Duke 550 vs MB 550?

Hey guys Im possibly in the market to get a small bunch of 550 traps. Ive never owned any before so Im curious if you guys have any pros and cons with the MB 550 vs Duke 550. Other than the Duke is made in China and is a direct copy of the American MB except the pan shape difference and the MB sports crunch proof swivels and choice of regular or offset jaws. Please do not beat me up over considering a Chinese made copy of an American made trap. I am a trapper with a modest budget and just looking for the best trap for my money.

If It's about the price I would buy the Duke 550. They even offer free shipping If that's an issue.

I too am a trapped with a modest budget so I opted for the MB 550s just less of them. I will buy more here and there but I started with 2 dozen and now have 4 dozen. To some people that isn't a lot of traps but for me it is plenty. I believe having fewer traps has made me a better trapped because I only set prime locations. I had 8 dozen Duke #2s and rarely could I have them All set at once because I didn't have enough time to run that many. One day I hope to have enough time to run a longer line.

**Disclaimer: We try our very best to source all Minnesota Brand trap parts within the USA. At times in the past we have had issues sourcing sufficient quantities of particular parts from our USA suppliers. It is very important to us to provide a USA made product but also be able to provide trappers with traps. Therefore, our Minnesota Brand Traps are fully assembled by our American crew in Pennock, Minnesota with either all USA made parts or a combination of USA and minimal foreign parts when necessary to provide product to the marketplace.

Same with me. I work a full time job and supporting a wife and 3 kids at home so Its hard for me to have time to set a bunch of traps and have time to check a bunch of traps before or after work.

So even the MBs sometimes are made with foreign parts? Did not know that.

I went with MB550 mainly because I wanted an out of the box set and go trap...after giving them a cleaning. I read about and still read about how a lot of traps are just as good (AFTER YOU TWEAK THEM). I don’t have time to “tweak” a trap in order to have it catch critters. I read about dogs being bent and I even made a post asking about 550’s. I personally have yet to have a bent dog and that’s even a catch with a 90lb incidental...the owner told me how much the incidental weighed when I called him to come get it out of the trap. He got it, I reset and caught a coyote 2 days later.
I have only had issues with two traps, apparently they don’t hold up well the BIG tractors and harrows!! And yes, the landowner paid for them to be replaced.
My next dozen, here shortly, will also be MB550’s. You get what you pay for...

I have been talking to some people about the Duke 550s. If you aren't going to get real serious with setting traps the Dukes will do you great. The only problem I have heard of so far is the levers aren't as strong as the mb are, the Dukes will bend some and the pans are a little week but if the coyotes cant get their mouth on the pan to chew then it shouldn't be a problem. The price that I have been told on the dukes are crazy cheap I will be getting a dozen of the 650s and may get a dozen of the 550s. But I will always have my mb and will still buy more Mbs.

I did read somewhere that the MB comes set with a 2.5Lb pan tension. The Duke had up to a 5Lb tension out of the box. I do like the fact also the MB comes with a choice on jaws. Offset or regular. I prefer regular myself. I do like the square pan the Duke sports but thats not enough to justify buying them. I believe I will probably do like strike2x suggested and buy the MBs just a couple here and there.

I have 2.5 dozen offset, but a I think my next dozen will be regular. Why? Just want to try them out, possible I’ve missed a possum or two with the offsets. Critters = $$$

I wish I could say that, given the choice, I would choose American made over price, but for me it's just not realistic. I hope to get better at this in the future, but who knows. I believe in American made products, and American jobs, sometimes though it's just not conducive to my situation. Best of luck with your decision!

I bought 7 dozen Duke 550s I like them. I think they're as well built as a mb. Tractors smash them just the same as a mb and thieves dont seem to mind either. I dont regret my purchase one bit.

I got 2 dozen duke this past summer and will be buying more as long as the price stays the same.Only thing I did to them was put a nail swivel where the chain is hooked on to the trap.I would do this even if it was an MB,I just think it makes them nicer to bed.

Haven't bought any Duke 550s yet but did pre order a doz Duke 650s I'm excited to see next month

I ran two dozen of the duke 550's this season. Other than checking pan tension and checking the pan height, I did nothing to them. Never lost an animal in them. All good pad catches. Never had a distorted spring lever, bent dogs or bent pan issues. I am now patiently waiting for the 650 to get here!

Tim Caven has done mountains of things for the trapping community nation wide. Funded projects. Donated prizes. Donated to legal defense battles. He won my devotion.

I have thought Duke traps were just fine. But a nearly exact copy was over the top. That trap was an attack on an American made product without regard to copyright law. Yes it is too expensive for a little Minnesota company to fight it in China and any ruling would not be binding there anyhow. However I personally will never buy another Duke trap because of it. I encourage others not to as well. Defend an American value.

I can understand that. I do agree it was dirty that duke produced a near exact copy of the MB and slapped their name on it to be produced in China at near half price of the MB. Very few things anymore are actually made in the good ol USA. Im sure as I ride home im sitting in a pair of jeans made in Bangladesh. A sweater made in Vietnam and work boots made in Mexico. That’s the nature of the game I guess.

I don't think anyone has done more for the trapping community than Duke Traps have. MTP is not all American made either as you can see in their disclaimer above. MTP also owns Bridger Traps which is all made overseas, no one mentions that. Either way if you're buying Duke traps you are supporting an American company as well as US trap supply places, distributors, truck drivers, and all the kids programs and other things Duke support. You should not feel bad for supporting them IMO.

I use Duke Traps, Belisle Traps, EZ-traps DPs and MTP traps along with a few other brands. I'm not apologizing for buying any of them. It's my money and I'll spend it where I want.

If you think about it MTP and Duke are very similar. Both have foreign made products made for them both have an American made division, (pecans in Duke's case). Both support trapping and trappers. Both sell traps that are controversial in their origins, both seem to be dependable shippers, and I'm sure a lot of other similarities,,, just buy whatever you want.

Were does most of are fur go? Why not support the people who buy are fur???

I tried 24 Dukes this year and the 20 that didn't break are already sold. Sorry. NO BS. Unless Nebraska Coyotes are super strong.
That's what I get buy AMERICAN when you can. Why NOT support China?

I was considering buying the duke traps, are they really that different than the MB? The few people that I have spoken to in person seem to be happy with them. I own MB 550's and have no complaints other than one lever failed, it split at the seam.

Pictures??

We run both this year and both held coyotes and cats the same,either one will do,,the mb is better steel and worth the investment, but the dukes got a better price for a budget and a good trap,,,buy you a couple of each and try them is the only way you will be able to figure it out,imo

I am curious also as what "broke".

