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Bait testing studies

Posted By: Teacher

Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 03:57 PM

Back in the 1980s, there was one or more studies about which lures were best at holding the attention of canines and cats. As I recall, a couple of Russ Carman’s lures did very well. If memory serves, these were either university studies or studies done by federal wildlife control agencies.

Anyway, to the best of the collective knowledge by Tman members, has there been any studies done to determine which or who’s baits are the best for cats and canines?

The reason I ask is because I’m getting tired of the reading all the claims of “best in the trapping industry” and “nation’s number 1 seller” and “best north south East and west”. I have no doubts that anyone who researches, makes, bottles and distributes a bait probably has pretty good stuff. But, since no one has tested this bait against others, there is no reason to make such claims. In essence, what you’re giving us is “fake news” and unproven “facts”.

Of course a lot of what is used is used incorrectly by trappers. And if the wind isn’t blowing in the right direction, at the right time, the probability of a catch is not going to be high. But, I bet if I look at 50 online and print catalogs of trapping baits, I’ll get a very high percentage of claims about being the “best” at something that has no basis in actual fact. To that end, I can live with “my best seller” claims because the seller has records of that.

Back to my questions. 1. Is anyone reading this familiar with university or state or federal agency research which have tested which commercial baits perform as claimed? and 2. Where can trappers find such studies so we can read for ourselves ?
Posted By: Kirk De

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 04:23 PM

Best thing to do is use a bait that matches your area recommended from trappers you know that are reputable for that area. Try several of each type. Sometimes a lure that works well in one area lacks in other areas. Most federal and state agency's are only as good as their personnel at the time. Very few have the expertise that they try to project. We have some very good trappers that work for the DNR but the heads of the departments my not have the insight to listen to or recognize the best ones for the study.
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 04:38 PM

Thanks Kirk, but that means I’m the tester. Before I go out and buy the “hype”, I’d like to see some unbiased results from independent tests.

Guys around here all use different stuff. And that suggests it all works, which might actually be the case. I’ve always felt a hungry/curious canine that hit an odor that piqued its hunger or curiosity would work the set regardless of who made the attractant. Intuitively that makes sense. But the I-don’t-believe-what-I-wrote part of me says I can do better if I know what real research says.

Guess I’m making a mountain out of a mole hill. But I get frustrated with all the hype. It’s all advertising without substance and I’d like to see some substance once in a while.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 04:56 PM

There has been a great series of articles in Trappers World magazine summarizing the government studies. It wasn't a study designed to find the best commercial lures out there but it did compare some commercial formulations out there. I've done a lot of testing using commercial lures and baits and also ones from individuals. I wont share my results on here but will say if you really want to know test on your own (its worth it)and test without a trap so you can actually see the animal's response.
Posted By: son-of-grizz

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 06:10 PM

Originally Posted by Yes sir
There has been a great series of articles in Trappers World magazine summarizing the government studies. It wasn't a study designed to find the best commercial lures out there but it did compare some commercial formulations out there. I've done a lot of testing using commercial lures and baits and also ones from individuals. I wont share my results on here but will say if you really want to know test on your own (its worth it)and test without a trap so you can actually see the animal's response.


Now with doing this study are you doing this the entire year or are you just doing it during certain times? My lovely wife bought me some trail cameras for Christmas and I planned on doing some testing with them. Would you use different lures at the same location or different locations for each lure?
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 06:53 PM

Year around. Sometimes a single lure or bait by itself (usually if I'm trying to formulate something from scratch myself) and sometimes side by side product comparisons.

It took my some playing around to find a camera that wouldn't spook coyotes. But I'm also cheap. Lol

A lot can be learned from sign left at test sets but cameras do have some added benefits.
Posted By: the Blak Spot

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 07:01 PM

If i was gonna run off to a different state to trap here is what I would take:
Baits: Grawes mustang sally/Rk predator/High country control froggy eds(Tom Beaudette)/Junes widowmaker

Lures: carmans canine call, pros choice, megamusk, final touch/ junes fox frenzy/ Lenons weasel/ Masts #'s 2,5,&6 & cat #4/ fox hollow voodoo or gh2/ Grahams tomcat, bonanza mild/ Dobbins backbreaker
(Backbreaker and lenons weasel work well for me at remakes)
So far, beaver liver is working for a natural bait

Fox or cat urine

I've tried all these, not just one season either(bout ten seasons). they work well.
Hope that helps
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 08:40 PM

