Fox Urine Question

Please forgive me as I am very new to predator trapping. I just started trapping predators this year. I have used a couple different fox urines this year and have noticed that one had more of a skunk smell to and another that I used had no skunk smell to it at all. Is there a particular one that anyone prefers to use?

Thanks,

Ty

Not much urine on the market that I would trust to be 100% real urine. I'd trust Wayne Derrick's , Grawes and Reuwsaat are suppose to collect there own. There's a few other guys that are in the collection business. I collect my own for my own use.

Dont know about fox urine. But Grawes has good coyote urine.

If you can't trust the "good" urine a lure manufacturer sells, why would you trust any lure he makes & sells with urine in it??

Would you consider this "good" urine?
https://youtu.be/wYa26jY1NLA

I'll take it step further.... if you can't trust the quality of there lure ingredients they sell how can you trust the quality of their lure

I have used Reuwsaats urine with good results and it does have a "skunky" smell to it. He feeds his own fox and collects his own urine.

I have some Reuwsaat's coyote urine. Just started using it. It smells mighty potent to me. The last stuff I had from a different supplier was so mild that I couldn't smell it, and nothing ever showed much interest in it. I just checked wolf traps today that I had used Reuwsaat's coyote urine on, and the wolves hadn't been around but I had coyote tracks on the pan of three traps and two more that they had walked between the trap and the attractor on. All with his urine, and three of those had droppings, either coyote or wolf, with his urine on them (one had gland lure also) and they had dug all three of those out of the snow that had covered them.

So from my limited experience I would say his stuff is good.

It’s this “good” thing that’s bugging me! Nobody says anything about the “bad” but will label the “good” as “it’s good”. This is way too subjective for me, maybe not for others but I’m not concerned about others very much. LOL So I want to do more investigation of urines and do some objective testing. The urine in the little video was from a highly respected trapper/lure manufacturer. That coyote could have been caught if the trap was placed correctly for it but the body language was not good at all!

This year I have 2 urines that I plan on testing, one I’ve poured off the 1st melted and the other didn’t freeze at 15* whereas the “melted-off” one froze solid! Neither advertised with antifreeze and they do smell different! What’s the hap??

Reuwsaats and Graham for me

That coyote appears to possibly be camera shy.

I wasn’t thinking camera shy as much as submissive.

Nope, I don’t believe that because I’ve video numerous coyotes closer to the camera than that. Behind the camera was a field surrounded by woods that’s usually full of deer at that time of year and something could have been going on there. Also, in that same general vicinity, I had a coyote stop and look in that direction, turn and bolt, running directly at the camera passing the tree it was mounted in by 3’. LOL Nope, these cameras do not scare coyote.

Check this cat out at the same test location and see what you think about whether it was camera-shy or on alert after getting a nose full.
https://youtu.be/IkSfE6qZkr4

Red fox urine that has come from primarily meat fed animals are known to have a skunky type odor when it is smelled from a container no doubt. Ammonia is another prominent odor from meat feed animals as the odor will build up in a container and will bleed off constantly like skunk essence does.

Urine collected from some pen raised animals that are on a primarily dry food/grain content diet will be much milder in odor and lighter in color in my experience. Some collectors may cut their urines with water to extend the volume I suspect. I have got some urine in years past that I knew were not straight run urine and some very contaminated. Those you don't get anymore.

I collected urine for many years in my younger days so I know what urine should smell and look like. There are some good small producers out there but finding them and knowing they maintain good standards is another matter. Once some see how much work it is to maintain any operation some don't do it for long or the game laws make it difficult to run the operation to keep it profitable.

As far as animal reactions go to urine or lures, they can be all over the place. Just so many variables that come in to play. The animals age and experience, time of year, animal population, what manner the material was presented, what happened to the animal just before it came to the urine odor and its rank in the pecking order all contribute to its reaction.

With coyotes the slightest thing can have them on edge and very wary. They don't know if the animal that deposited that urine is close by or not? Did they have a recent experience with a trap set location and have a flashback experience or remembering a similar urine odor previously.

I have seen many reactions as well over the years and some visual ques are hard to interpret as to the real reason why. Just my years of trapping sounding off.

Wasn’t it Carman that once wrote that if you can’t find “good” urine, use a “good” gland lure?

My 2 cents

I haven't run cameras a ton but have probably seen 20 coyotes react to were a coyote has peed on camera. Never seen one be shy or submissive to real pee. Glands on the other hand I have. My simple theory is the smell of real urine says a coyote HAS been here, a really strong gland odor says a coyote IS here and that will spook some coyotes or make them real cautious. Loose theory at this point with my limited experience.