You miss the point. Stealing the design is what is unacceptable. The fact that you manufacture in China is only pertinent as it protects from a legal action against them. American engineering and patent should be defended. About ten years ago Cabela's stole the designs from Spring Creek Outfitters of the latters products Cabelas sold. They had them manufactured in China and sold at half the costs. They said "Suit us and we will break you with legal costs before you even see court." Eventually the owner, whom I know, had to sell the company. I simply cannot tolerate that. Spent $1000+ at Cabelas every year, not a single dollar since.

I hear a lot of people say that Minnesota Brand used the design off of Sterling's trap to make the MB 650, are all those ppl lying? If that is true then isn't the complaint that Duke copied MB's design being hypocritical?

Exactly desertambition !!!!

If your trap Isn't patented then no one Is stealing the design.

When I looked up the patent on the MB 550, it was for the pan and trigger system. If I read it right it was also expired. I’m no lawyer so I could have read it wrong.

Duke 550 worked great for me

Thanks for your input sir

I bought a dozen duke 550s at the Hoosier trapper day and all I did was boil and wax and attach cable stakes. I caught most of my 15 coyotes in them. Most of the coyotes still had their foot on the square pans when I got to them. I use mb 450s and 550s too. I used the dukes where thieves were more likely and I did have one stolen. Beats losing an mb though. I wish Duke made a closed jaw and a 450 sized trap.

As we see, when trapping products come up for comparison on Tman, there are typically comments for product A and product B, and some consider price as a component of their consideration. I don't consider price as much as I consider how long will something last? You can buy cheap twice and it's now more expensive than the real deal. I, like many, learned that years ago when foreign goods began showing up on American shelves. How many of us "wish" we could buy something "good" again (like the old days) in a particular category - as we use it and use it and use it some more?

Sadly, some categories now are only filled with cheap junk as consumers flocked to buy cheap stuff and good stuff manufacturers folded because of it.

MTP and Duke have both been solid supporters of our vocation for decades. There's no question about that.

My MB550s, purchased more than 11 years ago are going super strong. Same as the day I bought 'em. You can't find that in another trap on the market unless you invest in Jakes, etc. I appreciate the MTP crew (Rob Caven) providing the industry a trap in 2008 that we asked for and we didn't have to mess with (ready out of the box for coyotes) and now it's become the top trap in category - so we can anticipate cheaper knock offs will come out. China is that competitor, and Duke was the inspiration I guess? I really don't care about all that.

None of us have money to burn, but I'm sticking with MB550s. The real deal. They last and last. Not sure how long? Springs and all are 100% after 11 years! Money well spent!
A few bucks saved in the short term will cost me in the long run and I ain't getting dealt into that hand.

Well said Mark.

I might add 080808,

When something is built and runs like a Deere, I go all in!

Mark. I have respected all your comments but now I have a serious problem. I’m a Ford guy. lol

Disagree 110%

Understood 080808! I used to own Chevy's, having grown up near Flint, MI, birthplace of GM. I walked away from Chevy about 15 years ago after truck after truck after truck was sub-par. I looked at Ford when I bought my most recent Tundra, but didn't pull the trigger. Bossman talked to me years ago about trapping out of a Toyota that had loads of miles on it and not much shop work = MUCH cash saved. Again, when I use something, I need it to work.

My last Chevy (Colorado) blew a head at 38,000 miles and stranded me 16 miles from anywhere. $830 tow bill.

I may buy a Ford at some point but I like spending nada but maintenance for vehicles that we use a bunch.

Mark. Understood but due to my farm background I assumed we were talking about tractors . Bad when ya assume.
ps I drive a Nissan P/U. Very happy.

Objection! I'm a Dodge guy!

I was just in Kansas for our Trapping Academy AuthorTrapper. Two days before I was slatted to pick up leased Dodge trucks, all the Enterprise Dodge trucks were recalled! Ouch.
We got Fords.

Fords are the way to go in my opinion. Personally I would buy a Ford, Chevy or foreign over a Dodge. The only thing Dodge has I want is a ‘70 Charger.

I have 15 doz MB 550's and have NEVER lost any animal out of them. I did buy 2 dozen Duke 550's this winter to try out and will buy a couple dozen of the Duke 650's to try. When I'm trapping I don't have time to mess with bent, broke or trap problems. I don't care what brand it is, gives me problems and I will get rid of them. Can't make money messing with problem traps

I'm a Toyota man myself. Nothing holds up like one. I have one sitting in the driveway right now with 395,000 miles on it, and it has been owned by a houndman since it was new. It is starting to use a little oil but other than changing oil regularly and the timing belt twice, neither motor or tranny has been touched. Body is pretty rough, it's been rolled once, but it still runs good.

Unfortunately I also need a big truck to haul loads for work. Currently own an 08 Dodge 3500. The Cummins is a great motor, but the rest of the truck will fall apart around it while it is still going strong. And I will never recommend the automatic transmission. I have always been a strong proponent of standard transmissions but I couldn't find one for a reasonable price and everybody was swearing that the new Dodge auto was as good as Alison. I beg to differ, I have had it rebuilt twice in 130,000 and I don't hardly ever tow, and drive like an old man!

What has brands of trucks have to do with MB 550 vs Duke 550 traps? SOS

Waiting on pictures..or it didn’t happen!

Anyone looking to buy a different truck should Google vehicle problems for that particular year/model. Look at the owners forums that are available for each brand your interested in. You'll be surprised that NONE of them are bullet proof. I had Toyotas for 25yrs and then bought a Ford in 2010. Later I find out about the variable valve timing problem due to a sub par oiling system, and the wonderful transmission seal leak. Ford is having a bunch of problems with almost every motor they use. Moody;s just downgraded Ford stock due to warranty claim problems.
I had very little issue with 5 different Toyota trucks. The 2 problems I had were common to everyone and repaired no cost. I now uncover the fact that, yes, Toyota does have some issues, some dealers will warranty, others won't even discuss. One problem has been traced back to at least 2011 on Tundra motors that develop and oil leak at the seal between the cam towers and the head surface. Still not corrected at assembly (motors are assembled in Atlanta). That's 9 years ago.
People can purchase whatever brand they like, I have learned to do a lot of research.
Sorry I sidetracked the MB550 vs Duke thread. I have MB's.

Yep!!! Trust me all, the levers and the springs on the Dukes will be a problem for those that trap hard all season.... MB all the way!

I had no problems with the levers but think duke will fix the problem if they get bad feedback just like they did with the #2 duke and the D ring.The springs are just fine IMO.

