Otters & 330's question

I recently caught 2 otters and can't figure how they got caught as they did. Bridger 330's, triggers tuned and set on the bottom in a V, these were at a culvert set. I caught 2 beaver in the same 330's and both were caught right behind the head with one set of jaws, neither were suitcased. So I guess both were hit with the entry side jaws? The otters I can't figure, both were hip caught, one right in front of the back legs, one 3 inches further forward. Neither were suitcased. It seems to me that if the entry side jaws hit them in front of the hips the exit side jaws should have been right behind the head. If the exit side jaws hip caught them the entry side jaws should have caught the tail. Any guesses how this worked?

they back into the trap. Caught several by the tail in belisles.

They just so fast

Likely pulled their head out of the jaws.

If your Bridgers are like the ones I had, it takes a lot of pressure to make them fire. This gives the otter time to be working past the trigger before it fires.

I cross my trigger wires and bend into the "T" shape and set with it on the bottom.
Try rubbing a little wax on the jaw right before you set it. ( but make sure the dog fits the jaw with no slack )
After I started waxing my 330's and using the T bend shape on my triggers my hip catches are almost zero.

I beleave as long as its go'n to the fur shead. Its a good catch.

Otter are fast.They got caught.Congrats

They can weasel their way through a 330 pretty easy. Probably bumped the trigger with their hips.

Yep. Rarely catch by the head neck in a 330. The 280 is a better otter trap, IMO .

This has been my experience when they are caught by the hips and the body is facing the other jaws where they should have been suitcased. Look for the mark on the neck when they are put up.

Either they avoided the trigger or were speeding and got too far thru the trap or they powered their front end out of the jaws.

I have always gotten more consistent head/neck strikes with 280 than a 330. I haven't used any of my 330's since I filed the triggers though. I suspect the 280 will still out perform.

The thought that an otter can get whacked by a 330 and then pull its head out just blows my mind. If I dry land catch one in a foothold
I don't believe I'd feel safe unless I hit it with an 06! I've skinned both of them I'll check for marks when I get home. Thanks for the info.

They can pull their head out if the rest of the trap is being held open by their body . Not if they are just caught by the head though .

As stated above —use 280s

Many times it has to be put up to see the mark. Was pretty common to see in Duke 330s that I started trapping otter in.

Many otter will get out of a 33o entirely if there is a gap between the jaws,(like the old square jaw series 1 victors).
A 330 of any kind is not the best otter trap especially when set on land.

I will take a true magnum 330 in the water every day over any 280. Bigger opening for them to go through, and less for you to block down. With Belisles and Savageaus the catch will generally be sitting the stabalizer or stabalizing sticks in place.

Most places in the states don't allow 280's on land. If legal they are a great land trap and I would take over a 330 when targeting otter.

IMHO a non-magnum 330 should never be used for targeting otter.

330's take otter all right,but 220 is the correct otter trap for a northern trapper.Simple reasons,330's have to be set too far from the ice tunnel where the current is weak when using the millette set,and freeze in.Also gang setting is the way to go with otter,and you can set 2 or even 3 220's with only a couple block sticks between them with the opportunity for multiple catches,instead of a bunch of fencing for one 330(which only gives you a chance at a single catch).

In your specific conditions they may be better, but don't reflect 95% of the trappers on the board.

The trap being held open a little by the rear end makes sense, thanks trapper les. I've ordered some 280's since there seems to be a good population of otter there.

I don't know about trappers who quit when it gets cold.That is when the fur gets marketable,no wonder so many complain about the prices,lol.

Well Boco, these are Alabama critters, if it goes to icing up their gonna clean the store shelves of bread and milk and hibernate till spring.

IMO a 330 size trap is a poor choice for otter unless it is fully submerged.
For a fast moving otter a 330 quite often closes on them to far back. My experience with the smaller 280 is that it closes faster and results in fewer, if any, poor catches. The 280 will also capture more of the incidental mink and muskrats that often trigger beaver and otter sets without getting caught. Thus it is the ultimate otter trap IMO. The 220 also has its place also in those narrow pinch points.

