Canines, how careful do you need to be

How many guys use a ground cloth when setting for canines in order to cut down on human scent?
How many use gloves for setting canine traps?


I realize the human scent or as one of my old instructors called it, you aura, has been discussed many times.

Just curious as to what different trappers think and how they do things.

I know lots of guys do not even place human scent on the radar, as another instructor of mine said.
Others are a bit careful, but not much thought is given to being scent free or attempting to keep it down.

Old school guys used to be paranoid about scent.

Steeltraps posts got me to thinking about this the other evening when he mentioned he used a ground cloth.

Thanks for any responses.

Mac

I use gloves to keep my hands from being beat up. Also kneel on a gardeners kneeling pad to keep my knees dry in wet conditions or from getting beat up on hard rocky ground. I don’t worry about scent so much, it’s always going to be there everything clean down to the wax or w.e you choose to coat a trap with to protect it gives off a odor that just wasn’t naturally there. I just worry more about be on location and getting in making the set and getting out as quick as I can.

I wear gloves for setting, different gloves to apply bait.
Kneel on garbage to keep knees dry, and wear knee hi rubber boots.
Set with clean tools, check traps only not settings new traps.

Like the others posted, I wear gloves to keep my hands from getting beat up any worse than what they are now and use different gloves or bare handed to apply bait and lure. Got a good pair of knee pads to save my knees and a good pair of muck boots to keep my feet warm and dry. Not that human scent doesn't matter as I know I can't eliminate it but I do try minimize it somewhat. I wax and dye my traps to help keep them in good working order and not so much to minimize my scent. I feel a good lure or bait will over ride caution and make them work my sets.

I wear gloves just to protect my hands. Got knee pads for rocks and keeping dry. Our winters don’t get like they do up North so it’s very rare I’m not sweating while setting traps. I don’t trap high K9 areas, so I can’t say if what I’m doing is wrong or not. I don’t have sandy soil to see tracks to tell if I’m being ignored or rejected. I try and keep traps clean and not spend an exorbitant amount of time setting. All my sets can be driven to close enough to see if a deer has tripped the trap or not, so no human scent left from checking. All but one property has daily travel and human scent left around at one point or another along the line. Working properties are just that way, especially now during burn season. I picked up a coyote last Sunday on a set that had been sitting unmolested for 2 solid weeks, and she came in sometime during the daylight hours. She wasn’t there that morning check, but was waiting on me when I went to the pond that evening. I would love to find a property with a high coyote population and see what actually works and what doesn’t. Right now it’s sit and wait until one passes through and hope you’re on point.

Kneel pad, dipped gloves cotton backs, rubber boots in and out as quick I can be.

X2

For me gloves & kneeling pad just for comfort. Solidly bedded traps are the main thing in trapping

That's an interesting topic and you will get an argument on either side, that will always be debated.
The thing is , no one has ever set a coyote down , asked it a question and got an answer, so it's all speculation. . .

That said : I haven't noticed where coyotes shy away from human scent that much and the reason is I 'bait' all my areas where I trap predators.
I do it in advance and try to keep it baited all season long, I say " try ", because that's not always possible, but then I have access to a lot of bait, and I mean by the truck and trailer full.

Coyotes are quick to figure out 'what's going on' and they are also quick to take advantage of it.
Coyotes (and foxes) are opportunist and are just as much a scavenger at times, as they are a predator.
They know humans are bring in those scraps. How else would they get there ? Drop out of the sky ?

As far as knelling cloths, gloves etc. , I seldom use anything to knell on, unless it's wet and when it's sloppy wet, as it often is here, I use a truck mud flap, which works real well.
I can't squat very long, like I once could. Age has caught up with me and knelling is just easier.
O'Gorman once said 'he didn't have scent pads on his knees' and that made a lot of sense to me, as I figured I didn't either. . .
But, I hate mud and being wet and muddy.
Mark Zagger might like mud, but I'm not a fan , so in wet weather, I use a mud flap, not to keep a coyote from detecting me, just to keep me dry.

