New MB "APLHA'S" *PICS*

Saw this on FB figure some would like to see

Someone at convention had a picture posted of the MTP booth at Nationals with boxes of them.

Yeah Jeff Dunlap did a live stream the other night and apparently they where supposed to have a small number of them for sale there

Still wish they’d come out with a #3 size dog on like that. Never have been a fan of dogless traps

I do like that jaw style though. It’s a great looking trap, not trying to knock it. I just prefer dog on

Anyone know when they are coming out?

Duke 650?

They told me a small number will be for sale at the NTA but not available to order till mid sept.

Wolfy do you have a pic with the pan flipped up so we can see what’s going on with the spring pin?

Bought 2 dozen this morning. I really like the way they look.

Looks to be pushing 6 5/8". That lets PA trappers out.

They look great!

I’ll be buying 4 dozen to play with this year. Wish I knew someone at
the NTA.

I’ve been tempted to order some. It’s just difficult for me to buy them based on the fact that he carbon copied MBs design to try and take business from them. I’m not sure I can support that.

And the mb 650 is a copy of another trap so I guess that makes it fair game without patent protection!

Looks cool, but I have too many 550's to switch over just for a dogless version of the same.

Bigger trap than the 550

I handled one today at the NTA. Looks to be a decent trap, but in my opinion will need baseplated. Not very heavy at all, wonder how they will hold up especially if 4 coiled.

I mean in all honesty people had been wanting what the Duke 650 is for a long time, they just gave people what they wanted

I must have missed these this evening when I swung by their booth. It was a long day of trying to take everything in

What's the price on these

Looks like a nice trap.

I handled one today at the NTA. Looks to be a decent trap, but in my opinion will need baseplated. Not very heavy at all, wonder how they will hold up especially if 4 coiled.

Isnt that the same gusseted frame as a MB 550...only larger? Do 550s need baseplating if 4 coiled? Baseplating those would eliminate being able to dismantle the trap to replace and repair parts.

PA goes by outside jaw spread? I was looking at that as 5 1/2-5 5/8" and thinking it would be better if an inch wider. Of course here are only jaw regs are 9" or smaller inside jaw spread.

Do you ever read these threads and say "great, now I have to buy more traps that I don't really need"?

Maybe I am the only one.

Yes, yes, yes.

Mac

Yup. 6 1/2" measured to the outside of the jaws.

Nail on the head.

If you were worried about the baseplate it would be a simple thing get longer bolts and fab up another chunk of strap steel to bolt on. I think it’s probably unnecessary though.

I ran the the protos 4 coiled for 3 years with up to #2 music wire springs without any distortion. They performed best for me with the standard 550 helpers and JC Conners lightning springs designed for 550s. I used not be a fan off dogless till I used them. Thanks to Rob Caven and Tom Stalker and a bunch of other trappers and of coarse the coyotes, the Alpha is a reality

Its an awsome tool, but Ima a bit partial LOL
Thanks for the interest

I believe the bases are 550 bases. Same size

Yes. Then the wallet and the dozens of traps I haven't used for years for coyotes glare accusingly at me.

Yup, but for some reason the good Lord didn't give me enough brains to say no sometimes lol

Yup Here in NY 5 3/4 inch inside Max on land. 7 1/4 inside Max in water

In terms of "copying" of the mb550..... isn't victor the original creator of the conibear style trap? If so I guess Duke, Bridger, MB, Belisle, LDL, and Sauvageau copied victor. Same thing right?
They are just following in footsteps of success. Copying is another form of flattery.

How is the pricing?

Saw someone say they got a dozen for $279

They quoted me 294.00 for the 4 coil and 269.00 for the two coil when available I’m pretty sure.

Since it's a concern, lets just ask trappergbus, since he seems to have a bunch and be familiar with them and the Caven's. What is the official inside jawspread on these? Are they legal in PA?

Probably beats looking at a phone snapped pic of a tape measure.

Just measured mine with a steel ruler to get an accurate measurement, 5 9/16th inside 6 9/16th outside, 6 3/16th hinge to hinge. I guess the question is how stringent is the PA restriction?
Same frame as the 550, basically the same footprint.
2coil 279.00
4coil 294.00

It really wouldn't take much to grind off a 1/32 of an inch off the top of each jaw. Flap sander and 30 seconds.
But I like dog on traps myself.