I've got a few thousand otters and a good bit of them happen like that. I believe they either don't hit the triggers until through a bit or they weasel their upper body out after caught. Then again, I've never watched it.

Were those otter in 280's??? I don't think so!

If I find a tight necked down area I think I would rather use a 220 than a 330. But most of my water ways are to wide. Would need a lot of fencing down to get them into a 220. A lot of the newer replacement triggers I have put on my 330's are much longer, so I keep them that way. Spread them into a wider V shape and put the trigger on the bottom in otter runs I set. Works for me.

I had too many otter go around 280's when I used them. If you want a smaller opening just block down a 330 with sticks. Since I swapped to circle triggers on my 330's it stopped hip catches. I shape it more oval than a circle and every otter since has had his head in the circle.

The circle trigger is likely a good choice if you target otter with 330's

What if any effect does the circle trigger have on beaver? I was not targeting Otter but I'd like to do a better job on the ones that do wonder thru my beaver sets.

I don't use them,I would not want them for certain beaver sets but others I think they wouldn't be a problem.

Tried them once on a dozen Belisle 330s. Ended up with too many snapped and empty traps for the way I was trapping. Took them off and never looked back.

Lots of guys swear by them, so they must work for someone out there.

That's difficult for me to believe when so many swear by the 220, which is a 6" opening, for otter. The 280 is an 8" hole which is no problem for any otter I have ever seen. The 280 is a much faster closing trap than the 330 thus a better trap for fast moving otter.

IMO it must have been something in the way you set the 280's up that made the otters avoid them.

Yea I've never seen avoidance with 280's unless that spot had recently caught. I don't think any trap would have helped in those situations because the otter were avoiding the spot not the trap.

This^^^^

Mostly 330s. Bunch of them were in younger years when I didn't know adjusting traps was a thing. But even in current times I see enough poorly caught otters and can't explain it with any certainty.

Again were they in 330's or 280's???

330s. 280s it nearly never happens.

There you go proving 330's are a poor otter trap and the 280 is much superior. Thanks.

ive caught my fair share of otter in everything from 155s to 330s, and id take a 220 or 280 over any of them, there is no modification to can do to a 330 to make it a ethiac trap for an otter, this year i had a big buck otter ( 22 lb) get caught in a 330 by the hinds and pull up a 18 inch rebar and go 25 yards down the stream before tangling in some alders hanging over the bank on the other side. i caught a beaver the day before and it was head caught in the circle trigger, DOA but that otter was able to "weasel" his way threw that circle, a otter can swim up to 60 mph then at the speed of the current and you get how fast a otter is traveling. a 330 is bigger and slower then its smaller counter parts thus naturally catching an otter farther back,

I've never denied that.

Absolutely!!

I have a couple dozen 280’s. I use them quite a bit in spots too narrow or too shallow for 330’s. Our conibear regs do not allow anything bigger than 5 x 5 on dry land, so I’m talking strictly water sets, with 90 percent being completely submerged. A well tuned 330 will reduce hip catches, but not completely. A hip caught otter in a Belisle in the water is a dead otter. I’ll take that.

My goal is a perfect catch every time. I know that is not possible but I feel like the 280 gives me a better chance so far. I haven't targeted otter with 330's enough to count them out yet. Going to try different brands with tuned triggers and see if I can improve upon what I have seen so far with the 330's.

I still feel like the 280 is going to be the better trap when it comes to getting good strikes and clean kills. I shall see.

People think I’m crazy but a Duke 330 magnum is about the best otter trap I have used. I put Belisle dogs on a dozen and tuned them about 5 years ago. I will dig through the pile of Belisle, Bridgers, Victors, and 1216s to find one of those Dukes if I am setting for otter. Those 12 traps have killed a couple hundred beaver and 50 or so otters and I continue to be impressed. I see the 9” height of the Dukes as an advantage for otter trapping. I think an 8x12” magnum jawed bodygrip would be about perfect for otters.