They have already offered to send new levers to anyone having trouble. This years version will have thicker stronger levers. They always listen to their customers. You have to expect certain issues can arise on a new design. MTP had several design changes when they started their 550 as well.

I will be buying American designed traps from the American company that designed them.

Here is my opinion. I was going to buy a dozen or two of the Dukes because of the price. $80 a dozen cheaper is a heck of a deal. Two of my buddies bought some of the Dukes to try them out too. At first glance the only difference is the shape of the pan. Once you feel the Duke trap in your hand after handling a MB the Duke just feels cheaper. Then you look at the chain on the Duke. Its lighter weight and the swivels are janky. Both of my buddies had traps that the levers bent. Both of them lost traps due to the chain or swivel breaking. One guy has already sold them ,the other will use them until they are no longer usable.

So if you change out the swivels and chain on the Dukes you are not really saving that much money. Then add in the fact that you will have to replace these traps quicker. Ill stick with the MB's

Where's the pictures of these broken chains and swivels? I don't believe you were told the truth by your buddies or they were causing it pulling the traps or catching something much bigger than the target animals listed for the traps.

The bent levers has already been addressed.

When I bought my first dozen MB550's, when they first came out, they wouldn't even stay set, slipped right off the dog. I sold them. They made changes and improved the later versions. Last year was the first year of production of the Dukes 550 and I'm sure they too will make improvements.

Most every big coon trapper agrees the Duke 1.5 DJ is the best coon trap available. However if you were around years ago their 1.5 DJ was not too great, pan set about 3/4" above the jaws and DJ was just a dimple pressed into the jaw hardly widened the jaw at all.

I have asked for pictures ADC also ...or it didn’t happen.. SOS !!

I stopped by a local hardware store today to get a bag of fertilizer. I noticed they had some of the Duke 550s on the shelf. I thought about grabbing a couple till I seen the price. $26 a trap. Crazy!!

Ordering a dozen MB550’s today. With this virus and quarantine, might was well get more sets in, lol!

Yep me too that's what I've been doing everyone else is inside talking about how bad this quarantine is but I see no problems with it so long as I don't run out of gas and traps.

Im doing the same. Only thing that worries me if they start doing the no leaving your home quarantine. That will suck big time.

Well technically I’m working when trapping. Work is allowed from what I’ve seen.

As long as they are built to take out of the box and set, I don’t care where they are made. I’m not a “tweaker” lol. Haven’t read about a trap on here yet that doesn’t need some sort of tweak or adjustment in order to set. The only other traps I’ve heard of are maybe Jakes or K9’s. Would like to try those, but when I place an order, I need them ASAP.

Sleepy Creek has been my go to trap for a few years....."Tough enough, with no foreign stuff"

Plus I loathe the paws-i-trip system, just my own opinions.

All my 550’s pans have set perfectly level and right below jaw line and pan tension is right about 2.5-3#, and all night latches work as advertised. Never had an issue. I only have 2.5 dozen traps though...another dozen is on the way so we shall see.

As far as filing the dog, isn’t that for pan tension on the 550’s?

Ok, gotcha. All mine are 2 coils. Saw no need for 4 coils down here, no freezing temps or Wolf size coyotes.

I use all 2 cool MB 550s and most of my season is in freezing conditions. If a trap is froze in 20 coils won't help. To each his own though.

I agree. I don't buy the "breaking through the crust" rationale for 4 coils. Its either frozen in or its not.

How long of chain are you running?

In an MB550?

I use 12” Super Stakes connected with a quick link and pound in to the crunch proof so all they have is what comes on the trap. I’ve caught a couple by just toes and one by one toe. I have no clue if it was due to the jumping or offset or maybe just caught that way somehow. My next dozen coming are regular jaws...just experimenting to compare to offset jaws.
Just my opinion, but to me a shorter cabin allows for less possibility of a pull out. I see a shorter chain as less momentum.

All my MB550 os have 18 inches of chain to the anchor point. Makes remakes more friendly and yotes don't seem to fight as hard. Holds way more coon. I know it goes against the short chain theory , used to think the same till I tried it. I don't put a trap in the ground that isn't 4 coiled except for 450s, for the mechanical advantage and the initial push to bust thru caked mud and clay and frost. Before I started 4 coiling I had empty sprung 550s, not any more. Even by the elbows. I'm the proud owner of 10 dozen MB550 os 4 coils. If I could I'd 4 coil 450s too. Jc Conners lightning spring are pretty close to perfect, not too strong but still do the job. All my land traps have his Rod swivels with a 30d nail J hook at the D ring.. bent so they have a long neck..

You fellers in the south may not need 4 coils but up here, yepper

Well If the pan won't go down then It doesn't make any differenced if the trap was 6 coiled.
If your using bone dry dirt or waxed dirt or peat moss with a little top dressing then you shouldn't have any problems with the trap not preforming whether It's 4 coiled or 2 coiled.

If you say so. so why is it that most of the biggest hitters all use 4 coiled traps?

If your trapping out of state where it`s cold,a lot of guys run salt instead of carrying waxed dirt.4 coiled helps in this a lot,Salt only does so much.If your only setting a couple dozen traps a year you can use waxed dirt and be fine with 2 coil.

Poster above changed his post wording, making my post out of context.

Threw them away!? Should have laminated them Bridger's.

Yes SIR! Junk in my book!

?????? I've used first the No.2 Northwoods,then the No.2 Bridger which is the same trap with a different name on the pan.While not my favorite trap I used it for years and caught quite a pile of predators with them.So with that I'd dispute every wild claim you just made about them.Your making ridiculous statements,"broke every foot....","needed a blood transfusion","I threw my Bridger No.2's away"? Come on,are you really a trapper?

Dont throw anymore away give them to me!!! Ill pay shipping!

Can you stop posting this....and the deer run-away type comments. This behavior does not reflect modern trapping methods, trap choice, etc. Think of what you're putting on the internet.

I'm calling bull on this

I'm not buying anything he's selling.

I catch my fingers in my bridger #2 os dogless didn't break them infact I think the brand new duke 1.5 coil spring I got right on my thumb nail hit harder. Yet I was not satisfied with foot condition with them so they will be laminated before I put them out again or I will sell them. I'm 100% sure laminating will solve the problem. Even so I'm Going to try some mb 550s and a few Jake's . Can't make informed decisions without the experience of each brand.

I was going to order some more mb 550s but I bought little over a dz bridger #2 dogless offset 4 coil modified off a guy on here. That is my favorite trap now.

