Ran into one bat infested house the other day

The house had a bat exclusion done but they missed a few spots http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dY47tofnSBs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I've go to check out a bat job tomorrow. The guy seemed to be none to pleased when I told him I couldn't do anything to remove them before the end of August. But, I'll show up and spread some plastic down to keep them from pooping on the attic floor. That should make him happy for a while. Then I'll go back the first of September and put up my exclusions.

I have taken over 300 bats out of a house in just under 12 hours by using the DWL bat traps. I used 2 traps and a couple of excluder tube.

I just setup a flyer job , this new southern flyer that's moved into my area has been adding a few dollars on , my flyer jobs are up 300% this year over my whole season total in past seasons . I'm trying to just use excluder tubes on this one . Normaly I would trap them but seeing there protected I'm trying new ways . Plus this way I can do the exclusion as well . Had two calls on flyers today . I tell ya them things cause some major damage . I'm getting better at spotting it's flyers to . I got to say I love them little buggers . I've never tryed trapping bats before dew . That must be some sight 300 bats In one trap , that would make a great pic , Wonder if you could use them for bass fishing . Im still having trouble hearing you on FB in your videos . I will send you that link

Dew, What are you doing with your caged bats? I don't see the purpose of capturing an animal that, upon release, can fly right back to the spot you removed it from...unless your intent is to remove for off-site euthanizing. However, killing colonies of bats is completely unnecessary and detrimental to bat populations, not to mention it may be unlawful depending on the species of bat. Additionally, if you're not following equipment sanitizing protocols, then you risk infecting multiple colonies with WNS (if you're releasing rather than killing). Trapping may also keep you from becoming or maintaining a Bat Conservation International Professional Excluder status and conflicts with BCI and NWCOA National Bat Standards for bat exclusion, venting, and management. If you're doing PROPER and THOROUGH structural exclusion, then there's never a reason to catch those bats. Just vent them. The only bat than needs capturing is the occasional one found flying inside a living space or, on rare occasion when mandated by the local health department, to capture and destroy a colony identified as a public health hazard (i.e. rabid members of a particular colony). Bat traps seemed like a good idea at one time, but batproofing/venting methods have evolved, as has our understanding of bat behavior, the value of the resource, and the availability of better equipment for proper venting without capture, thus there's no need for the trap.

Are bats are already infected with rabbies . The health department is passing out rabbies shots like condoms anymore . He's just looking at them and showing his customer . People ask all the time how many bats are in my house . I don't know . Sounds like dew does . There's only one bat protected in are state and it's in my area . They don't live by dew

What Kevin said; there's no need for trapping.

Seriously I remember hashing out why you dont use those traps with Dew more than a year ago!!!
Man, what does it take for folks to wake up??? Just because it is sold doesn't mean you should use it!!!!

This is a public forum!!!!!!!

Well you guys can start posting some pic and vid of your work and show us how it's done , all I see is words . I know don't have time bla bla bla bla .

Pesky, by your logic if I shoot a video or take photos I'm now doing things right?

Questions:

1) In order to exclude bats do you need to trap them?

2) If your client wants to see the bats should you trap them?

3) Is there any reason outside of the dept. of health in your state confirming rabies and asking for a sample for you to catch a single bat
let alone a colony (outside of removing a live bat from inside a dwelling as everyone does at some point in their year multiple times)

4) Do you think it is appropriate to relocate bats?

5) If you do think it is appropriate have you inquired with your US Fish and Wildlife Service or DNR about any regulations pertaining to this
action?

6) Do you know the consequences of catching a bat colony and holding it captive in a metal box for multiple hours before you drive to the country
and release?

7) Do you think anything other than DOH asking you to catch a single bat for rabies testing would ever require the use of a bat trap?

8) Do you know that anyone wanting to use a bat mist net professionally to capture bats or harp trap must have a permit to buy it from professional sources?

9) Do you have proof of survival or mortality after you have released the bat colony in the "new area"?

10) Do you know that state and federal lists for threatened and endangered and sensitive species are different in most states, meaning you can be legal
on one list and not on the other by touching, taking, or molesting in any way various bat species of conservation concern?



On another note pesky, I have not seen someone use rabies as such a big stick in all of my career having worked in wildlife disease for over a decade on more than 10 different national programs. You discuss the rabies cases that are found as though all bats have rabies which means you are using the news media who report down and injured bats and those found and picked up without gloved hand or found within a sleeping quarters in a home.

You report rabies the way a reporter would report the flu by going into a hospital ward and saying 99% of people have the flu this year!

Please stick with what you know and stop trying to convince others without the background and knowledge to do so.

The meeting I attended with every state including yours represented state wise and federally on white-nose syndrome, showed me that not only are biologists and managers paying attention to exclusion, but they are also

and listen up on this one!

they are also looking at this forum!!!!!!

You and Dew if you are bat trapping are showing exactly what shouldn't be done except in very specific cases and telling all of these folks who can
and will regulate your industry and mine, that you don't actually know what your doing and that you are handling bats you shouldn't be in a very inappropriate way.

