Testing 330s for their magnetic field

The first 11 or 12 years that I trapped for beaver and otter I only used Victor and BMI traps. Mainly Victor. I learned when setting the traps exposed to lay a two or 3 inch diameter stick in front of the trap on each side where the animal can’t see the Outline of the trap as he aproachs. The animals would not avoid the set and I caught hundreds of beavers and otters that way each year. I shared in my trappintales video.I live in Georgia and the closest place to buy supplies was a long way away. So I bought cheaper traps when I replaced the 330s. The cheap replacements were about 1 inch shorter they were a little harder for me to set by hand. I used them as I would victors. I soon learned that the animals coming down those runs sometimes avoided my set. So for the next several years I always use Victor traps in situations like that because I thought the bigger opening was what was solving the problem.
Many years later when I started testing traps for magnetic fields I learned that the victor traps radiate it off the top just like the cheaper traps but there was a big difference. The victor trap had a reduced magnetic field going through the center of the trap. The cheaper trap made in China or Korea had a high magnetic field induction going to the center of the trap. That told me that what was happening with the cheaper trap was that the animal was seeing the higher induction of the field and avoiding to set. That further gave me a reason to understand magnetic fields in cage traps and snares. It was a very learning experience. That’s why I have confidence in what I’ve learned at least one of the ways are reasons to believe and understand.

i have wonderd if magnitism could efect that. i also have heard of that some ttaps give off harmonics or vibrations and that the animals can hear or sence them.

Didn't we beat this horse already?

I read an article recently on dogs using magnetic fields to find their way back, in places they had never been before.

https://phys.org/news/2016-02-magnetoreception-molecule-eyes-dogs-primates.html

This site has the most information. At the end of it there’s a link you can click on that actually list animals that can see the magnetic field

Star date: 8/4......
Beam him up.

Yep know critters can SEE magnetic wave lengths. They must have hired that guy that talks to animals to get the critters point of view. LOL

Normally I wouldn't advocate this kind of teasing, but this guy deserves every bit of it. I tried a constructive conversation, but it just goes to "read my book for $19.99" hahaha!

I wouldn't normally respond like that either but this magnetic field stuff Is just to far out In left field for me.
If a critter refuses to go through your snare or body grip It's because It either sees It of smells It or finds It to be something out of place.
Same goes for that perfect dirt set with the perfect bait and lure combo.
Until we can communicate with animals we will never know how they react to certain things.

I couldn't have said it better myself. Entirely too many variables to blame magnetic fields.

And both of you are smart enough to know without a doubt that a magnetic field can not possibly have any affect on animal behavior????? Lots of things in this world that I do not understand but just because I do not understand it does not mean that it does not exist.

There are lots of cases where animal behavior has been scientifically proven to use tools that we can not see.

I will agree that there are lots of factors involved in animal behavior and that makes it difficult to establish the scientific proof but it does not disprove it either.

I never claimed that he is incorrect, I have my doubts. The way I look at it, a person brought to light a "problem" and is profiting off of the "solution". That is snake oil in my opinion.

Looks like to me you are making light of the fact that the man is trying to profit from his lifetime of experience. You even referred to it as teasing.

Your words.......



Kirk has posted a lot of info on this website and I believe he is a well respected member of the trapping community. How you perceive him and the ideas he has shared is up to you.

I never brought his credibility as a trapper into question. I was questioning/criticizing his testing methods. Forget the subject matter. I feel it is immoral to profit of of a solution to a problem he made up. PERIOD. I'm sure he's a great guy, with more trapping experience than I'll receive in my life. At the end of the day the subject matter is very illogical. Using experience and observation is a small portion of a scientific study. I'm done talking about the subject now. Have a great day

Test case.

A beaver or maybe an otter Is swimming under water In an established run. It all of a sudden detects this magnetic field being emitted from the 330. The beaver thinks there Is a magnetic field here there must be a 330 In this run. Does the beaver or otter put on the brakes and turn around because of It?

One year I spent 2 months trapping beaver In SC with a friend. We took 387 beaver and 48 otter. Just think If we would have de magnetized those 330s we may have caught 500 beaver.
There may be a magnetic field but I don't think It's going to effect your catch where It's going to be all that big of a deal.

I know at least one coyote that uses magnetism to his advantage

Must affect old bucks as well. Had a few come down the trail upwind and suddenly stop and turn and never make it to one of my shooting lanes.
Ducks have to be the worse. I can’t tell you how many flocks have been given “just one more pass” and then fly off and never hit the dekes.
That magnetic field is pure evil on animals.

