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The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's worst.

Posted By: Mira Trapper

The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's worst. - 11/29/07 03:17 PM

As many of you already know I debate a lot of ARA . One of the most common lies I get from those ARA types is that God doesn't want animals killed by man & that we are herbivores ,not omnivore. I know that seems to be very ignorant of our biology & physiology but that is the approach adopted by those Vegans. They make the claim, while pumping supplements down their throat in order to get their needed intake of missing nutrients from meat & dairy products. They claim that Jesus is and was a vegan because He wants to save the animals and humans. For those here who know better but don't have the Theological back ground needed to dispute the Vegan lies, I have comprised this thread and will offer the readers some links that will help them find the words to counter the vegan lies.

This link will be very rewarding to those trying to sort out the truth about Vegan Jesus and Pete Singers deceiving commentary.

Here is a beginning to the Vegan Lie about Christianity , Judea Religion & and by extrapolation Islamic Religions.


"Christianity is our foe. If animal rights is to succeed, we must destroy the Judeo-Christian Religious tradition." Peter Singer, the "Father of Animal Rights"

What the Bible states about Singer and his followers.

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I guess Vegans Jesus people are described as deceiving spirits forbidding to eat meat and damning us for thanking God for the meal. Those poor vegans can't read well enough to understand the words written about them 2000 years ago. Pretty sure God understands their lie though. Vegans offering the lie will be caught up in their blasphemy. Failing to acknowledge God created us omnivore, decided that we could not live in sin for eternity and gave us the option of having our flesh die so our Souls could be saved for eternity.




I hope our mods will see this as a thread that should be held to the top as many folks here have Faith in God and need to read this thread from time to time to get their own words together in defense of their Faith.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 03:26 PM

For those who wonder at Vegan' Jesus comments on this board about God & Jesus I think they might want to see what real Theologians think of their lie or ignorance. This link will be very rewarding to those trying to sort out the truth about Vegan Jesus and Pete Singers deceiving commentary.
http://www.firstthings.com/article.php3...
And then through one of the largest Bible Study sites on the internet.
http://www.gospelway.com/religiousgroups/anim...
You will also find a nice Background video on the real hope in Jesus & the Word which became flesh and why that flesh was to become Jesus the Savior.
http://www.thehopeproject.com/

I put those links up for you hunter Christians Jews & Islamics that strive to honor God by knowing Him as the Creator that is interested in our Souls and has stated all flesh must die. For those who read this forum and are trying to find their way as the omnivores that God created and are meat eaters who commission the deaths of animals, it is God's plan to have that happen. He created us Omnivore and as Jesus, He did ask for meat to eat and honored Jewish tradition of Thanking God for the many Religious Meats that He Himself ate as a practicing Jewish Rabi. When God asked Moses to build the Ark ,He denoted which humans would survive the flood but He established a great acknowledgement of who we are as humans when He asked Noah to pick the animals that would survive the flood. God gave us that power and respect for animals and our choices to use them as He provided.
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 04:54 PM

????????????????????? I'm dizzy all of a sudden.
Posted By: jaridmark

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 05:27 PM

http://www.godtellsus.com/abouteatinganimalsandwearingfur.html
Posted By: Terry

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 06:04 PM

I appreciate your efforts, Mira trapper, but I am afraid that you have reached an erronious conclusion about Noah choosing the animals that were taken aboard the ark.
Genesis 6:19-20 make it plain that God not only made the decision as to which kind and how many were to be on the ark, He also delivered them to Noah. This is further defined by God in Gen.7:2-9.
Blessings,
Terry
Posted By: Clark

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 06:57 PM

Mira Trapper! I was just thinking that I haven't seen one of your posts for ages now. Good to have you back. I always enjoyed your informative, well thought posts that showed how simple minded the ARA are and how we are in the right.

Clark
Posted By: cwilld

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 07:16 PM

Might be easier on the eyes if the font were black. Reading that much red gave me a migraine...
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 07:52 PM

 Originally Posted By: Terry
I appreciate your efforts, Mira trapper, but I am afraid that you have reached an erronious conclusion about Noah choosing the animals that were taken aboard the ark.
Genesis 6:19-20 make it plain that God not only made the decision as to which kind and how many were to be on the ark, He also delivered them to Noah. This is further defined by God in Gen.7:2-9.
Blessings,
Terry



You are partially correct and I am completely right Terry. God chose what animals He wanted and in what numbers but He gave Noah the reins in picking them to complete the plan.