I won't sit in here and debate topics much anymore, frankly since a few months ago, this board has been taken over and I very seldom see the guys that used to post more that I would like advice from commenting. It has deteriorated to "hey look what I did" and the like.

Good luck, look forward to BCI and your state and federal folks giving you a jingle sometime soon to let you know about the new regs coming down the pipe!

Justin

I don't trap bats . But if I wanted to after reading dew post I would now what kinda trap is working . Dew is not breaking any laws and he's getting the bats out of the house so why all the negative vibes brother . Look at that bat job gone wrong Thats at the top of the page .I'm not going to say what company did that nightmare or what they paid . The people have bat droppings in there basement . Now there's foam sprayed all over the side of house . Urine dripping out of the over hangs . If they would have hired dew this would have been a done deal .

Is this forum your primary source of business training and development? Really? Eric Arnold holds a bat management course; NWCOA has a National Bat Standards Course; WCT seminars have had professional bat excluders as guest speakers over the years; and most professional bat excluders would allow you to work on a job or two with them to see the right way to do work (Attending ALL that training and years of OJT is how I learned). Asking us to post pictures so you can learn how to do right it is really lame. You need classroom and hands on training to do the job right, not just a couple of photos on a forum thread. Untrained and unqualified buffoons who do bat work but don't follow national standards for protecting the resource are the reason USDA/WS will one day be able to push thru legislation that will eventually end up getting all our bat work taken away from us and given to them. Get professional training, do the job right, and quit ignoring the pros when they give you sage advice that is good for you, the resource, and our industry. And for Pete's sake, learn to spell.

Pesky - When a bat contracts the rabies virus, it dies. Therefore, not all bats have the rabies virus.

Bla bla bla just more talk like I said , bat school that's funny

There are a couple reasons I use traps for the bats. I do not prat every one or on every job.Lets start.


1. if the customer wants me to trap off the bats it's going to cost them a lot more. because there is more in trapping the bats not just putting up a tube and letting them come out.

2. I can get a better look at the bats to see if there are any sick one .


3. I get a better count of how many there are.

4. If i relocate them I have a place set up to release them before I start. out in the country like on a diary farm the farmers love them.

I only trap in the city.

5. People like to see them go and it's not to the neighbors house. I'm not saying that they will not come back.

Instead of running your fingers on a keyboard give me a call (989) 358-8108

there are good points to trapping bats. to each there own I have been in the control industry for over 20 years. and i'm still learning I don't know every thing. but I'll do what ever it take to satisfy my customers.

.


Just because they sell bat cones or excluder tubes don't mean you should use them. you use what ever work to get the job done.

I bet this trapping strategy is costing you money....in terms of referrals from other operators.

Not advocating bat trapping, but, Dew is realizing something that a lot of people miss. Ultimately it is up to the customer to choose bat removal methods. I have heard of many instances of customers hanging up the phone with bat removal companies and taking care of it themselves. Vacuum cleaners and Raid, beaten to death by brooms are worse ways for bats to go.If the homeowner can't physically do it, they know someone who can, and is not afraid to, for a whole lot less than what many are charging. Cousins, nephews, and those roofers that work real cheap probably end up doing more bat removal than anyone could guess. Goverment goons are very likely to regulate bat removal right into the SSS category for most of the population, but at least they will be doing something on paper.

Better communication by operators can help customers choose the best strategy. This is a good reason why training is necessary in ADC business.

x 2

Dew, is a good friend of several years now and he and I have been on the different end of this argument for just as long. I started out netting bats, then gave the whole trap thing a whirl. Bats, homing instincts and relocation have their practical limitations." I can't prove it because I did not have collars on the bats, but I am pretty sure the bats had beat me back the last time I trapped any bats .

The bigger problem was just in handling these fragile mammals at all either crowded into a trap or got tangled in a net. I just don't see the point in handling bats anymore. The whole capturing to prove you got them thing can be proved just as easily by sealing up the home and promising to guarantee your work. I also would hate to see bat trapping and bat netting be taken away from us because they are tools that are the best answer sometimes.

" Traps and relocation are not BCI-approved exclusion techniques. Removing large numbers of bats from a building may seem impressive to a customer, but it is unlikely to be effective. Traps can be fatal to bats if left unattended or if overcrowding occurs. Bats have excellent homing instincts, so relocation attempts are unlikely to succeed. The bats will simply attempt to return to the original capture area upon release. Capturing bats at an exclusion site is not encouraged, although it is acceptable to capture a single bat for species ID or to removal an individual bat from a living space. "

http://batcon.org/index.php/bats-a-people/bats-in-buildings/subcategory/68.html

The other operators in my area are all so using bat traps. I was on a pod cast show with Robb Rusell he had a customer on the line. Giving the choice they would rather have them trapped and removed, then just excluded. I do not use this method on every job it's just another tool I can work with at this time. If and when they tell me it's illegal to trap bats in my state then and only then will I give up that tool.It not legal in all states to do this.

