait....this is where the pitchfork trigger shines....they fire the trap every time. My thinking is that trappers that see lots of refusals are likely in an area where the marten have lots of food......so they can be picky......in areas with less food they are much less likely to refuse a free meal......
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:15 AM

WB
Thanks.
On your sets do you put the trap inside the box or just under the overhang?
On a 6 inch wide entry do you do anything to fence them into the trap pan? Any guiding at all?
Do you have a photo of a trap set in a box?
Posted By: FullFreezer

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:17 AM

WB- do you have any pictures of the sets without the catch? I'm new to marten trapping, have a grand total of 5.25 marten. I trap a burn and the big spruce for coverage is few and far between.didnt have any issues with snow covering traps, but the birds eating all the bait was a big problem. My plan this year is to go with chunks of moose hide and lure.
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:18 AM

When I trapped marten in Montana. I either caught the marten making the track anywhere close to my set or it was disabled for some reason. Never would they resist. OH the joy of trapping marten like that again.
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:19 AM

Alaskan
I tried the big moose hides a few years ago with a smelly fish paste lure on them for smell. Little success. That is not to say that it would not be affective in another location. But it was a bust for me.
Posted By: Wolverinebait

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 09:02 AM

This is why I use smaller nails to attach my boxes, so they don't get wrecked when bears or wolverines tear them down,...




The drawbacks of body-grippers are the same for me as for most,... besides a lower catch rate. Carrying a bunch of replacement traps that can't be used to set more areas is a fairly big factor for me, since I refuse to drag a cargo sled around if at all possible to avoid it, and on trips of 15-20 marten caught, this is a big pile of traps. As far as the damage issues using body-grippers go,... this too, must be an area-weather related thing to some degree. I for sure had more damaged marten in them than footholds did. Using only #0 or #1's would only result in some occasional minor foot damage,... which is no detriment to the price of the fur. But many of my body-gripped marten had lines/damage in the fur across the body that I could not comb out, not matter what I did. Any wiggling around at all in those traps would cause that,.. just like it does with otters, beavers, etc. I remember watching Dean Wilson grading marten at times & picking out the body-gripped marten that he could see had a line going across the body,... for sure not all/most did, but some certainly did. A foot-caught marten will never have body damage from the trap.

Someone mentioned that having to deal with live marten was a negative thing that body-gripping traps eliminate. I actually LIKE having live marten in my traps for several reasons, which can never happen in body traps:

1) I know they are not damaged from mice, from being frozen against anything, etc. Let's face it,... if you're anything like me,... the most damage I do to marten is trying to haul hard/frozen marten home on a bouncing sled all day. I usually carry towels with me to wrap frozen marten in,.. but marten fur is so fine & delicate that even touching each other can make marks in the fur. And having a body gripper trap frozen around it with sharp, poking things sticking out only invites more damage trying to get it home.

2) A simple love-tap on the snout, hold their hearts, and a marten is dispatched in a min or less. Not only is a warm, unfrozen marten going to make it back home undamaged, but I can get him peeled & on the boards right away that night. They peel better fresh, and I really like keeping up with my skinning as much as I can,... no freeze-dried faces, tails, etc. skinning something you caught 2 months earlier.

3) A foot-caught marten, caught by only a toe or two, can be released just fine. Maybe not too many people will do this too much at current prices, but I have done it in the past, more than once. I have released small black females on numerous times that I know were just fine. Can't do that with a body-gripper. It's not always a sure thing that it will work, because I can think of at least 2 times that I had caught the same marten in the same set, now hanging dead that I had released the previous check. But at least you have that option on occasion to manage your marten line with footholds that you don't have with body-grippers.




Posted By: Wolverinebait

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 09:20 AM

You know,.. I don't think I have very many pictures of boxes set without a catch,.. that is kinda weird now that I think about it. I just have the trap inside as far as I can get it, spring in first. I generally don't have much of a bird-squirrel issue, but on occ I'll get one. Weasels are the biggest pest, but not sure how to avoid them without loosing marten potential as well.


Another advantage of using footholds over body-grippers for marten (or maybe not,... depending on how you look at it) is the possibility of catching something better,... and bigger. With current prices, this may not be a good thing, but in the past it was. I can think of at least a half-dozen times that I have caught & held a wolverine in a #1 longspring in a marten box. (funny thing is, I have no pictures of this,... crazy), but of course have lost most of them. But I always anchor my trap with this in mind. But years ago, when lynx & even fox were worth more than a marten, I considered this a bonus that wouldn't happen in a little body-gripper,... even on pole sets,...





Posted By: Aknative

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 09:37 AM

Man WB! I can't even catch a fox in a set made for them! Love those pics though!
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 09:57 AM

Great post WB.
But man I hate to prove you wrong. ;0) But all in fun no less.
Quote:
I considered this a bonus that wouldn't happen in a little body-gripper,


Caught the last week in March.
110 duke or similar in a plant pot. Undoubtedly the nicest furred fox I have ever caught. At the time of year when they are most all are terribly rubbed. Higher country.
I was amazed. Certainly not the normal. But a rarity that can happen. Agree with everything you have said WB. Just fun to share the oddity of things at times.

Posted By: Wolverinebait

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 10:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Family Trapper
Great post WB.
But man I hate to prove you wrong. ;0) But all in fun no less.
Quote:
I considered this a bonus that wouldn't happen in a little body-gripper,


Caught the last week in March.
110 duke or similar in a plant pot. Undoubtedly the nicest furred fox I have ever caught. At the time of year when they are most all are terribly rubbed. Higher country.
I was amazed. Certainly not the normal. But a rarity that can happen. Agree with everything you have said WB. Just fun to share the oddity of things at times.



Yeah, I know you're right,... it has happened. Seems like I remember someone on here posting a picture of a wolverine caught in a 160 too,... but it's really not all that uncommon to catch other stuff like this in footholds,... I have a lot more pictures of lynx, fox, even a coyote caught in boxes,... just not wanting to spend the time trying to find them, but I did just run across a couple more that I don't even remember, including a tail-caught marten in a pole set. The weird things always make for good memories. That's a very nice fox,.. great picture! grin




Posted By: rmrwade

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 12:59 PM

Hello, can someone please explain a little tip up detail or point me to some other thread that does. I tried to see how FT's coni set off his tip up but I can't get there. thanks.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 01:28 PM

Any foothold set in a tree here is a totally illegal set.Some of those pics demonstrate why.
WB do you check your traps every day?
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 01:30 PM

Originally Posted By: Family Trapper
I for one when I did set the typical pole set, if I had a chance at all I went for setting under the umbrella of the biggest spruce around just for the protection against snow fall. I personally could never figure why someone would set out in the open when there was protection near by.? Any thoughts on this?







First of all I agree with WB concerning all his reasons for preferring footholds. That occasional fox on a pole set is fun as well as getting rid of that potential trap robber. I hate it when a fox starts running my line eating marten.

But to address Family Trapper's question above....for me it goes like this.

I trap in black spruce because that's where the voles are, and that's where the marten are. Especially early in the season when the tundra is freezing and overflow is forcing voles out at the edge of their habitat. Marten hunt those edges because that's where they are being successful.

Another thing is that the wind blows a bit more in that open country so a foothold on a pole stays free of snow to a greater extent than in heavier cover. Also, and this is a biggie IMO, the set is more visible from a greater distance than it is tucked in under a large tree. Look at a marten. His eyes and ears are bigger than his nose. If they see a leaning pole from a distance they will check it out. If there is movement such as the hanging wing I use for bait, that too attracts them.

Finally, that open country presents more risks to the marten than a heavy white spruce forest. Consequently, I believe a guy will catch more males in that environment. Maybe it would be better to say a guy will catch fewer females. I find a higher percentage of females in the white spruce because (It think) it's safer and their range is smaller anyway so they have better cover throughout the area they are using. So I avoid setting in those areas to a large extent. And, I try to be done with marten by February to avoid that time of greater activity by the females.

And as WB said, you can oftentimes release those females from a foothold.

As for snow build-up on poles....The type of set I use allows most of the snow to fall through the trap as there is no pole under the pan and jaws. I also try to stick with poles that are just a bit bigger than my thumb at the small end. There again as Dave says, that can be hard to do in some areas where poles are in limited supply. But a number 0 on the end of a pole may have a bit of snow on the pan but virtually none on the jaws.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 01:45 PM

Love the pics and discussion.

Pole size is important. In high snow areas you can put a box on a leaning running pole and have it remain working in almost any snow conditions but the pole has to be skinny. No need to put under canopy cover. The pole needs to be around 2" diameter as snow cannot build up on it. The cubby box will get snow piled on the roof but it sluffs off also if the pole is on incline or elevated.

An exposed box attracts marten all on its on, so I don't like to hide them. W17 hit the nail on the head when he said it's perhaps the big box that acts as an attractant. I know an aboriginal trapper who uses no bait or lure just sets up his boxes. He claims marten investigate every nook and cranny anyways so why waste the effort. he catches marten.

As for consistent marten avoidance of sets I find it hard to believe in some areas they are Einsteins, where in others they enter every set. Yukon 254 I believe is right. A marten would rather eat a live vole then your tainted old hunk of bait. Catch a marten under these conditions and you'll see belly fat. On my last run I picked up 2 marten out of 70 sets, hardly a good ratio but fresh sign was every where and I predict my next run will be different. when that first big snow comes the marten are running around like crazy, but with full bellies.

In tough conditions, later in winter, you start catching more mature females so there is some avoidance by them early on as well. But a hungry marten isn't going to pass up on a free meal.

Yukon 254 cubbies are 7" x 7" opening, 10" deep, and 4" x 6" at the back. I drilled a 1" hole through the back to wire bait or pull my onion bag baits through.

ok. it's -33 and 7 am, trapping time. Let's see what today brings.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: white17



But to address Family Trapper's question above....for me it goes like this.

I trap in black spruce because that's where the voles are, and that's where the marten are. Especially early in the season when the tundra is freezing and overflow is forcing voles out at the edge of their habitat. Marten hunt those edges because that's where they are being successful.