In Context.

And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

2Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

3Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 08:02 PM

 Originally Posted By: cwilld
Might be easier on the eyes if the font were black. Reading that much red gave me a migraine...



Take a pill and start over. I use red to define my posts so I can find them easily later. That makes quotation marks redundant for me. The rest of you pick your own colors. \:D
Posted By: tribalhunterpa

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 08:35 PM

MATHEW 10 10 nor scrip for your journey neither two coats,neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
Posted By: tribalhunterpa

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 08:37 PM

mathew 25 35 for i was hungered and ye gave me meat i was thirsty and ye gave me drink
Posted By: Bigswamp

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 10:28 PM

Luke 24:41

41And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" 42They gave him a piece of broiled fish, 43and he took it and ate it in their presence.

Great post Mira, head on...heads up..
Posted By: kybeaverman

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 10:41 PM

John the Baptist was the greatest prophet ever born,,,,,,,,what did he wear?
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 10:42 PM

Acts 10

9On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:

10And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,

11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:

12Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

13And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat.

14But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean.

15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.


16This was done thrice: and the vessel was received up again into heaven.
Posted By: pudge

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 11:20 PM

I recently read an article from Ken Ham, Creation Institute, concerning God's will for man. He referenced Gen. 1:29-30 supporting his claim that it has always been God's will for man to be vegatarian. I do not agree with his statement, so Mira Trapper, I would love to hear what you have to say.
Thanks
Posted By: Mike from OK

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 11:26 PM

Pudge,

After the flood, God told Noah, "You WILL have them for MEAT." That was not a suggestion. God did not say SHALL or IF YOU FEEL LIKE IT. He said WILL. It is God's WILL.

Mike
Posted By: pudge

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/29/07 11:38 PM

Thanks Mike for your response, lets hear some other points to debate with concerning this claim. Concerning Peters vision in Acts 10, I find it interesting that God offered food that was considered "unclean" in a previous time. The law has passed Peter, it is now a time of grace. To go further, that grace has been extended to all mankind, not a chosen people. That too is an explanation of Acts 10.
Posted By: Gary Benson

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 12:29 AM

God didn't give us canine teeth to eat veggies with. Cripes.

Greatest verse in the Bible is Genesis Ch 3 Vs 16
After God took a rib from man and made woman, He told woman, "your purpose is to serve him, and he shall rule over you". That's what it says in the original King James version. Needless to say, that verse has been diluted intensely over the years. (Great conversation starter at the card party.)
Posted By: Mike from OK

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 12:29 AM

ARA=Animal Rights Activist.

Mike
Posted By: BigBob

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 12:43 AM

Those knuckleheads just make me see RED!
Posted By: C.Cherry

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 12:57 AM

Yet another reason to dislike animal rights activists.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 02:26 AM

According to Scripture the first sin of the Bible falls right in line with Animal Rights Activist(ARA) claims. The Serpent convinced Adam & Eve that they would be like gods knowing the knowledge of good and evil. When they took that apple they were wanting to be gods according to the verse and Eve had no more guilt then Adam as both took in the serpents lie. The ARA are trying to change God's law by inserting their own sense of what they feel God would want. The major point they miss is this. God isn't interested in saving the flesh as He stated all flesh must die. It is the Souls of Men that God wishes to harvest. If God had left us in the Garden we could have eaten from the tree of life. In so doing we would have lived for Eternity in a continuous life of good & evil. To save our Souls God separated man from the Tree of Life and gave us death so that we would be free of sin for eternity according to Scripture.