Gloves, I use them and everything from cloth, to leather to those you find in most auto parts shops that fit real snug are my favorite.
They protect my hands and that's the reason I use them.
Footwear, usually a leather boot, unless again, it's wet and then a rubber boot. I don't like to have wet feet all day long.

I don't take a lot of precautions to avoid 'leaving scent' , as coyotes know I've been there anyway.
Most snares I set bare handed.
I try to keep my hands clean of all bait odors, gas, etc.
I don't smoke , so that isn't a problem and while tobacco users certainly have an odor to them, I'm not sure animals pay it any mind.
Maybe some do. I know a lot of smokers that catch a lot of fur.

Cotton gloves and a kneeling pad is what I use. Been thinking about switching to knee pads. Muscle memory making a dirt hole, in and out.

I wear hip boot for kneeling and fold them down after the set is made

I concur with LT GREY's comments.

That would be a first. . .

With semi urban yotes around me they smell people all the time. Human scent is a matter of how strong it is. Human scent has been around many many meals for a yote. Garbage, house cat, gut piles etc. It’s tolerated. Strong human scent is something to be worried about. My biggest catches are usually on a waterway or ditch that leads right into town. If I was trapping wilderness yotes I would probably be more careful. Most of the stuff I wear or use ( gloves , knee pad , boots etc) is for my comfort not the yotes nose. He knows your there just try and leave the least amount of scent you can and get out. That way the scent is weaker thus building his confidence. This is the reason I feel the third night is so good. Your scent has dissipated every day but the lure and bait still stink.

Same

I use a tarp because I want to catch a coyote 15 mins after I have left the trap set. I have done this a few times already. I agree with LTGREY , their is nothing 1 can do to keep coyotes from smelling you. Slim one said = Its foolish for 1 to believe that their is ANY we can do to fool the coyotes nose completely = When a blood hound or resuce dog can pick up a humans trail 3 days latter. And a coyote smells better than a blood hound . But on the other hand , some people catch lots of coyotes with No ground cloth no gloves or anything else. So people are so scent crazy and parinod that they would wear a scent suit rubber boots rubber glove inside a bubble IF they could! LOL! So where in the middle is where I land. I like the tarp = because it makes flat sets cleaner. And has increased my first night catches over the past 4 years by 25% or more. Do I use a tarp always? NOPE, never used it in West Texas. But in Alabama? yep , every set .

Good post Mac
I’ll throw this out for thought...around here it seems to depend on the overall population.
Example...when we had coyotes literally every where...I often checked sets at lunch wearing my
school contaminated shoes and clothing and caught coyotes after making remakes in that wardrobe.
That same year remake sets caught lots of doubles and triples. This year coyote population was sparse
and it seemed that the coyote was on edge. I had to use setting cloth and ultra clean traps. About that...
I usually clean up my gear by knocking the crud off then snapping my trap off and clean out my spring holes. If the trap made a catch or shows rust bad it gets washed down and then dipped in PBTD.
If the trap didn’t make catch or is fairly clean I just wire brush it off and adjust pan tension and put it in the
trap storage box. I caught a hundred twice using these methods with very few issues.
Just my thoughts...

Anything I wear on the line is weather dependent. There was a time where I wore cotton or leather gloves for setting and a separate pit of rubber gloves for bait and lure but I quit that and never went back. Can’t say there’s a bit of difference.

My setup has evolved over time.
Clean rubber gloves or clean leather gloves to set.
Brown jersey gloves for bait, lure, and urine.
Other gloves for driving atv or side by side.
Now I wear nice knee pads to kneel down.
Leather boots unless sloppy out then rubber.
I am in and out so fast plus by now on autopilot that sometimes I don’t remember what I did. Just kidding about not remembering.

I really appreciate all the responses. Thanks to all that posted.

Mac

I set all MJ traps for K-9s and many for cats for less time spent at the set the one hand setters are the ticket, just lay everything out and kneel once and your done and back in the truck.