Blak Spot makes an interesting observation on beaver liver. Almost every car killed deer I’ve seen had the guts eaten out first. While you and I go for the muscles, critters like something that’s internal. In Locklear’s Teachers of the Night-Dirt Hole version, he says they used about a pound of liver (beef?) down the hole. Looks like I might have to start saving beaver livers for canine bait. Ooooo my wife will be so happy to find more packages in the freezer!
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/22/20 11:43 PM

Black spot I am interested in learning why you need so many different scents?
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 12:22 AM

In my opinion there is no practical way to test which scent will catch you the most fur except by trapping with them. Then you have to run a line with one and see what happens. Not throw multiple scents out. Every set same scent or scents. Over a period of time so as to reduce the effects of all the variables. When something is hitting regular, when you get confidence in it, then use it . What i think and especially what that maker says dont mean nothing. Only what you think and the criitters think matters. USDA tests on caged animals are useful but should not be taken as absolutes.
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 12:44 AM

Danny
You don't think an animals reaction at a mock set is an indicator as to the attractiveness of a lure or bait? I agree the ultimate test is on the trapline but from my experience so far the stuff that shines in mock sets seems to be the best with traps set in front of them also. I'm not asking to disagree with but rather hear your thoughts as you have steered me in the right direction before. I'm honestly surprised more people don't do more testing than what appears to be happening. Its sure been a wealth of learning for me, not only about baits and lures but about sets and the animals themselves. The great thing is you can make them right on the edge of the dirt roads, don't need permission, and dont need to check them every day (fact I recommend not checking them every day). A hours drive in the countryside once a week checking and making mock sets will teach one alot if they want to learn.
Posted By: Lazarus

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 12:59 AM

Many of the lure/bait studies were done at government research centers with captive coyotes. They react different than wild coyotes. For that matter, different times of year, coyotes react differently to different attractants. I've got hundreds of hours of trail camera video with cats and coyotes and I've come up with my own conclusions, but they are just my own observations. They aren't scientific.

There isn't one "best" lure or bait out there . . . unless it happens to be the one the animal likes at the time. I would suggest this to you -- simple is better. If you are talking coyote BAIT, then slightly tainted venison is king, followed by slightly tainted horse. Cat and beaver work as well, but in my observation, venison and horse are edible, they are natural (as opposed to a perfumed bait with lots of exotic ingredients), and coyotes want to eat them. I realize in some states these baits are illegal or hard to obtain -- that wasn't your question. Your question was what has the most attraction.

For cats, its a different game. Lots of variation between the sexes and a greater difference of response depending on the time of year. Females and younger cats seem to be more interested in food. Big toms seem to prefer something out of the ordinary. All cats love beaver smells. Period. As breeding season approaches, they are more interested in glands and urine. Lure makers often enhance all these odors with carrying agents like skunk, mint and other odors that reach out and carry the more mild odors. Cats also like exotic stuff, or at least they are curious about it. Certain odors trigger euphoric reactions in cats so cats show great interest in them (i.e. silver vine, catnip, etc.).

I suggest you try some basic odors either on your trapline or in the off season with some trail cameras and use what you observe works best for you in your area.
Posted By: Posco

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 01:01 AM

I'd trust the opinion of trappers here before I would a government study. No doubt in my mind that some of the best trappers in the world are right here.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 01:06 AM

Here is my bait.

[Linked Image]

Here is my study

[Linked Image]
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 03:20 AM

Test holes work.

Russ Carmen wrote that often the first lure that catches a target species becomes that trappers favorite.
Posted By: MNCedar

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 04:22 AM

Slim Pedersen has done some excellent writing on both the lure industry and some of the fallacies involved with it. I always enjoy reading his words.
Posted By: jeff karsten

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 04:27 AM

Major Boddicker did a lot of testing some all over the world and hAS several books out the books I have all have excerpts in them from other studies with a glossary of titles in the back
Another good one is Evaluation of Baits and Lures by Charles Dobbins Specific names are not mentioned but its a in depth look at lure testing The effort he puts in will tire you out just by reading it
And as Danny said put out a lure on a weed and check the responses
Posted By: the Blak Spot

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 12:35 PM

Originally Posted by danny clifton
Black spot I am interested in learning why you need so many different scents?

I rotate every year, so the ones i educate will get something different the next season.
Posted By: Mac

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/23/20 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Lazarus
Many of the lure/bait studies were done at government research centers with captive coyotes. They react different than wild coyotes. For that matter, different times of year, coyotes react differently to different attractants. I've got hundreds of hours of trail camera video with cats and coyotes and I've come up with my own conclusions, but they are just my own observations. They aren't scientific.

