Using ladder hooks and pur black

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqJ1DJEbPFI&feature=youtube_gdata_player. Not sure what people are using but this what I use ,if there something better please let me know

Ladders are not designed to take that kind of torque. If that ladder is rated for 250 lbs., that means when it is set up at the proper angle with the weight being primarily distributed to the ground. The way you have it set up there, you are gambling on the ability of the two sections to stay connected and not twist apart. Man, you are flirtin' with disaster... Just sayin'
Let's be careful out there guys. No amount of money is worth being permanently disabled for, (or worse)

Well I wish you would tell me a better way then , it's a 12/12 pitch and below is the drive way so the ladder could easily kick out , also thats top of the line ladder from national ladder . If I knew of a better way I would surly use it

Not that I have never done that with a ladder......In that situation I would use the ridge hook you have, we have one installed on a 20 FT section of an aluminum ladder that works great. A lot of people will also use ladder jacks installed under the shingles, and a 2 X 6 to support a ladder placed directly on the roof. Personally,I try to stay off roofs as much as possible,just don't bounce like I used to.

2 ladders, one to get onto the roof, and the second one with the ladder hook(s) on it. I say "Hooks" because I believe that style is supposed to be used in pairs, not just one. Or, you can just separate the ladder sections if the lower half will get you up to the roofline and use the other half as the hooker. How about a chicken ladder? Or you can use roof jacks and a 2x to support the roof ladder (better than nothing, but I prefer chicken sticks) sometimes the customer freaks out when you tell them you're gonna poke holes in their roof.
I have a type 1a Werner and I would NEVER use it like you have it set up in the video. Like I said before, they're designed for climbing, not scaffolding. If it wasn't extended at all, it wouldn't be so bad. But when you have it extended as you did, you put a lot of torque where it shouldn't be, on the rails. Of course, the more you extend it, the weaker the two sections become.

Ha! Albert, you beat me to it........

Get yourself a chicken ladder and an extension... I have been using this system from lynn ladder for a few years now and wont climb a lot of roofs with out it.
http://www.lynnladder.com

I have two like this bought two because shipping was free, and $5 cheaper than one with shipping. The thing is to heavy when you put a bunch of sections on it, otherwise works great. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CodvWrKYaTw

I do use roof jacks but real don't feel safe on them just nailed into 7/16 OSB . There really made to shingle over . I always make sure there in.the truss , a 20 ' ladder with a hook would be about 5' short on that roof . I know it doesn't look like but it is , I dont really see any thing wrong with setting up my second ladder, climb that to I get to the garage roof , then climb on that ladder that's laying on the roof it's very solid ,more solid then any hook or jack system , I guess I've never seen a chicken ladder what is that ?

Ok found the chicken ladder looks like about the same thing to me ,but harder to climb ,set up , we're would I put that thing in truck

holy crap....
dont take this in the wrong way, but posting videos of how you do work on youtube NOT in accordance with OSHA is a huge red flag, and awaiting penalties and fines.

there are at least 6 other locations on the house where you can access the roof and get access to that one location. on a 12/12 pitch, again posting a video with out any safety harness anchor point on the roof is again, a big no no.
If you are unsure of how to safely access a roof with proper tools (ladders) PPE, you should definately not be in this line of work.

I would recommend taking the OSHA 30 hour course online (189.00) for a start, get the proper tools, proper training, and then go from there.

People want to know why OTHER professionals want more regulations in this field? this is a huge example.

There Im done.

You can't use a ladder hook that's against the law

The ladder hook that you displayed in the video, the manufacturer recommendation says for using 2 of them from the same ladder while in use...

Has anyone tried this fall protection anchor? It is portable, water filled....no need to nail into finished roof.

http://www.gravisys.com/fall_arrest_water_anchor.html

I do have two I just didn't feel like digging the other one out , So if I use two I'm ok , I didn't even use the hook on that roof know need for it , I was looking at that chicken ladder on YouTube that only has one is that legal. That thing looks really heavy and no wheels, and im thinking it would hurt my rear end when I got under the over hangs and such

No haven't tried that one Dave how do you like it ,

Havent tried it, yet. We would use this ladder hook with built in anchor point designed for fall protection. See photo half way down page.
www.crittercatchersinc.com/critters/bats/bat_removal_control.html

Be safe out there...

Where did you find that setup Dave , looks nice I don't really like the hook as much as mine because that wheel really comes in handy when your 20' up and need to run it up the roof still .I think you and B&B have the best web site in are area , you two must really compeat with each other . His wife is really on top of things over there .

