Offset vs modified jaws

A few minutes ago I put out a post and messed up by not putting a title on it so it showed up titled under my user name, Onyx. I was looking for opinions on trap size and offset vs regular jaw for upland predator line, raccoon, Fox, coyote.

Excuse my goof. Your opinions are appreciated.

Thanks

Offfset holds a bit better as the offsets allow the levers to come up a fraction higher.

Thanks

Unless your state mandates offsets I see no reason to use them.

Thanks

i use offset when land trapping coyotes and fox. reg jaws when water trapping and dp for coon

I own and use both regular jaw and offset jaw 2 & 3 size traps on land. Haven't noticed any difference myself.

A flat squared off edged surface is your best holding option. If a person want's to laminate then you should use square stock to do the job.

Off set jaws are a feel good thing In my opinion. Let's say you catch a coon In a offset jawed trap and the initial catch Is a good solid pad catch. The first pull by that coon Is going to turn that good solid pad catch to a toe catch and It's probably going to be a lost coon. It's not going to be a problem with a coyote or fox type foot because of the shape..

2X

This Guy ^^ "has been there done that"....I never did buy into offset jaws.

X2

I get that levers come up higher for a better hold. And I get that coon may be able to pull out. I use them in case I catch a non-target that has to be released. I use Montana #3 in both regular and offsets and MB 550 in both configurations. Neither of these designs cut the skin. But the offsets allow more circulation. This may not be happening but it is my belief there is better circulation with the offsets and it is a big seller when trying to get a city-fied rural resident to open up their property to trapping.

If you have a 3/16ths offset I can guarantee you there will be No circulation to that appendage. Offset or no offset. Is this a problem on a 24 hour check I don't believe It Is. Now If you have freezing weather then It's going to be a problem.

Feet will freeze with either.I do like the lockup on offsets like the MB550's and MB650's.Researchers use nothing but offsets for catching and collating wolves and say it helps with circulation and it does but keep in mind they only do this work in the warmer months.That is the caveat.In colder months,here,the switch over to darting from planes when wanting to collar them.

Regardless,most current manufacture wolf traps are offset and most wolf trappers want them that way.

I like offsets for land animals except coon,due to lockup and closed jaws,not too rounded (edges)for water animals,along with coon.I don't target coon often but if I do,closed jaw 1 1/2's.Many are caught in larger,offset jawed,coyote traps and some pull out.That's Ok for me.My closed jaw 1 1/2' Victors are still holding coons after 40 years.

Another thing to consider is that many more States are mandating offset jaws and more will,along with other changes.This could lead to changing jaws or selling traps for offsets.Most of the mods to make jaws offset are inadequate and reduce lockup.Wolfdog51 has it figured out and may have a video or at least pictures to show how it is done.

Some also report that land owners like the idea of offsets and other improvements whether a real advantage or not.Just some food for thought.

Offset 100%. I have used offset/ regular/ laminated and non laminated traps and every combination of those. Offset, outside lamination is best in my experience. I have never had a bad catch that I can attribute to offset jaws. I've had just as many toe catches in regular jaw as offset. The idea of an offset jaw trap not holding as well as a closed jaw trap only comes from using an oversized trap for your target animal. For example if you have a 1/4 or 3/8's offset you may lose a coon or two but even a 3/8's offset will hold any coyote no problem. Toe catches are usually the fault of the trapper, not the trap. If you are planning on trapping exclusivley coon, a closed jaw trap is probably best, but I believe you will still hold 90% of coons in an offset jaw trap. So the question really becomes, are you coyote and fox trapping with bonus coon, or coon trapping with coyote and fox on the side? My opinion on offset traps may be unpopular, but remember I have used both, and I strongly believe OS traps are superior and are easier on the catch. Like I said, don't take this as me saying I am against closed jaw traps. I am not whatsoever. They have a place on my line and I use exclusivley closed jaw #1's on my marten line, I just prefer offset for larger animals. Also I strongly believe using OS traps is good PR for us trappers, especially when talking to those on the fence or that are not informed on trapping. Explaining to someone that you use an OS jaw trap to minimize stress on the animal shows you being proactive and helps people who may be on the fence about trapping and trappers, that we DO care about our catch weather or not it actually makes a difference. I have trapped a few ranches with dogs, and when you show the landowner an OS jaw trap, explain how it works, and show them how to release a dog, I promise they will be far more likely to let you trap their land. Just my 2 cents.