Bridger not American made.

I'm all for supporting american made. . . but I've driven Toyotas since before they were made in america. If I like something better I'm not going to buy an inferior (In my opinion, it is often subjective) product, just because it is american made. I might even pay a little more for an american made product if I like the company than an identical foreign made one. But bottom line is I'm going to buy the product that works best for me.

Personally I've never used a bridger #2 so I don't know how I would like them, but if that's what bobcat trapper likes, that's what he should get. Not something inferior simply because it is american made.

P.S. Bridger may not be american made, but they are owned by the same company who makes MB traps, and I believe are modified here in the US.

No! Say it ain't so.

LMBO

Based on my experience, and from what I've seen from others, the Dukes are not AS GOOD as the MBs. That is to be expected, and to me there's no point in trying to argue otherwise. They are built to a price point. Having said that, just because they're not AS GOOD doesn't mean they are not GOOD ENOUGH. My opinion is that for the average trapper the Dukes will work just fine, after all, they are BETTER than the average #1.75 size trap on the market. For many it will come down to affordability. The Duke clearly seems to have the advantage here, with purchase price that is.
For me, affordability played out a bit different though. For a fair comparison, I bought a brand new dozen of each brand. The MBs were super consistent out of the box, and I only added a mid chain swivel, no other tweaking was NECESSARY. The Dukes needed a bit more work to get them ON PAR with the MBs. Besides adding the mid chain swivel, I changed out all the j hooks and they needed some adjustment to get them to set nice and flat with the same pan tension across the board. Notice that I said ON PAR. Would these have worked out of the box? Certainly. Would they have performed as well as the MBs out of the box? Maybe, but unlikely.
Where I ran into the biggest drawback however is when I actually started catching coyotes in them. The main problem was the levers, and I came to expect bent levers on the Dukes after a catch. The MBs had Zero issues, with more catches being made in them vs Duke. So for me personally, it turns out the MBs were more affordable because there was much less downtime.

To all the people who haven't had any such issues with them, good for you, but I would like to know how many catches were actually made.

All in all, they each hold their place and I think if the lever issues are fixed on the Dukes I would try some more.

Rob Caven brought me a dozen mb 550’s to kodiak one winter 6 years ago. Lord only knows how many land otter and fox those traps have held up against gettin beat up in the rock piles over the years. Not to mention the salt hasn’t ruined them like most. They are tough, and still going strong.

Like some others on here I have been trapping for a long time.

When i first saw an MB550 it seemed too good to be true! I bought some and tinkered with them. Then started using them and found them to be as perfect as anything could or needed to be for me in my land trapping and some water trapping.

I have always lived in the USA and believe in supporting our economy because (I am generalizing here) both directly and indirectly we all pay each other. Plus the quality is usually superlative.

By comparison, When I first saw the Duke 550 I could not believe that they had the audacity to make a direct copy. I did not say an exact copy. It angered me because I know that they can usually easily get away with this. Next, it made me feel really bad for the Cavens and everyone at Minnesota Trapline Supply. I am not speaking for them, but that trap in production very likely bothers them a great deal.

The Cavens and everyone at MTS have been really good to me. I appreciate those folks for what they have accomplished and what they do. I expect that much time, effort, and expense went into designing the 550 and its siblings. Well, hold your head high folks because as a matter of principle and support, I would not use the Duke copycat traps if they were free.

Hopefully someday there will be an international legal mechanism to right the wrongs by Chinese and others who simply reverse engineer American products, produce a cheap copy, and sell it in America directly competing against the original product.

In case my answer is not clear - no I would not use the Duke 550.

I have some 550’s and 650’s . Have dealt with MTP for 20 plus years and couldn’t agree more with Wiily Firewood statement.

I am with you guys as well.

Since there aren't any Trap patents then there Is no harm no foul. It's called doing business. In my opinion the MB traps look a lot like the Sterling traps. And no one Is making a big fuss over that.

The MB650's are not direct copies of the Sterling and it is pointed out,time and again by Sterling owners that the trigger system is not the same.

It was my first year trapping last year. I used mb550s (cast offsets) for my coyote sets and they worked flawlessly. I looked at the Dukes at the convention and definitely like the price point. I will buy from Minnesota Trapline because they are local and customer service rocks

Beav - yes there are patents on various traps. Yes there is harm and foul. And no, it is not just doing business. I have never met in person the Cavens or anyone who works at MTS. But I find it very easy to see the problem and I find it even easier to have the integrity to speak out in support of these American people.

And by the way, there are other methods to protect a design. Valuable designs are highly protected by a very powerful system. For example, Ford Motor Company has protected the size, shape, proportions, and font used to spell out “Super Duty”. There has been litigation in Federal court over this. Guess who won? How about the curve and likeness of a Volkswagon Bug? Yes, highly protected. There are protections for trade marks, service marks, and even copyrights that can be used to protect elements of an entire object. Final example - create and advertise with a business logo that contains a stylized 4 pane window and see how far that goes. Intellectual property is included in the design of physical products.

I really don't see a problem with it. Most of us that fix things ourselves like vehicles, furnaces,washers, dryers, exc. Don't use OEM parts because we can get a much cheaper alternative. This is no different. Are the dukes just as good as the originals probably not but for many the price difference is worth it. The dukes are what 25% cheaper than the mbs , I have seen the duke 550s and there's no way that it is only 75% the quality of a mb . Maybe 5 or 10% less of a trap but that's it which would make the dukes,for most the better deal.

No body usually cares where their after market coil packs come from only that they are half the price as factory ones.

I think the biggest issue with the duke 550s that people have is that they know and have had good experiences with Rob and his family/employees and it feels personal and that's ok good people tend to stick up for friends and family .

Like I stated earlier I don't see an issue with this but if Rob or his family/employees do especially if Rob thought him and Bill were friends, have a problem with it totally understandable. I personally have never met either of them.

I do believe if Bill would have come out with his version of the 650 first before his 550 this wouldn't have been as big of an issue also could have chose a different name, been wanting a bigger version of the 550 for years. Just my 2 cents to each their own, good luck.

Was the sterling trap the first to come out with wire levers? Were they the first to come out with the lock down system for both jaws?
Who came out with the first cast jaws?

As we can see everything has been copied from day one.

Many are missing the point entirely.Rob Caven did all the research and development for the production of the MB 550 and it was considerable ,several design changes,several jaw style changes as well as different models.You are talking a tremendous outlay of resources for a small company to developer a trap that many have called the most popular trap of it's type,right now.