There is a wheel on the setup. Rolls real good. The hook part folds down flat for transport. It is heavier than your model, so we use it on a 14 foot.

pesky i don't often comment on others vids or tech's but if you want to tell the world your ladder is not on the trough thats fine , "i been there and done that" your ladder is riding that trough as soon as you get on it with that angle but oh well it's your customers

one other thing is why would you talk about your customer's investment like that on camera , sit down and think for a minute about what you said in that vid !

http://youtu.be/-JaVvBQc9JI

^^^ Just for you Pesky



Unreal isnt it. Sometimes your better off to keep your mouth shut and in this case the camera off.

I think people are thinking I was just going to climb up it as it set ,I should have set up the other ladder next to it , I don't climb up it from the tire , I clime on it where it hits the roof on the garage , I use two ladders , I know the ladder would hold me but don't wish to bend or weaken my good ladder , i wasn't even wanting to show that any way I was showing off my hooks and foam I like . I know when I got my first hook ladder it was a whole new world , I was thinking there could be some guys out there that dint know about the hooks , but I geuss you can only talk about that stuff at seminars or something judging by the response . I fell off the roof last summer and it wasn't good , it was two weeks before I could even try to walk , six weeks till I could climb on a house and that was one legged , I was lucky the way I see it ? . I try to write something on here people make fun of me so then I post a video I get yelled at saying I don't belong on any job holy smokes , I guess posting on here is reserved for the prefect people in the world

try telling that to the OSHA inspector.

WTH??? i wanted to watch the video and now its invite only?????? i thought we were all brothers from another mothers?

Funny guy.

Pesky's setup is one used millions of times each year across the country. Is it safe? Yes, if done with a second ladder which he should have mentioned. Is it osha compliant? I don't really know. Was Pesky running any risk of an osha inspection and fine? Absolutely not. Is he sorry he posted that video here? I expect so. But it is a good learning experience on ladder safety and posting videos here.

It can't hurt to shoot for bullet proof status when it comes to safety.

well said SGS,

This is actually one case where pesky volunteering his video created some discussion that I as one who just invested in hooks and a serious harness was interested in. So I will thank pesky for throwing himself into this one because for me you folks confirmed some things and an important discussion about safety is being had here.

From here could go on further and go away from what is wrong with his setup and instead lets see other folks doing it the way it can be done or sharing the equipment they bought like nic and dave shared.

My current roof needs are in one area of the state, otherwise everything is nice and flat for the most part and I am a bit spoiled.
Now I'm up on metal roofing with serious pitches and can see why so many guys opt for the lift and build it into the bid. I would still
have to get on the roof physically in places, but the back of the place I'm working on now I've decided to let the ground harden a bit and do
a lift rental versus risking my neck (the only neck employed and bringing in income in my little company).

So how about it, Bud had a good suggestion on the OSHA course. Last year I was trying to find a good rope access course that covered multiple
topics from roof rigging to other types of harness and rope work including rappelling and others. Ended up running out of time before company
launched, but am still looking into those types.

I took a rock climbing course professionally last year and it was worth the money in knowing how to make anchor points, be correctly tied in
and have redundant anchor systems. Still isn't totally applicable to roof work but the concepts in safety are very similar, other than in climbing you know you will fall often daily and hourly but you want to know your anchor is "bomber" as they say.

So lets move on and keep this going but in a productive way.

Justin

I can't believe that Pesky has serious falls off ladders too. ( Pesky, I've fallen enough so that my ladders were taken away. I have this really cool but very empty ladder rack on my van. )

Thanks for sharing, Pesky. It is great that people are learning and using the post in a productive manner. Remember the rules....no flaming...

Dave, I for one, am inflamable.

wanna bet? all it takes is a phone call.

Look at it logically Bud. With over 100 million work sites in the country, OSHA'S inspection priorities put calls from little old ladies rather low on the list. Add to that the fact that the inspectors would have to schedule an inspection, they're not sitting around waiting for a call. On top of that, add the fact that Pesky was probably gone within an hour and I repeat, he was in no danger of an OSHA inspection or fine.

I've seen that ladder setup so often that I'm not sure osha even has a problem with it.

Sqs, please review the fall protection standard for construction...and the defintion of a steep roof.

osha.gov/doc/outreachtraining/htmlfiles/subpartm.html

Reviewed as requested but I didn't find anything concerning Pesky's ladder setup.

Am I just missing it?

I've seen OSHA come out on construction jobs. One time I caused the visit because the inspector saw me on the skyline walking a 2x8 carrying a sheet of plywood, from the interstate. Said I needed to be tied off to something, there was nothing there except the rickety scaffold I was building. Inspectors used that and other instances as "teachable moments." I have never seen or heard of fines, unless someone was dead or missing a major body part. (I have heard that they are worse up north, where everything is unionized). Alot of OSHA regulations are downright silly, wearing a hardhat so a 3,000 pound piece of steel doesn't give you a boo-boo on your head while it crushes you, for instance.