I think people need to be very careful with how you explain how OS are better for the animal as there is a trap there.

2x

Thanks for all your input

Onyx

Adequate jaw thickness paired with 3/16th offsets with ample power is the combo that is most paw friendly after many years of actual observation with real animals and conditions. The mechanical advantage is real.. The gap of the offsets allow the levers to lock up more efficiently and faster.. We will all be required to use offsets with thick jaws eventually... Lugs don't work..

I agree with all that,Gbus.

I agree with Ted 100 %, strong traps mean fast traps = better catch rate when conditions are not ideal. Remember the coyotes like to run when the weather is crappy, be ready to make catches in any weather. It's not the coyotes you catch it's the coyotes you don't miss.
If you can always check your traps early in the morning you should be good. If you can't check until later you should consider offsets.
Imo offsets lock up without bone breakage, braking bones is a huge no no if that animal is in the trap for any length of time. They really fight a trap after daylight because they are in the wide open.

The more they fight the more damage they do to themselves.

Thanks everyone for their input

In some ways I expected the difference in opinion. Like what is the best deer rifle, or the best make/model of pickup.

I looked through the bmp reccomendations and have sought out some advice, looked at catologs, etc. Even the bmp recommendations seem vague.

For someone with limited experience I guess I will just have to try a couple of different things and decide what works for me.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.

Onyx

IMO regular jaws are not going to break anymore bones than an offset,why would it?Laminated or not is what decides that.

Constant pressure and the pressure building everytime the animal jumps.

Here is question for you , did Glen Sterling make any canine traps that weren't off set?

I must have coons with some big feets because I've never had one yank out of an offset trap.

Constant pressure and the pressure building everytime the animal jumps.

Here is question for you , did Glen Sterling make any canine traps that weren't off set? [/quote]


Have you or anyone else ever measured the pressure difference between OS and reg jaws. People say OS have less, I say the opposite based on phsyics

All I’ve used so far are offsets. My experience is different than everyone else’s. I’m now trying regular jaws to see if I have the same experiences.
My opinion is the offset gives wiggle room. Not enough to lose critters, but enough to cause damage. And that’s everything from possums to coyotes. Not every time, but enough times to really notice.

Canebrake, I have seen coon caught by the front foot get out of a offset trap. Back foot is a different story usually not going anywhere.

There should be no wiggle room.The foot shouldn't move.Now it is impossible to design one gap that will work for every land dwelling furbearer,across the country.A coyote trap should be geared toward coyote. I find the offset gap on,as an example the MB550,ideal for coyotes,red fox and bobcats.That is exactly what I got them for.I get the least damage of any trap I have used,for those animals mentioned.It isn't a coon trap but I hold most- not all.There are much better coon and gray fox traps.

The MB650 does pretty well too.There are many others.You have to gear your offset to your most targeted animals.Don't expect a good coyote trap to work well for coons and skunks,etc.That's just the way it is.Also,an offset with with sharp edges won't work well either.Dress those up a bit.

If you have too much gap most can be reduced by a few file strokes on the jaw gapping lugs.Go slow.With some traps it doesn't take a lot.

^^^^^:good post, spot on imo

As far as pressure on the foot, Glen did a great presentation in Iowa on that subject. Not easy to explain why .

If the offset's jaw lugs meet and I have many pictures where they do,all pressure stops.Otherwise it doesn't.That is why the gap is important to be right for your target animal.It will never work the same for all size animals.

As far as broken bones,it has nothing to do with closed or offset.It also has nothing to do with laminations.Those can reduce cutting and distribute pressure.Nothing to do with broken bones.If you are getting broken bones you are doing something wrong.Lack of good swiveling can be a contributor as can a very heavy trap on a too small an animal,especially those with fragile bones like rabbit or gray fox.