That is all it took.Duke had to get a slice of that with out all the expense of research and developement.Just hand it over to the Chinese to do what they have done since WWII-copy without remorse.This type of piracy stifles creative inventers and entrepenuers and discourages them from wanting to take on big projects that can be a boon to us all.

Nailed it Taxi, thanks There is a lot more to designing a trap than most of you think. After the protos are done then the proof testing. It takes a lot of catches to do that. The cost of protos is staggering, then the tooling and dies etc. etc.. It doesn't happen overnight, if you want a solid well designed product. All pawholds function the same, but some are designed better than most. Thanks to Rob The MB 550 is one..

The paws I trip type pans have been around for ever same with cast jaws. And 4 coiled traps have been around forever. Lots of trappers have added a rod to the dog to keep It from being bent.
The frame the jaws the levers have been around before most of us were born. I don't see where a ton of research had to be done.

How long has the mb 550 been on the market?

https://www.bing.com/search?q=black...3522F05&FORM=QBLH&sp=1&ghc=1

Dose this look familiar?

No one said anything about the position trip pan.

Casting a jaw was never the issue either.THE exact 550 cast jaw was copied.If you think there was no R+D on developing a specific cast jaw,several different updated versions,you don't know anything about the design and casting process.Shocking.

The MB 550 has a unique frame.Oh yes,traps have had frames forever.Not this one.It was copied exactly.This took a lot of R+D to develope.

It takes a ton of research and developement to develope dies and equipment to stamp out all the parts.Even the levers are designed for that trap.It isn't about levers have been made before and you know that.Duke copied that specific part,albeit with cheaper material.

Why don't they design and build their own,better trap? Because they don't do expensive R+D.It is partly why they can sell cheaper.Let someone else do the expensive part.

The 550 is the most blatant example of this that they have done.Theft of ideas and intellectual properties deters talented people from creating new and better things.That affects all of use,even Duke.It can reduce their selection of traps to copy.I'm sure they are doing well.They have a solid business plan for making money.I couldn't do it.

Relax Beav,you're not going to buy either,anyway.

Your right.
I talked to Bill Duke and asked him If he would name the new 650 "The Beav special" He said he would take It under consideration. LOl

Make sure you get royalties.There was a lot of R+D that went into creating your "brand".

So no one knows when the first mb 550 was introduced?

Sorry,I don't but have wondered this myself.I have had mine for maybe 6 years but I know they were out years before I tried them.I hope someone will answer you question.

Beav,



You know as much as anyone about dukes.


Did they actually design any models that they produce?

I wish they would copy a sterling.

Never been a fan of that style of trigger.

I can ask.

take a look at the wts brand of dingo traps? they look like an exact copy of the #3 dogless bridger and the #5 bridger traps. or are the bridger traps and exact copy of the wts traps?

I love this thread. It quickly shows me who has similar morals and values. WhoI have respect for. Being new it helps shorten the learning curve.

If duke would have developed this trap and MB copied it would this have been ok. I think most traps are copies of a other traps already out there. Patents will prevent this for a short time frame

Copying a concept is common.This is a direct copy of the MM550.way different.Add insult to injury,they did it to a business associate-MTP has sold their products for years.A US patent doesn'T work in a foreign country.You can get patents in other countries but patents are expensive and it is cost prohibitive.Would anyone trust a Chinese court to give you justice?Wow,that just sent chills up my spine.

I'm no Patent lawyer but I can't see any part of any coil spring trap that can be patented In the US or any other country.
The Grizz DP had a patent on part of the trap but not the whole trap.

I would think a new design of the dog trigger mechanism or something you could probably patent. But since the majority of traps are made in China and China ignores US patent law; well I couldn't really see bothering with it.

Well one thing no-one has addressed is that the MB550 jaws are a unique,creative design and are an intellectual
property,just like a sculpture.Not like a stamped out jaw.They are unique creation and as such would fall under copyright law which attaches AT the moment of creation.You don't have to file a copyright if you can prove you had it first.Any question who had it first?Copyright lasts way beyond a patent.

True Taxi but the 550 has had at least 3 different jaw designs. The originals were by far the best on feet. Wish they never would have changed. Only will run MBs here. I’m thinking I had my first long dog 550s back in 08 or 09. Not 100% though.

All 3 designs would still be under copyright.I think I may have a few of that first design.I haven't noticed a difference but haven't studied it either.

Do you know when the MB550 first came out?

Not sure Taxi. Do you remember when they had the big fat jaws? Wasn’t very long but they were really different.

The patent on the Grizz Trap was for the complete trap, not part of it. The language of the first claim on the patent was written wrong due to a misunderstanding between my patent attorney and the USPTO patent examiner. The USPTO office recognizes myself as the inventor of the Grizz DP concept.

One thing I will add to this post. There are many great ideas that have been invented for the trapping industry. Unfortunately, there is always someone waiting for the next big thing to come out so it can be copied.

I know what Rob Caven is going thru and wish him luck.

Most bodygrips look very similar to the one Frank Conibear invented.

I am really not sure if I do.I got six quite some time ago.I will have to look through mine.Come to think of it,Mark June said he has had his for 11 years.
.

Not 100% sure,i think they came out in 2005,GREAT TRAP....

The nature of opinions:

Unfortunately many folks mistake their own opinions for either facts, restatements of the law, persuasive arguments, or “the way the world works”. In reality, they are none of the above.

There are way too many opinions being projected as some type of authority. Opinions stated louder and more frequently are no more statement of authority than from the first utterance.

An opinion slightly modified to better fit a situation is still an opinion and of no real value.

The original post asked the question “Would you use Duke 550 traps?”
Again I answer the question. Emphatically, No!

Well stated Willy.

Hi Mark,

Thank you my friend.

I really liked you mb550 family photo.

How is school going? I respect you for following your calling. That takes very strong faith, and the courage to act upon it. Probably no one there to discuss trapping with? I like your signature for graduation.

Since retirement, it is best that I not get involved in legal arguments. That door is closed.

Stay healthy!

Willy,

Appreciate the nice comments. My family photo with Donna and Grace is one of my favs.
Seminary is wondrous for the heart and incredibly tough for the work load. I took 15 credit hours and my courses at this evangelical, non-denominational Seminary with the motto of "Preach the Word, Love Well" are;

Trinitarianism
Intro to Old Testament studies
Educational Ministries and Leadership
Greek II
American History of Theology
... and then I have a 4 man Spiritual Formation group that I'm leading in a spiritual sense.

So there is a bunch of learning going on, but I can't really describe how blessed I feel to attend. I have a VERY supportive wife!
We're all online because of Covid-19, which isn't optimal, but it the best we can do of course at this point.