That's exacly what i did, took about 2 minutes with a grinder. I took a 16th off the hi point.

Nice trap but is it worth the extra $ over the 550?

Me thinks not.

I picked one up at the national this week. Every bit as well built as the regular MB 550 but I don't think I'll be upgrading anytime soon due to the cost difference. Maybe someday if coyote prices go back up then I might add a few more.

If was buying more coyote traps I'd be take a serious look at them for sure. I prefer the #3 size trap

It does give the user adjustable pan tension. No worries of a bent dog or having to bend to get more or less tension. Pan is set down lower than jaws for a low spot over pan area.

If I could afford to re-tool from the B2 dogless....this is the trap....but they are twice the cost of the B2 dogless......whew!

I’ll probably get 2 dozen love dogless style traps and now one with cast jaws.

With The Alpha dogless system we stretched the pan attachment point as far as we could so there's no dead spot but realize the closer to attachment ( fulcrum point) point the pan tension increases slightly, the further toward the end of the pan it decreases . That's the reason I always set pan tension dead center at 2.5 with a masonry hammer that weighs 2.5#. Its gonna be real hard for a yote to step inside the jaws and not get restrained. With 4 coiled Alphas I can get from 1.5# to over 5# just by turning a screw. If ya live in snow country the extra jaw spread over the 550 is a game changer. You can also bed the Alpha deeper witch can help with detection. The cast jaws have the widest contact surface without lamination in the industry. Factor the costs of modifying other traps in to the equation and the cost of the Alpha is more realistic. The wide jaws will help a bunch for you trappers with extended checks too.


thanks again for the interest

Do they come in regular jaw as well?

No, i asked the young man at the stand and he said no, I asked if they were gonna produce closed jaw and he wasn't sure if they would. It would be nice if they did!

Yep....guilty as charged!!

I like the looks of this trap. I’m also not a fan of the mb 650. I would like to know why the price increase over the 650?

A Loose jaw on them or no loose jaw I can’t see either way?

Loose

Im ordering a dozen duke 650’s. Better deal anyhow

I like the looks of them. I would think with that wide jaw face the 4 coil would make that trap very efficient.

I've got 9 for sale on the trap shed.

Hopefully they have the good steel in the leaver like the mb 550, levers on the bridger coils are thin and weak.

The levers and pans are heavier gauge than the Bridgers or MB 550s. The spring pin is heavier and heat treated also. We left the tab on the free jaw to save cost of another jaw mold and after testing they added support to the free jaw when bedding.

Thanks Wolfdog91 for posting the vid, and thanks for the positive video

yep...missed a major market; by about a 1/16th of an inch or thereabouts. 1/8 inch to be certain.

I agree. Ill probably buy a dozen and grind a 1/16th off the jaws to be legal but with "all of the thought and testing" that I keep hearing went into these im surprised they missed a big trapping state in PA. And why only offset?

Did you test using screen and how were they in mud conditions ? How far below the jaw is the pan tab / notch ?

Handled them at the NTA. Will stick with the Jakes.

Wow! You guys must have game warden’s running around with tape measures and miccrometers in their pockets! LoL! In the south GW aint that picky. Will let 1/8 th in or more slide! Will say = Well its just a coyote. Anyway. Its a nice looking trap! I have 200 MB 550’s. They are a quaility product. I am sure the Alpha will be too!!!

[/quote]
Wow! You guys must have game warden’s running around with tape measures and miccrometers in their pockets! LoL! In the south GW aint that picky. Will let 1/8 th in or more slide! Will say = Well its just a coyote. Anyway. Its a nice looking trap! I have 200 MB 550’s. They are a quaility product. I am sure the Alpha will be too!!! [/quote]
it has nothing to due with them checking you on the line its when someones pet gets caught in a trap and they call in the law thats when the tape measures come out even though you may be in the right to be trapping there usually the pet owner demands action but if your in full compliance of the law or better not your fault

I’m not sweating the 1/16 a flapper disc can fix that in about ten seconds and won’t make the trap look any different if done right or I bet once set if you push in on the jaws there enough wiggle room in the frame eyes where the jaws hook into, that 1/16 of a inch comes into tolerance. Some k9 extremes with that custom ground lamination he puts on them push a 1/16th or more over. Easy fix if you really wanted to try the alpha out in PA.