It can also happen with a trap that has too much gap and is very heavy.An example is a coyote in a well laminated MB750 and a 3/8" gap. (Too much gap) for this unintended catch.

A lot of this is common sense guys.Experience is a good teacher.

In about 5 min the foot swells up and then you have added pressure. So in my opinion there isn't any advantage between the offset or the closed jaw trap.

When I trapped live market fox and coyotes the only thing that made a difference was INSIDE LAMINATION.
The other thing you don't understand Is the un seen damage these bigger 4 coiled offset jawed traps inflect. That may not be a issue when fur trapping but for live market animals or your domestic non target critters it's not a good thing.
I have some info from the coyotes study but I'm not going to post It here.
I was told most long line coyote trappers use offset traps because some states mandate them.

The notion that an offset trap provides any more comfort to an animal is pure myth; there is JUST as much steel touching the paw on an offset jaw as there is on a regular jaw trap -- yet I've continually heard offsets described as being more "humane" because "they don't clamp down on a paw as hard." Bull malarkey. People aren't actually looking at what the trap is doing if they believe such nonsense... a paw would have to be LESS than 3/16" thick for that statement to be true.

The ONLY consideration that is even remotely noteworthy of discussion is when people say an offset allows the levers to come up higher for greater holding power; however, if you think logically through this argument for OS traps as well, each lever is only coming up an additional 3/32 of an inch -- hardly enough to really allow for any discernible difference in compression.

It has always been my theory that a quick-witted trap maker was either ingenious in his ability to produce an alternate solution to the PETA-type libtards who wished to limit foothold trapping, or he simply stumbled upon the idea by mistake and was able to pass it off as "more comfortable and humane" trapping method. Either way, I'm glad it's allowed more people to continue trapping and being able to pass on our great heritage to future generations.

So there's really no pros to offsets whatsoever, but the big con to me is allowing a toe-caught animal to escape. Yes, I know there are many pictures of animals being held by a toe in offsets, but there's just as many stories of empty catch circles where a toe-caught critter once was. Why take the chance if you don't have to?

I like offset because they leave less of a blister when I get my fingers caught in them!

Are your fingers less than 3/16" of an inch thick?

Unless you get your finger caught in the corner of the offset....

[quote=Greg / MO]The notion that an offset trap provides any more comfort to an animal is pure myth; there is JUST as much steel touching the paw on an offset jaw as there is on a regular jaw trap -- yet I've continually heard offsets described as being more "humane" because "they don't clamp down on a paw as hard." Bull malarkey. People aren't actually looking at what the trap is doing if they believe such nonsense... a paw would have to be LESS than 3/16" thick for that statement to be true.

The ONLY consideration that is even remotely noteworthy of discussion is when people say an offset allows the levers to come up higher for greater holding power; however, if you think logically through this argument for OS traps as well, each lever is only coming up an additional 3/32 of an inch -- hardly enough to really allow for any discernible difference in compression.

It has always been my theory that a quick-witted trap maker was either ingenious in his ability to produce an alternate solution to the PETA-type libtards who wished to limit foothold trapping, or he simply stumbled upon the idea by mistake and was able to pass it off as "more comfortable
and humane" trapping method. Either way, I'm glad it's allowed more people to continue trapping and being able to pass on our great heritage to future generations.

So there's really no pros to offsets whatsoever, but the big con to me is allowing a toe-caught animal to escape. Yes, I know there are many pictures of animals being held by a toe in offsets, but there's just as many stories of empty catch circles where a toe-caught critter once was. Why take the chance if you don't have to? [/quot]

SPOT ON,!!!,

My bridger dogless #2 off sets had no problem holding a toe caught coyote. The problem I had was the2 toes stayed the coyote didn't. I think the problem was the coyotes pulled harder than the strength of its toes. I'm not saying a toe cought coyote may not escape an off set. I am saying my off set held longer than the coyotes foot. No fault of the trap it got away.