You really cant regulate safety, it's something people have to learn to prioritize on their own. Some people are smart, some bold, some just need more experience to scare the bold into smart. Some will never learn. Darwin had a theory about that.

Be careful out there.

Sqs, you need to use a fall protection harness....in addition to the ladder hook set up. On the ladder set up, you have to follow the labels on the side of the ladder.

Tattle tail,,,,,,,,,,,lol


OSHA has not authority over Pesky concerning fall protection ,,,,,,,

Thanks Vinke. I've been looking for the regulation concerning osha's authority and finally found this...

link



Looks like you're off the hook Pesky. Unless, of course, there are even more regulations from the nanny state.

Except, there are employees in this example. Kids are employees...although they may be exempt from some employment taxes. The real risk is not the cost of the OSHA fine....it is the injury. Has anyone found tools to make that job safer? Be safe out there!

What the heck is OSHA? Operators Shouldn't Handle Animals?

Concerning OSHA not the ladder set up. One time I rented a lift for a very quick job I set the lift up and semi blocked slow moving traffic. Had out cones individual directing traffic and and I didn't have a permit to block the street. In a hurry I set the lift up jumped in it went up and was making an exclusion when I realized I never put my harness on. I was working fast to get done before anyone saw me when a man with an id in his hand screaming at me about osha, the harness, violating the law and I figured I wasgoing to pay big time.
He began to question me while I was still up there about whether I was a sole proprietor, was I the owner? I answered apolegeticall yes.
He told me I was exempt from the harness requirement but it wasn't smart and he was very sensitive about safety. A agreed and apologized again. Said I wouldn't do it again and he left before I came down. I have never forgot the harness again. Since then I have been told by peoples opinion I respect that I was not exempt.
That my personal experience. Whats the law?
I'm getting ready to start only doing moles and horse farms because I know I am only one fall away from disability or cremation and a lot of people need me working...cremating might work but I can't afford to be disabled.
I'd rather be in a gunfight than a fight with gravity.
I have done worse things than Pesky's video not bragging just fact but I'm not telling anymore.

Seeing that link I posted is to the United States Department of Labor Occupational Safety & Health Administration's website, I think it's safe to say it's the law.

So what if you hire someone from a temp agency? Just someone to help set that 40 foot ladder and hold it? This is why I have NO EMPLOYEES!

Sole proprietors are exempt from OSHA requirements .

Drink a lot of coffee to get through an OSHA 30 class. In this state it is only good for 5 years. You need to take the OSHA 10 class to renew it. If construction was done 100% according to OSHA nothing would ever get built. I just checked, Been six years wonder if I will have to take the 30 again? In the carpenters union up here everyone has to have OSHA 10, foreman need the 30.

Have any of you been asked to show your OSHA cert. on any commercial jobs?

I'm on mostly spanish tile roofs down here. I'm always afraid to throw a ladder hook in fear of breaking the tiles.

Wow! Interesting topic, great viewpoints. The best one is Paul Brooker's "I'd rather be in a gunfight than a fight with gravity." Gravity never sleeps. Thanks for your comments, Jordan.

Sounds like things must be differnt in other states OSHA doesn't stop people from working here , roofers dont use a harness they use two pieces of foam rubber to stay on the roof , I went to trade school then worked over twenty years in constuction and still have never seen OSHA or any body with a harness system , we do wear them deer hunting , Michigan was a getter done state ,now we're down the toilet , house are selling for 30 cents on the dollar . Poeple are loosing jobs faster than every , had three poeple in one day last week tell me they just lost there job . Cant really see this state coming back , GM ford ect starting pay now is 11 bucks ahour and 14 tops and most of them jobs went to Mexico anyway , nice thing lots of good fishing around there's hardly anybody out there anymore . You know your broke when you can't even fish ,

The law changed last year...and change is in the air.

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_wsh_enforce_policy_355668_7.doc

what ever the case may be, just be careful guys. Be smart about it, use common sense.

I use a ladder stabilizer to keep off the gutters, a ladder stop on the ground to keep it from kicking and then a ladder hook with a shorter aluminum ladder. The ladder stops are a pain because they are expensive and it's inevitable that an employee is going to keep leaving them in someones driveway to get run over.

Accidents happen no matter how safe you are. I was 3/4 the way up a 48 ft ladder with a ladder stop on the ground and was taken out by a teenager in a car. My ladder was secured to the home with bungees as well. I even had my truck partially blocking the driveway. Guess he didn't mind ruining mom and dad's lawn. Luckily I landed on my head!

Jerry, were you serious about the head part?

That was sort of sarcasm. It wasn't lucky to land on my head. It was such a mess that I don't exactly know how I landed. Between my legs falling through the latter and it whipping out from under me the lights went out.