If the manufacturer publishes dimensions and the published dimensions are within regs I think you would be okay, as long as you don't do any homemade mods that could be construed as changing that. Without manufacturer published dimensions, yeah then it is going to be up to some warden with a pocket tape.

If the picture with the tape doesn't tell you the dimensions then you probably can't read a tape to begin with.

Sorry, when we are talking a 1/16" or less, a lot depends on the guy holding the tape. I can't tell in the picture if the camera is at a bit of an angle or the guy holding it has the tape lip up tight to the jaw or not. Especially on a nonsquare edged jaw like these it is hard enough to tell in person, much less a picture on a computer.

I used to survey and read a tape for a living, I'm perfectly capable, I also know how easy it is for one to be fudged off a little. And if there are official dimensions from the factory, those are what are going to be used to define it as legal or illegal in a state, not some guys picture of a tape measure on the internet.

I looked at them. For the cost, I can't see any reason to choose these over the K.O.

We have the best trap options in the history of the paw hold. The Alpha is just one, there are many. If the Alpha fits your budget and style of trapping and jaw restrictions then its your decision.

For me its an easy decision but Im a bit bias since it was my idea LOL.. They'll be specs posted on The MTP website in September after they build stock.

Any idea where they're made?

Same place as the regular MB 550's are.

Pennock Minnesota... I'm certain!

Happy BDay Gary! Good info on this topic...

Screen slides right in, stiff or soft. 1/8th below jaw. Mud no problem, I have a lot of that here and Rob tested them in wet red clay in Georgia without issues.

Really sounds like a great trap. Hope the sales are where you need them to be. Congratulations!!

Is the tab that the pan sits on rounded or square? If it is square how long does it take for it to become rounded?

The tab is square and its casted in the cast jaw not welded the protos Iv'e used for 3 years show no wear.

Awesome, they sound pretty slick, I guess I'll have to get a few to try.

Coming home from the MTA convention with a dozen to try on cats this winter!

MTP should also sell precut stiff screen for them, or everyone will just go to keg creek, OG, graham or no bs

Thanks, please keep us posted

I picked one up last weekend at the NTA convention to look over and play with. Grabbed 5 more this weekend at the MTA convention as I really like the way they handle in the shop. I plan on dying and waxing them soon so I can make a few trial sets to see if they are as good as I think they will be. Probably not going to replace all of my MB550's but they will have their places.

trappergbus, do you know the reason for the odd spring pin configuration?

I looked the one over on display at the NTA convention, and although it looked like a great setup, the build quality seemed to be surprisingly a bit unrefined compared to the 550.

While I am far from being able to answer for Trappergbus, when I was at the booth it was mentioned that they are still waiting for some of the tooling to put them in a typical production. I can imagine that making some of the parts one at a time is not as consistent as their normal operation

The spring pin was designed by Tom Stalker to be able to have clearance for the pan to drop so we could use the Bridger dogless system below jaw level. The spring pin is heavy gauge heat treated to prevent distortion. The shape was never an issue when testing but we added deeper bends to increase clearance for trap covering just in case.

I will comment since these are my photos, I bought a dozen at the NTA convention. They sold well over 20 dozen the day I was there.

These are designed at 6 1/2" to be legal in nearly all places. The one I measured in the pics happened to be 6 5/8". Brand new traps, so it won't take long and they will have that measurement dialed in.

They are very well built traps, bigger than the 550, and ran 279/dozen. I'm excited to get them in the ground soon.

Does anyone know when they will be available on mtp's website?

when i talked to jeff at mtp he said mid to late sept they will be avaible

Why is there a notch on both jaws for the dogless pan? Just curious

Didn't want to make two castings would be my thoughts

That 6-5/8” spread is doable , high speed air grinder fix that in a hurry . I don’t know any game wardens in my area that would really push that. I’ve been lucky n have never had any issues.

And after testing I found the tab on the free jaw added stability to the free jaw when bedding the trap..

Question for the Canadian trappers, will the Alpha meet your BMPs in all provinces?

Taiwan?

There made in the USA but that can mean a lot of things.

Good point. Back in the day I fell for the whole Made in USA thing on the 550's only to later find out they were basically made in Taiwan. Then the website was changed to no longer say Made in USA and it now says something to the effect of "if we can't get a particular part we just source something from overseas and call it good." At least it doesn't say made in the US anymore.