There isn't one "best" lure or bait out there . . . unless it happens to be the one the animal likes at the time. I would suggest this to you -- simple is better. If you are talking coyote BAIT, then slightly tainted venison is king, followed by slightly tainted horse. Cat and beaver work as well, but in my observation, venison and horse are edible, they are natural (as opposed to a perfumed bait with lots of exotic ingredients), and coyotes want to eat them. I realize in some states these baits are illegal or hard to obtain -- that wasn't your question. Your question was what has the most attraction.

For cats, its a different game. Lots of variation between the sexes and a greater difference of response depending on the time of year. Females and younger cats seem to be more interested in food. Big toms seem to prefer something out of the ordinary. All cats love beaver smells. Period. As breeding season approaches, they are more interested in glands and urine. Lure makers often enhance all these odors with carrying agents like skunk, mint and other odors that reach out and carry the more mild odors. Cats also like exotic stuff, or at least they are curious about it. Certain odors trigger euphoric reactions in cats so cats show great interest in them (i.e. silver vine, catnip, etc.).

I suggest you try some basic odors either on your trapline or in the off season with some trail cameras and use what you observe works best for you in your area.




Reread this. Has taken me a lifetime (well almost) to figure out what he is talking about on canines.
Bobcats? I am just starting to try and really get a handle on them and I know darn well I don't have another life time waiting in the wings.

And that is why forums like this one offer so much help.
Thanks Lazarus for sharing/

Mac
Posted By: Snowpa

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 11:01 AM

Lots of good lure out there but IMO a lure can only be as good as the Trapper
Posted By: Mac

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
Here is my bait.

[Linked Image]

Here is my study

[Linked Image]


Now there you go. Natural and effective
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 06:07 PM

This thread is evidence why one should test for themselves
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 08:35 PM

I just wish there was less hype and more basic truth out there. Less “fake news” and more fact—. Testing by excellent trappers or overseen by excellent trappers, not by people who are selling lures or baits
Posted By: Wanna Be

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 09:09 PM

Just a newbies perspective, but the issue I see with baits are they work for whoever develops them at their particular locations they trap. I’ve had a little luck with most of the commercial baits I’ve bought from all over the country. Some work better than others, those are the ones I pay attention to.

The other main issue is coyotes seem to get used to commercial baits. So what worked last year may not work this year.

I’m looking at and experimenting with natural baits this year. Some of it sucks for freezer space but the other that’s producing is easily bought and readily available. But then again, what works down here may be totally useless in other climates/environments.

I’m still learning, but baits seem less important than urine. A good quality urine and leftover dove/quail parts has produced quite well for cats, fox, coyotes down here this year. And this is just down basic dirt holes. But I have found what I believe is some good quality urine.

For Pipes, Cavens and Reusaats baits are producing.

I know there’s times they say that only gland lures will work, but even then a coyote has to eat. He may not stop when he first encounters the set, but trail cam photos show they remember or pay attention.
Bypass a set one day and come straight to it 3 days later. Not stop and check it out, come straight to it.

Like I said, I’m still new to this, but I got tired of trying to find the “magical” commercial bait that pulls them in from miles around, so after watching dogs retrieve dove/quail/waterfowl that sometimes seemed impossible to find, I realized that just might work for coyotes/fox/cats...and it does. May not work for you, but doing pretty good for a cheap natural bait.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 10:42 PM

From my perspective bait works best in winter when animals are hungry and they need more calories to keep their body temps up.
Commercial lure has its place,I use it for trapping beaver early.Bait also works for beaver especially under ice.
Urine for canines is in my opinion very similar to castor for beaver.It will get them to go where you want them.It is a"calling card"or territorial marker like castor is for beaver.
Small spoonfuls of bait doesn't have much calling power like a big bait does in winter,in this case commercial lure is the call and the little bit of bait in the hole gets the animal into the trap.
Same for fisher or marten.I don't use scent lure for marten,I use a large bait 20 feet or so from the sets(I stockpile beaver carcasses from the fall for this).This large bait is my lure and a smaller chunk in the box to get the animal into the trap.Using a large bait as lure keeps the animals in the vicinity of your sets longer,and also keeps animals close and they will return until the bait is consumed or gone giving you lots of opportunity to connect with multiple animals.A large bait like a beaver carcass in winter will be consumed in a couple of days if on the ground or may also be dragged away which you don't want.Lots of birds and animals will visit,this being a great call in itself.In order to make the bait last longer you need to either cover it or suspend it,or both.Suspended or covered it can last for 3 weeks or more.But it has to be able to be somewhat acessable for the animals to feed on,so don't hang it too high.In the north country a beaver carcass is often wired to a tree trunk and a cubby built around it.Normally sets made at the large bait will catch non targets so snares or blind sets are made in trails away from the large bait and no sets are made at the large bait.
Some trappers claim to have good luck with commercial lure to call marten and a small chunk of bait does the rest.
A large bait is not the same as a jackpot where a couple hundred pounds of bait is used.
These methods are for northern areas I believe you would need some sort of dried large bait for it to work in warmer climates.
Maybe flatten a few gutted beaver carcasses and dry them like jerky.
Posted By: Wanna Be

