charlie robbins

You hear so much about the robbins style sets has he ever published any books? All the greats talk about his style along with nelson but . But ive never heard of any writings from either! Or are they just old and very hard to obtain?

Tony the answers are buried in old magazines from like Fur Fish Game, Hunter Trader Trapper, Fur News, Trappers World. Midwest Trapper and other less popular magazines from the early 1900's to the mid 70's. There were many greats like EF Keith, Colvin, Walker, Berimen, Krammer, White and many govt coyote men out west that wrote just one or two articles and then fell off the map. You answers lie in research. A trapper like Roy Kuykedal (spelling) wrote a great book, try to find it. Others like Willey Carrol and Mel Hershberger are easier to find. The early OGorman catalogs gave a list of what he figured were some of the greats but there were many more. The history of our sport/hobby or profession is yours for the taking and sometimes its better to visit a pro and just let him talk about the history as opposed to going on the line and making a flat set. The some of the greats from the fur boom of the 70's like OGorman, Milligan, Weiland and Grawe are still around. Johnny Thorpe has moved on but there are still a few old sages around go find one and listen. I have talked to a lot of trappers that say they wish they had taken lessons from this or that trapper or remember a demo at a convention, it still not to late. Dont be one that wishes he had, be the one that says I did and now I can share and pass on the wisdom.

I'm one of those^^^^^.I couldn't tell you how many years I said to myself "this is the year I take instruction from Thorpe".And never did.

Right there with you Buck. I wish I would have pulled the trigger and taken instructions from Thorpe.

Before Del Kramer passed I had the privilege of visiting with for hour so a few times. Information passed along was invaluable.
There is a couple others spread out .
Pudd Long is one that passed that would have been interesting

Wish I had the resources to fill my bucket list of older trappers id like to hangout with for the day! Lol even if I had to do there honey dos for a day the passing info could be invaluable! I own a few of willy carrols books. No offense but they seam kind of out there. And I bought a papper back pamphlet with mels lure recipes. Even own a few grawes books. Like to add some robbins literature in my library

As a starting point, I would attend the conventions, there will always be an old sage there, 2) Get an address and write a letter. The older guys might not be tech savy but the know how to read a letter and get there mail. I have a friend that has a hand written letter from Craig O.: it means a lot. You might not be able to the far distant place but you can always write a letter and say thanks for the memories and dreams. There are alot of great trappers out there right now that 20 years from now people will say I wish I had .......take some time and get to know your mentors, keep our hobby and sport alive. Its summer, no excuses.

I took lessons from Dr. Bob. Time and money well spent.

Beav; I think people should be taking lessons from you and you should consider making your self available, reviewing your posts, you are one of the sharpest to come down the creek in along time. Just cause you do not sell lure does not mean you are not a force to dealt with, I took lessons from John Magel and he never sold lure. Think about it.

if I had the resources id lve to take lessons from a few of the greats 3 cross my mind often!

Dr.Bob and John Magel are icons in this game too.Never real prolific in writing of their experiences but you could read the genius in their writings.Very innovative men.

I took O'Gorman's lessons. It was a blast. I'll never forget it.

Bill Nelson wrote some articles in Fur Fish and Game. He wrote a couple books too. Both of them show up on ebay regularly

"All the greats talk about his style" name two?

For a while, whenever I heard that name I thought for some reason they were mispronouncing Charlie Dobbins' name...

I couldn't tell you 2 because I don't have a great memory but O'Gorman speaks highly of him,that says a lot.

BUCK,
Bill Nelson style was different than the eastern mentality at the time. Read what Craig says about him and the Nelson books, for example bigger patterns, longer chains, more swivels, more bait, more calls, these are all western concepts fro coyote and fox, eastern ( Butcher, Dailey, Rickard, Randall) was short chain (fox as there were not that many coyotes in the east), small pattern, little bit of bait, little bit of lure and urine. Each had its place in it environment. OGorman still works on the principles of Nelson, Lennon and Ehn and western govt trappers that came before him. Same with beaver, eastern trapping was number 4 jumps, western ADC beaver was a 114 or 4 41/2 newhouse. You have to do the research to see these differences, if you cannot see the style difference between the writtings then you are destined to continue as you are. You see both styles all over this web site, which create debate.

Bill Randal and Rickard used a number 2 Blake short chained to a brick. That was NYS back in 1920- 1930's.

Western (Griggs and Nelson) preached deep pocket sets, Eastern preached blind sets, mink could not be caught on bait.

I am a Magel student from the mid 80's, his style was 220's for rats, 220 for coon in trails, mouse nest for dirt holes, no bait or lure. He was ahead of his time on water trapping, now everyone uses 160's and 220's.

19 years in AZ/NM shifted me to mostly flat sets and call lures, thats OGorman and Nelson. No dirtholes as to many rocks.

Hope ur chains are tight an go trapping.

Charlie Robbins, might ave been the innovator behind the step down dirt hole, my memory says he was referenced by Ogorman a long time ago in his catalogs which have tons of information in them. Please see the link below showing a trapper talking about the Charlie Robbins "style' of dirthole. Remember in trapping innovation is different than origination. History always repeats itself even in trapping.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W6VyMjlvnw

ed Schneider clint locklear and im sure theirs more

In Ogormans challenging coyotes video he refers to robbins and nelson numerous times. Several videos have demonstrated the robbins style d-hole/modified trench set. Even og used it but in a totally different fashion than others! His required less labor but heavier blocking.My thoughts was id like to understand charlies think as to why! Common scense tells me why . But it looks nothing like anything ive ever seen in nature. Craig say that what a stash from a yote resembles. At least his version any how his version was more of a trench /trash mound combo. Most of the other reproductions have a hole in the end of the trench. This is what prompts my questions, as to which is superior! Both work and very well! One of my go to sets even in miserys hard arse clay !

