PESTT Act - Will This Help or Hurt You.

Pest Elimination Services Transparency & Terminology or PESTT Act

If this becomes law how will this law personally affect your business?

What percentage of your service area includes communities smaller then a population smaller then a population of 50,000?

What percentage of your business includes rural operations? large rodents including beaver, muskrat and nutria.

How will paragraphs 1,2,3 and 4 affect your business.

Might be a good time to start supporting an organization that can lobby?

Wish we had one.

Shouldnt the NWCOA and related groups be able to hire a lobbyist?

If it wouldn't be for the National Pest Management Association, I doubt that NWCOA could hire a secretary.

Pass the law....I will just get into a different line of work. Good luck, to y'all.

Baby steps.
What about the NTA helping NWCOa?

My reading comprehention may be low but it appears beaver, nutria, muskrats have been dropped fromthe class of rodents leaving unlimited competition to private businesses for those three. It looks like the small family run businesses got who dood by big government. We need an association that represents these types of businesses which most wildlife businesses are. I'm thinking NWCOA and NPMA lean towards buggery and wildlife businesses big enough to stand up to the government.

Am I to conclude that Mr. Paw was referring to insects rather than the ususl type of buggery?

Multiple organizations will continue to split the industry. Your voice will be too small to have an impact. The wisest trApperman will join nwcoa and vote in whomever they like.

Otherwise, expect to be working elsewhere someday.

For starters I think this is about the poorest representation we could of ever got from our any Trade organization. Pretty sad !!

Getting back to business here. I really need a consensus how this proposed law is gonna affect you . Please answer my questions.

My reading comprehension might be off, but doesn't it say in the bigger cities rodent control will be from private companies?
If you live in a small town that is bad. Either way government should stay out of it.

Reading the exceptions (3)....

Sounds like MI would be exempt, because it is regulated.....but lawless WI is toast.

No sweat, Dave. We'll just all pack up and move in with Krier.

Ok, can you bring a brewery with you?

Whats the population of La Jolla?

I do not see a way this will hurt us other than it may not be ideal. But I am interested in specifics from others.
It may take some wind out of our position on the political scale. But let see how it works out. Keep in mind this is not regulatory and USDA could still back out of the deal. We need to continue to work for regulations that will end all competition with the private sector.

Interesting that none of the USDAers are not commenting like they usually do.

Cody the PESTT Act did nothing more then make the PRIVATE WCO's plight even harder. Govt is inefficient, often incompetent and when it comes to WCO work in need of better supervision and criticism.

Thousands of WCO's whose livelihood centers around large rodents such as Beaver, Woodchuck, Porcupine and nutria have just had their business's gutted open. Private trappers don't even realize the days of the private beaver trapper are soon gonna become another great american tradition gone. The PESTT ACT also did nothing for your own company that specializes in Airport Wildlife .

This is gonna become law and you can thank NPMA and NWCOA for selling the private trapper out.

Robb, you've been the clearest in discussing what this all means and there's plenty of guys who appreciate that I'm sure.

Would you, or anyone else, like to give a common man explanation of the following....

What exactly did WS lose?
What exactly did WS gain?

What exactly did the private WCO lose?
What exactly did the private WCO gain?

SGS

I was hoping by asking the questions that I lead off with above to get a better idea of the impact then just shooting from the hip.

Personally I feel WS lost nothing because they offered nothing for the WCO to gain.

Here are those questions again.

If this becomes law how will this law personally affect your business?

What percentage of your service area includes communities smaller then a population smaller then a population of 50,000?

What percentage of your business includes rural operations? large rodents including beaver, muskrat and nutria.

How will paragraphs 1,2,3 and 4 affect your business.

Quote:
For the purposes of activities authorized under the Act of December 22, 1987
(7 U.S.C. 426c), the term "urban rodent control" shall mean actions to
directly control mice, rats, voles, squirrels, chipmunks, gophers, woodchucks,
and groundhogs in a city or town with a population greater than 50,000
inhabitants and the urbanized area contiguous and adjacent to such a city or
town, except actions involving: (1) federal agencies; (2) government entities
engaged in a cooperative service agreement with APHIS to provide direct
control of rodents as of October 1, 2013; (3) a state in which direct control of
the rodent species has been expressly authorized by state law, rulemaking, or
a local jurisdiction's ordinance promulgated by public notice and an
opportunity for public comment or as otherwise promulgated as required and
authorized by the respective state or local law; and (4) railways and airport
air sides areas. APHIS will refer all requests for operational assistance with
"urban rodent control" from private entities such as home and business
owners and associations to the private sector.