Genesis 3

1Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 04:31 AM

It works to, because they cloud up the waters so much with making it sound like Jesus was to kind to eat meat. Folks that understand Jewish tradition and Religious laws inclusive of eating rituals would know Jesus ate Passover Lamb for at least thirty years of His life. He showed fishermen apostles where to cast their nets upon His return to His Resurrection meal while he made a fire to cook that fish. One of the reasons I started this thread is because Christians need to know how to counter the lie using Scripture in context to do so.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 04:40 AM

 Originally Posted By: pudge
I recently read an article from Ken Ham, Creation Institute, concerning God's will for man. He referenced Gen. 1:29-30 supporting his claim that it has always been God's will for man to be vegatarian. I do not agree with his statement, so Mira Trapper, I would love to hear what you have to say.
Thanks



Hello Pudge. God knew His plan and our missteps before we were born. He is the beginning and the end.Animal Rights. It is a very informative read and addresses the claims you offer. God intended for us to eat meat and live an environmentally friendly lifestyle. That is why Adam & Eve were given fur jackets by God and not Pleather.


Once again here is the Gateway Bible Study link to animal rights.

http://www.gospelway.com/religiousgroups/anim...
Posted By: Tsarevna

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 07:04 AM

Vegans are always pointing out that gorillas are gentle giant vegetarians and apes (us included) are not meant for eating meat.

That's when I point out that chimps frequently eat monkeys, even going so far as to stab them to death with spears and fling them from treetops to their deaths on the ground. There's been reports of chimps snatching human babies from the crib, and consuming them.
Baboons are not vegitarians either, they try to kill flamingos all the time by jumping onto their backs and stabbing them in the neck with their fangs like vampires.

I point out to the people that believe in evolution that I'm just another primate out there to hunt. :P

It's also good to point out that Hitler was a vegetarian, and Jesus was not. So your diet doesn't reveal a **** thing about your ethics.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 12:53 PM

Funny thing about the other primates. Most are insectivore and quite a few also eat meat and all have societal colonies structured on the boss man being the supreme commander often through violent measures. Many ARA say the chimps are 95% like us but the truth is that we are 100% human while they are 100% monkey despite the gene difference of five percent. If there is a God and I strongly believe there is, then He created us omnivore. If we have evolution roots from the primeval soup we are still omnivore. Case closed in either scenario. Personally I figure it takes more Faith to be an atheist, then have faith in God. The structure of Science, the maths and our universe is to perfect to have fallen into place without a creator. I don't consider it blind Faith to think of His Universe in that light. I also feel very connected to the inner me that I feel to be the Spirit that is God given & will be claimed as A Soul as I leave this earthly flesh.
Posted By: Bigswamp

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 02:40 PM

 Originally Posted By: pudge
I recently read an article from Ken Ham, Creation Institute, concerning God's will for man. He referenced Gen. 1:29-30 supporting his claim that it has always been God's will for man to be vegatarian. I do not agree with his statement, so Mira Trapper, I would love to hear what you have to say.
Thanks

Gen 1:29-30 AMP
29And God said, See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the face of all the land and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
30And to all the animals on the earth and to every bird of the air and to everything that creeps on the ground--to everything in which there is the breath of life--I have given every green plant for food. And it was so.

Genesis 9:1-7 AMP
1AND GOD pronounced a blessing upon Noah and his sons and said to them, Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth.
2And the fear of you and the dread and terror of you shall be upon every beast of the land, every bird of the air, all that creeps upon the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are delivered into your hand.
3Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you; and as I gave you the green vegetables and plants, I give you everything.
4But you shall not eat flesh with the life of it, which is its blood.
5And surely for your lifeblood I will require an accounting; from every beast I will require it; and from man, from every man [who spills another's lifeblood] I will require a reckoning.
6Whoever sheds man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God He made man.
7And you, be fruitful and multiply; bring forth abundantly on the earth and multiply on it.

Gen 1:29-30 was before the Fall of Man,there is no Biblical record of man using meat for food,and this changed after the Flood(Gen 9:1-7)Verse 3 clearly shows God's will.
The ARA's chose some verses and left out others to "help" their argument and their cause.
Don't buy into it....
Posted By: BaldKnobber1

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 02:59 PM

Thi sthread is making me very hungry.
Think I'll cook up some beaver steaks tonight.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 03:05 PM

Also worthy of note is the death of Abel who was favored for offering the fattest and sweetest of his meat to God before he ate his own portion. God loved the love that Abel had for God. However Cain was jealous of that love. Cains stumbling block was Cain offered the rotting seeds of the field left overs to God as an offering.


Genesis 4

2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

4And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?

