This may be a dumb question

I did not want to take the question and derail it. ( about whether or not double jaws on a Duke 1 1/2 coil are a good idea or worth it?)

In that thread someone who I assume is a very experienced mink trapper stated they could adjust the pan tension so that the weight of the pan drops on its own and the trap was good to go. I am not questioning that.

I have read on here that some trappers feel that the springs must be heat-weakened to make the Duke 1 1/2 coil useable for muskrats?
It seems like a very odd thing to have to do to a new trap. If I had to weaken the springs on a new 1 1/2 coil to catch a muskrat, I am pretty darn sure that I would not buy that trap.

I have never been fond of Duke traps. One of the very first time I looked at some was back, I believe, in the late 1970s. I opened a box of #11 double long springs at one of Olson's conventions. The first two traps I looked at had cracks in the springs where they hook onto the jaws. I don't want to say I am the kind of guy that holds onto experiences (LOL) but I was incredibly unimpressed with the fact someone let the traps through quality control.
I have heard over the years that lots of good trappers love Dukes and that Mr. Duke does a lot for the trapping world. With all the used traps on the market I am getting a bit interested in the Dukes.
I digress.

What about this heat weakening trap springs?

Thanks

Mac

Why on earth anyone would intentionally weaken trap springs is beyond me. I've caught hundreds of muskrats in Duke 1.5 coils just the way they are. They are a great all around water trap. As I said in the other thread, I add a mid chain swivel and adjust so the pan drops on its own. I have several hundred of them set up this way and have used them for years.

I have never noticed any defects in new Dukes, but I'm sure it happens. I haven't bought any new ones in several years, and only do so when it's time to replace stolen or lost traps. I like all of my equipment to be the same and set up the same, and I settled on the Dukes a long time ago. The great thing is, though, that there are choices and you can go with whatever you want.

Weakening springs has nothing to do about catching rats, its about setting the traps. If you're setting multiple dozens of traps a day it will wear your hands out. Especially when you're setting while standing in water. Everyone complained about duke springs being too weak years ago and now theyre extra strong. Most traps are on the strong side out of the box these days.

[quote=trapdog1
I have never noticed any defects in new Dukes, but I'm sure it happens. I haven't bought any new ones in several years, and only do so when it's time to replace stolen or lost traps. I like all of my equipment to be the same and set up the same, and I settled on the Dukes a long time ago. The great thing is, though, that there are choices and you can go with whatever you want. [/quote]


Trapdog- are you night latching with that floppy pan as well? Also, are you running a high pan or leveled?

I'm sure you can find some weak springs somewhere you could put on without destroying the originals. Then you can put them back on when you realize you made a mistake!

I have used the Duke 1 1/2's with success on rats and mink without weakening the springs at all. To make them more sensitive, I have replaced the pans with pinch pans and have bent the dogs down slightly to make them fire easily. To further make setting them easier on the hands I have bent the levers down slightly on the ends and when planning to set a lot of traps on opening day, I will pre set them at home by sitting in a chair and rocking forward and depressing the levers with my feet. Then I put a clip on them to keep them open. This saves my hands on a day that is cold and wet and I am trying to get as many sets out as I can with the limited amount of daylight that we have then. I shake the clips onto the floor of the boat and retrieve them with a magnet later.

Hog rings work well for clips also and Mike Kelly's Wild River Trap Pans are the cat's meow for light pressure to fire traps for rats and mink.

I like the strong springs on these Dukes since I have caught more than a few otter and beaver in them and I even have used them effectively on red and grey fox.
Most would not go through the trouble to pre set these but I am old and my hands suffered a lot when I used to do this very much.

Trapdog- are you night latching with that floppy pan as well? Also, are you running a high pan or leveled?[/quote]
No night latch, and run the pan fairly level. A little high or low doesn't bother me much.

Interesting idea, and I'll have to remember this! I'm 57 and can still set traps all day, but it gets a little tougher every year!

Good stuff there MnMan

I like to zip tie traps opened for setting on the first day. Get cut enough using the hog rings putting up beaver. Id zip tie my 330s too but they dont fit in the milk crates anymore that way. Great for the smaller traps though.

Mac, this is what I gathered as well. The guys doing that (beav was one) were running hundreds of traps on floats.

I would not buy new traps then intentionally weaken the springs.
There are tons of used traps for sale much cheaper than new with springs already weak from years of use.

thanks to all that responded

Mac

I have no clue about the weakening springs but I picked up this tip from an older trapper who uses 4 coil springs as his main spring and I tried one out this year and loved it. Way easier on the hands and still held the same. The only problem is that it's an extra 1$ a trap for the setup.

I wouldn’t knock it without testing it first. But that’s on you.

Spring strength does little for a traps holding power. Good trap design is critical. The relationship between Lever position, lever lock and shape of jaw faces are what hold an animal. Spring strength mainly effects firing speed.

With fragile boned animals, like muskrats, it is easy to overkill.

Been there, done that. Would do it again

This.

I ran a few hundred new duke 1.5s twice a day for ten days.

Holding the dog down with your thumb while you set the pan with your other hand was BRUTAL!

I was sure cussing those springs by about day three!

During the “rat wars” I could buy new dukes cheaper than anything used. Guys were paying $5-6+ a trap at auctions for just about anything. Rusty old junk. I could get new dukes for $4.

If all they’re gonna be used for is rats, than I say weaken away!

Yup with a standardized trap arsenal to boot!

Thank goodness some folks have the ability to think outside the box.

Them weakened coils still hold coon very well on drowners, again it’s trap design.

The beauty of it is with a bit of practice you can figure out the heat and control how much to take out but we won’t get into that.

^^^

There’s a LOT to be said about a standardized collection of traps, especially for a high volume, production operation.

I do see your point. If you're using them for dedicated rat traps and need a lot of them, it would make sense to buy new and treat them all the same. I think we are approaching this from opposite directions. Yours are dedicated rat traps with some incidental coons, so weaker traps are okay. My setup is dedicated coon traps (non drowners) with incidental rats, so I want stronger and faster springs.

Thanks for all the great information. I guess I misunderstood and thought Beav and others claimed the traps tension was too hard. It makes more sense that it would be tough on the hands

Mac