when I caught my first otter I spent everything I had on three dozen new old stock northwoods 280 s tuned them up, put cables on them, and set every narrow spot I could find in my area , I caught one more in the set I caught the first one, then no more until it froze hard then I picked up 2 under ice where they couldn't go around or over the set. I worked my but off trying to keep those 36 traps operable, I saw where several otter went around or over you could see the ice on the dive stick where something wet went over it ,
then I discovered belisle #330s and never looked back I still have my 280s but don't use more than a half dozen . I can keep three times as many 330s working in blocked off channel sets as I can 280s I would use more if we could set them on dry land . on dry land I would probably lean towards 220 s ,my catch rate went way up when I started using 330s it was much nicer to spend my time skinning otter than spending time fencing off places to put a 280 , or looking for a place that narrow .

We are talking about 2 inches. That is literally an extra stick on each side of the trap.

What the?????? A 330 is 10" wide and a 280 is 8", only 2 extra sticks is that much more time consuming? Most of the time only two support sticks are needed for either trap in a pinch point.

I will give my 2 cents worth.....

Most of my otter killing happens at pinch points in very small streams/ditches (a few feet wide and a few inches deep. Many more die at crossovers on dams and near culvert pipes. Rarely are my traps completely submerged...usually not enough water, but I don't set them much on dry land either.....Even though bodygrips less than 9.5" are legal on land further than 10 feet from water in Ga. In the South, due to warmer temps, otters need to be caught in the water or use 6 to 8 feet extension cables so they can reach water. So, my conditions are a bit different than others.

I have 72 Belisle 280s....and 17 Belisle 330s (landowner crushed one digging out beaver dam with backhoe.)

I never intentionally set a 330 for otters.

Belisle 280 is the otter trap...for me.

Don't I wish I could have partly submerged conibears here in Maine.Our conibear traps for beaver and otter have to be completly submerged to be legal.

My situation is close to Swamp Wolf's. I'd say 90% of my otter are caught in less than 12 inches of water. Probably 75% in less than 8 inches. The main exception to that 12 inches or less is in beaver channels.

How many otter do you southern guys catch in a year?

Back when I worked ADC beavers year round my numbers would be about like your muskrat numbers

its not the two inches of fencing outside the trap that makes the difference it the two inch bigger hole that looks more inviting to go through hence not requiring as much of a fence to keep them from going around .drifting leaves go through a 330 easier than a 280 by the time leaves have washed up aginst the frame of a 280 there is not much hole left .

I saw this thread and studied my notes on this seasons otter catch in one area that I'm strictly using 330's. Of the 7 otter caught in this area 1 was hip caught but dead in deep water, two were suit-cased, and 4 were neck caught. These were 330 Dukes.

I work my triggers after I make my set so they swing a little before they engage I believe when otter hit the wires they slink around um and ease through hence getting a LOT of hip catches, I catch a LOT of otter on trail sets in 330s with a diamond shaped configuration set on top and get neck only catches, neck ribs suitcases but no more tail or gut catches like that, I've had big otter hip and tail caught in 220s on dry land with v triggers on top once I started freeing the triggers it stopped, it's my belief that once they hit the free swinging trigger they go on an bulldoze through just like it's just more grass in the trail, when there static I thank it's more of an obstacle to be maneuvered around that's been my findings!
Colt

A 330 Duke is only 1/2" bigger than a 280. You really can't compare them with other 330's

77 was my best season catch. Also had a 75 otter season and many in the 50s and 60s per season. Caught 37 in 7 days a few years back with 4 dozen 280s set. Had perfect water conditions and good fur market that winter. 7 in one check is best day. Have had many 5 and 6 otter days.

Have about 20 in freezer now from past few weeks. Can't keep them out of my beaver control traps...lol

I think you are correct...^^^

I caught 214 in 75 days one year when they were so high. Many years over 150.

Don,t try to catch them now and don,t trap as much at all.

When I went to my first NTA the announcer introduced the speaker as the best otter trapper in the U.S. I ask him how many otter he caught that year. He said 78. I ask him how many was the most he caught in one season. He said 138. At that show Claudie Taylor said he caught 138 his best year. That show was when Claudie just came out with his otter video. I have always enjoyed seeing Claudie. If you get a chance visit with him.