It's the gun barrel that Is giving off signals. LOL

The thing that I find funny about all of this is that he had a thread on this subject and a very lengthy one at that, about a month ago and people eventually moved on and all of a sudden he posts this thread to bring it back up. I could understand if someone else did but he did, seems to me he's just trying to promote his book again to get more book purchases , and that's fine, if he can make money off of this book than more power to him but I do think there's a forum for pedaling your own stuff. Jmo

Beav The third sentence in my post refers to exposed Conibears. The first sentence in the chapter on Conibears in my book states that they should be best set underwater to hide the Projected magnetic field.
If you’re gonna make fun, maybe you should make fun of what I actually said and what I meant.

Ouch! Poor dead horse! LOL!

So if you don't think Kirk has any possible sense, how come I can take 2 cage traps (different makers) baited identical 5 feet apart in a shed and one will out catch the other hands down? He shares much information on here, whether or not you choose to try it or dismiss it as Hocus pocus I believe he deserves some respect which has really gone down hill on here. Dead horses get beat up on trapper talk.

I'd say because the animal decided to walk into one over the other. The rest is just a guess.

I would classify this hypothesis into the Deer Whistle category, I believe with attentive driving and defensive driving you stand a better chance of not hitting deer than installing an ultrasonic whistle on your bumper. But for those that did and have not hit a deer – they work like a charm. Setting on sign with a well-tuned trap, well bedded or placed has served some of the best trappers for decades. I’m also certain no coon would ever pass up a free meal because you had a metal garbage placed can at the end of your driveway.

OP, how are you measuring the magnetic field of the 330?

Well, I checked all mine with a magnet. And sure enough, every last one of them was attracted to it. No wonder my catch has been off!

He uses a magnetometer phone app. You can search for for a free one on your phone.

I believe Kirk's studies have merit but there are a lot of factors that have to come into play for the field to matter. Depending on your method of trapping, the age of the animal, the kind of animal, soil conditions, and the area you live all make a difference. Knowing some of this may give you an advantage in certain situations or weather conditions.

Is there a book I could buy that would help explain this?

https://www.amazon.com/OUTDOORSMANS...924457acbbbc0f5d60794&language=en_US

All I will say is I've tested this theory on coyotes and I'm not done testing. Which is more than some keyboard experts on here have. The trouble I see is, that when one is happy with their trapping skills they think they have it all figured out and become numb to other ideas. I feel very comfortable to say a bedded trap influences how coyotes work a set the majority of the time.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy."

I was wondering when he would get the chance to plug his book he has for sale .

he WAS asked...

I’ve got a HEX suit and that thing is wicked good. I sometimes just wear it and sit feet away from my coyote sets and literally watch them get caught. I’ve also killed a pile of deer with a knife while using it.

Were can I get one of those suits?

Kirk's book on this topic is not about selling a solution to the magnetic field vs traps phenomenon. Its an in-depth explanation about what he has discovered. You, the trapper, after reading the book, can make your own decisions or any changes to your equipment.

Kirk is the most critical thinker I've ever met. Where most of us just shrug off thoughts or ideas Kirk breaks em down and expands on em.

Btw, he has killed mind-boggling numbers of beaver and otter. And engineered several models of the slickest mechanical, spring-loaded door cage traps made.

I think Kirk deserves credit for killing ‘mind-boggling’ numbers of beaver...period. That can happen with a tremendous work ethic and a good population.

However, I’d like to play devil’s advocate on the magnetic theory. Let’s say an animal really has the ability to sense a magnetic field. At some point in it’s life, it needs to have associated the intensified magnetic field with danger. In other words, even if it can detect a magnetic field, it has to have already had a near death experience around one in order to associate it with danger. I believe the vast majority of inexperienced animals fall to their first close encounter to a trap.

I’ll be the first to admit that ‘trap shy’ animals appear to have a sixth sense. But I think it is more an individual animal’s disposition of being paranoid to new things in their environment. In most cases I believe this happens by a near miss experience but it is also possibly an inherited trait. I have a hard time believing that the majority population of any species associates a magnetic field with danger...even if they can detect the field.

You mean after BUYING his book and reading you can make your decisions on equipment, like I said earlier he's only posting on this subject to sell his book and since he started another thread on this subject I can only assume they are not selling. As for all the animals he has trapped , I don't see anyone arguing that but it's not like other trappers in this country haven't caught as Many or more then him without worrying about magnetic fields.

I like "outside-the-box" thinking; so I bought the book.