I set bare handed. Catch as many coyotes as I wanna Skin.. You wont beat a K-9 Nose... In and out fast is the best solution. With good bait on location. Short of having Skunk on your hands doesnt matter imo . You think your Gloves dont have any kind of Scent on the Material LOL.

I know most don't use anything and set bare handed. I have as well. Forgot my gloves one day this year and the bare handed sets did just as well as the gloved sets. However, I kind of figure why not try to minimize my scent? I am not paranoid about it but usually wear gloves and I am careful when handling traps when making wax dirt, dipping, waxing, etc.as well. Doesn't cost me any time or extra effort so I just figure why not, sure can't hurt.

I use gloves to protect me but I avoid leather gloves. Leather absorbs and holds odor much more than gloves made of other material. I avoid leather boots for the same reason.

I am also a firm believer that most scent contamination around sets that cause refusals is caused by carelessness or folks not thinking about things like wearing the same shoes on the trap line and at the gas station. Every time you fuel up, you are most likely standing where someone has spilled fuel. Wear those same shoes on the line, you stink up the area around the trap. Same with gas nozzles, get gas or diesel smell on your hands and cross contaminate traps.

I do not believe these unnatural scents disburse as quickly as human odor.

I use a tarp and gloves.

A tarp can have a huge impact on your first night catch percentage.

I believe that the amount of pressure coyotes have been under often dictates what you can and can’t get away with as far a scent is concerned. The same applies with sets and smells.

You may be able to throw caution to the wind in an area that’s seen little to no pressure. In some places you might be able to bare hand your traps and set all dirt holes with the same bait or lure at every location. It’s easy to fool the kindergarten class.

Try those same tactics on high pressure ground and you will have created a coyote amusement park with free admission. Sloppy trapping creates educated coyotes.

You often times see trappers scoff at scent control. I’ve noticed that for the most part these folks move from location to location.

Skimming the cream and ADC trapping are two different animals with two different approaches.

I always hear the mantra “coyotes know you have been there”. If that was the case a hound with a much better nose than any coyote would be able to cold trail an animal days after it has passed. The best blood tracking dogs rarely work a trail after 24 hours.

As for the scent issue, I believe a strong human odor presents an immediate danger. A faint odor represents that a threat was in the area, but has long since gone. The strong odor is a red light. A faint odor is a caution light.

It's kind of like deer hunting. When I started I was kind of clueless about scent. I eventually went total paranoid crazy about scent control. I'm now somewhere and realistically in between.

Gloves, kneeling pad, rubber boots and different gloves for bait and lure.

This is an interesting discussion.

A bllood hound can track a man for Days after a man has passed. Everyone that knows coyotes = Know there is Nothing you can do to keep your scent from them. Now the amount. Thats a different story. Their NOTHING you can so to keep a coyote from nowing you were their. Now. A faint smell. The coyote may tolerate. Hence the drop cloth may help with first night catches

There are some folks in my neck of the woods that find deer a long time after 24 hours even after a hard rain. These dogs do it enough that I would not consider it rare by any means. Every situation is different and 24 hours may be a good rough number but is certainly not absolute.

Really appreciate all the great posts.

Mac

I don't claim to be a great coyote trapper, but I do wear gloves when setting. Don't want lure on the trap or the trap bed. Other than that, I don't like to put my knees on the ground cause it's usually wet, so I squat, but that's getting more uncomfortable than it used to be. Some fox are skittish, some aren't. I would like to trap in a real dense population sometime to see if there is a difference. I think the biggest issue for me is traps dirtied by non-target catches. I had a set that caught coon this year dug up multiple times, probably by a grey fox, no matter where I put the trap. I should have put a fresh set in with a fresh trap, but I didn't. And if you think about it, your gloves carry that non-target animal smell onto all your new sets too. Grays love to dig. It's not usually an issue with reds.

Hip boots to keep dry,warmand for briar prection.
Gloves if its cold.But I take them off when setting traps or snares.
In-Out fast as I can. Gloves slow this down.