Another thing is that the wind blows a bit more in that open country so a foothold on a pole stays free of snow to a greater extent than in heavier cover. Also, and this is a biggie IMO, the set is more visible from a greater distance than it is tucked in under a large tree. Look at a marten. His eyes and ears are bigger than his nose. If they see a leaning pole from a distance they will check it out. If there is movement such as the hanging wing I use for bait, that too attracts them.

Finally, that open country presents more risks to the marten than a heavy white spruce forest. Consequently, I believe a guy will catch more males in that environment. Maybe it would be better to say a guy will catch fewer females. I find a higher percentage of females in the white spruce because (It think) it's safer and their range is smaller anyway so they have better cover throughout the area they are using. So I avoid setting in those areas to a large extent. And, I try to be done with marten by February to avoid that time of greater activity by the females.

And as WB said, you can oftentimes release those females from a foothold.

As for snow build-up on poles....The type of set I use allows most of the snow to fall through the trap as there is no pole under the pan and jaws. I also try to stick with poles that are just a bit bigger than my thumb at the small end. There again as Dave says, that can be hard to do in some areas where poles are in limited supply. But a number 0 on the end of a pole may have a bit of snow on the pan but virtually none on the jaws.


I noticed they had eyes a few years back. I bet they can see stuff from upwind of a set.
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: trapped4ever



You missed one!
Posted By: RichM AB

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: yukon254
Here is another style that has it's merits. An old trapper down in Bushmans neck of the woods makes these boxes. They have a seperate compartment for bait that nothing can get too. The pluses are you only have to bait them once a season ( other than scent) and the marten stays in the box. This almost guarantees zero pitch or mice problems....downside of course is the box itself......large, and expensive to make. I got a bunch for free and I do like them........no misses with them so far......







I'm new back to the game. When I was a young buck all we used were leg holds. Now it is body grips for most everything. I'm OK with that. I like the animals to be dead when I get there. I've kill critters all over the world with a rifle but I shudder to think of an animal waiting for me to show up. THIS IS JUST MY PERSONAL OPINION! There are those who will think me soft for this and you know I'm OK with that. I sleep real good every night.


I use homemade long boxes for my Beslisle traps. Yes they are big and awkward to haul. I get to leave mine out however.

I use 160 for fisher and 120 for marten.




This set had a neat story. There were two that hit the set and the second pulled the first out of the box and tried to get at the bait.

Our first pick up. We caught a couple more, they are in the skinning shack thawing so I could take the traps off - yes that is a pain.
We caught more marten in the 160 fisher sets than the 120 marten sets. How ever the sample size is statistically insignificant.
I am very happy to have my own line and a wife who wants to share all the great times out there with me!
Posted By: FullFreezer

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 03:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Boco
Any foothold set in a tree here is a totally illegal set.Some of those pics demonstrate why.
WB do you check your traps every day?


It only demonstrates that we do things differently.


* Anyone have any pictures of snare set ups for marten? Has anyone done a multiple snare pole? Kind of like for squirrels?
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 03:54 PM





I quit doing this as I ended up with snare marks in the fur
Posted By: FullFreezer

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 04:04 PM

sweet.

Could cable size be a factor?
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 04:07 PM

Yeah it could. The other big drawback IMO is that they are easily put out of commission by a relatively small amount of snow.
Posted By: 3 Fingers

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 04:56 PM

For me it's about 50/50 foothold/BG. I have seen damage from BG's, mostly frostburn. If it drops to -50 or so for several days and I can't get out there it can happen. They don't move much then though. Also with a BG less marten crap to deal with. Love the footholds for speed,ease,weight and effectiveness. I use #1 ls and wish they were 0's.
Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 05:10 PM


Sometimes pole size matters............

Smetimes not.
And who says footholds aren't humane?...
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 07:44 PM

I saw this in a thread for weasels but it would ce
rtainly work for marten off the ground..........Now If I can just find some plastic jugs I'll try it out...........
Posted By: 30/06

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:20 PM

My $0.02: My experience and expertise is less than many other posters on this thread. However, after 12 years on our little valley line, I've formed some considered opinions. We switched from leg holds to Belilse 120s in flower pot 2 years ago. The main reason was that my daughter didn't like to find live, fight in' mad Marten in a set. Since I am thrilled to have her along, I gladly wrote the check for the Belilses. An unexpected benefit has been that I now have no sets clogged with birds, and few Marten refusals, so I think we're ahead in total numbers of caught Marten. It's a real bummer to find a Camp Robber in a trap that has been chewed on by the Marten you didn't catch. My 2 main gripes about our current system are that my kids can't set the 120s by themselves yet, and the pots crack easily in the cold.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 08:39 PM

there are ways to place your bait that will keep gray jays out of your traps. One guy here uses pop cans with the bottom cut off and puts the bait inside then squeezes the bottom shut then hangs it on the end of the pole. The can also acts as an attractor, last year he ran out of bait and just hung the cans and guess what?? caught just as many marten in the sets with just the can as he did with the bait in it lol oh yeah and no birds...............
Posted By: martenpine

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 10:02 PM

Originally Posted By: Birchcreekkid
there are ways to place your bait that will keep gray jays out of your traps. One guy here uses pop cans with the bottom cut off and puts the bait inside then squeezes the bottom shut then hangs it on the end of the pole. The can also acts as an attractor, last year he ran out of bait and just hung the cans and guess what?? caught just as many marten in the sets with just the can as he did with the bait in it lol oh yeah and no birds...............


I've always used cans to hold bait. Through all the years I've trapped marten I doubt I've caught more than a half dozen birds in my marten sets.
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/20/13 10:30 PM

Quote:
The other big drawback IMO is that they are easily put out of commission by a relatively small amount of snow.

Interestingly enough that is what I always thought. But was always perplexed by this photo. Notice snare on top of the pole. The conifer really held the snow in this situation. Old set. Don't do it like this anymore. The snare and conibear must be spread out a far greater distance. There can be no chance of overlap. That does not mean trap to trap. That means back leg or tail of marten to the next set. It is not very close. ;0)


I have used 1/16 cable heavily loaded and have not seen damage on the limited catch I have had.
The key is the larger cable vs small IMO. But that is limited.

Okay here is a teaser. The first snare conibear setup I ever set. You tell me what happened here. The conibear was set first in line. A jump stick placed over the set as usual. This set is about 8 years ago. But it was not until last season that I really figured out the extent of what was happening in this set.
Discussion here. You want to see how Marten react towards conibears in a resistant phase. Start putting a snare after your conibear and watch the results.



Early on I was setting too large a loop and had some hip caught marten.

Snares have a place on the line. A neck caught marten the snare can be used at times. They leap and die.



Don't get me wrong on the setting under cover. I don't avoid black spruce at all. But given the chance I will take cover when I can in White spruce rather than leave it out in the open. I have never had problems getting marten to my sets. I have never seen where setting in cover has seemed to put me at a disadvantage at all. I can believe the eye appeal for sure. But given the fact that I have never witnessed much at all of a pass by syndrome due to them not finding the set. I will work under cover in white spruce when given the chance. However having a work schedule it always meant that my marten traps were not checked as often as many that do it full time. I liked an advantage over snow depth. Again everyone needs to do what works for them.


Wade
Will get to the tip up tutorial later. Seems I had a pretty good one somewhere. But not sure where right now.
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:02 AM

Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:03 AM

That can work for most furbearers. Had a serious robber last year. Real Houdini. Took two traps, but got him.... Well crap. Can't find the picture, but what happened was I had a weasel that was a real expert at robbing what was otherwise a great set. It was a newspaper tube with a 120 in it. Well, I finally put a rat trap in the tube, behind the coni. He got hit with the rat trap, a bit far back, drug himself and the trap back through the 12o, and got nailed with a perfect neck shot.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:20 AM

Trapper378, that picture is to small to make out your marten set.......maybe you could explain it?
Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:27 AM

Found it

Then there is always this...........
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:38 AM

Guess that marten would not have made the 120 second rule.
Posted By: WYtrapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:45 AM




Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 05:00 AM



Sorry about the small picture. Its a 2' piece of 3/8 rebar with some tabs welded on it to hold the trap. I run the #9 wire that holds the bait over the trap to keep the gray jays from landing on the trap.
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 05:38 AM




Posted By: martentrapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 05:53 AM

Cool photos 378. Probably not too many jays in the last pics burn area, eh?
Looks like some of the country I used to trap west of Fbks.
mt
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 05:53 AM



Posted By: Tradbow1

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 05:57 AM

martenpine,

Noticed your cans are on the bottom side. have you had issues with no climbers with this method? I have a short line (with few anything other than people on it lol), all joking aside I had a handful come to the sets, check out my bait and move on. I had them hung under like you have them.

The guy I help out does the same, he's on the same river not much farther away and doesn't have the issue though many he has wired above. He's using Dixie cups, works well, can put lure on top bait inside. I'm thinking hanging above is a better idear than on the underside of the poles?

Pulled out my gear finally that I had in the shed. My marten lure is nasty and spilled all over the action packer. Stuff was spendy to make and has little draw to it in the cold imho. Still stinks to loose a half gallon of it!
Posted By: elktrack

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 06:00 AM

378, How are you attaching that rebar to the tree? Gotta be on there pretty solid to hold wolverines.
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 06:32 AM

A 3/8 lag 2 1/2 inches long is holding the rebar. The wolverine also has a mb 750 on his rear foot
Posted By: martentrapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 06:55 AM

Are you making the rebar, 378? I used to have some 10 or 12 in. spikes that had tabs welded for a long spring. Caught a few marten with the.
Yours look better. Can we get a pic of the rebar before it's put in the tree?
MT
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 07:44 AM

Yep making them. I used to do the same with the 10 inch spikes. I like this a lot better. You dont have to have a branch to wire the trap and bait to.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 02:29 PM

378 - I see the potential for a wolverine proof trap with that set of yours if you could get it up high enough.

I got a bunch of sets put yesterday in some new territory. Kind of neat I've been trapping this line siince 95 and still finding new areas.

This set is made using 4 roofing nails to hold trap on tree trunk and two 5" nails criss crossed above the trap to hold the bait and spruce boughs. Great when you run out of boxes like I did yesterday.