I expect to see that same notice on the Alpha, if they label it on the website as "Made in USA" I'll be surprised. Looks like we will find out next month!

Assembled in the USA.......Made in the USA

Most products in USA fit that mold....

I know they are assembled here in Minnesota and most parts are made here in the USA. But like most manufacturers sometimes you need to outsource a few things so my guess is they are just covering there butts by saying that.

You’re spot on! They got called out on cast jaws and chain from Taiwan so they dropped the made in America stamp

Not to deviate from strictly trapping, I would cut them some slack these days. It's hard to find workers or parts in this country right now.

I love my MB550s and will be buying at least a dozen Alphas.

You can always start making your own traps and let others criticize your choices. Yay capitalism!

At least they ain’t made in China.

You're right, I sure could! Or I could buy from manufacturers who are honest about the origins of their traps instead of importing an entire trap, changing out a couple frame bolts, and advertising it as "Made in USA".

At least Bill Duke stamps made in Korea on the frame

I see now why you bought those cheap dogless traps.

Tim Caven, family, and crew at Minnesota Trapline Products are close to being the best trapping equipment and supply dealer in the USA.....maybe even the best.

Didn't mean to stir things up this bad, I'm sure the alpha is a great trap, as is the 550. Never said they weren't a good trap. I just have issues with the technicalities, that's all

Carry on...

Ive got this one and the levers are twisted and makes it hard to set. Didn't think the levers would twist like this as thick as they are and I haven't even had it in the ground yet

Dusty, I think I would be making a call to MTP and let them know what you have. No doubt they will take care of it for you.

I’ve had a couple 550s like that before just grab a pair of channel locks and give it a twist. Now if the entire dozen was all like that then I’d complain to the company.

I absolutely believe they will too, I'm not bashing them at all just pointing out a possible issue to resolve going forward. I know they are new on the market to, i am just giving some feed back.

I've had some traps (not MB's) do that with new springs but never new traps right out of the box. I agree with you Dusty but still think Tim would like to know about it.

But most of his are from china

very common for the levers to tweak that way when 2 coiled. only one side of the lever is powered and that side will sit higher. as hammer said above, just tweak them with a large pliers and dont worry about it. theres nothing to be changed in the design of the trap to change this, unless theyre 4 coiled. if the other lever isnt sitting the same as the one pictured, it will be, after being fired a few times. this is just part of tuning a trap. ive seen the same with victor, b&l, northwoods, bridger, etc. definitely not a design problem or weakness in material.

Correct!^^^^^
Some folks on here havent looked closely at how a coilspring trap operates.

Yep ^^^^^^

I understand how coil springs work. I was just surprised that them heavy levers twisted like that. They are way heavier than Blake's, Vic's, ect. I understand they will twist with only 2 springs, just surprised at how far.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Can't say for sure as I only handled the Alpha for a short time at the NTA convention. The levers weren't 'twisted' as we think of in the normal sense.

However, with the 2 coiled trap the levers do (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) on the pins as a result of the asymmetrical loading on one side of the lever as allowed by movement between the pin and hole diameter size in the levers on all traps. The more clearance in the pin holes the more cocking of the levers. As stated earlier, some parts may not have been from completed production tooling. If the holes are stamped in the lever blank and the blanks weren't quite positioned in the forming dies, that would also account for a cocking of the levers on the pins resulting from a misalignment of the lever face to the pin axis.

Just my guesses based on 30 years as a development engineer taking products from concept to production. YMMV

Thanks Scott for the perfect explanation. Also No manufactures trap is designed to be dry fired. They are designed to fire on live paws. Use a hammer handle when tuning to fire the trap. I use a masonry hammer that weighs 2.5 pounds with a soft handle to set pan tension and not stress the steel. I 4 coil for the mechanical advantage and to fight freeze thaw conditions and to prevent that. In 3 years of testing even with the thinner gauge levers I never had any distortion. We did see some bent spring pins so we added heavier gauge pins and heat treated them. The thin levers were just to prove the design before we went to the heavy gauge levers. There is a lot more to trap design than most trappers think I guess.