7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

8And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

9And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
Posted By: T-Rex

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 04:33 PM

It's not like me to get involved in a bible conversation, but:

In Leviticus, (chapter 13 if memory serves me), God tells Moses what is to be eaten, and what ain't. There is meat on the menu.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 07:48 PM

If you like you can check out this link to another forum that I posted references to about meat eating and the Bible.

http://www.ethicdiscussion.com/discuss/index.php?showtopic=6372
Posted By: Kart29

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 07:50 PM

God sent quail to the Israelites for food while they were wandering in the desert and got tired of eating manna.

I don't think it's going to do much good to discuss the bible with Vegans or ARA's, though. They have their agenda and only want to see evidence that supports the confusion of their mind. I doubt they are much interested in finding truth.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 08:07 PM

 Originally Posted By: Kart29
God sent quail to the Israelites for food while they were wandering in the desert and got tired of eating manna.

I don't think it's going to do much good to discuss the bible with Vegans or ARA's, though. They have their agenda and only want to see evidence that supports the confusion of their mind. I doubt they are much interested in finding truth.


However the thing one always needs to remember is that you are not addressing the opponent in a debate such as this. It is the readers you must inform and you can actually use the Vegan's lies to make the Christian readers see how the vegan is trying to dupe them.
Posted By: yote_girl

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 08:35 PM

When it comes to having a central nervous system, and the ability to feel pain, hunger, and thirst, a rat is a pig is a dog is a boy. ~Ingrid Newkirk

These people's philosophy is that all animals have the ability to suffer, therefore all animals are equal.

If these people do not eat meat based on what they have read in the Bible, clearly they lack reading comprehension skills.

Animals were put on this earth FOR HUMAN USE. Although it is not ethical to kill an animal for no reason, however if it was killed because it was doing harm and/or is not going to waste, that is what God intended.

It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce. The Bible talks alot about shepherds and how important figures they are in those times.

In verses 28-30 in Genesis 1 God talks about how man and animals are to exists. In verse 28 God gives to man authority over all that was created on earth. Man is to take care of and use the earth. Man is to have the authority over all that was created. This means that man is to ensure the control and protection of all that God had created.

Then in Genesis 9 there is a change between man and animal. Up until this point in history animals were not used as food. However, God now puts certain animals in the diet of mankind. God also puts fear into the animals, so that they fear mankind. Again animals are used as to fill the needs of men.

God, himself, made coats of skins and clothed Adam and Eve. If the Lord God could choose to clothe Adam and Eve with whatever He desired, but chose animal skins, what right do they have to protest another person’s desire to wear furs and leather products?
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 08:56 PM

I can see Ingrid Newkirk would consider you a cancerous blight on the earth Yote_______Girl. Then again she already informed folks that all humanity is a cancerous blight on the planet.
Posted By: yote_girl

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 09:11 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
I can see Ingrid Newkirk would consider you a cancerous blight on the earth Yote_______Girl. Then again she already informed folks that all humanity is a cancerous blight on the planet.


excuse me?
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 09:45 PM

The fact that you exercise free will and support the killing of animals has put you in the wrong as far as Ingrid Newkirk is concerned. You might have missed this quote by her. I assumed you might have already known about it.




 Quote:
"Humans have grown like a cancer. We're the biggest blight on the face of the earth." (Reader's Digest, June, 1990)


More of the same:::

 Quote:
"I am not a morose person, but I would rather not be here. I don't have any reverence for life, only for the entities themselves. I would rather see a blank space where I am. This will sound like fruitcake stuff again but at least I wouldn't be harming anything."
(Washington Post, November 13, 1983)




 Quote:
"Even if animal research resulted in a cure for AIDS, we'd be against it."
(Vogue, September, 1989)
 Quote:
"If my father had a heart attack, it would give me no solace at all to know his treatment was first tried on a dog."
(Washington Post, Nov. 13, 1983)



A series of such sourced quotes by ARA can be found here in case you are interested. They have a very spooky agenda and most folks inclusive of the trappers here don't really know how much control the ARA wants over humanity and the animals. The whole exercise seems to be about them assuming the roll of Angelic Nirvana in some narcissistic manner to make themselves appear superior to the rest of humanity at the expense of animals and humans.