I don't believe Kirk ever said "the majority population of any species associates a magnetic field with danger". I could be wrong, but I don't think he said that.

what I remember is the idea that SOME individuals will choose another route if they detect a spike in magnetism in one path, versus another.

have you ever visited a place and thought :"man, something just doesn't FEEL right about that place."? You didn't say, "I think there's danger there"

...I think it's the same kind of deal.

Its not hard to test the affects of a bedded trap in front of a dirt hole.
Two holes about 1 1/2' apart, the best bait you have that makes them dig and stand back and watch what happens(i did dig a trap bed on the hole without a trap and packed it just like I would with a trap). I've put out 15 sets like this and will do another 15 hopefully in the next month or so when it cools down a little. Ive put in over 300 test sets without a trap and it seemed obvious that coyotes were much more comfortable working a set without a bedded trap than with a bedded trap present.

How much Magnetic field is in a wire fence ?
How about a broken off plow shear or disk burryed in a frield?

How much is in a snare ?

here is another scenario for you.
If you lived in town and you saw footprints in fresh snow walking down the sidewalk would it alarm you?
If those footprints walked from the sidewalk to your vehicle parked in your driveway,then around it, then to your house, around it and stopping at every window and door would it send up yellow flags?
So are you alarmed when you see footprints in the snow?

Had one coyote dig up a bedded trap that had the springs deactivated and carry it off 30 yds, and by the sign left, played with it for some time. Was he cautious of when it was buried but curious when he uncovered it? Possible in my opinion. Out of 15 test sets I've yet to have one bed dug at that i made and repacked without a trap in it.

I mean logic tells me obviously they know there’s a trap there. Anyone that thinks they can disguise the scent of a trap when a dog can smell a dead body weeks after it’s been there is kidding themselves. I’ll be the devils advocate. Can’t the coyote just smell the metal of the trap and have nothing to do with a magnetic field?

From testing so far it is a possibility. I do not have the information from testing to lead me to speculate on how it detects its there.

A good test may be to make a set and bed a non-ferrous metal item in a trap bed. Then make another set with nothing but dirt in the bed and see if there's any adverse reaction to the bedded non-ferrous metal. You could also do the test of a set with a trap bed containing a non-ferrous metal item in it and a bedded trap in a set next to that one.

Good idea. I told myself I'd do 30 the first way to get a large enough for a sample to feel confident in any pattern I was seeing then move forward from there depending on my findings. I wish I was smart enough to find a way to lower the magnetic field of a regular trap to next to nothing so that all variables were the exact same except the magnetic fields.

No...thats not what I mean. His book explains what he's researched and found. For those interested, reading his research will save time in learning about the topic...same as with any methods book.

Kirk has shared a lot of trapping info on Tman over the years.

I dont recall seeing Huntall76 sharing any useable trapping knowledge...correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct in your assessment. It is a learned trait from close encounters. A lot of factors come into play for the field to matter in certain situations but having the knowledge may give you the edge with educated ones.

Coyotes are born with a strong sense of caution/ fear (just listen to the stories of the couple of guys on here who have or have had coyotes for pets), can be taught caution/ fear by their parents (ive read 2 different accounts of this from guys that spent their lifetime making a living controling coyotes) and can learn caution/ fear from first hand experiences.

I agree Yes sir. But from what I understand it's sill a learned trait from close encounters. So if the parents teach them it's still a learned trait. In my opinion, I don't think a lot of this is passed on to the pups unless coyotes are being pursued, controlled (trapped/snared) through the rearing season. Then they learn from the parents. But if they aren't being pursued through the rearing season there's not as many danger opportunities to pass on, so when they disperse they are vulnerable to sets.

You read all of my posts? I'm honored. Not once did I question his trapping ability or knowledge. Do I believe this magnetic field thing, no I do not. Do I believe he's plugging his book yes I do, and just because you don't think any of my post about trapping related subjects are knowledgeable doesn't bother me, it's your opinion, just like what I said is my opinion. Didn't mean to hurt your feelings.

You made remarks that Kirk was just selling his book and then put his information down because you dont believe it.

I see his posts as him putting information out what he has discovered.

You havent hurt my feelings as I dont recall anything you've posted on here to share trapping knowledge or ideas, but I may have overlooked it.

I mostly dont understand why someone would deride someone for presenting info on trapping.

I bet when the dirthole set was first presented...that guy was riduculed too.

Open minds......

Anyone ever try and make two set .1 without anything the first. Then put a magnet in the other

Ok. Won't open this thread again and good day to you sir.

I'll test few magnetics buried and see what happens.