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/25/20 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Boco
From my perspective bait works best in winter when animals are hungry and they need more calories to keep their body temps up.
Commercial lure has its place,I use it for trapping beaver early.Bait also works for beaver especially under ice.
Urine for canines is in my opinion very similar to castor for beaver.It will get them to go where you want them.It is a"calling card"or territorial marker like castor is for beaver.
Small spoonfuls of bait doesn't have much calling power like a big bait does in winter,in this case commercial lure is the call and the little bit of bait in the hole gets the animal into the trap.
Same for fisher or marten.I don't use scent lure for marten,I use a large bait 20 feet or so from the sets(I stockpile beaver carcasses from the fall for this).This large bait is my lure and a smaller chunk in the box to get the animal into the trap.Using a large bait as lure keeps the animals in the vicinity of your sets longer,and also keeps animals close and they will return until the bait is consumed or gone giving you lots of opportunity to connect with multiple animals.A large bait like a beaver carcass in winter will be consumed in a couple of days if on the ground or may also be dragged away which you don't want.Lots of birds and animals will visit,this being a great call in itself.In order to make the bait last longer you need to either cover it or suspend it,or both.Suspended or covered it can last for 3 weeks or more.But it has to be able to be somewhat acessable for the animals to feed on,so don't hang it too high.In the north country a beaver carcass is often wired to a tree trunk and a cubby built around it.Normally sets made at the large bait will catch non targets so snares or blind sets are made in trails away from the large bait and no sets are made at the large bait.
Some trappers claim to have good luck with commercial lure to call marten and a small chunk of bait does the rest.
A large bait is not the same as a jackpot where a couple hundred pounds of bait is used.
These methods are for northern areas I believe you would need some sort of dried large bait for it to work in warmer climates.
Maybe flatten a few gutted beaver carcasses and dry them like jerky.


I could be wrong, but I don’t think bait piles could be used down here unless kept covered during the day and covering removed at night. We have way too many buzzards. I even have to be careful about covering blood left behind from dispatches. Buzzards will be all over a blood pile near a set. Sometimes it’s hard to cover it all when remaking a set in the dark, lol. Blood doesn’t seem to bother other critters though.
Hopefully some Southern trappers will offer their input or experience. It’s something I’ve always wanted to try, but seems I’d be releasing more unwanted catches and remaking sets every evening.
Posted By: Boco

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 12:19 AM

Read it again-we have buzzards here too -ravens.Why you have to suspend and cover the bait.And don't set the big bait.-trails or small baited sets 20 feet or so from the attractor.
But like I said you would have to dry it to jerky for warm weather.
But if your animals aren't hungry there then blind setting would be more productive.
Posted By: Wanna Be

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 12:54 AM

Gotcha...didn’t read it close enough. Thanks
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 03:23 AM

I’m not looking for the perfect bait. It probably doesn’t exist. I’m just looking for honesty in advertising.

Why doesn’t something that worked last year, work this year? Off-gassing of the ingredients may be one reason. The “ingredients” in the form of contaminants we introduced every time we put a stick in it, might be another. Maybe it’s a slight variation in the compounding of the lure or bait by the manufacturer. Maybe it’s what your competition is using is turning them on and yours is turning them off.

Testing spring, summer, fall and winter might require you to buy 1/2-1 gallon of one bait. This is so you’d have enough to carry you through a trapping season. If I’m going to do meaningful tests, it means having enough quantity and that means spending hundreds of dollars to see what doesn’t work as well as what does for 3 or 4 baits a year.

You see where this is going. It would be nice if there was honesty instead of hype in our market place. That manufacturers would have done some testing rather than having us, their customers, do the testing they should have done.
Posted By: MNCedar

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by Wanna Be

The other main issue is coyotes seem to get used to commercial baits. So what worked last year may not work this year.


Like I said, I’m still new to this, but I got tired of trying to find the “magical” commercial bait that pulls them in from miles around


Are you saying that a coyote could somehow recognize a smell a year later and refuse a set as a result? If so then I respectfully, but very strongly, disagree.

I'm no expert and I'm not trying to sound like one. Just something to think about...make a set that is so on location and has enough eye appeal or attractor that the smell just finishes the deal. That has helped me.