You'll notice I bent a small branch through the springs in a hoop shape. It keeps the spruce boughs up off the trap.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 02:33 PM

For this set I cut a short piece of lath to use as a stable base to hold the trap as the pole was skinny. First time I tried it and it worked good. A supple branch is bent up and through the springs adding tension. When it's really cold I stick branch inside coat to warm up so it will bend, doesn't matter if it freezes once in place.





I added a loose wrap of wire around the outside bottom jaw for added stability. trap fires fine as long as wire is only around one jaw
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 02:39 PM



A more conventional set. Notice my lure bottle hanging on upper left. I tend to leave stuff behind or drop it so am careful. With a wire I can hang up lure while working and not lose track
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 02:45 PM




A marten was crossing on this big log but snow will pile up so I put spruce boughs over entrance for some protection. A couple handfuls of snow on back of boughs freezes them in place.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 02:48 PM




This set is on a skinny pole so snow can't build up and leaning down so snow won't fill entrance
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 02:51 PM





Perfect, nicely suitcased and hanging up from mice
Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:12 PM

pole sets with footholds equals squirrels
Posted By: martenpine

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Tradbow1
martenpine,

Noticed your cans are on the bottom side. have you had issues with no climbers with this method? I have a short line (with few anything other than people on it lol), all joking aside I had a handful come to the sets, check out my bait and move on. I had them hung under like you have them.

The guy I help out does the same, he's on the same river not much farther away and doesn't have the issue though many he has wired above. He's using Dixie cups, works well, can put lure on top bait inside. I'm thinking hanging above is a better idear than on the underside of the poles?

Pulled out my gear finally that I had in the shed. My marten lure is nasty and spilled all over the action packer. Stuff was spendy to make and has little draw to it in the cold imho. Still stinks to loose a half gallon of it!


Tradbow1,

No I haven't noticed refusals because of it. Actually I rarely ever have noticed refusals through the years like you hear of all the time. Maybe I just miss the sign and weather has covered it, but it seems to never have been a problem for me. The biggest problem has been the lack of marten lately. I have however set connibear pot types sets or boxes a few yards away from pole sets with footholds and probably 95% of the time the conni connected rather than the foothold on the pole.


Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:35 PM

Some time ago, W17 posited that the pots may add a visual attraction, possibaly resembeling a grouse perched on the side of a tree. It could be.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 04:56 PM

Brian, do you just save onion bags throughout the summer or have you found a place to buy them?
Posted By: Kusko

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 05:52 PM

yukon254, we use these.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Home-Cabin/Food-Processing/Food-Storage-Prep|/pc/104798880/c/104723280/sc/104344380/Elastic-Netting-Rolls/715435.uts?destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fbrowse%2Ffood-storage-prep%2F_%2FN-1101301%2FNs-CATEGORY_SEQ_104344380%3FWTz_l%3DSBC%253BMMcat104798880%253Bcat104723280&WTz_l=SBC%3BMMcat104798880%3Bcat104723280%3Bcat104344380

A roll get's us a lot of bait.

One year we got all of our friends to save their onion bags. smile
Posted By: Family Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 06:29 PM

I set conbibears on leaning pole for a long time with nails. Last year I got this idea. Have you ever put up a dead marten to a 110 or 120 in the standing position. It is no wonder so often they choose an alternate route. They look pretty large to be going through that sized square. Having to lean down to do it. ;0)
This is something I came up with. Cut just wide enough that a slight pressure is on the spring. Attached with a screw gun. Or nails.
If I made them again I would put the jaw inset closer to the top.

Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/21/13 06:38 PM

Thanks Kusko, going to order some.

FT, that is a good idea! gets the trap up to eye level.
Posted By: mad_mike

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 04:11 AM

Originally Posted By: trapper378
Yep making them. I used to do the same with the 10 inch spikes. I like this a lot better. You dont have to have a branch to wire the trap and bait to.


That is smart! Have you used the set locations for more than a season? The reason I ask is that I found that the places I returned to set anything that had to do with a spruce tree was oozing sap. I started making my poles from either alder or dead material. I have noticed a bunch of sets hacked into green trees. Probably not a big deal the first season. The grading on pitch pockets on marten is harsh.
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 05:26 AM

Yeah I leave them out and reset them every year. The reason I hacked the bark off was because after a few catches they would get loose. With the bark gone they stay tight. The pitch does get bad on some of them but with this set up I mostly get front foot catches so the marten cant reach the tree so its not a issue. With the front foot catches they cant reach the bait either so I hardly ever have to rebait.
Posted By: mad_mike

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 05:41 AM

I like the rig! I want to try those mounted to big alder or dead spruce.
Posted By: HFT AK

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 05:47 AM

Here is a question. I was talking to a buddy the other day and he shared a few articles on marten being attracted to certain colors. Yellow being the predominate one that was checked out. Anyone have any feed back on this subject?
trapper378, is that hot pink for a attractor or a visual cue for you?
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 05:57 AM

Yukon I bought 1000 bags for $70 delivered so 7 cents a piece, out of Ontario. When I'm cutting up game I toss a handful of scrap into each bag and tie it off. Freeze them until needed. I pull the tag end through the back of my boxes. I found mice didn't seem to bother the bait as much. I do try and suspend the bait away from sides.

I've never noticed any preference for colours by marten.
Posted By: trapper378

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 05:58 AM

I painted them pink so I could see them. I think the bait bag might act as an attractor though.
Posted By: garyalaska

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 05:59 AM

Originally Posted By: trapperjoeAK
They are "classic 600"s. Basicly 9" across. Which sounds huge, but one size smaller and they don't fit in my experience. These fit all brands 120's I have including belisles.

Quick picture of fit.



I use classic 300 if you insert it 1/2" into pot then set the trigger the pot will expand and hold the trap rock solid. I have done it at -30 and it works fine. I hate using wire so I just cut s lit in top of pot and slid lath under jaws and through pot.
Posted By: mad_mike

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 06:27 AM

I have found the lime green flagging to be my favorite, at least I can see it well. AV posted pics of it at my box sets.
Posted By: martentrapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 06:40 AM

378, make some more................I got money!!
mt
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 07:02 AM




There's no such thing as a free lunch
Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 04:37 PM

Originally Posted By: mad_mike
I like the rig! I want to try those mounted to big alder or dead spruce.


Bet I know what you are doing this weekend! I'll have to see if I need anything welded. grin
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/22/13 04:51 PM

Ya you might be able to make some extra $$$ there 378, keep us posted............
Posted By: Bravo Bad Back

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/26/13 03:40 AM

I thought i'd add a set that i used years ago after i received a couple dozen #55's with some really good strong springs. At first i made boxes for them but it got to be a pain in the butt remembering which section had the 55's on it so, presto, i came up with the idea of the coffee container set.

I kept the lid to hold the trap in place and just trimmed out the inside, this way the can could be wired in place to a tree, trap facing the ground with the outer part of the lid that was trimmed holding it in place.

I would wire a bit of bait to the inside top of the container, place the trap and snap on the lid, done. I usta run a couple of dozen of these mixed in and the red can actually acted as a visual aid to draw marten in. I used the larger 2 lb container and it has formed handholds that hold the bottom jaws of the trap snug up against it so the trap doesn't push in when a marten enters.

Just to be clear, i can't used this set anymore due to the AIHTS certified trap screw job we got in Canada but if the containers are available to folks in the states they might want to give it a whirl. It worked very well for me set about 3-4 ft high, very similar to a flower pot set.

Enjoy.







Posted By: Dirt

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/26/13 03:33 PM

Originally Posted By: TrapperdeanMB


Just to be clear, i can't used this set anymore due to the AIHTS certified trap screw job we got in Canada but if the containers are available to folks in the states they might want to give it a whirl.


Oh My! blush
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/26/13 04:25 PM

I suspect marten are color blind.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/26/13 04:49 PM

Aren't they green?
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/26/13 05:27 PM

o man ! They are blue. Better get your eyes checked.
Posted By: Bravo Bad Back

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/26/13 06:27 PM

Fine, i'm taking my yellow coffee containers and going home !! grin

I suspect millions of dollars have been spent on how animals see colors and beyond the cones and rods thing, i have no idea. I do think that a dark round shape stuck to the side of a tree must arose their curiousity ??

Then again maybe its the lingering odor of coffee and they just need a java fix, who knows ?
Posted By: shorthair

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/27/13 03:43 PM

ttt
Posted By: HFT AK

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/27/13 04:19 PM

My buddy had sent me this study. Food for thought.