Here is a link to such quotes with a rebuttal of warning to those quotes.





http://www.ethicdiscussion.com/discuss/index.php?showtopic=6323
Posted By: AKtrapper26

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 10:23 PM

 Originally Posted By: yote_girl
It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce.


Now that, I like. \:\)
Posted By: Tsarevna

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 10:48 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Funny thing about the other primates. Most are insectivore and quite a few also eat meat and all have societal colonies structured on the boss man being the supreme commander often through violent measures. Many ARA say the chimps are 95% like us but the truth is that we are 100% human while they are 100% monkey despite the gene difference of five percent.


No no no, if we are gonna play their game, you gotta be technically correct. *wink* ;\)

Chimps aren't monkeys. Basically the big "family group" is that of the Primates. Primates include the "great apes," monkeys, and lemurs.

Lemurs have tails, are small, but differ from monkeys.
Monkeys are small creatures that have tails.
Apes are usually larger, lacking tails, like chimps, orangutans, gorillas.

Humans are considered great apes, with a twist: the only living hominids. The rest of the great apes are Pongidae. (Neanderthal was the last living hominid besides us, and he departed 25,000 years ago. But some people think he was just a strange looking person adapted to the cold, and not really another species.)

Anyways the moment you call a chimp a monkey, or a gorilla or orangutan a monkey, people write you off as ignorant and dismiss your argument from that moment on.
Just remember Zira from Return to the Planet of the Apes "I am NOT a monkey!" \:D
Posted By: yote_girl

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 11/30/07 11:22 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
The fact that you exercise free will and support the killing of animals has put you in the wrong as far as Ingrid Newkirk is concerned. You might have missed this quote by her. I assumed you might have already known about it.



i apologize...i misunderstood the content of your reply...i should not have responded that way...i understand now...thank you

 Originally Posted By: AKtrapper26
 Originally Posted By: yote_girl
It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce.


Now that, I like. \:\)


lol thanks!
Posted By: VAH20TRAP

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/01/07 04:23 AM

Saw this first hand the other morning when I had a coyote in one of my sets. He bounced around when I pulled up, but when I walked up to him he coward down. That is why God put man over the animals and that is why he coward down. God Bless...
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/01/07 01:06 PM

If God didn't want us to eat meat He wouldn't have made it so tasty.

Funny how God chose so many evil shepherds to Lead His people. In fact the Three Fathers of Jewish Faith get mention as Abraham Issac & Jacob . They were the chosen by God's leaders and they were shepherding sheep & goats to look at I suppose. In fact the very first genetic manipulation in human history is that of Jacob as he picked the spotted lambs from his Father-In-Laws sheep by putting the black with the white till he had control of the flock through the offspring. The Bible is filled with animal husbandry stories because God wanted us to exercise the Dominion He gave us over nature. The Vegans want us to feel shame for that God given ability so they can have their own narcissistic pursuit of Angel Nirvana devoid of any true love for God's gifts to humanity. In that exercise they hope their Nirvana will place them in a superior position to the rest of humanity without acknowledging God's real purpose is that all flesh should die so our Souls can be harvested.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/01/07 01:15 PM

 Originally Posted By: yote_girl
 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
The fact that you exercise free will and support the killing of animals has put you in the wrong as far as Ingrid Newkirk is concerned. You might have missed this quote by her. I assumed you might have already known about it.



i apologize...i misunderstood the content of your reply...i should not have responded that way...i understand now...thank you

 Originally Posted By: AKtrapper26
 Originally Posted By: yote_girl
It makes no sense for God to put these animals here, only to populate and for everyone to eat lettuce.


Now that, I like. \:\)


lol thanks!



