When an animal gets pinched, its initial reaction is to pull out like crazy. I believe coyotes are good at this. What are some ways to prevent pullouts? Some of my thoughts are a faster trap (strong springs) in dry sifted dirt(not heavy) somewhat of some pan tension, step down sets if possible, no slippery material on trap jaws like wax or icy grass/leaves, possibly bigger traps. Am I on the right track?
Good bedding and add to the pan tension for a start a lot of folks think a light trigger will get them more and it often gets you less of what you want and more of what you don’t want really.
Good bedding and add to the pan tension for a start a lot of folks think a light trigger will get them more and it often gets you less of what you want and more of what you don’t want really.
"No slippery material on trap jaws like wax" Wax is not letting them pull out easier IMO, but it is making your traps a little faster and protecting them
I've had traps In the dirt for at least 60 years. And I'm hear to tell you I've had more pull outs then I can count. I must be doing something wrong.
Does that mean more than you can count on your fingers and toes?? Think that has anything to do with your only using 2 coil traps??
Wv, you are on the right track. You should be able to stop a good caught coyote 100%. Toe caught coyotes are a different story especially with offset jaws. You will eventually have a toe caught coyote escape from an offset. If you are checking your traps every morning you shouldn't need offsets. Just make sure your jaws edges are not sharp. Sharp edges are a big no no. If pull outs are a problem with a pad catch than your springs are too weak or you have a lever lock up problem or both. Remember you dont need to go 4 coil you can use 3 springs to get the right amount of speed, power and lock up for your situation. I'm sure I'll get a chance to add to this. Lol
Could be deer setting the traps off always look for tracks in the trap area. With the MJs 4 coils and wide offset cast jaws I have held lunging yotes by just 2 pads. Many things can cause a miss my biggest issue here is snow and ice on top of the trap causing it to fire early when pressure is applied.
I had some trail cameras on some of my traps this season and definetly realize now how many deer trip a trap. That said, I remember a couple occasions at least where the trap chain was stretched tight out of the bed. I can't 100% tell you I missed coyotes, but possibly believe I had a few misses. So if a person could dial in a set up where they go from catching 4 out 5 coyotes a season to 5 out 5, wouldn't they want to?
I've had traps In the dirt for at least 60 years. And I'm hear to tell you I've had more pull outs then I can count. I must be doing something wrong.
Does that mean more than you can count on your fingers and toes?? Think that has anything to do with your only using 2 coil traps??
Wv, you are on the right track. You should be able to stop a good caught coyote 100%. Toe caught coyotes are a different story especially with offset jaws. You will eventually have a toe caught coyote escape from an offset. If you are checking your traps every morning you shouldn't need offsets. Just make sure your jaws edges are not sharp. Sharp edges are a big no no. If pull outs are a problem with a pad catch than your springs are too weak or you have a lever lock up problem or both. Remember you dont need to go 4 coil you can use 3 springs to get the right amount of speed, power
and lock up for your situation. I'm sure I'll get a chance to add to this. Lol
To the list in the first post add, properly tuned traps. I've read of certain traps not needing tuned but not seen them.
Far as pan tension I've been up and down that hill. Heavy at the work bench can turn into too much in fall winter conditions for me. I like just a little.
You are asking the right questions and getting good replies.
Beav, with a good quality properly sized and tuned trap, and the right spring strength for my conditions and being a pad catch or higher, i can say no i have not had a pull out from a coyote. Can't say the same about toe catches, have held a lot but have lost some also.
But RP do you actually know That It was a pull out due to It being a toe catch. If your not there to witness It you don't really know now do you.
I'm just stirring the pot. When I did the coyotes study I used #2 single sprung Duke #2s.I never had a PULL OUT but I did have a few snapped traps just laying In the trap bed.. But since there was no catch circle I wouldn't consider them to be pull outs.