Using colour to increase stoat (Mustela
erminea) trap catch
DOC SCIENCE INTERNAL SERIES 187
Billy Hamilton
Published by
Department of Conservation
PO Box 10-420
Wellington, New Zealand
DOC Science Internal Series is a published record of scientific research carried out, or advice given, by
Department of Conservation staff or external contractors funded by DOC. It comprises reports and
short communications that are peer-reviewed.
Individual contributions to the series are first released on the departmental website in pdf form.
Hardcopy is printed, bound, and distributed at regular intervals. Titles are also listed in the DOC
Science Publishing catalogue on the website, refer http://www.doc.govt.nz under Publications, then
Science and Research.
© Copyright September 2004, New Zealand Department of Conservation
ISSN 1175–6519
ISBN 0–478–22606–3
In the interest of forest conservation, DOC Science Publishing supports paperless electronic
publishing. When printing, recycled paper is used wherever possible.
This report was prepared for publication by DOC Science Publishing, Science & Research Unit; editing
by Helen O’Leary and Geoff Gregory and layout by Geoff Gregory. Publication was approved by the
Manager, Science & Research Unit, Science Technology and Information Services, Department of
Conservation, Wellington.
CONTENTS
Abstract 5
1. Introduction 6
1.1 Sensory attractants in baits 7
1.2 Objectives 7
2. Methods 8
2.1 Trapping 8
2.2 Statistical analysis 8
2.2.1 Site or colour difference in trap catch 9
2.2.2 Effect of sex on capture probability 9
3. Results 9
3.1 Trapping 9
3.2 Trap catch and site differences 10
3.3 Trap catch and trap colours 10
3.4 Trap catch for bright and dull covers 11
3.5 Trap catch and sex bias 11
3.6 Bycatch 12
4. Discussion 12
5. Recommendations 13
6. Acknowledgements 14
7. References 14
DOC Science Internal Series 187 5
© September 2004, New Zealand Department of Conservation. This paper may be cited as:
Hamilton, W. 2004: Using colour to increase stoat (Mustela erminea) trap catch. DOC Science
Internal Series 187. Department of Conservation, Wellington. 15 p.
Using colour to increase stoat (Mustela
erminea) trap catch
Billy Hamilton
Ecological Networks Limited, 10 Coughtrey Street, St Clair, Dunedin
A B S T R A C T
This study compared the effects of four different-coloured trap covers on stoat
(Mustela erminea) trap catch at Okia Reserve and Allens Beach on the Otago
Peninsula, South Island, New Zealand. These sites bordered yellow-eyed
penguin (Megadyptes antipodes) colonies. Kill traps were each placed within a
moulded plastic cover coloured yellow, red, green, or black. All four colours
were equally allocated among the 200 traps, giving 50 covers of each colour.
Traps were baited with rabbit. They were then re-baited and checked every two
days for stoats caught, bycatch of other animals, and disturbed traps. Traps
were left at each site for 20 nights. During the study, 18 stoats (12 female and
six male), two ferrets (M. furo) (one of each sex), eight hedgehogs (Erinaceus
europaeus), and one rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus) were caught. Data were
analysed using MatLab™ simulations. There was no statistically significant
difference in trap catch between sites. Stoats had a higher probability of being
caught in traps with yellow covers than those of other colours, and in traps with
bright covers (yellow and red) than in those with duller covers (green and
black).
Keywords: Colour, sex bias, stoats, Mustela erminea, attractants, traps, Otago
Peninsula, New Zealand.
6 Hamilton—Colour as an attractant for trapping stoats
1. Introduction
New Zealand’s ecological communities have evolved in the absence of
mammalian predators for over 80 million years. Its flora and fauna are especially
vulnerable to introduced mammalian pests (Holdaway 1989), such as stoats
(Mustela erminea), ferrets (M. furo), weasels (M. nivalis), cats (Felis catus),
mice (Mus musculus), rats (Rattus spp.), and hedgehogs (Erinaceus
europaeus) have become major predators of New Zealand’s native birds,
lizards, and/or invertebrates (Gibb & Flux 1973; King 1990; McLennan et al.
1996). Of these introduced pests, stoats are now considered one of the most
important predators of native avifauna in New Zealand (King 1984; O’Donnell
et al. 1996).
To combat the effects of stoats and other introduced vertebrate pests and to
preserve and/or enhance indigenous biodiversity, control measures have
become important aspects of conservation within New Zealand. With respect to
stoats, labour-intensive trapping and poisoning have been the main methods of
control. These control operations can be expensive, and any methods that can
be developed to maximise cost-effectiveness are not only common sense but
also a requirement for any responsible conservation management team.
Stoats are relatively solitary animals and tend to occur at relatively low
abundances within New Zealand (Murphy 1996). These characteristics,
together with their capabilities for wide dispersal and delayed implantation,
combined with problems in trapping this species in late winter and spring (King
& Moody 1982), mean that stoat control operations are both difficult and
expensive. Therefore trapping and poison operations should be focused and
take into consideration any behavioural characteristics that make the target
animal more vulnerable to the control methodology.
In the past, control station placement (Doyle 1990; Murphy & Dowding 1995;
Dilks et al. 1996), spacing and layout of traps (Lawrence & O’ Donnell 1999),
and the use of specific baits and lures, have all been trialed to increase the
efficacy of stoat control. Baits and pheromone-based lures in part ‘reward’ the
animal for entering a control station. They can also increase the station’s ‘area
of influence’, as can non-olfactory attractants, thereby increasing both the trap
catch in the ‘area of influence’ and the ability to trap without increasing the
number of traps in an area. Efficacy may then be improved while costs remain
constant.
Baits are often based on the food source that is available to the target animal.
This can be the prey item of highest abundance within an area and can vary
from season to season, e.g. rabbit (Oryctolagus cuniculus), possum
(Trichosurus vulpecula), or mouse (M. Bygate, trapper, pers. comm.; also see
King 1973a, 1973b; Murphy et al. 1992). Other food items such as eggs (Dilks et
al. 1996; Dilks & Lawrence 2000), commercially mixed baits, fish paste, and pet
food have been used in New Zealand (see Griffiths 1999 for review). In many
cases the choice of type of bait is made more for ease of operation and the longlife
properties of the bait than for its attractant capabilities.
DOC Science Internal Series 187 7
1 . 1 S E N S O R Y A T T R A C T A N T S I N B A I T S
Lures use the animal’s sensory perception to attract it into a control station.
Anal gland secretions (Clapperton et al. 1999), the smell of the cut wood used
to build trap covers, and auditory cues such as mice and chick noises have been
trialed (Griffiths 1999). In contrast to auditory and olfactory responses, the
impact of visual cues on the effectiveness of lures and attractants has not been
widely researched. In many cases control stations have been designed to be
camouflaged or less obtrusive within the stoat’s habitat (King & Edgar 1977;
King et al. 1994; Dilks et al. 1996; Blair 2002). Where this is not the case,
control stations have been left by default in their colour of manufacture, with
plastic covers tending to be black, or occasionally green. Part of the reason
behind these colour choices is the cost, with black control stations being at
least 15% cheaper than other colours (B. Keith, Philproof™, pers. comm.).
There is no animal behavioural reason for the selection of these colours.
The lack of research into visual cues is surprising, as stoats are in part visual
predators and are likely to respond to such signs. There have been anecdotal
reports of increased capture rate and bait take when yellow trap surrounds or
bait stations are used in control operations involving other small mammalian
predators (Ratz et al. 1992; K. Mitchell, trapper, pers. comm.). In North
America, colours have been tested for their attractant characteristics to coyotes
(Windberg 1996) and for the presentation of poison to these animals (Mason et
al. 1999). Both vertebrates and invertebrates show preference for different
colours (Ryan 1990; Hsieh et al. 2001; Meagher 2001). These colour preferences
in many cases are reflected by the animal’s sexual selection behaviour. There is
also evidence that colours not normally involved with sexual selection can
trigger animal sensory systems (Ryan 1990). Whatever the mechanisms, if
animals are attracted to certain colours, it is possible that control methodology
can use this to provide efficient and cost-effective control measures. If this
colour preference is sex-biased, there are possibilities for differentially
controlling a particular sex.
1 . 2 O B J E C T I V E S
This study was designed to investigate:
• Use of colour in bait stations as a stoat attractant to improve catch probability.
• Potential differences in trap catch probability from using traps with covers in
four different colours (yellow, red, green and black).
• Potential gender differences in stoat colour preference.
8 Hamilton—Colour as an attractant for trapping stoats
2. Methods
2 . 1 T R A P P I N G
Trapping commenced during February to April 2002 in pastureland, scrub, and
sand dune areas around Allens Beach (45°54´S, 169°38´E). Trapping also
occurred between June and July 2002 around Okia Reserve (45°49´S,
169°43´E). Both of these areas are situated on the Otago Peninsula, South
Island, New Zealand, and border important breeding grounds for yellow-eyed
penguin (Megadyptes antipodes).
At each site, 200 No. 6 Fenn™ kill-traps were laid. These traps were placed
within single Philproof™ coloured moulded plastic trap covers (red, green,
yellow, and black). The coloured covers were allocated equally among the
traps, giving 50 of each colour.
Traps were set out in groups of four, with each different colours present. These
50 groups were spaced at 100 m intervals along tracks within the forest and
scrub habitat. Traps were baited with fresh rabbit meat. They were checked and
then re-baited with rabbit every two days. Traps were left at each site for 20
nights, giving a maximum of 1000 trap nights per colour and 10 separate
recording events per site.
Stoats caught, bycatch of other animals, disturbed traps, and traps with bait
removed were recorded during each check. The sex of mustelids caught was
determined by autopsy.
2 . 2 S T A T I S T I C A L A N A L Y S I S
To establish if the different coloured trap covers had different capture
probabilities, the data were analysed using simulations run in Matlab™ (Release
12). Several models were used to predict capture probabilities, and simulations
were then run to see how likely it was to obtain the observed data. Expected
capture probabilities for each model were calculated by averaging the observed
capture rates over the appropriate combinations. To measure the difference
between the observed data and the expected results if the null hypothesis were
true, a ‘difference’ value was calculated. This difference value was the sum of
the squared differences between the observed captures for each combination of
colour and site and the expected number of captures if the null hypothesis was
true.
Using the expected capture probabilities, the trapping sessions were simulated
5000 times and difference values were calculated for each simulation. If the null
hypothesis were true, the difference values calculated for the observed data
would be similar to those calculated for the simulated data. If not true, the
difference values calculated for the simulated data would only rarely be greater
than those calculated for the observed data.
DOC Science Internal Series 187 9
2.2.1 Site or colour difference in trap catch
The analyses tested whether there was a significant difference between the two
sites. The null hypothesis for this analysis was that the capture probabilities for
each tunnel colour did not differ between sites. Expected capture probabilities
were calculated by pooling captures and total trap nights for each colour and
dividing captures by trap nights, giving four probabilities.
The next set of simulations looked at differences between colours or sites. The
null hypothesis for this analysis was that there was no effect of colour on
capture probability. All captures and trap nights were pooled for this analysis.
The next set of simulations looked at the difference between bright (yellow and
red) versus dull colours (green and black). The null hypothesis for this was that
bright traps had a different capture probability from dull traps.
2.2.2 Effect of sex on capture probability
The two models described below were used to assess if there was a difference
between capture probabilities for males and females.
Model one: No difference between male and female capture
rates
The probability of capture was calculated by averaging the capture for each
colour at each site between males and females. This model fitted eight different
capture probabilities. If there was a significant difference between male and
female capture rates, the calculated difference for the observed data would be
greater than the calculated difference values for the simulated data for 95% of
the time (using a 5% level of significance).
Model two: Different capture probabilities for the bright
and dull covers
This model used two capture probabilities, the first for bright covers and the
second for dull covers. These capture probabilities were the same at both sites
and for both sexes.
3. Results
3 . 1 T R A P P I N G
Over 5654 trap nights (2764 at Allens Beach and 2890 at Okia Reserve), 12
female and six male stoats, one male and one female ferret, eight hedgehogs,
and one rabbit were caught and killed in traps. Equal numbers of stoats were
trapped and killed at Allens Beach and Okia Reserve. Both the ferrets were
trapped at Okia Reserve, while equal numbers of hedgehogs were caught at
each site, and the rabbit was caught at Allens Beach. Of the stoats, seven were
caught in red traps, one in a black trap, and 10 in yellow traps; no stoats were
captured in traps with green covers. Ferrets were caught in red and yellow
traps, and hedgehogs were equally dispersed among all four colours.
10 Hamilton—Colour as an attractant for trapping stoats
3 . 2 T R A P C A T C H A N D S I T E D I F F E R E N C E S
There was no difference in the trapping probabilities between the Allens Beach
and Okia Reserve sites. The difference value for the observed data was 14.2
(Table 1). Over 5000 simulations this value was surpassed 2601 times (P =
0.52), indicating that there was not enough evidence to reject the null