No need to apologize . I made the first mistake in assuming you already knew of Ingrid's spite for humans and her consideration of humans as a cancerous blight upon the earth. My bad. The main thing I see in a lot of ARA is that scorn for humans. They really don't like the fact that we are so populous and at the top of the food chain. They scorn our brains as tools because it gives us high powered rifles and increases our Dominion over animals and the earth in general. They have environmentalist that despise our population numbers gravitating towards the Vegan Ara ranks for the same reason. If humans were lower down the food chain they couldn't afford to be smug about our God given position.
Posted By: SalinaKSCooner

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/01/07 01:27 PM

Im not sure if someone metioned this but dont some religions (or all maybe) have lint. Where you dont eat meat for a certain amount of time. If we are not supposed to eat meat, then why would we have lint?
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/01/07 02:28 PM

Lent is a Religious observance of denying our body in recognition of God's gifts to us. It is a purging of our Body of whatever earthly pleasure we are drawn to. I am not a Lent observer myself as I am a Presbyterian but I have great respect for the people that in their Catholic Faith offer to purge themselves in an honest attempt to prove their love for God by denying themselves of earthly pleasures like MEAT, Alcohol ,chewing gum or alas>>>>>>>> Sex. For 40 days!!!!! I think I could give up carrots for 40 days but I see no point in that for me as God already knows I know Him. Thankfully I know the Apostles/Nicene Creed offered to God in Faith are the main gate to Heaven and God through that sacrifice He made on the Cross. Here is a link that might interest you with regards to Lent.

http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttmol.html

Posted By: Bigswamp

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/01/07 02:54 PM

 Originally Posted By: suredve
except ya eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you.
Jesus told this to a group of people i think, but i need to see what it's realy saying.

i'm trusting the Holy Spirit to show this to me.

i know theres a diffrence how he related and how me made things evident, before his death, burial, and resurection.

he used a great mediator to reveil himself to all that beleive.





John 6:48-58 AMP

48I am the Bread of Life [that gives life--the Living Bread].

49Your forefathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and [yet] they died.

50[But] this is the Bread that comes down from heaven, so that [any]one may eat of it and never die.

51I [Myself] am this Living Bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this Bread, he will live forever; and also the Bread that I shall give for the life of the world is My flesh (body).

52Then the Jews angrily contended with one another, saying, How is He able to give us His flesh to eat?

53And Jesus said to them, I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, you cannot have any life in you unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood [unless you appropriate His life and the saving merit of His blood].

54He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood has (possesses now) eternal life, and I will raise him up [from the dead] on the last day.

55For My flesh is true and genuine food, and My blood is true and genuine drink.

56He who feeds on My flesh and drinks My blood dwells continually in Me, and I [in like manner dwell continually] in him.

57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live by (through, because of) the Father, even so whoever continues to feed on Me [whoever takes Me for his food and is nourished by Me] shall [in his turn] live through and because of Me.

58This is the Bread that came down from heaven. It is not like the manna which our forefathers ate, and yet died; he who takes this Bread for his food shall live forever.

Suredve, hope this helps, previously the Jews had brought up the subject of manna in the wilderness and challenged the Lord Jesus to produce food as wonderful as that.In verse48-49 Jesus reminds them that their fathers ate manna in the wilderness and died.In other words, manna was for this life only.It did not have any power to give eternal life to those who had ate it.In verse 50, Jesus spoke of Himself "as the bread which comes down from heaven"If any one ate this bread, he would not die".This did not mean that he would not die physically, but would have eternal life in heaven.In these verses Jesus repeatedly speaks of men eating him.Obviously, the idea of that is repulsive and impossible.Some think he meant to teach that we must eat of him in the communion service.But this is not what he said.The context makes it clear that to eat of him is to believe on him.The food and drink of this world has only temporary value,to partake of him by faith receive life that last forever.A very close union exists between himself and those who are believers in him.Whoever eats his flesh and drinks his blood abides in him, and he abides in that person.Nothing could be closer or more intimate than this.When we eat literal food,we take it into our very being, and it becomes part of us.When we accept the Lord Jesus as our Redeemer, he comes into our lives to abide,and we,too,abide(continually dwell) in him.
Christ is the bread of God who gives eternal life to those that feed on him.
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/02/07 09:07 PM

Great understanding of price He payed for us bigswamp. One thing that a lot of Vegan AR will claim is that the Old Testament laws were replaced by Christ. However, the missing point is that Jesus is the Old Testament. The law never changed but our hearts have been opened to receiving God through Jesus Christ. God never changed the rule that all flesh must die but He gave us Jesus so that all Souls could be saved.
Posted By: Tsarevna

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/02/07 11:55 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
If humans were lower down the food chain they couldn't afford to be smug about our God given position.[/color]


That's a very good point!
If people spent a few days starving in the woods without food, attitudes change real quick about what is food and what isn't.
I was lost for 5 days and 3 (or 4?) nights in the sierras (when I was about 10.) I raised rabbits for the pet trade and bottle fed them and everything, but by the 2nd day without food I was setting snares made of vines and shoestrings.