While it’s true that you can’t avoid human scent contamination, I have found that simply trying to keep other foreign scent like lure or bait off the trap itself is important. That is the best reason to wear gloves. Either wear them when baiting or when planting the trap or different gloves for both. This keeps the focus on the post, hole or wherever you put the scent on purpose and never on the trap. It’s a simple precaution that is not onerous. As usual though, any evidence is purely anecdotal.

I don't live in an area that's void of humans. Quite the opposite. I don't give scent anymore concern than the color of underwear I put on. Speed and repetition have been the ticket to success for me.

Gloves to keep my hands from getting any worse then they already are in the winter and a pad to keep my knees from screaming. Neither of which are used for scent purposes. I use the same gloves I filled up the gas mower with in the summer.

That’s interesting QBD.

I know a couple of South Texas houndsmen that are as good as they get around these parts. They run between sixty to one hundred tracks each during a season.
I draw my conclusions from their expert opinions on canines and scent. There is a lot a coyote trapper can learn from these folks.

Just this morning I happened to speak with one of those men. He said he has only run a few tracks twenty-four hours or more. He went on to say for the most part he avoids taking up any trail over twenty-four hours. This year his top dog was successful on a trail that was 36 hours old. That is his oldest track to date. To give you an idea of the dog’s credentials, the owner was recently offered 30K for the hound and turned it down.

The point being, if a good hound often struggles with a blood trail outside twenty-four hours, then a coyote with less scenting capabilities is not likely to pick up on human scent within a smaller time frame.

Tejas,
I am a houndman and I can tell you it all depends on conditions. I've seen when they couldn't trail an hour old track, and other times when conditions were right I've seen them sail out of there on a two day old track like it was red hot. But if you talk to those houndmen they will tell you that a good cold nosed dog will be able to smell places where the animal has been, particularly where they peed or laid up for days oftentimes. They can't trail it, the scent of the track itself has long since faded, but where the cat peed on a bush or laid up they can still smell. Same will go for coyotes, wolves, or I'm assuming fox. Here I notice that canines don't tend to be too bothered by human scent on the logging roads, but if you get off them much they get a lot more leery. I wear gloves for scent when setting canine traps, and use other gloves for lure or bait. I'm not too anal about scent, and wear leather boots, same ones I drive with and fill up at the gas station, etc. But they are trotting down my snowmobile trail, fourwheeler tracks, or truck tracks, they expect to smell those smells there. I'm not as fast as I should be setting traps, but I believe spending less time at a set is probably more helpful than trying to be scentfree and spending more time there. Still thin skintight gloves don't slow me down much and I'm sure help with scent. I'm not going to keep them from knowing tI was there the first couple nights, but I'd rather they didn't smell any stronger scent where the trap is than other places, or have scent linger on the trap while it has dissapated everywhere else.
Frankly wolves and coyotes both may not be back around for quite a while, a week or two for coyotes and possibly a month for wolves, so it is probably a lot more important to keep from reapplying human scent every trap check than it is to try and be scentfree when you set them.

And it depends on the type of human scent also. Heck I use my own urine to freshen up pee posts for wolves at times, and then think how it might be asinine that I make sure and use clean gloves when setting the trap, but again I don't want them to smell the trap itself, they should be smelling the attractant whether it be bait, lure or urine, not sniffing and paying attention to the trap bed.

Again, I must say a lot of good trappers have taken time to share their thoughts, and I appreciate it.
Very interesting to hear some of these trappers share information about hounds and trailing.
Very good information.
Thanks

Mac

i use whatever I have no real precautions on what smell I leave behind. Leather gloves, sometimes insulated sometimes not.

Bare hands at times in nice weather, wear gloves for keeping my hands from getting wet and too beat up over several months. Fingers get real sore at times from cracking so try to keep them in good shape.

I wear slip on rubber boots mainly in the later part of the season to keep my feet and legs somewhat dry. Dry weather short Gore-Tex hiker type boots when the weather is still mild. They are more comfortable then rubber boots.