That's a valid point to a degree. I would answer that by stating that of the hundreds of coyotes i have caught i have never had a coyote that was caught well ever escape when i drove up to them or took pics or anything else. But i have had some coyotes get away when pulling up to them and seeing they were toe caught and not getting them shot soon enough. So I'm calling it an experienced educated guess for lack of better terminology. Just so you know I'm stirring the pot also incase that wasn't already obvious. Lol
Also, you said you have not had a pull out with the 2 coiled dukes. I would say you were using a good trap that was properly tuned and the spring strength was sufficient for for your conditions. When you say you've had many pull outs I'm assuming your talking back in the day you were using a trap that was not right, ( as stated above ) for the conditions you were trapping in?
Pretty much during My live market days when you trying to maintain good feet. And not having the right traps at the time. But no matter what, pull outs are part of the game and you can't completely rule them out. Murphy's law comes In to play here.
I had some trail cameras on some of my traps this season and definetly realize now how many deer trip a trap. That said, I remember a couple occasions at least where the trap chain was stretched tight out of the bed. I can't 100% tell you I missed coyotes, but possibly believe I had a few misses. So if a person could dial in a set up where they go from catching 4 out 5 coyotes a season to 5 out 5, wouldn't they want to?
The guy in the video had a perfect opportunity to show how to level the jaws on that trap. Maybe ha has it on another video??
Imo the best way to level the jaws is with a welder placing a small bead on the levers so it pushes the levers down farther to make the trap level. If the weld is too high file or grind it off till your level.
Second best is to bend the levers. The problem with twisting the lvers is over time and use the levers can spring back to a point you may have to do it again.
Its the stock chain length that comes with the mb 550s. Not long. Wolfang anchors until it gets the cable buried.
I have not heard anyone say they had to modify stock 550’s besides adjusting pan tension. Maybe adding a shock spring in the chain. I talked to a guy that used to do trap research for the government trappers recently. He mentioned that the spring gave a tiny amount of extra time for the traps to close when a coyote jumps after setting off the trap on a short chain. It was tiny fractions of a second, but he said it made a difference based on high speed films... I use short chains, but have not tested springs on them. I don’t get many pull outs, but occasionally I get a snapped trap I can’t figure out. Maybe I should try inline springs. Mine are usually deer though.
Four coiling and waxing them will also speed them up slightly, but if they are already stiff with 2 coils, id save 4 coiling till last... I don’t use the mb traps, so I do not know how stout they are 2 coiled. I trap in freezing temps so I 4 coil most of my coyote traps that are not already super stout.
You will always have some mysteriously snapped traps. Weird things happen when you set enough traps.
Limited experience here, but I get to trap about 7 months out of the year. I run stock 2 coiled MB550’s, both offset and regular jaws, with 12” Super Stakes. I’m getting away from the offsets due to foot damage and even trying out some regular jaw 450’s this year. I don’t trap in snow or even dirt most of the time so tracks are hard to distinguish unless it’s deer. Yes deer trip traps, and for the fun of it it seems! I can’t recall but one where I was positive it was a coyote on a pullout. With that being said, are you sure you’re getting pullouts or chew outs? Greys and coons will chew out and you’ll think it’s a pullout, one of the reasons I’m trying the 450’s. I have held a coyote by one toe before in an offset. Held a bobcat by two toes before. Generally with the 550’s any bigger predator that we have is always there. While we don’t deal with snow or freezing temps, we do deal with clay. Clay isn’t bad, until it heats up. Those times aren’t pullouts, it’s flat out misses because the trap never fired!! I’ve had to chisel and trap out before. The pan would depress, but the jaws were basically welded open. What I’ve learned down here is our caught critters will fight a trap when caught, but quickly settle down...until it get daylight. Once that sun comes up and they ain’t home or where they’re supposed to be, then they are heck bent on getting out of the predicament they’re in. I tried checking traps later in the mornings or around lunchtime, but that was resulting in chew outs, but not from coyotes or cats. Those critters would turn to buzzard bait if never checked. Be sure of what your missing and if it is actually a pullout. A test you can do is snap two fingers in that 550 and see if you can pull them out. I’m betting the trap holds.