To be quite honest unless one has collected it themselves or actually seen animals react to a particular brand of urine on camera, now a days you just don't know what you have.Maybe if your catching animals regularly with a urine by itself you could feel confident it was good.And I feel pretty confident to say there are more poor quality urines out there than good.

Fresh deposited coyote urine in the wild has its own natural specific odor. Also, most of the resident animals know it also. Penned raised animal collection urine is quite different in odor and concentration once it becomes stored, exposed to the open air, it changes its properties. It is still that species urine, but it changes considerably. Most trappers on average in my opinion use too much lure and urine per set initially. I have seen that with my own experiences. When competition is high for food sources an animal's reactions are more aggressive and reckless. When numbers are low not so much.

Thanks for sharing. I'll put some I collected in front of a camera and see how they react to the pen collected stuff compared the fresh deposited stuff.

I had a well known lure and urine maker, that catches hundreds of coyotes a year, that he doesn't use a gallon of urine a year. Actually had 2 makers tell me that. Myself, I don't have much faith in urine. I can't see that it does anything for my catch. Pretty much have quit using it.

^^^^well said!

That's not a loose theory at all. I've proven that to be true time and time again under cameras. I repeatedly tested 10 gland lures from 8 lure manufacturers and found 4 lures that I would use with confidence and one of those 4 lures that proved to be "the best of the best", the business has been sold and I don't think the new owner is making/selling gland lures anymore.

^^^^^quote of the day 4 sure^^^^^

Spot on.

I agree as well and that was also a known factor during all of my testing the last 3 years. It was very opportunistic to have done the gland lure testing the year I did because the coyote populations for 2 years prior had been in a downward trend. The spring of 2021 the population was so low I had difficulty finding coyotes to test let alone trap during the 2020 season!

Seldom,
What caused the downward coyote population turn....mange? parvo?

Mange played a role because I all of a sudden was catching coyotes that appeared to be recovering from it. I really believe the big deal is the sharp upturn in night-hunting here. Everybody and their brother are seemingly into it. Silencers, thermal vision year round and especially in the spring during denning has crashed the coyote population. Several of my large farms I've trapped before , this year the owners had to ask the night-hunters if I could trap and you can guess the answer to that.LOL I had properties that I'd trapped 3-10 coyotes a year on that I never set because of no sign but turned around and found out after the fact there had been night-hunters there for 2 years that I wasn't aware of.

I personally stop using urine all together years ago because deer would not leave sets alone. Then I noticed my catch went up two reasons I would suspect deer leaving sets alone so more sets working and I personally thing the bigger reason is no urine at set has really helped me

I catch dozens of coyotes on just urine alone. There’s definitely a difference in good, real urine and other stuff.

I have run into the same situation locally over the years with night hunting. Places I could count on for fox and coyote no longer produced as they had in years past. The canines just eventually avoided these areas due to nighttime harassment and other spot lighting human activity.

Folks got these side by sides and want to roam around after dark, prime game movement time, to see what they can see. 2-4 folks carrying on during this time frame will spook the locals and eventually cause them to change behavior and move to other less active areas. It may take some time for them to return to their normal activity if they ever do.

Once game cams became available, I put some out in my once productive areas to see what may be happening. Over time it all made sense as to the poor to no catch situation. Then the locals talk to give you more information.

The greed factor and territorial response goes way up. I've seen both, it makes a huge difference in how coyotes react.
I also agree the thermal folks are the biggest reason we have less coyotes and I've found numerous deer with little bullet holes with their racks missing. I've had coyotes shot in my traps too. The DNR opened pandoras box when they allowed thermal and no season. But we can buy 10 doe tags, ya can't make this stuff up... A lot of the thermal callers kill so they feel like big men and toss them in the ditch, the DNR does nothing. If I did that to a deer, they'd go ballistic. Sorry for the rant

I've started saving yellow snow for late season coyotes, The urine I purchased from Keg Creek opened my eyes to the difference quality makes.

Who remembers when they used to 'make' fox urine with food coloring, ammonia, water and one other ingredient ?

Ain't it the truth !

Does anyone else notice a difference in deer issues when using fox urine vs coyote or bobcat urine? I don’t use fox urine anymore just for that reason.

I sure remember the synthetic "grocery store goods" made urine some years back. In fact, I know a fella that did it and told me about it. Why he did that I don't know, sure makes you lose faith in someone who you thought was a straight shooter.

COON CREEK TRAPPERS supply in Frills Corners, PA has fresh fox urine from penned animals. Try them if you're close

I have not noticed any difference with urine but I made a salted bait once from an old recipe and every trap around it was snapped by the deer, lol. Not my brightest moment. I will look more closely for deer issues with fox vs coyote or bobcat in the future though.