hypothesis that there was no difference in the trapping probabilities between
sites.
TABLE 1. OBSERVED AND EXPECTED CAPTURES FOR THE NULL HYPOTHESIS OF NO DIFFERENCE IN
CAPTURE PROBABILITIES BETWEEN TRAP SITES.
TRAP TOTAL TRAP OBSERVED EXPECTED CAPTURE D2
NIGHTS CAPTURES CAPTURES PROBABILITY
Okia Allens Okia Allens Okia Allens Okia Allens
Yellow 738 698 3 7 5.14 4.86 0.0070 4.6 4.6
Red 696 708 5 2 3.47 3.53 0.0050 2.3 2.3
Green 732 712 0 0 0.00 0.00 0.0000 0.0 0.0
Black 724 646 1 0 0.53 0.47 0.0007 0.2 0.2
Capture probability is calculated from the pooled captures and total trap nights for each colour at both sites.
D2 = squared difference between observed and expected values, which were then summed to obtain the total difference value.
3 . 3 T R A P C A T C H A N D T R A P C O L O U R S
There were significant differences between the capture probabilities for the
trap cover colours, with yellow trap covers being the most successful. In this
analysis all captures and trap nights were pooled, giving a capture probability of
0.0032, which was used to calculate the expected captures (Table 2). The total
difference calculated for the observed data was 47.6. Over 5000 simulations this
value was exceeded 82 times (P = 0.01), indicating that there were significant
differences between the capture probabilities for the trap cover colours.
Looking at the differences for the cell values, most of the lack of fit can be seen
to come from the yellow traps used at Allens Beach.
TABLE 2. RESULTS FOR SIMULATION ANALYSES ASSUMING NO DIFFERENCES
BETWEEN TRAP COVER COLOURS.
TRAP TOTAL TRAP OBSERVED EXPECTED D2
NIGHTS CAPTURES CAPTURES
Okia Allens Okia Allens Okia Allens Okia Allens
Yellow 738 698 3 7 2.35 2.22 0.4 22.8
Red 696 708 5 2 2.22 2.25 7.8 0.1
Green 732 712 0 0 2.33 2.27 5.4 5.1
Black 724 646 1 0 2.30 2.06 1.7 4.2
The capture probability used to calculate the expected capture rates was 0.0032.
D2 = squared difference between observed and expected values, which were then summed to obtain
the total difference value.
DOC Science Internal Series 187 11
3 . 4 T R A P C A T C H F O R B R I G H T A N D D U L L C O V E R S
Bright covers had a higher expected capture probability (0.006) than the duller
covers (0.003). These probabilities were used to calculate the expected capture
frequencies (Table 3). The total calculated difference between the observed and
the expected captures was 16.7 and this was exceeded 2201 times from 5000
simulations (P = 0.44). This shows that there was not enough evidence to reject
the null hypothesis that there were different capture probabilities between the
dull and bright trap covers.
3 . 5 T R A P C A T C H A N D S E X B I A S
There was no difference in capture rate between male and females when the
differences between study site and colours are allowed for. From Table 4, the
observed total difference of 6 was exceeded 4769 times over 5000 simulations.
The results from the simulation show that there was no significant difference
between male and female capture rates (P= 0.95). The probability value is quite
high, suggesting that males and females do have the same recapture rates.
TABLE 3. OBSERVED AND EXPECTED CAPTURES FOR THE NULL HYPOTHESIS
THAT THERE WAS A DIFFERENCE IN CAPTURE PROBABILITIES BETWEEN BRIGHT
AND DULL TRAP COVERS.
TRAP TOTAL TRAP OBSERVED EXPECTED D2
NIGHTS CAPTURES CAPTURES
Okia Allens Okia Allens Okia Allens Okia Allens
Yellow 738 698 3 7 4.42 4.18 2.0 8.0
Red 696 708 5 2 4.17 4.24 0.7 5.0
Green 732 712 0 0 0.00 0.00 0.0 0.0
Black 724 646 1 0 0.00 0.00 1.0 0.0
D2 = squared difference between observed and expected values, which were then summed to obtain
the total difference value.
TABLE 4. DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MALE AND FEMALE CAPTURE RATES
ALLOWING FOR DIFFERENCES BETWEEN COLOURS AND SITE.
EXPECTED CAPTURE EXPECTED CAPTURES OBSERVED DIFFERENCE
PROBABILITIES FROM EXPECTED
Male Female Male Female Male Female
Okia
Yellow 0.0020 0.0020 1.5 1.5 0.25 0.25
Red 0.0036 0.0036 2.5 2.5 0.25 0.25
Green 0.0000 0.0000 0.0 0.0 0.00 0.00
Black 0.0007 0.0007 0.5 0.5 0.25 0.25
Allens Beach
Yellow 0.0050 0.0050 3.5 3.5 2.25 2.25
Red 0.0014 0.0014 1.0 1.0 0.00 0.00
Green 0.0000 0.0000 0.0 0.0 0.00 0.00
Black 0.0000 0.0000 0.0 0.0 0.00 0.00
12 Hamilton—Colour as an attractant for trapping stoats
Capture probabilities for bright and dull covers were calculated assuming that
there was no difference between site or sex (Table 5). The observed total
difference of 14.2 was exceeded 2936 times from 5000 simulations, indicating
that the observed results were consistent with the brighter traps having a
higher capture probability and the dull traps a lower capture probability. Most
of the lack of fit is contributed by the yellow covers and female captures at
Allens Beach.
3 . 6 B Y C A T C H
Hedgehogs were only caught on eight occasions and were caught in equal
numbers in all coloured traps. The trap catch data available for ferrets and the
rabbit were too low to perform any meaningful statistical analyses.
4. Discussion
Animal colour choice or preference is a well-known phenomenon, especially
with respect to sexual selection characteristics (Endler 1978, 1980; Andersson
1982: Burley et al. 1991; Bakker & Mundwiler 1994; Hamilton & Poulin 1997).
In some cases the choice of colour by an animal bears no resemblance to the
animal’s natural habitat or characteristics. An example of this type of colour
choice can be seen where female zebra finches prefer males with artificial red
leg bands over those with other colours even though red is not a colour used
‘normally’ in their sexual selection processes (Burley 1981). It has been
hypothesised that, in these cases, some animals have a predisposition to certain
colours or have a ‘sensory bias’ towards them, and that these biases are not
based on sexual selection characteristics (Ryan 1990).
TABLE 5. CAPTURE PROBABILITIES FOR BRIGHT AND DULL COVERS
CALCULATED ASSUMING NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SITE OR SEX.
EXPECTED CAPTURE EXPECTED CAPTURES OBSERVED DIFFERENCE
PROBABILITIES FROM EXPECTED
Male Female Male Female Male Female
Okia
Yellow 0.0030 0.0030 2.21 2.21 1.46 0.04
Red 0.0030 0.0030 2.08 2.08 0.01 0.84
Green 0.0002 0.0002 0.13 0.13 0.02 0.02
Black 0.0002 0.0002 0.13 0.13 0.02 0.76
Allens Beach
Yellow 0.0030 0.0030 2.09 2.09 0.01 8.47
Red 0.0030 0.0030 2.12 2.12 1.25 1.25
Green 0.0002 0.0002 0.13 0.13 0.02 0.02
Black 0.0002 0.0002 0.11 0.11 0.01 0.01
DOC Science Internal Series 187 13
In this study it was found that stoats were more likely to be caught in traps that
had the brightest coloured trap covers. Of the four colours tested (yellow, red,
green and black), yellow was the most successful for trapping stoats. The data
also indicated that there was no difference between sexes in colour choice, nor
any sex-based preference for bright or dull trap covers; males were just as likely
to pick a yellow and/or brightly coloured trap as females. Although there was
no sex-based colour choice found during this study, it is possible that the
number of captures were too low to pick up a significant difference between
male and female capture rates. Therefore, the effects of colour on sex-targeted
control should not be overlooked.
In this study, colour was used ‘on its own’ to attract stoats. Using colour as an
attractant in concert with other control methods has the potential to increase
the efficacy of stoat control operations. Control operations targeted towards
periods of high pest numbers, or during the prey’s high vulnerability period,
towards specific habitats or ecotones, and also the use of other appropriate
lures and baits may enhance the effects of colour on trap catch probability.
Adoption of a combination of these methods could maximise control. From the
results obtained in this study, it is suggested that the use of colour as an
attractant to increase the efficacy of pest control operations should be an
important consideration in the future design of control stations.
5. Recommendations
More research using a variety of colours is recommended to confirm whether
the preference for bright colours detected in this short study is generally found.
In particular I recommend:
• Monitoring of stoats throughout the year, within areas of known high density,
using greater numbers of the coloured tunnels to test the seasonality of the
coloured effect.
• Trapping in these areas during different seasons to investigate further any
possible sex-based colour bias.
• Trapping of stoats using the brighter coloured traps in conjunction with
differently baited lure types to test for any accumulated effect of different
combinations of the attractants.
• Comparing the effect of different coloured bait stations and coloured bait on
the efficacy of stoat poison control operations.
• Determining the area of influence of yellow control stations compared with
standard coloured stations and the the density required to provide effective
coverage of designated areas.
14 Hamilton—Colour as an attractant for trapping stoats
6. Acknowledgements
I would like to thank the New Zealand Department of Conservation
(investigation no. 3408) for funding this study and E. Murphy for her help and
assistance during the early parts of the project. I am also grateful for the help
received and the access to the land under their ownership and stewardship of
Phil Taylor of City Forests Ltd., Sam Neil of Long Beach, and David Blair of the
Yellow-eyed Penguin Trust. I would also like to thank L. Clelland, H. O’ Leary
and I. Westbrooke for their invaluable comments on an earlier draft. Finally, I
would like to thank C. Hamilton for her support and fieldwork assistance
throughout this project.
7. References
Andersson, M. 1982: Sexual selection, natural selection and quality advertisement. Biological
Journal of the Linnean Society 17: 375–393.
Bakker, T.C.; Mundwiler, B. 1994: Female mate choice and male red colouration in a natural threespined
stickleback (Gasterosteus aculeatus) population. Behavioural Ecology 5: 74–80.
Blair, D. 2002: Field guide to mustelid trapping. Yellow-eyed Penguin Trust, Dunedin.
Burley, N., 1981: Sex ratio manipulation and selection for attractiveness: Science 211: 721–722.
Burley, N.; Tidemann, S.C.; Halupka, K. 1991: Bill colour and parasite levels of zebra finches. Pp.
359–376 in: Loye J.E.; Zuk, M. (Eds) Bird-parasite interactions. Oxford University Press,
Oxford.
Clapperton, B.K.; McLennan, J.A.; Woolhouse, A.D. 1999: Responses of stoats to scent lures in
tracking tunnels. New Zealand Journal of Zoology 26: 175–178.
Dilks, P.; Lawrence, B. 2000: The use of poisoned eggs for the control of stoats. New Zealand
Journal of Zoology 27: 173–182.
Dilks, P.J.; O’ Donnell, C.F.; Elliott, G.P.; Phillipson, S.M. 1996: The effect of bait type, tunnel design,
and trap position on stoat control operations for conservation management. New Zealand
Journal of Zoology 23: 295–306.
Doyle, A.T. 1990: Use of riparian and upland habitats by small mammals. Journal of Mammalogy 71:
14–23.
Endler, J.A. 1978: A predator’s view of animal colour patterns. Evolutionary Biology 11: 319–364.
Endler, J.A. 1980: Natural selection on colour patterns in Poecilia reticulata. Evolution 34: 76–91.
Gibb, J.A.; Flux, J.E.C. 1973: Mammals. Pp. 334–371 in: Williams, G.A.H.; Reed, A.W (Eds). The
natural history of New Zealand. A.H. and A.W. Reed, Wellington, New Zealand.
Griffiths, K. 1999: Stoat control in New Zealand: A review. Wildlife Management Report 108.
University of Otago, Dunedin.
Hamilton, W.J.; Poulin, R. 1997: The Hamilton and Zuk hypothesis revisited: a meta-analytical
approach. Behaviour 134: 299–320.
Holdaway, R. N. 1989: New Zealand’s pre-human avifauna and its vulnerability. New Zealand
Journal of Ecology 12: 11–25.
DOC Science Internal Series 187 15
Hsieh, K.Y.; Huang, B.Q.; Wu, R.L.; Chen, C.T. 2001: Colour effects of lures on the hooking rates of
mackerel longline fishing. Fisheries Science 67: 408–414.
King, C. M. 1973a: On trapping stoats: The English gamekeepers’ method. New Zealand Wildlife 41:
238–241.
King, C. M. 1973b: A system for trapping and handling live weasels in the field. Journal of Zoology
171: 458–464.
King, C. 1984: Immigrant killers. Oxford University Press, Auckland. 224 p.
King, C.M. 1990: The handbook of New Zealand mammals. Oxford University Press, Auckland. 612 p.
King, C. M.; Edgar, R. L. 1977: Techniques for trapping and tracking stoats (Mustela erminea); a
review and a new system. New Zealand Journal of Zoology 4: 193-212.
King, C. M.; Moody, J. E. 1982: The biology of the stoat (Mustela erminea) in National Parks in New
Zealand: IV. Reproduction. New Zealand Journal of Zoology 9: 103–118.
King, C.M.; O’ Donnell, C.F.J.; Phillipson, S.M. 1994: Monitoring and control of mustelids on
conservation lands. Part 2: Field and workshop guide. Department of Conservation,
Wellington, New Zealand.
Lawrence, B.L.; O’ Donnell, C.F.J. 1999. Trap spacing and lay-out: experiments in stoat control in the
Dart Valley, 1992–95. Science for Conservation 118. Department of Conservation,
Wellington, New Zealand. 13 p.
McLennan, J.A.; Potter, M.A.; Robertson, H.A.; Wake, G.C.; Colbourne, R., Dew, L.; Joyce, L.;
McCann, A.J.; Miller, P.J.; Reid, J. 1996: Role of predation in the decline of kiwi, Apteryx spp.,
in New Zealand. New Zealand Journal of Ecology 20: 27–35.
Mason, J.R.; Belant, J.; Barras, A.E.; Guthrie, J.W. 1999: Effectiveness of colour as an M-44 attractant
for coyotes. Wildlife Society Bulletin 27: 86–90.
Meagher, R.L. 2001: Collection of fall armyworm (Lepidoptera: Noctuidae) adults and non-target
Hymenoptera in different coloured uni-traps. Florida Entomologist 84: 77–82
Murphy, E.C. 1996: Research Investigation Summary for 1994/95: Radio-tracking stoats to monitor
the impacts of a poison operation. Science and Research Internal Report 152: 75–76.
Department of Conservation, Wellington, New Zealand.
Murphy, E.C.; Dowding, J.E. 1995: Ecology of the stoat in Nothofagus forest: home range, habitat use
and diet at different stages of the beech mast cycle. New Zealand Journal of Ecology 19:
97–109.
Murphy, E.C.; Gardiner, C.; Eggleton, W. 1992: Preliminary bait trials with captive stoats. Science
and Research Internal Report 128: Department of Conservation, Wellington, New Zealand.
6 p.
O’ Donnell, C.F.J.; Dilks, P.J.; Elliott, G.P. 1996: Control of a stoat (Mustela erminea) population
irruption to enhance mohua (yellowhead) (Mohoua ochrocephala) breeding success in
New Zealand. New Zealand Journal of Zoology 23: 279–286.
Ratz, H.; Moller, H.; Alterio, N., Dymond, S.; Fechney. T.; Wass, R. 1992: Protection of yellow-eyed
penguins from predation: first year report. Wildlife Manangement Report 25. University of
Otago, Dunedin.
Ryan, M.J. 1990: Sexual selection, sensory systems and sensory exploitation. Oxford Survey of
Evolutionary Biology 7: 157–195.
Windberg, L.A. 1996: Coyote responses to visual and olfactory stimuli related to familiarity with an
Posted By: vegasjim