Always have used some type of kneeling for comfort and knee protection.

Never worried about odor much except on equipment/traps and transfer contamination of lure and bait on things that could cause issues for you.

Years ago I think all of us old timers were ingrained with human odor paranoia until we learned it didn't matter much in most cases..

Many times I have had to relieve myself in the field. Just walked a piece away to a clear spot to keep from squatting on something uncomfortable and went about my business as usual. Caught fox, coyotes and cats at every such location. I took note of these spots to see what if any effect it would have on my catch. No worries.. Not a good idea to be too close to your catch circle.

I’d like to throw a question out for the guys that wear gloves. Are you using the same gloves for setting new sets out as you use for remakes? Think about that for a second regarding odors. That should also be considered regarding boots ....are you changing your boots when you’re making a fresh set AFTER you’ve just made a remake set. I like using a setting cloth/canvas but that can be also considered in my above questions....do you use a different setting cloth/canvas for remakes vs new sets? What about a skunk catch? We can drive ourselves crazy thinking about trying to stay scent free...

That's what drove me to just not worry about it mchewk. Mho rather than take any extra time trying to please myself im doing everything possible to reduce scent an use that time for extra sets. More sets equal more fur! No matter how careful each was set made.

I definitely agree with the part in bold.

The rest, I do not pay much attention to. New sets or remakes done the same way for me, same gloves, same tools, same pad, same shoes, etc..... And I firmly believe that a skunk catch improves the odds of catching a canine or cat.

I use my bait/lure gloves to make remakes, but yes I wear the same boots the whole time. It boils down to I don't want them smelling or paying attention to the trap, the rest of it I'm not as concerned with. So I try and be careful about keeping my clean gloves clean. I've seen guys carry two sifters, one for new sets and one for remakes. Too much hassle and equipment for me, most of my trapping is off fourwheeler or snowmachine, so a little more premium on space than if I was out of a truck. I don't sift bloody dirt when making a remake, I either use clean waxed dirt, dirt I pick up away from the catch circle, or simply cover by hand with duff, needles, grass etc. Honestly a lot of my sets are in snow, so I either let them snow over if it is snowing or supposed to, or failing that lightly drift some snow over with a shovel. Sifted or handled snow freezes, sometimes not as bad if you carefully skim up some with a shovel and then slide it off on the trap, but letting it snow over naturally is the ideal.

Same here. Gloves for lure and remakes and gloves for clean sets. It’s not hard to keep the trap clean. I also use clean waxed dirt for remakes. It seems silly to dirty up the sifter with remake dirt and then make clean flat sets all blended in with them.

This snip from BC2’s post sums up MChewk’s question well.

I don’t pull a dirty trap and stick it in clean ground. I wouldn’t use the same set of gloves I just used to pull a big stinking male out of a catch circle and remake the set only to turn around and bed a clean trap with those same gloves at a new location. To me that would be akin to hitting a clean trap with urine then bedding it in fresh ground.

I use clean gloves and a tarp on every new set

Boots that have been in the catch circle are on a tarp at new sets. The same goes for the kneeling pad.

On remakes I use dirty gloves & a kneeling pad only.

In the end reducing your scent kills more coyotes and teaches less of them.

Educating coyotes drives me crazy; not taking a few extra measures to catch them.

Strong point here. Lower populations will, on the whole, be more
sketchy with approaching anything not top-notch natural. More numbers, more chance-takers and more trap dancers.
More numbers equals more stupidity and more sets worked.
Just look to the cities and their folk. More folks=more stupidity.
They see a foot locker broke open and it's on, meanwhile a broken window in a less populated area gets the attention it needs, which isnt from the yotes or burglars.

Like john ,only reason is I like to stay dry .

I use rubber boots and a kneeling pad for scent control and comfort. Rubber gloves for handle the traps and setting equipment. Cotton gloves for handling bait, lure and urine. Not paranoid but obsessive in keeping traps and setting equipment separate from bait, lures and urine. I do wash all my trapping clothes in scent-eliminating detergent also...