I have had a few coons pull out of them.

You can blame some of the toe caught animals on traps that are center swiveled and a offset In this situation Is even worse. The first initial pull when the critter Is caught Is going to have that foot sliding In the trap. In a closed jaw trap that Is less likely to happen And If the trap Is swiveled from the end of the frame that foot Is going to be pulled Into the tightest part of the trap. In my opinion that will give you less toe caught critters.

I agree with some of that but not all.I believe the foot slides most of the time,on the Initial lunges.Otherwise,the foot pad would be flat on the pan when you get there.Now understand,I am only talking about cats and canines in this discussion.

I know when I get a catch where the jaws are against the back of the heel pad,that the footlikely slid some.No big deal.That is exactly what I want.The heel pad is a stop for the jaws and the jaws are across 4 phalanges that have multiple tendons on top and bottom.Those Phalanges are about 1/4" thick on coyotes and cats-perfect for a well designed offset.Couple that with non-sharp jaw edges that can't cut skin and tendons and a center swivel that doesn't encourage sliding.and you have the formula for right behind the heel pad catches that don't slide.

Toe catches come mostly from low or no pan tension .This can be coupled with an oversize pan or a sloppy dog that slides forward when the pan is depressed,giving the animal more time in his lung to get away and cats and canines are lightning fast when that trap. Fires or in some cases,starts to.

Another point I will make is that most States are studying the APHIS reports and are gradually shifting that way.I mentioned before,some stares have already mandated offset jaws.Here in Mo ntana we are mandated to have center swiveling on land traps.We are all going to get there if we live long enough.They have also been trying for a jaw thickness requirement and we will eventually get there to.Any new traps I buy will have these features .Again,I am only referring to traps for canines and cats.If you are in mountain lion country you will have almost all toe catches on them (stepping on jaw and pan at the same time).There reaction time isn't as lightning fast as a bobcat.

I will add,bobcat toes and feet are more flexible than canines and if toe caught in an offset jaw trap,some can pull out.That is why tuning is important.Good pan tension and little slop at the dog eye,plus proper guiding should remedy most or all of those toe catches.

My belief as well. The only two situations where an offset is any advantage is in states where they are required by law (ignorant) or maybe if you caught a bird it maybe wouldn't hurt their foot as bad, maybe!

Occasionally the forming of the offset will increase the surface area where it touches the foot, this will decrease their holding ability as well. Wide jaw faces disperse the pressure of the jaws on the foot.

I don't think the offset levers rising higher in actual use helps at all. In theory maybe but in practice I doubt it highly. If the levers and jaws are designed correctly the levers will lock up and hold the animal just as well in regular jawed traps.

When it comes to foot injury the live market trappers are the ones I listen too. Theories go out the window when the money is on the line.

I will disagree with the levers locking up,ADC.If the closed jaw levers are against the stop with no foot in,they will be noticeably lower with a foot in.I have posted plenty of pictures of bobcat and coyote feet in offset jaw traps where the levers were against the stop or at least within 1/16" of it.There is a noticeable difference.

Often my MB550s bind up so tight at the top that I can't break them loose by hand,though I set them by hand.I may be old but my grip isn't completely gone yet.I'm only talking about cats,red fox and coyotes.I have yet to see any evidence of sliding.

For 60 years,I have both jaw styles with pretty good results,but now only use offsets for the above mentioned animals.Of the offset jawed traps I have used,the MB550 has shown the least .Foot damage.Some others have shown improvement after doctoring the jaw edges to have the same radius as the MB550s and a similar gap.

I have no experience with the closed jaw MB550's.It would be interesting to run a side by side comparison.I bet they would hold their own with any closed jaw trap.

I do know that one of our members here that I respect,reports more foot damage(on red fox) with his MB550's than his cast jaw MB650's.I stated I had just the opposite result.We determined he was using closed jaw MB550's and mine were offset.He was catching 4 or 5 fox per season and I was taking 12 to 20.Just an example.I don't know if it means anything.