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/27/13 05:11 PM

What?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/27/13 05:16 PM

I knew that----
Posted By: Bravo Bad Back

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/27/13 06:41 PM

Wow !!!! But I don't want to go to school today mom, hehe
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/27/13 06:49 PM

Very interesting study,but they aint very good trappers if they only caught that few animals(18 stoats) in over 5,ooo trap nites.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/29/13 05:07 AM

"no stoats were captured in traps with green covers. "





Luckily I'm not in the stoat killing business
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/29/13 05:24 AM




I have marten boxes that are green - brown - blue - and have seen no difference in catch ratio. Some trappers claim wood boxes catch more marten but I don't agree. Any thoughts on difference between box materials?
Posted By: SK-Trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/29/13 02:03 PM

Were do you get those boxes from bushman? I'll take my chances that my SK martin don't mind different colors.
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 11/29/13 02:27 PM

I doubt they even realize that there ARE different materials. I just can't give them that much credit.
Posted By: Bravo Bad Back

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 03:21 AM

Had some time tonight and read that study ... basically inconclusive but would like more money for further studies, lol ... go figure

It is interesting though
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 04:24 AM

Some thoughts on trap density. Some lines are main travel routes that I use all season. I can afford to miss a marten or two as there is always the next run. Sometimes I'll go miles without a trap. Often a trap will produce a month or even two after being set, snagging a wandering marten, kind of a bonus catch. But when I'm high grading marten and trying to catch as many as possible…as quick as possible, I believe the more traps the better. If you're only leaving the sets down 14 days and pulling them you'll need a trap every 1/4 mile at minimum. Even then you'll miss some marten. I just pulled 40 sets and moved them. I harvested marten of course but still had fresh tracks between my sets. That's the ideal, high grade and move on leaving seed for next season. But it's still tough pulling traps when you see fresh sign, walking away from $100+.
Posted By: psg ak trapper

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 06:45 AM

Witch one is beter for martens conibears or footholds?
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 06:54 AM

Conibears here by far.
Posted By: gibb

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 12:36 PM

I agree Bushman, length of time is a bigger factor than traps per run. For quick snatch and grab runs the more traps the better. Take the cream and keep moving. Staying on one run for the entire season is hard on the marten.
However you can not stock pile marten some years they are there and the next they are not.
Jim
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 01:12 PM

Howdy Jim. I see someone posted one of your box designs. I do have some routes that I've trapped since day one year after year without wiping the population out. But they border large areas that are untrappable due to steep river banks so I'm just picking off those marten that disperse out of these reserves.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/01/13 01:43 PM

Originally Posted By: gibb
I agree Bushman, length of time is a bigger factor than traps per run. For quick snatch and grab runs the more traps the better. Take the cream and keep moving. Staying on one run for the entire season is hard on the marten.
However you can not stock pile marten some years they are there and the next they are not.
Jim


I agree, all of the big producers I know operate this way. Most guys are done by Christmas. Those with really big lines might have to go until January to cover it all but they are pulling and moving lots of traps. Wish I knew why some years there are more marten than other........ I know two trappers that seem to have good numbers every year ( they get well over 200 every year). Both of those guys are in BC and their traplines are a real mix of habitat.....not the typical heavy spruce country.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 04:43 AM



I'm short of marten cubbies again so I decided to get to work. We're having a blizzard so a good day for shop work. bought 15 sheets of corplast for $9 each. Each sheet makes three cubbies. I also bought some surplus cedar fence boards 6' long by 6" wide for $2 each. Cedar is nice as it doesn't rot and when cut into 16" lengths makes a good base for the cubbies. I figure I'll have $4 into each cubby and should be able to knock out 40 by end of the day. Super light cubbies and easy to haul around.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 04:46 AM

How do you attach the screen to the back.
Posted By: RichM AB

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 05:12 AM

Brian,
Great minds think a like! I knocked out 3 dozen of these. about $80 in plywood. I just need to drill a hanging hole at the top back and staple in a 3/4"x3/4 ledger board for the trap to set on. I ran out of staples of all things. I'll do some 160s tomorrow night.