You know what they say, "You're never too old to learn!"
Blessings
Mark

Hi Mark,

I sent you a Private Message.

Willy

After the Wuhan debacle, nobody should buy anything from China

I never buy from China!!!!

I buy from other people that buy from China, so I should be ok

Pretty sure it was 08, Rob was still in high school. Tim let him design and fab on his own.. Got my first one in 2010 to test here, Needless to say I was impressed. Now I have 10 dozen, I'm even more impressed. 10 seasons only 2 losses out of a bunch of fox and yotes. No maintenance except for 550s ran over by heavy equipment. Even the springs are still strong. I've got 10 of the originals, my wife will bury me with those .. There are situations and conditions were a larger jaw spread is better especially for straight fur trappin yotes.

The 2 losses were before I 4 coiled them...…...

Thanks Gary.

Has anybody that you know of tested by using a Duke 550 and a MB 550 at least 20 feet apart and at least two locations on a farm and tested on 40 or 50 farms or locations. Then figured how many coyotes were caught and what the ratio is.Just because a trap looks similar or identical does not mean it is or has the same ability.After two years or less there should be no question.

Do the non targets count?

I would think so as long as coyotes would be targeted. It would also need to be enough trap nights at each location.Coyotes would be the hardest to catch so they would have to be the focus.

I don't think all that is necessary especially in this circumstance. Because the taps are let's be honest, a exact duplicate the only thing that could be flawed with this trap is inferior metal or springs everyone knows the design is exceptional.

Even if it were slightly different it's still just a foothold for the most part traps are simplistic in design and that is what makes coil spring traps so effective . Basically jaws,springs, levers,base, pan,dog and chain . That's also why so many people still use so many long springs even simpler

Ok I know where your going but If one or the other trap catches lets say a grinner should that trap be replaced and set In new location? I just think there are to many variables to pick one trap over the other.

That is why you target coyotes As your main focus. Just as you would target beaver or otter.

But as you know any good coyote set Is also a prime set for anything passing by. Is a dirty trap and catch circle going to skew results one way or the other.
I know this Is about the magnetic field thing not the function of the trap. Do you think that one critter Is more prone to avoid this then another? Skunks grinners other trash come to mind.

The species of the animal, the age of the animal, Learned factors, many other things I’ve written about are all involved. You can easily be proved by running a test as I described. After the field test is done measure the magnetic field of the device you’re using. It will confirm what you learned every time.

I agree with you, if the metal is inferior or the springs the design is exceptional. But I believe even if that were the case the pan being round or square may make a difference when All test are done including a Magnetic field intensity test.
The magnetic field intensity test would confirm the quality of metal in the design May be creating the difference And that the trap is exactly the same.

I'll call Bill Duke and see if he can do a magnetic field intensity test he may have access to such equipment.
If his traps test low that should be a huge selling point. I'm serious I'm going to check this out.

You can test for yourself just convert an iPhone 6 with a Tesla bot app. Bill may not be overjoyed because if I’m correct it will change the way trappers determine what trap to buy. I have tested some of his cage traps some have a reduce field and some do not. You will find that some of the traps that have been promoted as being the best will be proven not to be. A lot of it has to do with what Animal you’re trying to catch. As well as the age of that animal. It mainly tells you what device will be more efficient and catching the animal animal than another trap. It definitely will tell you which trap will be the most effective. I have done too much testing with a variety of devices not to believe in what I’ve discovered.

So a buried trap that has a stake/chain/cable driven anywhere between 12-24” still has a magnetic field that detours critters?
If that’s the case, I guess every trap ever produced must pass the test because just about every trap made has been posted on here with catches made.

How the trap is positioned and bedded makes a big difference.Even soil type and weather conditions. It’s in my book. Done too much testing not to believe it. When I figured out the magnetic field was making the difference I realize how big of a factor In catching the thousands of animals each year that I did.

Kirk, you ever think of designing a plastic trap? Ought to outperform any steel trap ever made if what you're saying is true. Or you could go with brass, aluminum, titanium or another nonferrous metal.

The problem with the plastic trap That is it there’s an enclosed box heat becomes a factor in the summe.I have found it seems to be best to redirect the field. Components a real problem mainly because of cost

Interesting stuff Kirk.
I learned the hard way that rods from a rod mill are worthless as scrap. Was told they lose magnetics from being tumbled, magnet wont pick em up.. Maybe these trappers with mixers were on to something more than they knew?
This needs it's own topic/thread.

It is all common sense. Or should I say sound science. It just has to be understood and a lot will come out of it.

Some metal painters know of this, blasted vs rubbed.
One old boy over here grounds the vehicle before spraying.
Static attracts dust and dirt he says.
I just shut up and observe.

He’s changing the direction of the ions. I don’t think he’s truly grounding the truck or the car while painting. You know

Honestly guys Im buying some of both. Duke 550 and MB 550. Im just a hobby trapper and occasional adc trapper. I probably own less than 20 traps. I dont know Bill Duke or Rob Caven personally as Im sure a lot of you guys do. Truthfully I dont think it was right that Duke copied the design and produces it overseas but that fact of the matter is it happened. The price and the square pan is what I like about the Dukes. I work a full time job and have a wife and 3 kids to feed so price IS a bonus for me. As long as it will hold an animal then I am happy. I just ordered some MBs as well so I will be just as excited to put them in the ground along with the Dukes. I own some Bridger #2 and #3s also. So Im supporting Duke and Caven. If that makes me a bad person or someone that does not deserve respect then thats your opinion. I do find it funny however the guys that preach about buying only American made traps that ride around in a foreign car and ignore the made in Bangladesh, Vietnam, China, etc tags on everything else they buy. Just my two cents.

I get a kick out of people saying buy mb then have no problem that Bridger are not American made also.

It is very tough to not buy foreign. Very tough indeed.
I'm not particularly one to advocate who should buy what, from who, based on which. I'm a manufacturer myself who has seen copycats along the decades and that's what leaves a sour taste as they say. Duke is a wonderful supporter of trappers and trapping, and I suspect they aways will be as long as the current generation is on this earth anyway. They coulda found a way to compete with the market leading trap without making it so blatently obvious they were copying it. Even the name for goodness sake.