I trapped the SC live market for 15 years we only had coyotes In the last 2 years of that time. So our catch was mostly reds and greys. Reds bringing $100.00 and greys bringing $25.00 If you could find a market.
My go to trap was the 1.75 Duke I removed the larger pan and went to a round pan that was quite a bit smaller. I started out with outside laminations I still had some foot damage but It wasn't much but I did have some fox rejected because of It. So the next year I Inside laminated my traps and that for the most part took care of 95% of the damage. But There Isn't a trap In the world that Is going to give you no foot damage.
I had 3 swivels In those short chains and I did one other thing to some of those traps. Instead of hooking up to the J hook In the hole at the end of the trap frame I welded a chain link to the end of the frame and let It stick out about a 1/2". That allowed me to hook up my chain with a J hook to that chain link. The reason I did this Is because That J hook In the trap frame was always clogging up and In some case stopped every bit of swivel action at that point. The chain link addition pretty much solved that swiveling problem. That small hole was the culprit.
And I never used a offset jawed trap in the live market. Been there done It guys.

Hey everybody. I didn't mean to start an arguement just looking for some advice.
I trapped some when I was a kid, and I trapped some when my kid was a kid. Now just hoping to do a little trapping, and have some fun, when I am nearing retirement

Anyhow thanks for all your posts.

I guess part of the fun is figuring it out for yourself.

There are some people that wish they could have trapped for a living. Then there are some people that did trap for a living. I just want to have a little fun in my, I hate to admit, in my senior years. Better than going to Vegas.

Thanks again for all your input,

Onyx

That is totally different from fur trapping and has very little beating on holding power of the traps. If you want to sell the feet them you have to use equipment that will be easier on the animal, however easier on the foot means less holing ability. It's science not speculation. Try a simple test, put your finger in a fully modified trap with wide smooth jaws and center swiveled , when you try to pull your finger out you want it in the top center of the jaw and the wide jaws are smooth and easier to pull out of. Now put that finger in a regular jaw trap and pull it out by pulling your finger to the side of the trap down into the corner where the jaws are even tighter. I know which one I'd rather try to pull my finger out of.

That said, obviously modified traps still hold well enough to not lose your catches.

Just because the lever rises higher doesn't mean its not locked up on the levers that are slightly lower. Close a trap down as tight as it would be on the critters foot then see if you can pull the jaws back open. If the trap is designed correctly you will not be able to open them.

Hey everyone. Let us stop bickering.

Let us this enjoy our sport.

It is a thin line between sport and financial return.

When I was young venison, small game, and fish meant food.

When I bought my first turkey tag I realized that Turkey hunting was a sport because I could buy a butterball for less than the cost of my license,

This was a real eye opener got me.

Let us this have fun and respect each other's opinions.

Onyx

I agree 100%, well said

Its OK Onyx. We're all adults. These guys are entitled to their wrong opinions. lol We're entitled to point it out. lol

I am enjoying my sport and don't need everyone to agree with me.Just pointing out my observations.It's all good.I don't think we were bickering.That is my wrong opinion.

Everyone has different experiences...it’s how I learn. I enjoy posts like this.

It does have me curious on what to do with my bridger #2s. They are all offset which I would rather have regular jaws. I would like to base plate and center swivel them but The Beav pointed out that center swiveling offset jaws allows toe caught coyotes to get away. I may just laminate the jaws to help with that issue.

I've only caught one coyote in a closed jaw trap (modified #2 Bridger) but I remember that coyote's foot was swollen way more than 99% of the ones I catch in offsets. Maybe it was coincidence.

Laminations provide more comfort to the animal with the initial hit when the trap jaws close on the foot. It just spreads out that power and lessens then hit. Same with those nice wide cast jaws.
But They don't In my opinion hold better then a regular squared off jaw face so lets back up a bit. Now If you laminate with round stock you lessen the holding power to a point. If you laminate with square stock It helps your traps holding power.
Here's a example. Take a pencil and hold It as tight as you can against your finger that is placed on a hard surface. Then try and pull your finger out. Then do the same thing with the edge of a ruler. So If you increase that square edge you have more surface against the foot so your going to increase your holding power and Increase comfort to a point. . But remember this It's still all about the square edges.
But the bottom line Is this, If you get a catch above the pad on a fox coyote or cat It's not going to pull out because of the shape of the foot. In most cases that also pertains to a good solid pad catch but here Is when the square edges shine.