Did you know that most furbearing animals have just enough brains in their head to tan their own hide? I don't think that's a coincidence.

(Buffalo, horse and mammoth of course don't fit into that category, but those were sought primarily for their meat anyway.)
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/11/07 03:35 AM

Something else to consider that was not mentioned earlier. The Plagues that Moses faced with the Egyptian people. The reason for those plagues was that God was systematically destroying the gods that the Egyptians worshiped. The Egyptians had made animals into God. They paid a heavy price for that travesty against The Living God.


http://www.padfield.com/2002/egypt_1.html

"The Egyptians considered sacred the lion, the ox, the ram, the wolf, the dog, the cat, the ibis, the vulture, the falcon, the hippopotamus, the crocodile, the cobra, the dolphin, different varieties of fish, trees, and small animals including the frog, scarab, locust and other insects. In addition to these there were anthropomorphic gods; that is, men in the prime of life such as Amun, Atum, or Osiris." (John Davis, Moses and the Gods of Egypt, p. 95).


It was through a series of ten plagues that God chose to harden Pharaoh's stubborn heart (cf. Exo. 7:3, 14, 22; 8:15, 19, 32). Egypt was a polytheistic society -- they worshiped over eighty gods. The true God of heaven was not only going to reveal Himself to Israel through the plagues, He was also going to show His superiority to all of the gods of the Egyptians.

Against All The Gods Of Egypt (#2)
by David Padfield

The first article in this series to showed how the 10 plagues God sent on Egypt were directed not only against Pharaoh and his people, but also "against all of the gods of Egypt." We will now continue with the second installment.


The goddess Hathor was the symbolic mother of Pharaoh, and the king of Egypt was referred to as "the son of Hathor." In addition to the gods already mentioned, this plague would have been a direct insult to Khnum, the ram-god, and to Bast, the cat goddess of love.


For every Christian & Jew the linked article describes what God thinks of anthropomorphic gods. Wonder how He feels about Bambi & Micky ????? It would be a good read for those who wish to understand the lead up to Exodus for the Jewish people and the destruction of Egyptian gods.
Posted By: doc9013

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/13/07 03:40 AM

Thank God for all his blessings.Thank God for websites like this where the truth can be told, and for people like you who tell the truth.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/13/07 04:08 AM

Oh, heck, its easy to counter idiot vegan claims that Jesus was some kind of vegetarian simply by pointing out that he fed the multitude with bread and FISH.
Posted By: Country Boy

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/13/07 05:02 AM

I like Proverbs 12:27 The slothful man roasteth not that which he took in hunting;
Posted By: Mira Trapper

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/13/07 10:42 PM

 Originally Posted By: BuckNE
Oh, heck, its easy to counter idiot vegan claims that Jesus was some kind of vegetarian simply by pointing out that he fed the multitude with bread and FISH.



He was also a Rabi of Jewish tradition and therefore would have observed the eating of the Passover Lamb. I don't think they had such a thing as Tofu Lamb Chops back then. In all seriousness I think we should strive as Christians to reflect upon these Biblical truths with those who might not know the Biblical facts are found in the Good Book.
Posted By: waspshooter

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/13/07 11:24 PM

 Originally Posted By: Mira Trapper
Lent is a Religious observance of denying our body in recognition of God's gifts to us. It is a purging of our Body of whatever earthly pleasure we are drawn to. I am not a Lent observer myself as I am a Presbyterian but I have great respect for the people that in their Catholic Faith offer to purge themselves in an honest attempt to prove their love for God by denying themselves of earthly pleasures like MEAT, Alcohol ,chewing gum or alas>>>>>>>> Sex. For 40 days!!!!! I think I could give up carrots for 40 days but I see no point in that for me as God already knows I know Him. Thankfully I know the Apostles/Nicene Creed offered to God in Faith are the main gate to Heaven and God through that sacrifice He made on the Cross. Here is a link that might interest you with regards to Lent.

http://www.thercg.org/articles/ttmol.html



Miratrapper, I'm very impressed with this thread. I was unaware of the Vegans twisting the words of the Good Book to support their twisted ideals.