Davek sorry that this thread has gotten off the topic that you started. I did not think it was going to start a P1$$ing contest over how I run and handle my business. every controllers learns a certain way of doing thing and they stick to what they now. and do not look at the big picture.some controller like using just the exclude tubes in hopes that the bats are going to go to the neighbors so they can get another job off of them. If that's the case why trap and handle any wildlife that's being a niacin's. just exclude everything and hope it becomes the neighbor problem. I'm in the business to fix a problem not fix one and create another.

To save time I just run a extra long tube right into the neighbor attic . But what I'm finding is the neighbors already have bats . On the neighbors houses that are closed off to bat entry this system has been falling also . So I'm thinking I might need to start a feeding program .

dew -

so now nobody can exclude unless they kill or relocate the wildlife? interesting point of view in this industry to take.

i'm also interested if you can decide which of a 50-100 bats crawling around in a panic inside a metal box when they
expected to emerge and fly are "sick" ones?

if you can really identify sick bats in a trap you should really send an email to the CDC or WHO, I bet they would pay nicely
for that skill.

exclusion is to solve the homeowners problem, they have defects in their home that allowed bats to be there, we all know this.

but in your opinion they will move next door and so in this case you must go offer exclusion for free to the neighbor right?

if not how do you guarantee no bats ever again unless you exterminate all bats in your area?

the idea that you do what the homeowner thinks is best when they aren't the professional says you are not professional.

if I went to a coyote call and the homeowner heard a 330 was a good set for their residential yard, would I put that trap out?

this industry is begging to be regulated and AR groups are always looking for poster boys for the bad methodology that
entirely lacks any evidence of being necessary.

i wish you could see that you do not need to use a bat trap to exclude, how many excluders with 20+ years of experience
are using that tool?

how do they get by without this magical device?

like everyone i get uneducated homeowners calling for advice and assistance every day.

my job is to educate them and dispel myths and make human wildlife conflict the most reduced it can be while making
a living.

yesterday morning had a call where the homeowners husband had killed 3 bats the night before that made it into the home.
animal control, and other local law had been there and removed the bats. when i arrived she wouldn't even take my cards because
they have bat images on them. i caught a single bat on her foyer ceiling and animal control gave me a live bat they removed that
morning.

by the time i left after excluding she not only took my cards and texted all her friends in this village, but she also let me release
the bats on her property to return to their young, and is allowing the colony to stay till blackout is over for pups.

this is part of my job as a wildlife control professional, what i see in this thread is damaging to our industry and I only feel pain
seeing the unrelenting need to use a device for exclusion that should only be used in extremely specific capture needs.

additionally many people don't know they have bats for many years, so the idea that you will just roll down the block excluding is laughable
at best. 90% of homeowners won't know they are there and 60%+ won't pay if they do.

also I have to say, just because other folks do bad things, vacuum, smash, etc.... that doesn't make it a defensible argument for an industry
seeking professional acknowledgement.

i've seen enough here to completely understand why this industry is going to get twisted by the AR folks until they break!

justin

Funny, Pesky...

Dew - I understand that you are giving a customer a choice. However, choosing to offer this service is a morale decision. I wouldn't expect to change ones viewpoint on this topic, but it is good to know where a fellow MI operator stands on the subject.

It is important to balance the needs of the customer with the species of wildlife that has become an issue. We have no need for bat traps in this business. Bats migrate as part of their behavior - they will return to the home where they were trapped....or roost in the neighbors house. This is assuming that they survive the stress of trapping, transport, and migration. Personally, I would rather exclude every animal, than trap and relocate. However, this is not always an option for destructive wildlife such as rodents and raccoons.

Hey Dave I just used a excluder tub on some flyers and it worked good up in ortonville area . That was the first time I seen them up by you

Cute buggers, eh? I have noticed more calls due to flying squirrels. You must be racking up the miles!

I don't even want to talk about my new truck with 39.000 miles already .

We could trade areas I will stop going to ortonville and you stop sending your trucks to Bloomfield . Sounds like a good trade

I would not do that to you....you would have to give up your gold prospecting on kersley creek.

http://youtu.be/UW_GCoeW35o

Well Dave I can't dig gold in kersley creek that's a trout street . So if noticed my truck parked by a bridge I was trout fishing or mink trapping . The shovel is just for making mink sets and a walking stick .

Very good statements, justin and DaveK. Hey justin, your "shift" key is broken!
On a related subject, has anyone done any sexing of bats? I've got a bat job with the pregnant wife, bats in house, etc. Customer wants bats gone NOW.I thought if IF IF I could catch the bats humanely and they turned out to be males, he might go for it. Your comments, please.

Dave,

Sorry about that shift key, lazy typer last night.
My thought on your deal are that it isn't unreasonable
but for me would depend in how many in the colony
and what species and such.

The colony I noted in the last post were pallids and
we often see 10 or less in whole group, so a sample
of 3 or 4 might prove accurate. In other houses though
I have 2 or 3 species in the same house and wouldnt
feel confident without them being open roosting
where young would be visible.

Justin

Big browns are well hung....if that helps any. But, we assume that they are female unless there are just a few hanging in a louver vent. It does not take too long until the babies are flying. And, there is probably less risk of having them inside the living quarters, if you wait until they mature a little.