Well that's my thought on the subject.

T-Rex.I don't want t beat this to death anymore but laminating will not increase holding power it distributes pressure in hopes of mitigating any damage.Nothing wrong with laminating.It just won't do what you are wanting.If you want no or few toe catches,set a good pan tension for your target species,crimp the eye of the dog so it doesn't creep forward with the pan.Pan creep is like creep in a rifle trigger or a boxer telegraphing a punch.I have always been able to deal with creep in a rifle trigger but a coyote won't put up with it.You need a crisp,sudden break.

Cats and coyotes are lightning fast and sometimes when they walk up,on solid ground and then step on a spot that drops,if it isn't a fast,clean break,they can pull back faster than you would think.This can cause toe catches or one lunge pullouts.so learn how to adjust those traps,bed them solidly,guide when you can and don't worry about toe catches.I don't think toe catches are as common as you may be thinking and some times you can do everything right and still get one.

Now if you want a closed jaw trap,consider taking one trap and put a few file strokes on the lugs that create the offset.Don't get too crazy on the first one.Even if you get the gap to 1/8",it will work the same as a closed jaw.You can get them down to a closed jaw but keep an eye on the step that stops the lever.Some may be too shallow to take it all the way to the closed position.Just tinker with one trap and see.

If you end up with an uneven gap,that can be fixed.Say the middle touches but there is still some gaps at the ends,put a steel rod in the tightest spot and use a vice to squeeze in those gaps.This is easier than it sounds.If you have a slight gap in the center but the ends are closed put a rod in both tight spots and use the vice to squeeze in the middle.

You can also replace jaws on many traps for not too much money.Anyway,learn to adjust those traps and I don't think you will have many toe catches.Good luck with it.

I think a lot of this depends on your trap check frequency. All these guys trapping for the live market are mostly running a 24 hour check. With that type of check time and as long as you don't use oversized traps the closed jaws hold tight without any wiggle room and prevent damage. With 48-72 hour checks you are going to get some badly swollen feet in closed jaw traps from restriction of circulation, and frozen feet in cold weather.

Now personally I like to check my canine (coyote and wolf) traps every three days to keep human scent and disturbance down around them. I'm a houndman and not only do I hunt where I trap, but other people do to, so I'm very concious of the consequences if you catch a dog. Usually a hound won't be in a trap that long before the owner comes along and lets them out, because they have tracking collars on them. Still, I'm using large powerful traps (even my coyote traps I want to hold a wolf, because most areas I set could reasonably have a wolf come through and I don't want them to get pinched and pull out) so I run all offsets. I've never had a broken bone on a coyote or wolf, and I've had my dogs caught in a number of traps over the years. Always someone else's traps, I've never caught my own in my own traps amazingly enough. I've never had one hurt, and they"ve been caught in both offset and regular jawed traps, but never a closed jawed trap over a #3 and I know one dog spent an hour or two in a closed jawed #3 before I got there to release her and her foot was already swelled up. No long term damage, but if she would have spent the night there her foot would have froze. Old guy I hunted with as a kid had a three legged hound, froze it's foot off in a trap, that was before we had tracking collars. I'd personally be leery of a closed jawed trap in the #4 1/2 to #5 range or even larger doing permanent damage to either bones or in particular ligaments. So in my opinion running the big traps, even those big coyote traps like MB 650s, NOBS, etc. that are equivalent to #4 or even a powerful #3 I would opt for offset jaws.

Laminated or cast do seem to do less damage also, can't really say how much difference in holding power they have, although they do strengthen up a jaw so if you pinch something big like a wolf or lion they don't bend them as easily.