So when is everyone gonna blast MB for copying the K9 extreme? Or is it only a sin when someone copies MB?
Had to ask since that was all anyone talked about when Duke released their 550. Makes no difference to me because I use all of the above and like supporting them all. I do find it interesting that it’s OK for them to copy someone but not the other way around.

I just looked pics of both traps. There do appear to be some similarities and some differences.

I'll buy a dozen Alpha because I like the company and have an addiction.

I believe that MB produced the Bridger dogless (2013?) before the K9 extreme(2015?) came out with the same dogless style. I may be wrong though.

old newbie is correct. the 2-way adjustable dogless trigger came out on the ts-85, then the bridger dogless, then the k9extreme, in that order.

I think he is probably referring to the offset lower tab on the jaw design being copied from the k9 extreme.

if youre referring to the jaw tab that the pan hooks over, and lowers the pan, i first noticed that system on the k b compound 5.5.

Spot on, the first versions that Tom Stalker fabricated were with 650 jaws. He used the KB setup. He also designed the spring pin, that in Robs mind is pure genious. The design of the tab on the cast jaws for the Alphas was an easy transition to an already proven dogless Bridger system. The angle is very, very important...

Any word on when they’re gonna come out for sale ?

I was told the end of sept. Said they were having trouble getting steel.

Yep, thanks Yote. they are trying real hard to meet that date. Quality steel is in short supply .

Rob sent me a few current production models, The jaw spread issue has been addressed , both inside and out. Inside 5.5, outside 6 7/16th .. You asked they listened..

Groovy

Nice hope to see one soon

I talked to Brian McKee at the Georgia Convention last week, and he told me he wants to get more Sleepy Creeks out, but the steel shortage is holding him back too.

They are for sale now. Ordered a dozen today.

Where did you find them? I've been checking mtp daily and havent seen them

Go under the traps tab. They are not under Minnesota Brand they are under Alpha

Thanks I've got one on the way

Gettum dirty, thanks for your interest.

Just bought six of them, got them all tuned up and dyed today.

What kind of swivels are those on the D ring?

They are PIT swivels made by Ed Medvetz. I use them on all my traps, they lay nice and flat.

Thanks

Not trying to be critical but, You'll have better swiveling if ya attach the J hook to the D ring were its closer to the trap and guarded better. So it can't clog so easily.

Ups just delivered one Alpha, first impression, very well built, pan was level, nite latch very definite click, pan tension 3 1/2 lbs, will see what it is once it's waxed, definitely going to order at least on more dz. Great job MB

Got a dozen, added more chain and a swivel and welded the j hooks, Graham’s screen seemed to work better than the black coated stuff. First impressions seem good, will get them in the ground soon.

didn't read the thread, but looks like it's a 1/16th of an inch too wide for PA.

I believe the production model now is at 6 7/16

Yep 6 7/16th outside 5 7/16th inside, Rob made sure of that.

This may have been covered but is MB going to offer a 4 coiled version?

It was decided not too because of the added cost. They are easy to install, I've been using the MF2 helper springs. .90 per set or 11.00 per dozen. The MF1s aren't quit a stiff so you can add the power to match your conditions. I've used up 1.5 music wire springs without issues but they are a bit rough to set. 750 setters work well with the 4 coiled Alpha #3s.
I run all 4 coiled with my lake effect weather!

I caught my first coyote in an alpha yesterday. It was a perfect catch. I did have to tighten up pan tension on them once waxed, with 5/16 and 3/8 nut drivers. I hope the dogless setup holds up, its kind of an awkward connection of the pan to the somewhat rounded mold of the cast jaw. It’s not a real square connection if that makes any sense. No complaints so far though.

Thank you.

It DOES make sense. Same connection as the Bridgers. You wouldn't think it would hold, but it does, perfectly. And helps the pan drop, instead of hanging up, and increasing the tension to make the pan fall.

Keep the faith, Baby! I tuned a bunch of Bridgers with the same set up, and they come out sweeeeet!

Congrtats, I wax with the pan floppy then after waxing I tighten the tension screw till I can't tighten anymore then back it off to prefered pan tension. Seems to hold tension better this way. The connection of the night latch was done on purpose. Like a fine rifle, no false drop. When setting Go past the the night latch and draw it down till it clicks..It takes a little getting used to but it will grow on ya.... Thanks Yuckonal, your welcome Blaine cty

Caught a cross fox today in an Alpha. I was pumped

Lets see a pic!