With that all said, years ago I had a well accomplished trapper show me he could take a brand new trap right off the self, set it with his bare hands and catch a fox.

And with that... I still remain "obsessive" with scent control.

I find it interesting how some say they don't worry about scent control but they get in and out as fast as they can, which is the best method of scent control.

It also comes down to speed and efficiency. More traps in the ground. More miles. More animals. If you’re messing around with switching boots, changing gloves, deciding which bag to pull out of your truck, etc. you’ve already lost half the battle.

If a guy only sets 6 traps a day how many coyotes can he catch? I prefer to keep things very simple and fast. Repetition. People that have trapped along side me are blown away how many go in the ground in a day. They can’t catch anything in the back of the truck and that’s a cold hard fact.

Human intrusion is ALWAYS on my radar.

It’s not just scent. Sound pollution, sight.

Coyote population.

Time of year and age of coyote population (an October “pup” and February “pup” are different animals).

Level of exploitation to that population are all important factors as well.

Long and short of it, I don’t care if you have dumbest, most naive, overpopulated hyper competitive young coyotes on the planet, or the most savvy, ultra educated, super exploited old aged coyotes out there. Using common sense measure to minimize human disturbance is NEVER a bad thing.

I once heard the comment that " A trapper can make lots of mistakes but a coyote is only allowed one".
Food for thought.

Lots of great posts.
Mac

I use gloves just to protect my hands. Wear a different pair for baiting, mainly so I'm not getting it on my hands and the steering wheel of my buggy. I wear chaps to protect from wet ground, but still use a kneeling pad because of old wore out knees. Instructors that I've worked with have absolutely no regard for scent control. One of them catches 700+ coyotes a year.

MAC, you and I have talked before about K9 and ODOR. I have used drop cloths in AZ/NM, and like them and in my opinion were of value, same as gloves. As I have gotten older i believe every tool has/had its place on the line. I think the real key is that trapper education as evolved to where most trappers are properly bedding a trap and can apply bait/lure so there are less educated (exposed) animals to poorly made and contaminated sets and patterns. This creates opportunity to test boundries as to what attracts or repels an animal. I have spent more time on scent/odor dispersal and attractant than any other item. In particular getting odor molecules into the wind at a consistent rate. I have noticed no different reactions when wearing sneakers, boots, hip boots, same with gloves and bare hands. i have been using honey based bait as everyone likes sugar, the question has to do with consistent distribution of the odor and how to heat the product. it goes back to LEWIS ECKART and the smokers, Johnny Thorpe was on to it and rightly so. Same goes for the water line, the fact that the water has a more consistent temperature helps. One interesting item is the coyotes like to steel my holders and my best set produced seven reds in two weeks. Take care my friend and will keep you posted
Jim

Thanks for all the great posts. Jim I will give you a holler soon.
Boone, I like your post about "Human intrusion is ALWAYS on my radar."

TEJAS , like your thoughts about keeping the trap clean and about new sets.

I am older than dirt. When I started out if you caught a fox in a dragged trap, you took that trap back to the boiler.
I have listened to guys on some videos say they take the dragged trap and put it back. It just does not make sense to me.

Lots of great posts.

Mac

Imo a drag is to preserve set location,,, but remakes really shine some places some of the time that's a reason to stake some of the time.

Chore gloves to set and I wear hip boots to set. I usually have sets for different species from canines to beaver all in the same area.

Caught this one early this morning. Had to get at it early so i could be home for easter lunch! LoL! Wore gloves to makes set. Different glove to apply urine and lure on flat set. Most importantly I used tarp First night catch. Set trap at 645 pm. Sun down is 630 pm so last set of the day. Was their on this = bald hill at 5 50 am. So less than 12 hrs. Does sent matter??? Well ? Sometimes it does. Some places it Really does. Does it give me more first night catches?? My notes say = YES !