Originally Posted by Teacher

It would be nice if there was honesty instead of hype in our market place.


I think it is human nature in a consumer-based society that when people get frustrated, they tend to throw the checkbook at the problem. A lack of understanding regarding location or mechanics is easily compensated for by buying "better" lure or "switching" baits. Surely, says the frustrated trapper, that coyote didn't commit because it "didn't like the bait" and had nothing to do with the fact that the set was over-guided and completely stupid looking. It is far harder for a person to admit that the problem is perhaps themselves, and this is a realization that is not easily remedied. (I know from experience!) On that note, I think the contaminated trap/foreign smelling dirt/"they're just not hungry" clauses are far overused as well. There again, it is easier to blame and attempt to fix a granule of lure on a trap jaw than it is for the trapper to admit that it took him 25 minutes to make one horrible set. I'd almost bet that most of the posts on here about problematic coyote trapping can be blamed on poor location, poor set construction, or spending too much time at an area. When those three things are on point, I don't think it matters one bit what scent is by the trap.

A lot of the no name, gimmicky lure sellers out there are prime examples of taking advantage of this. That is the hype you're referring too.

I'm not referring to the names that have been in the industry forever, those guys/families have done more for trapping and trappers than they will ever be properly thanked for. Those lure-makers, generally speaking, make products that do produce year in and year out. I am eternally grateful to them.The same cannot be said for the names that show up for a couple years and then disappear again.

I'm not some pro, but I like to rant. Especially about trapping stuff!




Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 07:30 AM

MnCedar, you make an interesting point about an animal not committing. At last year’s Newt Sterling, Ron Jones and Morgan Bennett snaring school one guy brought up about coyotes not willing to commit. This guy has pretty good catches year in and year out. He said a bait was a failure if coyotes wouldn’t commit by stepping into the pattern.

Newt and company emphasized that animals will tell you where they can be caught. In this case, the trapper said yotes would stand back about 16 inches. Jones said the bait wasn’t a failure and steered us to understand those coyotes were telling him to move his traps back to 16-inches instead of 9-inches from hole to pan. Like the trapper who was discussing the bait failure, I initially felt it was a failure too. But listening and finally understanding the coyotes consistently hung up at about 16-inches was telling the trapper to move his trap back and he’d probably catch them. It wasn’t a bad bait at all.

This was an interesting lesson and one I observed this last fall with pipe dream sets. Some of my traps were fairly close to the pipe. I could actually see tracks in the mud where coyotes were stepping another 2 or 3 inches back from the trap. They were showing me where they could be caught. The next sets were a couple inches further away and it worked much better. Close in csught red fox and very large coon. Further out took coyotes.

I have some baits and lures I’ve found to be very attractive to big coon, fox and coyotes. One in the same, actually. Since these work, I’ll stick with them until I find they don’t work as well as I want.
Posted By: Wanna Be

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by MNCedar
Originally Posted by Wanna Be

The other main issue is coyotes seem to get used to commercial baits. So what worked last year may not work this year.


Like I said, I’m still new to this, but I got tired of trying to find the “magical” commercial bait that pulls them in from miles around


Are you saying that a coyote could somehow recognize a smell a year later and refuse a set as a result? If so then I respectfully, but very strongly, disagree.

I'm no expert and I'm not trying to sound like one. Just something to think about...make a set that is so on location and has enough eye appeal or attractor that the smell just finishes the deal. That has helped me.

Originally Posted by Teacher

It would be nice if there was honesty instead of hype in our market place.


I think it is human nature in a consumer-based society that when people get frustrated, they tend to throw the checkbook at the problem. A lack of understanding regarding location or mechanics is easily compensated for by buying "better" lure or "switching" baits. Surely, says the frustrated trapper, that coyote didn't commit because it "didn't like the bait" and had nothing to do with the fact that the set was over-guided and completely stupid looking. It is far harder for a person to admit that the problem is perhaps themselves, and this is a realization that is not easily remedied. (I know from experience!) On that note, I think the contaminated trap/foreign smelling dirt/"they're just not hungry" clauses are far overused as well. There again, it is easier to blame and attempt to fix a granule of lure on a trap jaw than it is for the trapper to admit that it took him 25 minutes to make one horrible set. I'd almost bet that most of the posts on here about problematic coyote trapping can be blamed on poor location, poor set construction, or spending too much time at an area. When those three things are on point, I don't think it matters one bit what scent is by the trap.

A lot of the no name, gimmicky lure sellers out there are prime examples of taking advantage of this. That is the hype you're referring too.