Howd his feet look?

Those Fox are cool. Both coyotes so far were good catches. Trapper gbus, I figured that was the idea on the pan engagement but it does take some getting used to. The pan tension hasn’t changed after catches which is nice.

It caught it high but not much for damage at all

Nice cross MN, Turd Furgeson 4 coiled or 2 coiled? Well done!

Just 2 coiled for now.

Talked to a broker today said semi coyotes are going to be tough 5 $ is his quote nobody wants them .just a heads up heavy coyotes only is all they want.

[/quote]

Talked to a broker today said semi coyotes are going to be tough 5 $ is his quote nobody wants them .just a heads up heavy coyotes only is all they want.[/quote]

Ya, this was a sheep ranch coyote added to the summer pile.

This young female was waiting for me in one of my new Alpha this morning. So far I am very pleased with it's performance but it's going to take a bit for me to get used to bedding a larger trap than the MB550.

Nice catch

Scout, it may just be the pic but it looks like a J hook is opening up.

Ya, I changed it out before doing the remake. This was the same location that I had two wolves check out a few days ago before I made the set.

Nice yote 20scout, well done. Glad your pleased.

I had a dozen arrive last night. They look really nice!

I found out that they will hold wolves with no problem!.

Awsome, any pics please and thanks.

Turned this guy loose today from an alpha, foot looked great.

He looks like he wants a piece of you lol

Sorry you had to cut it loose but thanks for sharing. He looks perplexed LOL

Red fox in an Alpha by the back foot. Didn’t see any damage at all. I was worried it would be rough on fox feet.

Thanks for sharing Scooby, When I tested the Alphas I trapped 4 red fox, same results as you. Red fox are one of the reasons we went with 3/16th offset instead of 1/4.

Tight chains

Trappergbus,
Can you explain the logic behind that statement? I’m not disagreeing with the logic, I genuinely want to know.
Matt

X2. I'm curious why you went with less of an offset because of fox concerns. More offset give them opportunity to twist their foot between the jaws?

I'm not Gary but here's my 2 cents. Most foot injury is caused by the foot sliding back and forth in the jaws. Pinch it tight= less sliding

Had a gray fox today in an MB 550 by the back foot, just like the red that had some foot damage, nothing that would’ve caused it any real problems, but still some damage. I catch a good bit of fox and I usually stay away from the #3 size traps because they’re heavier. I look forward to seeing how the Alpha does on some other fox catches.

Over the years I've lost more coyotes with 1/4 offsets than 3/16th or closed jaws. I think they were toe caught and twisted out. Rob insisted on 3/16th, I agreed. With red fox it was obvious , if the paw moves , paw gets cut. When a capture is initially made if there's any dirt or small stones were the jaws contact were the offsets end it will hold the jaws open slightly thus increasing the offset gap. Most of the losses with1/4 offsets were in sand gravel mix. Grey fox are a hole different deal, smaller bone structure , tiny paws compared to reds. Very few here so I didn't have the opportunity to test on those cranky guys. Back when they were abundant here I used center swiveled 1.5 monties that were lamed offsets and lots of swivels. They fight a trap like a miniature coyote with a bad attitude. The last one I've trapped here was 5 years ago in a 550 os 4 coil by the back paw. It wasn't pretty. If I see a grey fox track at a location 450s get buried..

Thanks Trappergbus and Yessir for the explanation. When you spoke of the grey fox that was hind caught, and said “it wasn’t pretty” so you attribute that to the deeper catch of the 550 vs the 450 (higher up the leg) or the offset jaws, or a combination of both?

It was a combination of a deep catch and the trap didn't role with the animal. Coyotes tormented that particular Grey while it was caught also. Coyotes didn't bite him , but lots of tracks around the circle. They paid LOL..

Got a dozen right away and am pleased with them. I set em right out of the box and they've caught a number of coyotes with no problems. I will go with longer chains next season though, I just prefer longer chains to prevent pumping.

Glad ya like them, I add a JC Conner rod swivel with 3 links of chain to the stock chain, then extend the anchor end to 18 inches total to the anchor attachment point. Helps with the mounding thing too.

Just received a dozen. Nice looking and well built.

Gettum buried LOL... Good luck

X2