So a beaver is going to tell the difference between a 330 and a fence posr magnetic field? There is so much iron junk laying around that the possibilities of an animal telling the difference is preposterous.
Even if the theory is correct.
just

Kirk knows I am not sold on this, But he also knows I will test the heck out of his theory to make it work. Yes make it work, not test to just see or test to prove it does not work!!!! If it works I learned something and can use. If it does not pan out Then I know I did every thing to see if it works and can say it does not work or it works in this situation and not in that one. And I still learned something. Not to help him, but in fact to help me in my business (I have this same mindset for testing new baits and lures or new products)

Animals do get trap shy and trap smart or as beav says in the case as foot traps. set shy and set smart. (there is a difference between shy and smart) In my business of ADC/Wildlife control I can see the reasons most times for refusal. and that is learned behavior. But some times I can see what I call inner caution and sometimes I cant tell you why that animal is behaving a certain way and refusing a trap or set. I can see these things mostly because I am dealing with an animal or family group on a daily basis and observing their actions and my customers are filling me in on what is going on when I am not there. But If fur trapping or doing ADC on a 1000 acres these behaviors will not be seen easily by me or the person trapping most likely.

Any one that has raised horses and cattle knows that the electric fence is a great tool to keep them in the pasture, but only after they learned that thing hurts when touched. We also have seen them smell the hot wire from an inch away and not touch it???????. And every one that uses electric fence knows that if the fence goes dead in time the cows and horses are pushing on the fence. Now I don't know if current is the same as EMF as far as emitting out from the metal? I don't know if they can smell it or see it or how they know it is hot and not hot but they do. So I can only assume that animals can detect EMF also.

Now here is where this ole redneck start to wonder, if animals will test the fence that hurt when touched on a regular basis and after when not hot will push on it, why would a animal refuse a magnetic field that I assume does not hurt at all and they learned no harm comes from it? And why would it have a negative effect on some animals yet others use it to migrate or as in the example of the fox that is more successful when pouncing mice on a certain magnetic direction orientation? As far as a foot traps maybe a EMF from the trap may cause a curiosity to dig it up?

I have been testing on cages. and snares that I am setting daily in the business and have some thoughts, I will be testing DP traps both standard set and advanced system, cages and snares this fur season to see if the critters that live in 1000 acres and very little EMF emissions react differently than the city critters that are use to EMF emitting from everything.

Jonesie

Here's something to think on...... take the same cattle that seem to be able to sense when the electric fence is off and get out fairly quickly, shut fence off and try to herd them through the fence. 99.9 % of the time you cant. Shut it off lower it to the ground and try to herd them over it, it can still be very challenging most of the time. Only explanation I can even touch on is the mind set of the animals in each situation influencing there reaction.

Cautious/ nervous/ alert animals can sometimes have completely different reactions to the same stimulus than they would during situations when they are at ease.

Only thing I really target or test on is coyotes most of the time and between whatever human scent, sometimes the unnatural situation of the set, the unfamiliarness of the odor or strength of odor, and probably a few other "yellow flags" we as humans can't see, I think a majority of coyotes come into a set with a cautios mind set.

If i ask you if you were scared of a gun you answer would totally be dependent on the situation.

Just some food for thought from a trapper that has more questions than answers

Jonsie

In dealing with traps you’re not really measuring EMF. You’re measuring the difference between the average induction of the earth and the changed it may make. If the induction increases that’s negative negative response it will get. If the induction decreases It’s a positive response.
In my book I don’t talk about EMF until about the 3/4 end of the book. That’s when I start relating it to humans and it’s effects on humans and animals. I then go on to show how all forms of contamination radiation and other forms affects humans to cause cancer.
No where in the book do I refer to or talk about magnets or the word magnet.

Kirk De I have been playing with a magnet around different traps.
I didn't start out to find anything, I was messing with camping gear, and I sat my compass beside a trap and unlike what normally happens the south end was attracted to the trap.
I have no results until fur season
But I do know, that a compass does one thing to an out of the box trap
And a different thing to a trap welded with a negative charge flux core welder
Further updates next year

Buy the book , it's cheap. Then you can learn how and why... Coyotes are the most adaptable animals on the planet. The steel fence post is not buried in front of an attractor or in a beaver run. The yotes I've witnessed always scratch at the dog or the frame where the jaws attach. In warmer weather mostly. Iv'e had summer beaver leave the run to go around a 330 more than a few times. I'll be testing more this fur season, maybe I won't share...... Eyes wide open , glass half full.. The Tesla app is free on your smart phone!