I recall years ago, we were at a trapper's convention and the police came in and arrested a vendor. Confiscated his merchandise (copied DVDs), and took him out. He was selling "cheaper" copies of original DVDs, in and among the other vendors he pirated from! Bold. And I saw some buy from him because his merchandise was "cheaper", but sometimes the dollar isn't all of what life is wrapped in.
It's integrity. John Wayne kinda stuff. Honest day's wages for an honest day's work. Hand shake kinda stuff.
I have met MANY people like that in trapping and it's one of the things I like about trappers to be quite honest. Most are honest. We don't like our stuff stolen and we don't steal other people's stuff.
But some people call themselves trappers and they do steal stuff. I say they aren't trappers. They're thieves. I don't confuse the two at any level.
But then again, people call me old fashioned.
They're prolly correct.
I'll stick with the MB550 and not the copycat, on principle more than any reason, and on the fact they've lasted 11 years so far (I expect them to last many more years).

I sympathize with those who have limited $$$$, and we all decide where the $$$$ flows. In what direction.
I'll reward a good product with my $$$$, not the other way around (buy cheap cause it's cheap).
I'll support integrity John Wayne style.

The way it should be!

If I buy any 550’s it will be the Dukes . I don’t like people telling me something that’s not true. It happened twice.

Well said.

LT said on here long ago that "quality only hurts once." I remember that.

If I'm trapping coyotes (with traps that can literally last decades) I guess I'm not going to try and save a couple bucks. I'll cut corners on my road right-of-way traps instead.

Many have seen this but I'll post a picture for some who haven't.I experimented to se if I could modify an MB550 to have more jawspread.

It is all 550 except for a longer dog and slightly modified,IL,MB650 jaws.Sterling swivels American made,twist link,machine change.The outside jawspread turned out to be 6 1/8".The offset gap is close to that of the 550.I have no real experience with them yet but have used the MB550's for quite a few years,as well as the IL MB650',so I am confident they will work well

One of the surprises was that they weigh a fraction of an ounce less than the 550 and at least 8 oz less than the IL 650 and more than 11 oz less than the cast jaw 650.I have to do some hiking to some coyote set locations so light,if it is still strong,is always good.A little more jawspread can help in our Winter ground conditions.

Buy Kirks book so you can understand how it relates to catchin or not, I've read it 7 times so far, It has changed my perception the way animals act around sets and how my traps are bedded. It's not the rust!

Hi Taxi - I remember your unofficial mb600. It is a great step in between. I sent an email to Cavens asking if they would consider running a test batch of your design. They said that they put your idea on the drawing board. Maybe you heard more.

If i start walking now going west from eastern Ohio, maybe I would get there in time for you to show me one of those beautiful coyotes that you catch in the fall.

Best wishes.

I do and will in a heart beat

Thanks,Willy Firewood.I have never spoken to Tim or Rob,that I know of but that is interesting.

I sure wish that the Caven’s would make an mb600, just like the 550 only bigger.

Popcorn

… x2

XXX 3. They need to get on that. The duke trap would irrelevant if they came out with one legal in more states. Say a 6” model. Duke screwed the pooch by making it to big. IMO.

Taximan,by moving the jaw so close to the back of the dog I would think it would be harder to get 3 or 4 lb. pan pressure.I did a lot of messing around with the bridger #2 and the step down paws I trip pans and when first put on I had trouble getting the poundage up because of this.With a good bit of tinkering and welding I got them where I wanted them but it took some work.What`s the pan tension on that?

XXX4 . I am with you on the 6 inch jaw spread. Duke would have a better audience with 6 inch inside jaw spread. Lots of states follow 6 in inside jaw spread. Alabama has 6 inch inside jaw spread law

That's what I told Bill Duke when I emailed he said there may be future plans of an Duke 600

All states except Ga...they’re afraid our deer couldn’t escape anything over 5.75”.

6” not allowed in NY. Inside laminated????

It ticks me off GA doesn’t allow over 5.75” for land trapping. Beaver trapping they dont care go as big as you want.

You are exactly right.That is the flaw in my design.I knew it would happen but wasn't sure how much the tension would go down.Moving the jaw closer to the dog eye,messed up the trigger geometry that Rob designed into it.My purpose in this project was to se how little I could change the 550 and still have more jawspread,so I didn't really want to fabricate any parts.

It needs to have a longer cross and dog so the middle of the dog rests on the jaw.I tweaked it a little by filing the jaw so that the dog only contacts the inside lam.Then I bent the dog up slightly and added the 4 coils.I don't measure pan pressure but it probably goes about 2 1/2 #.That is a little lighter than I usually run but I can work with that.

I converted 6 of these but am going to wait to see what the future brings before converting the rest.We have some of the best traps available to us,today and it seems like companies are still trying to improve.

Oh,forgot to say,before the tweaks,pan tension was very light,probably less than a pound.Good observation,Forestman,you are the only one to ever catch that.

How many of you own a Ozark trail cup?

Think I have one. The wife put a wood-stain on it. It looks really good.

Don't tell me it has a magnetic field too?!?

LOL!!!

I’d vote for a 6” mb-600 with same frame and jaws but a dogless pan setup similar to NO BS or Jake that sits below the jaws and works well with screen.

I figured that most if not all of us have a ozark trail cup. With that being said what's wrong with buying the duke 550 after all ozark cup is a direct copy of an American made company's product Yeti. Plz don't ban me again for this comment . Hahah

Same here. Would immediately order 3 dozen.

That would be really cool kind like the dogless 600 that taxi made just like the 600 he just posted but with Bridger dogless pan

Now you guys are talking crazy.I don't own an Ozark Trail cup either.

Because I could care less if I have to buy a $10 cup every year. I want my traps to last a lifetime with very minimal work and so far MB550’s fit that bill.

Taxi was that picture I seen it yours with the reinforced levers and the Bridger dogless pan?

Taxi was that picture I seen it yours with the reinforced levers and the Bridger dogless pan?

No,mine have 550 levers and pan,also are not dogless.

I'm not taking dukes side here at all and I can see your point but the 650 is kinda their own design is buy one of them if the jawspread was legal in my state. But my dad was going to buy some of the duke 550 for me and I wouldn't even consider it.

Midway claims they are made in the USA.

That was the 550s I sent to Tom Stalker with the 650 jaws and the Bridger dogless pan and reinforced levers. Over 30 bucks a trap for the mod. but they are sweet. He won't mod any more of those. to much cost and labor. Taxi gave me an idea and I ran with it..

Be patient please and thanks

Ok that's a sweet looking setup

This is an absolutely fantastic post.

Wildflights - thank you for the compliment.

In the spirit of this discussion, that is my original writing not a plagiarism.