I'm Catholic, and try to observe Lent to the best of my ability. During the 40 days, we are supposed to obstain from one or more of our vices or wants (we gave up candy when we were kids, many more to choose from as adults). As far as 40 days without meat, I sure hope not! On Ash Wednesday, and all Fridays during Lent, we are to obstain from meat, but are allowed seafood and dairy. Very small price to pay for all He has done for us.

Just a thought - do you suppose the whacked thinking of Vegans stems from a lack of protein and other necessary nutrients supplied by meat? Hmmmmmmmm.....
Posted By: Bigswamp

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/14/07 02:44 AM

Genesis 3:21
For Adam also and for his wife the Lord God made long coats (tunics) of skins and clothed them.

As seen above “God made”tunics of skins, and taught Adam a number of things.
1.Sin required that an "innocent" animal blood sacrifice(which pointed to the ultimate sacrifice, by God, of the Lamb of God ,Christ).
2.How to skin, flesh, and tan hides for his(Adam and Eve) use as clothing.
3.How to properly make sacrifices.


Genesis 4:2-5
2And [next] she gave birth to his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
3And in the course of time Cain brought to the Lord an offering of the fruit of the ground.
4And Abel brought of the firstborn of his flock and of the fat portions. And the Lord had respect and regard for Abel and for his offering,(A)
5But for [a]Cain and his offering He had no respect or regard. So Cain was exceedingly angry and indignant, and he looked sad and depressed.

The children of Adam are the focus here,under God’s watchful care, they were instructed that sinful man could only approach a Holy God only on the grounds of the blood of a substitutionary sacrifice. Cain rejected this revelation and came with a bloodless offering of fruits and vegetables and displeased God.Abel believed the divine decree and offered slain animals, thus demonstrating his faith and his justification by God (Heb 11:4).He brought the firstborn of his flock, saying in affect that the Lord deserves the best. Abel’s offering points to the substitutionary death of the Lamb of God, who(by his Blood shed on the cross) takes away the sin of the world.
What the AR groups don’t understand is “Its all about the blood”
My point is a lot about the death of animals in the Word of God has nothing to do with food!

John 1:29 amp

29The next day John saw Jesus coming to him and said, Look! There is the Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world.
Posted By: Bigswamp

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/14/07 02:46 AM

 Originally Posted By: BuckNE
Oh, heck, its easy to counter idiot vegan claims that Jesus was some kind of vegetarian simply by pointing out that he fed the multitude with bread and FISH.



Buck I tried that on the first page,lol,didn't work
Posted By: doc9013

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/15/07 03:58 AM

I respect everyone who observes the practices of the Old Testament, but I believe the death of Jesus on the cross made all of these practices ( such as animal sacrifice) " unecessary" , for lack of a better word . You can fast all you want, but if you don't accept Jesus Christ as the son of God and your savior, you won't go to Heaven.
Posted By: Bigswamp

Re: The Vegan Jesus argument Theology at it's wors - 12/15/07 04:46 AM

 Originally Posted By: doc9013
I respect everyone who observes the practices of the Old Testament, but I believe the death of Jesus on the cross made all of these practices ( such as animal sacrifice) " unecessary" , for lack of a better word . You can fast all you want, but if you don't accept Jesus Christ as the son of God and your savior, you won't go to Heaven.



Yes Doc animal sacrifice was required under the old covenant, and the death of Jesus(the Christ) on the cross changed the entire system(New Covenant) from Law to Grace.I would not respect anyone performing or practicing animal sacifices,they are not required or needed under grace.To understand the New Testament, you have to understand the Old.The scores of First born Lambs sacrificed pointed to the Firstborn Son of God, Jesus the Christ, the Lamb of God, the Ultimate Sacrifice, who took away the sins of the world.
The above comments on Lent were not intended to imply salvation through fasting.
As Christians we fast,as the Word of God instructs us to do..For other reasons...Jesus said "When you fast" not "if"...
We are saved through Faith in Jesus,and he is the only way.
John 14:6 amp
6Jesus said to him, I am the Way and the Truth and the Life; no one comes to the Father except by (through) Me
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