Posted By: gibb

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 12:47 PM

Originally Posted By: yukon254
Originally Posted By: gibb
I agree Bushman, length of time is a bigger factor than traps per run. For quick snatch and grab runs the more traps the better. Take the cream and keep moving. Staying on one run for the entire season is hard on the marten.
However you can not stock pile marten some years they are there and the next they are not.
Jim


I agree, all of the big producers I know operate this way. Most guys are done by Christmas. Those with really big lines might have to go until January to cover it all but they are pulling and moving lots of traps. Wish I knew why some years there are more marten than other........ I know two trappers that seem to have good numbers every year ( they get well over 200 every year). Both of those guys are in BC and their traplines are a real mix of habitat.....not the typical heavy spruce country.


I think there is a direct correlation between small mammal reproduction like voles and mice to marten reproduction. No voles, no young the following year. Expect the marten to bounce back next year lots of mice and voles this year. Had next to none last year.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 04:15 PM

Those look good Rich and I have a bunch that look just like those. These ones are lighter because of the corplast and if I had to I could leave one side loose until in the field. This would allow me to stack them if I had to move a bunch






Boco I don't use screen. I have in the past and have some boxes with screen but I'm not looking to have whiskey jacks working the box. I know the idea is the birds bring in marten but more often you end up killing a bird as well. On these boxes I cut a 8" x 8" plywood square and drilled a 1" hole in the top side. I screwed them onto my bottom cedar bases. As mentioned I can stack the bottoms and just tack the corplast boxes on in the fireld if i want. I use 1.5" roofing nails to hold the corplast to the base.




Jim - for sure…no voles no marten. Interestingly voles are more common in old growth forest while deer mice are more common in clearcuts. Martens prefer voles but I notice marten frequent the clearcut edges so must be after rodents along the edge
Posted By: mtbadger

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 04:57 PM

Do marten ever move back into patches of timber in a burn area?
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 05:27 PM

They certainly like the edge of a burn but it depends on how hot the fire got.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: mtbadger
Do marten ever move back into patches of timber in a burn area?


Some of the best most consistent marten country are old burns....

Jim.....I used to believe that low voles numbers were responsible for marten declines.....I dont anymore.....we have had tons of voles the last few years and few marten.....I think rabbits might be the key in some areas....anywhere I find rabbits I find marten.....where rabbit numbers are low so are marten numbers.....at least in the areas I trap. I am beginning to think that a mixed habitat is conducive to stable populations of marten......most of the biologists I have talked to feel that the best marten habitat is old growth timber.......yet in Yukon old burns or high elevations produce more marten than old growth areas.....yet even these areas seem to have real cycles.....mixed forest country in northern BC doesnt seem to have such drastic cycles......
Posted By: Bravo Bad Back

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 05:45 PM

I set until i start getting 3 females to 1 male, then i start to pull. I have so much untrapped country surrounding me that large numbers of young of the year filter into my line by the next year. Some years i can go for 3 months before i see that ratio.
Posted By: Birchcreekkid

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 06:08 PM

I started cutting a new trail this fall along an old burn from 2009 with old growth on one side and burn on the other along a ridge, plenty of rabbits and voles but so far not a single marten..........
Posted By: white17

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 06:51 PM

Originally Posted By: yukon254
Originally Posted By: mtbadger
Do marten ever move back into patches of timber in a burn area?


Some of the best most consistent marten country are old burns....

Jim.....I used to believe that low voles numbers were responsible for marten declines.....I dont anymore.....we have had tons of voles the last few years and few marten.....I think rabbits might be the key in some areas....anywhere I find rabbits I find marten.....where rabbit numbers are low so are marten numbers.....at least in the areas I trap. I am beginning to think that a mixed habitat is conducive to stable populations of marten......most of the biologists I have talked to feel that the best marten habitat is old growth timber.......yet in Yukon old burns or high elevations produce more marten than old growth areas.....yet even these areas seem to have real cycles.....mixed forest country in northern BC doesnt seem to have such drastic cycles......



Here again I think different areas are different.

My area has consistently produced about 10 marten per lineal mile of trail over the last 30 years or so. The last few years are an obvious exception. Anyway, during those 30 some seasons I doubt that I could have snared & shot 6 bunnies a year. I did have good vole pops during that time with probably 'normal' fluctuations.

From what I've heard from guys trapping around here, things aren't going to be much, if any, better than they were last year.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 07:03 PM

I agree Yukon most real old growth is pretty barren actually. I've trapped marten from the NWT sub artic along the McKenzie River and muskeg meadow flats ( marten heaven) to here in Alberta the boreal - foothills - mountains. I have country that should be full of marten, yet is not. Fellow trappers are taking them in aspen poplar uplands, with very few conifers. But from what I've seen good marten country shares some common traits.

Lots of small creeks and tributaries with grassy sections

Lots of aboreal cover. Marten do not like to be in the open where a hawk or owl can scoop them up. I've seen the chases outlined in the snow. If I'm on a pipeline and I see a tree fallen half way across that's a good place to put a set as marten cross there

Course woody debris - lots of snags and fallen logs sticking out of the snow. Makes for easy access to under the snow and food.

Multiple food sources - rodents - birds - hares - and carcasses. My trail cams at carcasses have revealed how frequently different marten hit the carcass. It can make a significant difference in survival I'm betting.

Well trapped and managed trapline. By removing surplus predators like lynx, wolves, fisher, coyotes, fox, etc. every year you leave more prey bio mass and reduce marten mortality by predator.
Posted By: Tundra 300

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 07:08 PM

That is alot better then our area in Alberta. We are no where near 10 per mile, but population is lower now then it has been in past years. Most of the marten area in an area of mixed old growth bordering a burn of approx 10 yr old.

Posted By: northway

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 07:10 PM

Originally Posted By: yukon254
Originally Posted By: mtbadger
Do marten ever move back into patches of timber in a burn area?


Some of the best most consistent marten country are old burns....

Jim.....I used to believe that low voles numbers were responsible for marten declines.....I dont anymore.....we have had tons of voles the last few years and few marten.....I think rabbits might be the key in some areas....anywhere I find rabbits I find marten.....where rabbit numbers are low so are marten numbers.....at least in the areas I trap. I am beginning to think that a mixed habitat is conducive to stable populations of marten......most of the biologists I have talked to feel that the best marten habitat is old growth timber.......yet in Yukon old burns or high elevations produce more marten than old growth areas.....yet even these areas seem to have real cycles.....mixed forest country in northern BC doesnt seem to have such drastic cycles......


I agree. Have voles running across the snowmachine trail there are so many and yet, the marten #'s have continually stayed low. I'm in areas of old burn, new burn, old forest, etc. A real good mix of stuff and pretty much in the the 20 year old burn is where there are the most.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Marten set tutorial - 12/02/13 09:46 PM

Brian, you brought up a good point I have been wondering about, when you mentioned removing surplus predators........I am thinking about the trapline I got a few years ago.....this line used to produce well over 200 marten every year....then it went dormant ( nobody trapped it) the wolf population exploded and now marten numbers are way down......Ive been thinking about that all summer and wonder if there is a correlation.......Would love to hear more of your thoughts on that....
Posted By: Grizzly6652

Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 01:25 AM

Howdy all, Newbie here......curious about the correct positioning and orientation of the trigger on 110's. Probably a dumb question but I've seen some different configurations....thanks
Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 04:29 PM

Marten are pretty bold, so I don't think a "special" trigger configuration is needed. Out of habit, I usually leave one wire straight, and the other bent slightly to the side and then about halfway down that wire, put a hockey stick bend. Note: These are for flower pot sets. Boxes get pedals.
Posted By: Grizzly6652

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 05:37 PM

Thanks Viking....while waiting for my Bridger 110's to arrive I had a duke to to use as pattern so I could pre build some boxes. Well the Bridgers came and rather than the trigger being towards the front of the box as it was with the duke, the trigger is now towards the rear of the box. The trigger is just mounted differently on the Bridgers. A friend said it should be toward the front....I could just cut another notch so it would be toward the front but as I'm working outside and it's 5 degrees out it I Thot I'd just give it a try the way it is. I will try what u recommended regarding the bending of the trigger also. Envy u bein in AK...I worked out of fairbanks for 2 summers flying fires, loved it
Posted By: white17

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 05:54 PM

I prefer the trigger inside when using body grips. Curious as to why you chose the 110's ?
Posted By: Starvalleytrappe

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 07:17 PM

You'll just get more of a suitcase catch. There bothe gonna work. 120's would be a better choice. But 110's will still kill them. Good luck
Posted By: Grizzly6652

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 07:41 PM

Howdy White thanks for the reply....I suppose I chose the 110's on recommendation from a friend here....I did read a lot of posts some sayin 110's and others sayin 120's so will see how the 110's do....I'll give the 120's a try. how's things in mc grath, spent a lil time there a few summers ago. U know any baumgartners there?
Posted By: Grizzly6652

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 07:51 PM

Ok Star I appreciate that ........ So I take it the 120's kill quicker than the 110's, is that right? If so I'll git me some. Bein it's my first year trapping I've got lots to learn
Posted By: white17

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 07:57 PM

Well heck yeah ! My house is right across the street from Mike & Laural, and Ernie's son lives just south of me.
Posted By: Grizzly6652

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 09:57 PM

Great folks!!!!!
Posted By: white17

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/03/13 10:17 PM

Absolutely !
Posted By: Starvalleytrappe

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/04/13 04:21 AM

They are stronger and also easier to stabilize in the box. Definitely worth the extra buck or so IMO. Good luck, it's highly addictive
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 02:50 PM

W-17 I've been thinking about your comment about trap cubby visibility being a visual draw for marten. I know I use to hang wings and attractants at marten cubbies but stopped because I saw no difference in catch ratio…but I wouldn't have if the cubby itself is the drawing card.