Yep a coyotes comes into your set on the crawl and you catch It by leg and you have pull out. You may even have a catch circle But for the most part you won't know what happened. Just a small chunk of hard dirt or a small pebble caught between the jaw hinges Is going to leave those jaws open a bit. And that for sure Is going to cause a pull out. And that little bit of debris may fall out once the coyote makes it's escape. But you won't know what has happened. And when using offsets you could have a 1" offset and your not going to catch many coyotes If that's the case.
Yep a coyotes comes into your set on the crawl and you catch It by leg and you have pull out. You may even have a catch circle But for the most part you won't know what happened. Just a small chunk of hard dirt or a small pebble caught between the jaw hinges Is going to leave those jaws open a bit. And that for sure Is going to cause a pull out. And that little bit of debris may fall out once the coyote makes it's escape. But you won't know what has happened. And when using offsets you could have a 1" offset and your not going to catch many coyotes If that's the case.
Oh, let me clarify, YES by all means I’ve had that happen!! I’ve even had the pebble/stick still in the jaws, lol. I count that as stupidity on my part, not a pullout. The trap does its job if I don’t screw it up somehow.
Good thing that that toe was pulled Into the tightness part of the offset. If It would have been dead center you might not have got that picture.
No doubt about that, lol. I will say this, most all of my toe catches have been after rains and traps buried in the dirt. Not sure if that has anything to do with it or not.
I set a trap with a tight pan, to tight for my liking but I already had it anchored with a Wolf fang so l left it in. The issue was not would it fire but the catch it made ended up to be higher then I liked it to be. That trap will get adjusted before it goes out next season.
I've ran MB550 4 coiled offsets with 18 inches of chain to the anchor for 7 seasons now. Had one pull his toe off out of 300 plus yotes 2 years ago. 2.5 pan tension on all. Zero pullouts, zero! Zero empty sprung traps too except for deer. Witch is a good thing.. Lost one this year in a 650 tho, reason I think any way is the 1/4 inch offset is to big for yotes and the trap was bedded to deep. There's is a huge mechanical advantage to 4 coiling, more even pressure to both jaws, quicker lock up, just to name a couple. I've held a few by the elbow even.
Remember this, paw can't move , paw can't get cut.... as long as the jaws are thick enough to displace the energy and there's no sharp edges with enough power to support that. Trust me, there's a lot more to trap design than most think..
Yep a coyotes comes into your set on the crawl and you catch It by leg and you have pull out. You may even have a catch circle But for the most part you won't know what happened. Just a small chunk of hard dirt or a small pebble caught between the jaw hinges Is going to leave those jaws open a bit. And that for sure Is going to cause a pull out. And that little bit of debris may fall out once the coyote makes it's escape. But you won't know what has happened. And when using offsets you could have a 1" offset and your not going to catch many coyotes If that's the case.
I'm with wanna be on this, what you explained is a lock up failure not a pull out.
Wv, yes almost any trap will work as long as you take the time to set them up right. Remember, it's not the brand of traps your using as much as it the way you set them up.
Also wv you are smart to use good light soil for bedding and covering your trap even if you have to bring it in to the set. These guys bedding their traps in clay gumbo type of soil is asking for trouble. This is a huge deal that doesn't come up very often. It's very refreshing to see you bring this issue up, you are most definitely on the right track. Good luck and thanks for taking the time and asking the questions to get you on the right path. Oh and take anything beav says with a grain of salt!!
So four coiling seems like one answer. Is there a place for the 650s , duke or mb?
A lot of guys that catch a lot of coyotes run this size of traps. In fact it seems to me the majority of the guys that catch hundreds of coyotes or make their living catching coyotes run 3 size traps. Especially were they just catch coyotes.
Not an expert videographer, but here’s a video that shows what may produce a toe catch, pullout, or miss. You figure the dirt hole had 4+” of rain on it and a lot of dirt flowed over the trap itself. The feathers were all on the top side so the entire set had flowing/standing water. The first set was initially a true Pipe Dream set, but buried it after the fox was caught. Already went through 3 screens, lol. https://youtu.be/RavqBapLg_w
You done good. You done real good. The performance of your traps were fine after that much rain. I hope folks can see how much the rain and wet soil slowed those trap just a little and that was light sandy soil. Those traps would catch and hold. Now try that in clay gumbo heavy soil, you will find the results are lackluster at best unless you have powered up to meet the conditions if that is even possible. I always like enough chain so the animal can make the initial jump to get the trap dug in on the paw and lock it in place before they start lunging. And making them step between the jaws insread of over them.