Im having the same issue with the Duke and MB 550s. I recently got a couple Dukes and a half dozen MBs. Every trap is coming with pan tension close to or possibly exceeding five pounds. The Dukes I could understand this but I thought I read and heard the MBs came with tension around 2.5LBs. Its not that big of a deal I guess since Im used to tinkering with traps being welding base plates on, adding 4 coils and night latching etc but it does aggravate me some that Im having to tinker on a trap that is supposed to be set and ready for multiple species and supposed to be ready to dye and wax and throw in the ground right out of the box. Any of you other guys dealing with this issue too or am I just being a baby about this?

I have about 3 dozen or so MB550’s and every one of mine are about 2.5-3# of tension. Mine are 2 coiled if that makes a difference. Don’t see a need for 4 coils down here where I trap.

T - Yes, you are being a baby.

Personally I prefer things to be as advertised. The 4 coiled will be in the range you described.

I have not 4 coiled my MBs or Dukes. Pan tension still 5lbs. Maybe I just received an odd batch. A little file work should fix it up.

Try rubbing wax on the 5 contact points of the trigger.
Those points and the angles is where I'd study.

I was skeptical of the claims of traps never needing adjusted.
They can be perfectly tuned from the maker, then be beat by fork lift ops, trucking, unloaded and reloaded at fair grounds, ups guy etc.

If I had a big pounder and a small pounder I'd figure it out, but I don't so will now shut up.

Oh and the location on the pan,
where you take the tension test,
might be something to consider.

They went with a beefier 7 wrap spring a couple years ago and when they did, the tension changed from the factory in most that I have come across. I have the older 8 wrap springs. For the stiffer 7 wrap, file the dog down until desired pressure. I don't bend the dogs since I can't do it time after time at the same spot. When trappers come to my trapping Academy, 550 is the most common AND I have learned to check each and every one prior to field use.

That's a good point Mark. I had some older 550's, and the weren't the strongest. So I bought some a dozen newer ones, right from Tim at the convention. I told him I wanted 4 coils, and he was out. So, he whipped a few 4 coil springs on, and off i went. WOW, are they strong. Tough to set...and tough to tune.

I believe the new 550's are plenty strong 2 coiled. I will not 4 coil anymore of them. I just don't feel it's necessary.

yukonal, the 2 coil do everything we need them to do. Plus, any landowner will not be able to open a 4-coil if a domestic gets caught = BAD

Thanks for the information Mr. June. I have learned a ton from your dvds from the importance of interspersion to the types of sets you use that catches the critters. Before I was a truly frustrated water trapper trying to break the barrier to land trapping. I caught my first coyote using your two poop set. So sir I want to say thank you!

My dad and I have had better luck with the mb 550. The duke coyote traps don’t hold up as well as they should and after a big catch it needs repairs.

So have you used the Duke 550?

Beav I don't feel that a lot of the posters have even held the trap. Some of them just jump on the bashing band wagon because certain posters air out their opinions and don't have a clue other than what they have read. It doesn't matter if the mb 550 scandal was uncovered or not, they just stick their head in the sand because they just don't want to believe it.

So the new Duke 550’s, that are basically copies of the MB traps, are better than the Dukes of old? Or are you saying all Duke traps are better than the MB’s? Pretty sure people are going on past experiences and not wanting to waste money.

He never answered my question. So unless he has used a NEW Duke 550 he can't say the Duke coyote traps don't hold up.
I have used those traps and they hold up just fine.

T-Rev,
You are most welcome. Glad the DVDs came in handy.
Keep on keeping on!

Mark

I've been pleased with the Duke 550's although the levers could be a little stronger. With that said, in the future I'll go back to MB's . When my springs started to feel weaker I started adding a 3rd spring. Liked it so much that all my traps have been 3 coiled for years. Nice medium between 2 and 4 coil.

Interesting Archeryguy, what spring do you use to 3 coil?

I’m assuming he just puts on one spring on loose jaw side?

Good info people. I trapped back in the transition years of fox to coyotes and know trap failure all to well. I’ve had excellent service from my 15 year old MB 550 and 450’s. It’s possible I would try some once they get them figured out. I know back when they first started I bought some 1 1/2 coils and the pan stuck up way above the jaws and I never used them. I currently own 0 dukes but would consider their updated 550.

I don't like the thought of this. One lever is going to come faster. What happens to the slow lever and the trap jaws? Sounds like a bad idea.

That's why I asked the question, One of the reasons I 4 coil is for the mechanical advantage and to balance the power. Never tried it tho, might work Dunno.. Paw may end up in the corner..

If you have read Charlie Dobbins book on trap adjustment you would see that when the springs got weak on his coil springs he only replaced one spring.
Once the jaws are closed the leavers have created LOCK UP and the springs are not a factor any more. So I don't see where the single spring side Is going to act any different then the doubled spring side. The single sprung side Is not lagging behind when the trap Is closing.

I bought two mb550 two days ago and an mb450 yesterday and I am in love. They are great traps.

I’ve been considering the 450’s. Let me know how they do for larger critters. I only have the MB550’s and never had an issue with them.

How can it not lag behind, it has less spring pressure. Seems like I need to do some testing. May just have to video it. The way I figure it I will be able to show that one lever will reach the top first and the foot of the animal will act like a pivot making the slower lever lock up lower leaving that side of the trap open wider. I may be wrong but I doubt it. Also, I never said it wouldn't work, I just said it sounds like a bad idea.

They should in theory arrive at the same time or at least to close to matter. You would need a high speed camera to tell.

The 2 spring side would obviously do more work which would make less work for the single spring side. I would guess they would arrive at the same time since they are all working to close the same 2 jaws.

The only way I can see it differently is if the single spring was super weak and the other 2 were super strong. Even then probably only milliseconds of difference .

I'm not at all worried about that 450 holding a yote the springs are crazy strong lockup is very tight and its got the same gussetted frame as the 550 just smaller of course. Either way it's a beast of a little trap

The 450 is not big enough for coyote in my experience. I had one get in a fox set and when I got there to check all i had was it's sock from about mid pad down. The grad won't catch high enough in my opinion band I would never intentionally set a 450 for coyote. The set I had that happen in was a fox set on a golf course in town. Didn't figure I had to worry about coyote there since I had been trapping it for 4 seasons prior and never noticed any sign. Just my experience, not saying bit won't hold one ever.

I'm not at all saying go set the 450 for coyote intentionally but if you were needing a fox trap where you might catch a yote i feel it's a great trap.

I cut a Taos Lightening 4 coil spring in half and use a half on each trap. On the loose jaw.

Been doing it for years and have no issues. I'm pretty sure my catch ratio to empty sprung trap is much better.