Taxi gives great advice from real life experience with real animals with extended checks. I've done a lot of experimenting with offset gap size for various species. Overall 3/16th work best for yotes and fox with 3/8th to 1/2 jaw thickness. Slippage is caused by not enough spring power balanced to the jaw thickness or the trap design itself. That's from thousands off animals trapped, even dogs and cats. Do this ounce, stick 3 fingers in a closed jaw 4 coil trap then an offset . You'll answer your own question.

Lamed jaws or cast, Cast no contest... Reason more actual contact.. and cast isn't smooth, the casting makes the surface rough..

Raccoon are a whole different deal, long chains help a bunch but every coon reacts different. My favorite dry coon trap is the old Monty 1.5 rj with ground 1/8th offsets. Or the MB450 offset long chained.

Carry on

I am glad you guys are enjoying this. I was feeling like I had started an on line arguement. Figured I just as well could have asked what the best rifle calibre for whitetail deer is. Yes I have an opinion on that. Lol.

For whatever it is worth, probably not much, I personally know three very good trappers here in Wisconsin. One uses a 1 3/4 or 2, 4 coiled, laminated, and offset as much as anything for PR. The other two use Bridger #3 and MB 650, 4 coiled, laminated, offset. Not so much for holding power as for "catch area"

Here in Wisconsin we have a 24 hour check law on non drowning sets.

I get the idea of a bigger catch area and I get the PR idea.

I think I will try to have fun figuring out what works for me.

I’ve caught a few toe caught coyotes and cats in offsets. And as far as I can tell I’ve had one maybe two pullouts that could have been coyotes. Both times to big of guiding was to blame...larger than needed sticks was also caught in the trap, hence the loss.

I just picked up a few offsets. My thoughts is that I would use them in the later part of the season. Most of my canine trap are outside laminated and closed jaws because maybe a incidental coon in the late season. The offsets I just got will be laminated also. Seems like a little more holding surface. The offsets will probably be used mainly for coyote and cats probably with chains and drags added.

Happy that most of my trapping life was spent before the internet unless things really turn around i'll have caught way more coyote with my # 2 vic square jaws then i'll ever catch with my new double laminated baseplated center swiveled offset 4 coiled dogless high levered pit- panned nite-latched power bedded # 3's

Before your keyboards overheat and lockup I used B&Ls too same trap just nobody complained about them CARRY ON

onxy, do not worry about starting an argument. I do not think you can ask any question on here and not start an argument. Just a few of the topics that I have seen sink into the mud on here were:

Coilspring vs Longspring
Coyote vs bobcat vs fox urine
Ford vs Chevy
Lure vs Bait
Auto loader vs pump
I'm pretty sure we could argue about which direction the sun comes up from!

Welcome aboard and good luck! BTW I use and have caught and lost animals with both regular jaws and offset jaws.

I appreciate everyone's input

Onyx

I am a big believer in offset jaws with laminations. I also use drags and too many times I have to wake a cat up because they are napping when I get there. I harvest all mature males but turn kittens and wet sows loose and I take pride watching them mobilize with obviously no paw or shoulder issues (my rig includes shock springs.)

There is another senerio where I get to observe the effects (or lack of). Its usually sheep dogs. They roam at night and I catch them. If I know where they came from I load them up and drive then back to their owners. I love seeing them Trott down the driveway with zero foot or shoulder issues.


Here is what i can tell you. My rig works perfectly for coyotes and cats and probably wolf sized paws. The great pyrenees get huge. My rig leaves something to be desired on coons. I've experimented with rubber jaws and as nice as the Jake's are they are simply so heavy I can cause shoulder or leg issues.

Nothing is perfect except Gods love. That's my 2 cents.

From what I've seen rubber jaws are the worst out there if the animal is in the trap for any extended time. They actually form and press around the foot like tourniquet and cut off blood flow to the the foot.

That may be true,for an "extended period".But most states nowdays have 24 hr. checks.

Im not saying I am a rubber jaw guy but they will have me a coon that the big ol #3 offsets turned out on me (and yes I am a 24 hr guy)

Thanks again for your input

Onyx