So yesterday when setting my boxes I thought about it, and cut all the spruce boughs that covered or camo'd my boxes. I've got them all exposed where they can be seen from quite a ways down the trail. I'm going to try and keep track of any differences.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 03:02 PM

What about lures? Some trappers claim there's no value for marten, others swear by it. Personally I believe it can help pull them in. My favourite commercial lure is Forsyth's Marten Magic, but I've had just as much luck with a glycerin / skunk essence mix. early in the season I use Anisette
Posted By: white17

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 03:45 PM

I think lure makes a difference. I've seen many times where a marten will cross my trail and smell a set further away and turn at right angles to get to it.

Here's an observation that I made a couple years ago. I may have put it on here before.

I was sitting at the kitchen table looking out the window. The hill falls away from the cabin at that point. I also had a pile of beaver guts below a tree on the other side of the cabin out of sight of the down hill side. ( i had just dropped the guts out to freeze and use elsewhere).

Anyway, i see this marten working his way uphill toward the cabin. As I watched, he moved back and forth from one side to another. Every once in a while he would stand up like a bear and look around. He probably did this 8-10 times. Eventually he found the pile of guts but it was clear that he could smell them but not see them. He was standing in order to get a look at where the smell was coming from. Possibly looking for birds too.

My take on it was that they hunt more by sight and sound, but when those two fail, they use that nose to get them on the right track.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 04:19 PM

A marten has excellent hearing,and uses it to key in on food sources in a lot of ways.Marten are attracted from great distances to your boxes by the sounds of birds and squirrels working the large bait.
When luring animals sight and sound are much more effective than smell for longer range and they are 360 degrees. The animal doesn't have to cross the scent line.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 04:44 PM

Boco logically it makes sense that a marten seeing a bird may investigate, but do you really think it makes any difference in your overall harvest. My boxes used to have large wire at the back so whiskey jacks could work them. All it did for me was result in more dead birds, and traps put out of action. Since I closed up my backs I can't remember killing a bird. I think lots of times we just hear a theory and assume it's right, me I'm a born skeptic and have to see for myself. Birds on my marten sets are a liability to me. But Birds on Lynx gang snare set - bonus!
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 04:47 PM

In truth what I think we're really talking about is how fast you catch a marten, not if. If you leave a set in their territory long enough you'll likely catch them. But if you set up on their travel routes, with a highly visible set, and a good lure, you can take them faster, and move on.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 04:59 PM

It sure helps in my situation.I now catch the same amount of marten or more with 30 boxes as I did with 80 before using a large bait attractor.
Bird (whiskeyjack) catches in the vertical box opening down are virtually non existant.
I trap the one side of my line for about 3 or 4 weeks(4 or 5 checks) and the other side(much better marten habitat) for 6 to 8 weeks.
On my managed registered trapline the catch varies very little from year to year,it is the effort and expense that I strive to control.Efficiency equals profit.I also trap all species simultaneously,except after land fur closes,then its just beaver and otter.
To me it is all about having a catch in most of my traps on check day.
Posted By: takotna

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 06:49 PM

The "big move" that nobody knows why! grin yup, you got to be ready! A few yrs ago a old guy here asked me if I noticed anything different on the marten catch at full moon, tried to think of a intelligent answer but couldn't, he said next full moon count the ratio of male to female, I was shocked and still am to this day I get almost all fm when checking just right before and after a full moon, anybody else notice this?
Posted By: white17

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 06:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Oh Snap
Due to a lowlife I have been dealing with has forced me to stop using attractors since he takes some of them. I have gone totally to small amounts of rotten beaver, no lure. Using that method 2 seasons ago before the crash I did better than usual.

Many years ago I had a set in the middle of a meadow on a lonely tree. I used spearmint as a lure. The next trip the marten's tracks came off the hill in a straight line to the pole set. Nice catch. Never happened again and I believe the spearmint was fresh and he was attracted by the smell. I used it for a while without the same result. It looses it's odor fairly rapidly----!

Like White I have watched marten hunt for food. What I don't know though is do they see the voles or do they smell them. The last one I watched sure used his nose just like a fox or dog after something under the snow.

Our sleds were outside the cabin and the bait in open boxes on them. The next morning Mr. marten had completely removed all of our bait and wings-----! Never left anything open again.

My 2 cents worth!
Larry



I think they hear them first, similar to a fox.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/05/13 06:54 PM

I have found lure makes all the difference.....like Bushman I use marten magic or any skunky type lure. Going into my line I have to go through a FN line that a friend of mine traps. This area is incredible marten country....the best Ive ever seen actually. Anyway this guy NEVER uses lure. On that 40-mile stretch of trail catching 100 plus marten would be simple every year.....yet his take is always dismal. Many times I have seen where marten run right past his sets. He does two things wrong IMO....his boxes are to high and he doesnt use lure.....
Posted By: Wolverinebait

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 02:26 AM

I think you can just look at an animal and tell what senses it relies on to a large degree. Marten, when compared to other members of the weasel family, (especially mink), are set apart mostly by the size of their ears,... they're huge by any standard! And their eyes too, are bigger than the other family members, for the size of the head/body. But very short ears, and small beady eyes seem to be the norm for the rest,...







Cats don't seem to have anything lacking,... clearly their ear tuffs aid in their excellent hearing,... and no eyes shine at night quite like a lynx,...



And the canines are well-equipped in all areas it seems too,... whether you stink, shine or squeak,... they're gonna find you,... maybe that's why predator calling doesn't work all that well on otters, unless you can make a sound like a fish,... cool






But maybe the biggest ears of all belong on the very thing everything else wants to hear & find,...




Posted By: takotna

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 03:28 AM

Neat pic WB! A very sensible observation too! smile
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 03:41 AM

A great set of photos WB. I have heard marten vocalize. I ran one off out of my yard as it was stalking a robin's nest. it was making some cool sounds like a rolling chirping noise. It was agitated and showed me who was boss by coming back at night and killing the Robin chicks.

Who's going to step up and put the rodent squeak machine at their marten sets. you can buy them for photography purposes and i know a guy who gets dramatic cougar photos on still cameras using them. he uses bird chirps. hard on batteries but deadly on lynx perhaps.

We talked about marten that are reluctant to enter sets. it seems to happen from time to time. Ever use any tricks for reluctant marten? I've frozen mice i catch all year at our place, used weasel carcasses, know a guy who saves his egg shells and uses those. I was thinking about saving the fur I comb out of marten and placing a small ball of it in the cubby. Marten don't go cold often but when they do it can be frustrating.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 03:47 AM

Marten never hesitate to enter a box in the vicinity of a large bait.Their penchant for taking away a bone to hole up with leads them to the box with the smaller piece.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 04:29 AM

Boco - when you were talking about birds as an attractant you also mentioned you're using a big bait. That got me thinking as I have a lot of trail camera footage of baits from the last three years of wolverine research. Basically a whole beaver hanging where only a climber can get at it. We got thousands of images of wolverine-fisher-lynx-fox-cougar-squirrel - whiskey jacks - and lots of marten on film.

I could see no link between a whiskey jack showing up and then a marten appearing. I'd say 80% of the marten pictures were at night also so bird action is minimal. I'm still not convinced bird activity at marten sets makes much difference.

I do agree though that a vertical box on a tree prevents whiskey jacks from getting caught but it's my least favourite marten set. I like a leaning pole set.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 04:31 AM

So Boco I think you're perhaps using a technique i use on my mountain line. I'll hang a whole beaver on a river flat and then place marten boxes around it. The presence of a whole beaver there year after year seems to draw them in. I'm unable to access 70% of that trapline so I want to pull the fur into these feeding stations. is this a method you're using in some way?
Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 04:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Bushman
Boco - when you were talking about birds as an attractant you also mentioned you're using a big bait. That got me thinking as I have a lot of trail camera footage of baits from the last three years of wolverine research. Basically a whole beaver hanging where only a climber can get at it. We got thousands of images of wolverine-fisher-lynx-fox-cougar-squirrel - whiskey jacks - and lots of marten on film.

I could see no link between a whiskey jack showing up and then a marten appearing. I'd say 80% of the marten pictures were at night also so bird action is minimal. I'm still not convinced bird activity at marten sets makes much difference.

I do agree though that a vertical box on a tree prevents whiskey jacks from getting caught but it's my least favourite marten set. I like a leaning pole set.

100% my observations and experiences.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 04:47 AM

AV - Your cheque is in the mail!
Posted By: Boco

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 05:53 AM

A lot of the marten activity here is in the daytime.Marten tend to take advantage of the sunshine and hole up with a bone in the colder weather at night.Shrew and vole activity are massive at a large bait as evidenced by holes and scat.I do not feel the need to gang set at the larger bait as a marten once keyed on the big bait and its prey activity around it tends to live near it and keeps returning to it so I will have a pelt to pick up on most runs of the line.Sometimes several marten will set up shop in the vicinity of the large bait and will be picked up in the nearby box sometimes hours after it is re-baited and the trap activated again.This is especially true at very large piles of beaver carcasses,where marten may actually live inside the carcass pile.
Posted By: Bushman

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 03:16 PM

I agree Boco big baits are a fantastic draw. I once had a marten living in a moose carcass.
Posted By: yukon254

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 04:25 PM

I know a few guys in BC that because of those awful full time jobs only have time to check a few traps on the weekends......they make big bait piles and trap them all season. Two or three of these bait piles will pull in a lot of fur over the winter!
Posted By: alaska viking

Re: Trigger positioning? - 12/06/13 04:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Bushman
AV - Your cheque is in the mail!

??? Endorsement fee? confused
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