I'm not referring to the names that have been in the industry forever, those guys/families have done more for trapping and trappers than they will ever be properly thanked for. Those lure-makers, generally speaking, make products that do produce year in and year out. I am eternally grateful to them.The same cannot be said for the names that show up for a couple years and then disappear again.

I'm not some pro, but I like to rant. Especially about trapping stuff!






So you use the same bait year after year on the same property and catch critters? If so, please tell me what bait that is, I’ll buy it and try it.
For me what worked one year didn’t work the next. I’m using more natural baits this year and catching more critters than any year prior. A good quality urine seems to help the most.
Posted By: MNCedar

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 03:55 PM

Absolutely I do.

It's not some magic thing either. Once you find a couple scents that work, why move away from them?






Posted By: MNCedar

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by Teacher
MnCedar, you make an interesting point about an animal not committing. At last year’s Newt Sterling, Ron Jones and Morgan Bennett snaring school one guy brought up about coyotes not willing to commit. This guy has pretty good catches year in and year out. He said a bait was a failure if coyotes wouldn’t commit by stepping into the pattern.

Newt and company emphasized that animals will tell you where they can be caught. In this case, the trapper said yotes would stand back about 16 inches. Jones said the bait wasn’t a failure and steered us to understand those coyotes were telling him to move his traps back to 16-inches instead of 9-inches from hole to pan. Like the trapper who was discussing the bait failure, I initially felt it was a failure too. But listening and finally understanding the coyotes consistently hung up at about 16-inches was telling the trapper to move his trap back and he’d probably catch them. It wasn’t a bad bait at all.

This was an interesting lesson and one I observed this last fall with pipe dream sets. Some of my traps were fairly close to the pipe. I could actually see tracks in the mud where coyotes were stepping another 2 or 3 inches back from the trap. They were showing me where they could be caught. The next sets were a couple inches further away and it worked much better. Close in csught red fox and very large coon. Further out took coyotes.

I have some baits and lures I’ve found to be very attractive to big coon, fox and coyotes. One in the same, actually. Since these work, I’ll stick with them until I find they don’t work as well as I want.


I mentioned this earlier, but have you read Slim's Problem and Solutions books? One in particular, maybe the second one, he really makes some great observations on lure making and marketing.
Posted By: Wanna Be

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by MNCedar
Absolutely I do.







What’s your bait of choice?
Posted By: AJE

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 04:43 PM

I know an expert instructor who annually nabs hi number yotes. He only uses 1 bait. Powder River.
Posted By: WadeRyan

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 05:22 PM

I think too much emphasis is placed on the best lure or bait. People forget the simplicity of catching the animals. I'm glad to see you bring up the "claims," by certain untouchables. It is what it is but their bait/lure is no better than the next guys. I think most commercial baits out there will catch animals and I don't really see that much of a difference with any out producing others. I have played over the years with animals and their responses to lures/baits. It definitely is eye opening I never did it personally to see if one worked better than another more so to watch them work. I usually rotate baits every year just to say I did it. I can't say I've found one that the animals liked more than the other. I suspect, although I am not a professional coyote trapper catching the last coyote after eight guys prior having been there like some experts, when trappers have less luck using a certain scent/bait over another the real issue is the coyote they hoped to catch simply was not there.

Commercial baits are easy for me because I am busy and don't have a lot of time to prepare things myself. Buy a gallon, throw it down a hole with some quality urine and call it a day. I do find myself moving towards natural baits every year. Look at the guy that's going to come real close to 1000 coyotes this fur season. He still appears to be using muskrat quarters and urine...No one told the last couple hundred coyotes he's caught that it's breeding season and he should be throwing down gland lure and urine. I don't know how muskrats would do here...we have very few of them but I suspect they'd catch like anything else.

I have ran straight mice which really I haven't found anything here that won't eat it. No taint just straight preserved. We have an abundance of rabbits here. One of these days I'm going to go out and get enough to make a gallon of bait...it is a staple of our predator base here. You see them exploded all over the country side...yet I've never ran them for bait. Deer meat is another bait that would be very natural to our coyotes that I just have not messed with. Straight bacon grease is a killer here. Literally don't need anything else with it...coyotes get really used to eating pigs off dead piles here.....I add glycerine to keep it from forming into a straight lard. I guess the point is I think people over think bait and lure. Unless they're selling it of course. Which I understand.
Posted By: MNCedar

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 05:25 PM

Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Originally Posted by MNCedar
Absolutely I do.







What’s your bait of choice?


Yeah right.

This entire thread is about the nuances of scent testing.

But okay, I'll play. My bait of choice is location. My second choice would be fresh dirt. Add an industry proven bait (any of the ones that have been around for longer than I have been alive) and a trapper would be hard pressed to not be successful.