My memory say that Charlie was from Iowa (from reading never met the man), he had cattle issues and needed a set that the cattle would step over or avoid. To me the set looks like a wood chuck hole which was a set that some WNY trappers liked as it provided a place to hide the fox, natural hole for the bait, offered drainage and high visibility along with live stock stayed off them: a natural spot that a fox or coyote would look for food. I do not believe any one set is superior as all animals are different, everything evolves.

I like the step down dirt hole for remakes when your natural blocking is destroyed. Great set for controlling were a coyote steps.

??????? I must have missed something

I wonder if Craig O'Gorman knew him? I think he did but I'm not sure. I like the set but can't always get '' white man '' dirt to do it in.

I have both Nelson books and they are pretty good. I have O'Gorman's books and videos, and Roy Kuykedall's book. They are all full of good information. I saw some examples of Robbin's dirtholes and few others over the years. Dick Atkins makes a good one too. He said his boss at the time came out with a drawing of the set he wanted him to use. It's in Dick's fox book. Dick said he used it and did real well trapping fox for bounty. Craig also put a drawing of it giving Dick Atkins credit for it in one of his update to Hoofbeats of a Wolfer.

There are a lot of good sets out there. Ed Schneider of Kansas Trapline Products does a real good job on is dirt hole sets. Ed has some videos on you tube showing how he does it.

Here's another idea for you. I have a mole run across one of the lanes on my place. The moles always dig it in the same spot across the lane. One day while turkey hunting I saw this spot where a fox dug the mole hole out. I don't know if he got the mole but he sure made a dandy dirthole set. All you would need to do is add the trap- one at the top hole and one at the bottom hole if you like.




The best teachers for have been these guys, The bottom dirthole looks more like a coyote pup digging to me but the tracks were from a big red fox. Look where he put his feet. he had his back feet pretty far back from the hole. I bet the dirt was flying. After seeing this I messed around with it and caught coyotes with it. Most of them work well. Your going to get a coyote if he steps around enough at the set even if your trap is in a ''bad'' spot. Those little twerps are always digging up my hay field.

I like reading about those government trappers.

Major Bodicker is good too.

Some of these guys might not be around too long- you might want to go meat them and spend a little time with some of them. They like to talk trapping too- Larry

Great post Larry, a wealth of knowlege and wisdom, thanks for all the research. We need to keep the history alive. Again thank you.

O’Gorman would be awesome to tag along with. I’d like to go up there and take instructions from him some day. Hoofbeats was a game changer for me. Ed Schneider is also another trapper I think a guy could gain some knowledge from. Both seem like very straight forward no BS guys.

Ed spent two days on my line with me. The best money I’ve spent on trapping. He referenced O’gorman a number of times.

Ed's an O'Gorman Student too. You should call Nancy and set something up. He only takes a limited number of people per summer and it fills up fast. Craig's a good guy. People say he brags and acts like a know it all. I liken Craig to the guy who shows up on the ski slope in ripped up carhart bibs - old skis and maybe a pole with some duct tape wrapped around it. You look at him and think either this guys is a genius or I gotta see this guy kill himself and then you find out he has all the moves to back it up. Lot of people on here are students of his.

If you want to go - you need to get on the list now. You can ask him all about any of those old timers. He has a very extensive library and will share it as he sees it. If you have some of his videos or books the instruction isn't much of a stretch but it is learning it from the real thing and it's nice to be able to ask questions - just like going with any other trappers. The country is a tough country. Those guys like Pud Long and George Good, Vern Dorn had it made in my opinion but it is a tough lonely country not made for everyone. If you get a flat you better have two spares in your truck. Craig said one guy out there asked his buddy how to get a road up to the top of a butte and his buddy said to tell O'Gorman there's a coyote up there. I think he probably drives more miles off road than on.

So did Mr. Robbins ever write a book or write an articles? I would like to know too.

I have a lot of letters from E.F. Keith, when I was young. He wrote me quite often. 'Wiley' Carroll, same thing. I learned a lot from both.
Mel Hershberger and I had many conversations on trapping. He was a great friend of J.C. Conner, When he died, I bought almost all his lures from his son LaVern.
Roy Kuykendal , who was a government trapper in California taught me quite a bit about flat sets. I spent time out in California . I have his book, signed, same with Bud Hall of Iowa.
I stayed up at Ardell Grawe's place in the early 80's. I met some interesting characters while there.
Garold Weiland, who wrote the best $5 books on trapping, IMO, used to be on T-Man. I heard he passed away.

LT GREY, wow have you been busy, I think EF Keth never got the credit on fox trapping that he deserves, he wrote some great articles in the 20's and 30's, he was quite a photographer as it was not cheap to take and develop pictures back then, back then very few articles had great pictures, he had great pictures of fox sets and mink sets on his line. You have some great wisdom in taking the time to write a letter and capturing the memories. I picked up some of Mels lures at an ATA when I first moved out there, great stuff. G. W. books were great also, I would take some time and travel the AZ/.NM border compairing his photos to the terrain, found a couple of spots he may have been in,same with Mel. Kinda hard to hide a mountain range or a cat factory. Ranchers know who has been around. Thanks for the info.