At the same show I remember two guys at the NAFA booth from MO. I asked them if they would tell me their favorite otter set. They said it was a secret. I learned after they walked off, they had caught 38 together that year from a smiling man on the other side of the table.

When I first started trapping otter the Georgia DNR lady that was tagging them said that 80 was about the most she knew of. She thought the population was being depleted.

It makes a big difference if they are worth 100$ instead of 15$. I have never seen or thought otter numbers here were decreased no matter the price.

So that being said hitting the same spots/water or tributaries year after year you did not notice a decline in catch from year to year? Even at taking over 100 per season?

I usually ran over 150 traps or sets a day when I caught the most. Mainly used 330's-some footholds.

The number of sets one is able to keep producing is the key. For 12 years I never missed a day running traps. Christmas or not, during season.

I am too old for the pace now.

How many miles were involved in that 150 trap check? I'm guessing 2+ traps per location?

Were only allowed 6 in my zone, 10 on the northern zone I'm usually headed north after about a week of serious otter trapping! We have enuff to lift the limit but they only reveiw laws that don't pertain to deer once a decade! So I'm not a big numbers man but I study my otter trapping hard so I spend as little time as possible getin my fur! Best percentage I had was the winter my little girl was born, i was out of work I caught 6 otter 5 nights in 2 traps a mile from home with 25$ worth of gas! otter was still high too that's was in 2013. Forgot to add 330s all neck or neck chest suitcased!
Colt

I went to new locations every year. I started with one county and several years trapped in up to 6 counties in a season. The only reason I caught less from one year to the other was price and my age.

I had written permission to trap on over 1000 land owners. Still carry the papers in the back seat of my truck.

Filled truck up with gas in evenings. Used almost a full tank every day. Would travel in dark to furtherest point and work my way back. When I finished, I would travel home in the dark.

40 to 60 locations a day. Three new locations or 10 new sets per day. Would line up new locations as I could in summer.

Kirk understood. I have line out I check on a 72 hour check. Right now I'm sitting at 55 miles, 15 locations and about 50 traps. I set it just before Christmas and to date pulled 22 otter and 47 beaver, the catch is staying fairly steady with just a few lows and several highs. My goal was to get the line set and maintain it for January and February, I was just wondering if it would behoove me to move to new locations next year and rest this line. Of course Virginia is somewhat different than Georgia. Tying back to the post I am running mostly 330s, dozen 280s and very few 220s.

Kirk De that's some trapping there wish we would have not had a limit back when they was high I'd have like to have tryd otter on a long line scale, did yotes fox and cats but they didnt pay like the otter!not saying I coulda done what you did woulda like to have try! That's somt hing to be proud of!

We have always had a 24 hr ck. A two day check from Christmas until feb 1 would sure help the beaver problem to be more controlled.

I just hit the right time to start here. Now, much property is gated and divided. Much limited access. Permission is not the problem, it is all the other factors. The biggest is value of the product and cost to run.

When I caught the most I was able to devote 95% of my time to trapping and had other sources of income. If I had a job like most it would be different.

Swampwolf is exceptional.

I have never noticed the otter population dropping either down here in South Ga in areas where I've taken them year after year. This is swamp country, rivers, streams, ponds everywhere.

..and this is how you do it for all you trappers that want high catch numbers....^^^^

I'll second that!

Kirk>Can I assume that you sold in the raw to the dealer? He sure was a busy man too is you sold to one guy.
A Big congratulations to you!

Back to the original comment on hip caught otter in 330's. In the 60's, the 1960's, we had hip caught otter too in 330 conibears, fairly often. The issue is trigger travel along with a big gap in the jaws. The triggers move too far before the trap fires, that simple, often several inches. They made the traps that way to be user friendly to the trapper. I went to BMI 330 sized magnum in the early 90's. When the traps were new, otter were shoulder or neck caught. In time the traps were a bit slower. Rich Butera explained a simple way, without filing by the way, to make the trap a quick fire. Triggers are four way to begin with so the trap can be made to fire with an inch of travel or less, no hip catches or misses. Because of issues with hip catches with conibears some abandoned 330's for smaller 280's and 220's, but anyone who knows how to adjust a 330 knows that it is the best all around trap for beaver, otter and rats. You have to be careful not to make the trap too much of a quick fire because if you "go over" too far, it can trip in far less than an inch or you might not even be able to set it. However, if you do go too far with the quick fire adjustment you can easily bring it back and make it "sing." Magnums are the only way to go, no gaps, no slippage.