The number one thing I learned on this site over a decade ago is the importance of streamlining and having a system. Ill be eternally grateful for that!
Posted By: Wanna Be

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 05:37 PM

Man I wasn’t trying to be smart. You called me out on what I posted that worked or didn’t work for me. You stated your “bait” works every year at the same property. I just asked what it was, lol.
I might not be as experienced as you (hence the reason for the question) then you come back with location. Pretty sure we all know that location is key, but it isn’t a bait. Pics show I’m on location, it’s when they bypass a set that is the issue. Just thought you’d share your knowledge or success after saying my observations were false.
Posted By: MNCedar

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/26/20 07:49 PM

I agree with everything WadeRyan said above. There are two or three baits I really like and I buy from guys who have spent a lifetime making it.

These types of posts are my favorite because they are pretty educational. .

I think its important to note in this discussion that commercial batches can change slightly from year to year. This change can be discernable even to the human nose. In my opinion, the lure variable has the ability to become far more problematic because there infinite varieties. I don't use lure for canines.

Also relevant is that while the south might deal with "properties," in the Midwest I think guys are looking more at areas of a county regarding populations. Trying to trap the same couple hundred acres for months straight probably will lead to frustration. I said I respectfully disagree that so many animals are recalling a particular scent twelve months later that they avoid the set. This is just not practical, at least here. Yes, one will just walk right by a set once in a while, but it shouldn't be an epidemic. That leads me to think that something else is to blame if that many animals are passing up sets.

I said location because, in my opinion, that is far more important that the product used at the set. I was making a theatrical point!

I'm not going to name a brand on a public forum. This is out of fairness to the industry names that do so much for a tradition that is waning. I did say pick one of the names that has been around for decades and go.

Happy Trapping
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 01/31/20 07:58 PM

I like where this thread has gone. The private and “strictly trapping” opinions have affirmed my suspicions all along. Location is king; if you’ve found a bait that works for you, use it; and the best testing to be done is by the individual who wants to try it.

If trapping was like race car driving, we’d see actual comparative data and it would be complete with winners, almost winners and crash and burn examples. In trapping, winners change. Almost winners get better. Crash and burns either get out of the market or get reformulated. In the end, it’s the customer base which decides who stays in the race and who gets out.

Thanks everyone.
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/19/20 03:17 PM

Ttt
Posted By: Archeryguy

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/20/20 11:30 AM

[/quote]

So you use the same bait year after year on the same property and catch critters? If so, please tell me what bait that is, I’ll buy it and try it.
For me what worked one year didn’t work the next. I’m using more natural baits this year and catching more critters than any year prior. A good quality urine seems to help the most. [/quote]

I've tried numerous commercial baits with so, so success. Now I just use deer liver or deer meat. Sometimes mixed with deer hair or the deer hair around the tarsel gland. It just plain works for me. Deer gut piles around here are hit immediately so there is nothing more natural to coyotes than deer and deer liver. The one local bait that just seems to be ignored is beaver meat. Even carcasses are left untouched until hunger drives the coyotes to eat them.
Posted By: Wife

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/20/20 02:32 PM

If a person is really doing research on this subject, they would have several game cams set over several different baits at different times of the year and compare it with the set ups from similar baits set from people in Canada (the north) and Georgia (the south) and Nevada (the west) and Pennsylvania (the east). A little too simplistic but you can catch my drift here. I don't start on coyotes here in Nebraska until i am done with coon and rats, which is usually the 1st or second week in Dec. By then all the plums/wild fruits and grasshoppers are gone so that summer bait is not as attractive in my observations (everything eats grasshoppers here). I check and have checked a lot of dung in my day (probably above my skill level LOL). Likewise fish is not present in the stomach/dung analysis I have done. Mice hair is present in their gut about any time of year here and pheasant bones show up after heavy winter snow cover but not during the summer/good weather months. Deer hair is there (in the coyote dung) heavy during gun season and seems to be slightly present all year which leads me to believe that a coyote likes the taste whenever he can get it (fresh or not so fresh). A little history here,,,,,, one of the farms I trap on is a notorious highway deer crossing and I can continue to catch coyotes out in the open corn/bean fields adjacent to that farm all season ----- my reasoning is, once hit, the deer struggle to the field where they expire and a constant (somewhat) source is there for the yote. You see the scavengers every month and now and again a coyote dead there on the highway. Its not a travel way like some of you may think, its just crop fields with no cover, next to the highway. In the absence of good data use your own game cam at different times of the year with different local baits and draw your own conclusion. The cams have made LIARS out of all of us and can't believe we (at least I was/am) were so off track in our opinions on bait/attractants............................................ my take....... the mike
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/20/20 07:37 PM