You done good. You done real good. The performance of your traps were fine after that much rain. I hope folks can see how much the rain and wet soil slowed those trap just a little and that was light sandy soil. Those traps would catch and hold. Now try that in clay gumbo heavy soil, you will find the results are lackluster at best unless you have powered up to meet the conditions if that is even possible. I always like enough chain so the animal can make the initial jump to get the trap dug in on the paw and lock it in place before they start lunging. And making them step between the jaws insread of over them.
Thanks. Most of my sets use screen covering. Seems I catch more in our wet weather down here with those sets whether they be the actual Pipe Dream set, flat sets, or scent post sets. Then again it might just be the fact they are blended better. I was just using that to go along with the fact that most of my toe catches and possible pullouts are with dirt type sets and after a heavy rain. We can’t seem to get showers or a little rain. The last few storms that rolled through have dumped 2-4” of rain every single time. The traps weren’t covered with that much dirt initially, just water pushing dirt over them. I was just impressed with the equipment being 2 coiled and still performing. 90% of my sets out now are screen covered.
Not an expert videographer, but here’s a video that shows what may produce a toe catch, pullout, or miss. You figure the dirt hole had 4+” of rain on it and a lot of dirt flowed over the trap itself. The feathers were all on the top side so the entire set had flowing/standing water. The first set was initially a true Pipe Dream set, but buried it after the fox was caught. Already went through 3 screens, lol. https://youtu.be/RavqBapLg_w
You done good. You done real good. The performance of your traps were fine after that much rain. I hope folks can see how much the rain and wet soil slowed those trap just a little and that was light sandy soil. Those traps would catch and hold. Now try that in clay gumbo heavy soil, you will find the results are lackluster at best unless you have powered up to meet the conditions if that is even possible. I always like enough chain so the animal can make the initial jump to get the trap dug in on the paw and lock it in place before they start lunging. And making them step between the jaws insread of over them.
Thanks. Most of my sets use screen covering. Seems I catch more in our wet weather down here with those sets whether they be the actual Pipe Dream set, flat sets, or scent post sets. Then again it might just be the fact they are blended better. I was just using that to go along with the fact that most of my toe catches and possible pullouts are with dirt type sets and after a heavy rain. We can’t seem to get showers or a little rain. The last few storms that rolled through have dumped 2-4” of rain every single time. The traps weren’t covered with that much dirt initially, just water pushing dirt over them. I was just impressed with the equipment being 2 coiled and still performing. 90% of my sets out now are screen covered.
If it were me here on out i would add some extra insurance as in go 3 or 4 coil. It would help speed those traps in the mud some and help with better lockup. Coyotes can be unbelievably fast and will show you every weak spot in your system then leave you with an empty set mumbling unpleasant words under your breath.
I’ll be honest, I don’t have a clue. I don’t have many pullouts in all honesty. Not with coyotes or cats that I can tell anyways. I’ll lose a grey or coon to chew outs. Most pics or video shows the coyote and cats jumping straight up. I would think a short chain would lock that foot down immediately when they hit the end of the chain. I’ve just always figured less chain equals less momentum. When training a dog at heel you use a short leash so he can’t get momentum to get ahead of you. A longer leash will allow him not only to get ahead of you but enough momentum to pull you along. I may be all wrong in my thinking as I’m still learning, but so far it works for me in the areas I trap. Here’s the issue with all our rain...dirt holes I’ll reset anyways. That much rain and all scent is either gone or scattered all up and down the road, ground, buried, etc...the video was just to see if they would fire. Wet weather and dirt holes just don’t work for me down here. I have about 25 sets out now and zero dirt hole sets.
If your traps are strong then proper pan tension and solid bedding will prevent 99.9% of pull outs. I very, very rarely have a pull out, maybe one every other season at the most, and it’s always because I didn’t take the time to readjust the pan tension on a trap after a catch.
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