Trapping hard every day then skinning will burn you out.I like 3 days a week nowadays(used to do 5),and trap longer-the entire season.Nuisance is a bit different,but extended checks help with efficiency for the bottom line(allows to set more lines and less empty traps checked on each line).

I sold to NFA after trapping my 3rd year. I sold to them for many years. The fur market soon started changing to going lower on otter after I had been trapping for about 10 years. When the price started dropping Groenwolds came into the picture due to the changing price that would be lower at a later selling or auction date. Both got our fur when my son started trapping but Groenwolds ended up with the most because of the changing market.

In the very beginning I never skinned a beaver because of price being so low. Counties paid me for getting rid of beaver. Otters went to a dealer in Wrightsville Ga. I met Virgil and Greg Schroder at a meeting in Wisconsin while I was working cattle. They showed me I was losing money in my market. That winter the buyer, I was selling to, thought he owned me and really showed himself. I never sold to him again.

The only reason I sold so many beaver hides was my son. The prices were good when he was in school. He trapped and skinned his way through college literally. He skinned them faster than any I ever met.

I believe with a Trump Presidency the market could return to one that might favor dealing with an auction house.

Guy Groenwald was a very good encouraging person for my son at that time. I have always been grateful.
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I wasn,t trying to take away from the thread. Many don,t understand how markets and individuals in those markets can make a difference.

jim I am also interested in the butera modification.

Aix has it right. You need a four way trigger to do it, which has an oval, elongated top to bottom opening. The slop makes it work. You can make it quick fire in all directions by adjusting. BMI made one like that from the beginning which could be adjusted. Belisle first came out with a trigger that had a tight round hole around the bar, which proved to be completely unsatisfactory, actually hung up without firing at times. They fought it at first then finally changed to a similar trigger to BMI. For a replacement that can be adjusted Duke actually has a good trigger. Usually a light tap or two in a vice with a hammer will do. If you go over a squeeze back or two with a vice grip a fraction will correct. Tighten the vice grip till it snugs, take it off, tighten a hair more then squeeze. Repeat if necessary. If you hold the trap in your hand as you test fire, around the jaws, you will see where you are at, 2 inches, 1.5, 1 inch of travel etc. You can get it precise if you want to fool with them. Makes it deadly on 'rats and otter. You want a fast slippery trap. We left our conibears rusty years ago then got into dipping or painting which helped a lot. I think I settled on about 1.5 inches of travel, maybe 1 inch minimum. Don't want to make them too touchy. I had one fire once as I walked away, probably .5 inches of travel.

thank you!!

Ttt

I dont catch a ton of otters, but if Im targeting them specifically in the water, the 280 Belisle and Bridger is what I reach for. Cant use anything larger than 220 on land, (private land) and 150 size on public, so Im limited there. Seems like my catches in the 280 are always behind the ears, more body/hip catches with 330's. Just my experience.

^^^this is what the otters did.

Had it happen many, many times, before I started using Belisles. Have even had it happen a couple times with older Belisle 330s as the center of jaws will bend open slightly. Never under estimate the power of an otter.

One other tip: if you're using bodygrips that allow the spring eyes to go over the corners of the jaws you are using a crappy otter trap. You will eventually regret it one cold morning.

An otter cannot get the leverage he needs to pull his head out of the jaws of most strong 8" bodygrips...not enough working room as he has in a 330.....unless the spring eyes go over the jaw corners allowing more opening of the jaws by the tension being released some. The otter generally cannot escape the trap when this happens but it allows him to live longer and fight harder, ie fur damage/location destruction/ruins location for next otter catch as they are sensitive and spooky to thay kind of commotion.