Coyotes eat what is available and just because they are eating something that is readily available doesn't mean it's the most attractive food source to the coyote. If you dont believe me find a fruit tree that is producing and the coyotes are eating or a corn field when coyotes are eating a lot of corn, make two dirt holes couple of feet apart, put the fruit or corn they are eating down one hole and lightly tainted red meat laced with good fish oil down the other and read sign after that.
Posted By: Teacher

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/25/20 12:32 AM

I’ve been using Locklear’s Federales for 3 years. Same gallon broken into pint black plastic jars. I’ve also been using Graham’s M44 lure as a bait—-smeared onto pipe dream pipes. This and a couple of Graham’s Bonanza lures have been consistent producers. Over the years though, I’ve tried a bunch of things and haven’t been pleased. The two listed above are what I’ll use till they stop producing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/25/20 01:04 AM

Many of the outdoor pursuits require experience gathered over a period of time, as part of the equation, prior to someone being really productive at it. Duck hunters need to scout, need to find the sweet blind, use the wind, figure incoming tracts, etc. Deer hunters spend time finding runs, figuring patterns of deer, time of day that's best in their area, etc. Trappers can forget we are no different. The fact that you pour, spoon, drip, plop bait or lure somewhere and expect the animal to do most of the work leads to catches, but not production. I know. I've run instructional venues since 1992. MNCedar, makes a good point about set construction, and then mentions time to do it. Good point. Same everything but one trapper does a set in 2 minute and another trapper does it in 10 and I know where to place my bet. We work diligently with attendees at our trainings to increase speed, increase simplicity of a system, and get an eye (quickly) for location. These are not easily gathered.

And then, some areas of the country have nuances, and since I've trapped in 18 states over the past 45 years, I have lived that dream. Again, most can catch some, but how do you maximize? Asking a trapper in the expense of area in WY what works isn't the same as suburban NY and so on. Farms are farms, yes. But is this farm 3,000 acres and this one 80 acres? It matters.

As far as "hype," I'd say that anyone who's made products for decades, and there are some of us, and has stood the test of "much" time probably has a feel for the market. How much they produce and how much others produce. I know I do. That said, I wish we had more new blood coming in, as we could sure use new lure makers with sand and grit and love of sport!

MJ
Posted By: TONY.F

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/26/20 01:56 AM

Laz bring up that t-mad article and guys really do some studying. Onthe natural scents in it that are so effective ! It will open eyes and greatly reduce the sheer amount of scents you carry! The #1 attractant in it has proven its self continuously any time of year.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Bait testing studies - 02/26/20 03:03 AM

In almost 3 decades of government research in various regions, beaver castor was the top attractant most often.
I use a llllooooottttttt of it for that reason.
Posted By: Comanche trapper

Re: Bait testing studies - 11/16/20 12:48 AM

I've had no luck here in Oklahoma with any lures at all is there any suggestions?
Posted By: Comanche trapper

Re: Bait testing studies - 11/16/20 12:50 AM

I'm in Eastern Oklahoma. I have purchased your Fox frenzy lure and I've had no luck with it or any other lures. Do you have any suggestions for me?
Posted By: trappergbus

Re: Bait testing studies - 11/16/20 12:07 PM

Any attractant is only as good as the location and how natural its offered! I've tested many lures from lure manufactures in my 55 years of trappin. Trust me there is some that are better than others. The best way to test is on the working trapline with a trap buried in front of it on free ranging wild animals. I also believe as Charlie Dobbins pointed out years ago our chemical make up has a lot to do with why one works for me and not for you. I trap coyotes in the same region every season, what was hot last year sometimes is dead the next. But some attractants are killers every season, those are the ones I cherish. No such thing as attracting every passing coyote but there are some that get way more attention than others! A well formulated lure has all the triggers built into the formula. Weather it be bait lure or urine its all curiosity that attracts the coyote!
Posted By: red mt

Re: Bait testing studies - 11/16/20 12:57 PM

I have read test sites on bait lure studies , test site without trap I guess you can see if it will attract, I agree with Trapperbgus trap in mix changes things because what were looking for is will it catch for (You) because attract Kentucky fried chicken bucket will attract.
Posted By: beartooth trapr

Re: Bait testing studies - 11/16/20 01:39 PM

Just by the one that spends the most on advertising, help the guy out huh.
And always buy way more than you need , having to worry about how to save it over the summer is a good thing right.
Always remember it's very limited stock right laugh
laugh
Carry on
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