Seldom
Looking forward to your tests. It's kind of funny I was in the lure room tonight (before I seen your video), I was going to pour off some of the unfrozen urine on some of the coyote urine I collected this year. Anyway while out there I noticed some bobcat pee from a reputable (or at leasted I assumed they were) dealer that claims to collect it himself and claims it 100% pure pee that was as liquid as it can be at 10 degrees. Again no mention of antifreeze in description. Setting beside it was bobcat bladder urine I collected frozen as solid as can be. I'm going to put some I collected in front of a couple of cameras Saturday

Very interesting Yes Sir! I’m wondering if the concentration of urea is higher in bobcat urine from being froze-down??? Lots of questions but the cameras will help point us in a direction for understanding more than we know now! I’m really looking forward to start testing urine in maybe a few weeks.

Bringing up an older thread. So, who is willing to say who they trust when it comes to good urine?
Back in the 70's and early 80's there was a guy in Bradford, PA named Harry Judkins who kept a dozen or more red fox. I used to bring him over deer scraps, road kill, wood chucks I shot, etc. and he would give me urine. The only time I have ever smelled urine as good as that was when I sniffed a spot in the snow where a red fox had squirted. I could smell that from 10 feet away on a calm 10 below zero morning. I will say the urine I got from Bob Jamison is pretty darn close. If you ever see me in January out in the snow covered fields with a spoon and a jar, you'll know what I'm doing.

I remember visiting with Harry many years ago when I traveled to many of the conventions. I was a very young man back then probably in my early 30's. He knew who I was even though I had only been in the business for a few years back them.

He was up in years then as I recall in his 70's I would guess. He shared with me that he liked to make many of his fox sets down inside low hollow stumps as he had much success with that set up. I would assume he trapped in many large hardwood areas.

I trapped some years ago for short periods of time not far from Bradford as my then father in law lived in Mt. Jewett. It is a well forested area where I trapped and not much farm ground. Power lines, woods roads and some grassy right of ways is about most of the area I briefly trapped.

On that last visit with Harry was in the early 1980's, I never saw him again. I still remember our visit and he gave me a couple bottles of lure I still have sitting on one of our shelves in the shop. I think of him on occasion when I see one of his bottles in my shop and remember our last conversation.

He had good urine as I recall since I make it a practice to smell things as you can imagine. Funny how things tend to stay with you in your memory.

He was salt of the earth, a very kind man. Did you know Ned Stark the fur buyer from Eldred, Pa? What a wonderful character he was. Always gave fair prices and paid more than he should for what some kids brought in. Bought all my furs and ginseng for many years.

I didn't know Ned Stark however I knew of him. I had good intentions of stopping by to see him when I was in that area but it never happened. I was always on the run it seemed.

Some great points on this thread. I have to wonder about the suppliers that sell timberwolf urine or raccoon urine. I know no one has wolves in cages collecting urine, so how do they get it?

I was in Sterling Furs place last year and saw he had a few drums of wolf urine. Not sure where he gets it? I know a few that collect coon urine.

People keep wolves and wolf/dog crosses as pets, so there are those that breed them. Not sure where the urine comes from but I suspect from some of those breeders. Not saying there isn't good wolf urine out there, but I've never had any, and no one I've talked to has either. Most wolf trappers use coyote or fox urine after they have tried some of the wolf urine on the market.

Very good point
Mac

I do not do a ton of canine trapping anymore. In the past I did.
I always got good urine from Grawe, Carman when he sold it, and Jameson.
Mac

Please forgive me as I am very new to predator trapping. I just started trapping predators this year. I have used a couple different fox urines this year and have noticed that one had more of a skunk smell to and another that I used had no skunk smell to it at all. Is there a particular one that anyone prefers to use?

Thanks,

Ty
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No need to ask for forgiveness, i remember asking myself the same question.... the fox urine that had more of a skunk odor had a higher sulfide content, myself...that would be the urine I would prefer to use... first for the old factory value and secondly more for a belief on my part than anything else, so take it for what its worth... and research it some yourself to reach your own opinion..

my partner and myself raised foxes for a little over a decade, kept them mostly meat fed throughout the year, as his wife has a taxidermy shop and the meat was free feed... being mostly meat fed all year long the sulfide content, although not as strong through out most of the year.... grew the closer to breeding season it got... I imagine other semi-chemicals were or are produced in the urine also up to the point of being... in actual heat for the female and for the male to be brought to the point to be able to produce sperm . apples and oranges... foxes and coyotes are not like dogs....the good lord gave foxes and coyotes a short period for a breeding season and trapping season runs into breeding season .... jim