Robb,is this law for a single state with possibility to spread or for all the US.If nwcoa sat back and allowed it to happen this would be very sad.I'm a part time operator and yes it would affect me.

This is to be the law of the land for the whole USA.

Was nwcoa aware of it before hand or did it go under the radar.I know tonight's podcast is on a different subject but will this be talked about.I'm just at a loss right now- devastated.

General statement to a broad audience: See that is the thing...when you point fingers...there are four pointing back at you. Are you a member?

Rugged-quoting PROLINE from another thread. Yes they were intimately involved with PESTT. ProLINE is the founding President of NWCOA and held that position for many years.


No DAVE not a member. In Jan 2011 I refused to stand on the same stage in NEW ORLEANS with USDA WS and any organization who recognizes the USDA WS expertise (sic)in public. I have yet to have had a good reason to join ever since and short of a new Executive Board don't see it happening anytime soon.

Truthfully what would be the difference they don't want members opinions just their money.

If we discuss PESTT tonight it will be after the main show and not recorded.(after 10PM EDT)

So as a group of adc guys...we failed. Failed to unite...work together...get involved...contribute...and be smarter than the gov. And, there is not a chance that it will change. Bunch of stubborn trappers we are....

More losses to come.

Well I will stand behind and support what ever guidance and direction that comes from TIM Julien and Eric Arnold (Two past Presidents)in the future.

If they want to do a hostile takeover and slam the membership with new members to support a new direction I am all for it.

No Dave I disagree.We do need to unite to make sure this don't happen again somehow someway.If nwcoa isn't the way then we had better figure it out.Bats will probably be next.Sorry I offended you Dave,just looking for answers.

In this case, we remain a fragmented group. Your going to need everyone to be successful. You have a common interest with the guys you dislike. It takes money....

No Caca . lol

I have repeatedly asked for the last 3 years to resolve the fragmentation . I even invited all parties to our Rondi in Moultrie GA last year with this in mind and guess who never even responded to the invitation?

Rugged...I am not offended. I am just sad that y'all can not support this industry. This is an uphill battle and we are going to lose. If we all had some common ground, there might be a chance.

I pay my dues to support the guys that are working their butts off to beat this stuff. Hey, if there is even 1 guy that you like in nwcoa....you owe him your support. They volunteer, while we are making a living. Good for cc for requiring franchises become members, they get it.

NEXT? Rugged they have been doing bats for awhile. This was dated Apr 5, 2011 .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtt7nHznEa4

I can honestly tell you board member's with the name Charles are AWESOME but those words and a dime won't even buy a cup of coffee.

Well...it might be a lost cause....but a meer $250 membership might make a difference. If not, perhaps, it buys a few more years.

Good Discussion: Going back wards from the latest post; Robb is right on.

Dave: After over 25 years in this business, I have never been more upbeat. Every national seminar and every state seminar in the last several years, has been so much more professional and enlightening, that I really find it hard to believe.

Robb Russell has always been in the middle. ( And to be honest, there were people on both sides that didn't like his stand ) So when he says, "Guess who never (even) responded to the invitation?" Who do you think he's talking about?

Dave: The sky is not falling. Everyone thinks they need NWCOA. Maybe, but I know you need to belong, or even start, your own state association. A strong state group can do way more than any national association. ( You don't have to believe me, just ask the people that have won theses 'trapping' debates )

As far as this USDA thing goes, I truly believe that we as a company have not lost a dollar to their unfair tactics. ( I may be wrong, so if someone could enlighten me about their incursions into southeast Wisconsin, that would be great )

P.S. Not sure how many of you are aware of this but, if there is anything that you don't want to have read by anyone in this world, including any government agency, STAY OFF YOUR FREAKING COMPUTER!

I understand that the sky is not falling. I agree that the USDA has not impacted my business. However, for the guys that are passionate about this topic....this is an example of a good reason for the various 'sides' to get along. It's about time this feud ended.

I guess I'm confused on the whole wording of the
Pestt act! Are they saying that in rural areas the
USDA ws is going to go out and get rid of squirrels
Living in someone's attic? Or a groundhog out from
Under a deck?

I service only towns under 50,000 ppl so this topic is interesting
To me!

They now will have the authority to operate and expand anywhere the population is under 50,000. They now have the authority to do Beaver, Muskrat, and other large rodents in every zip code regardless of the local population.

Can USDA do exclusion? Can they fix the yard gate latch, or the broken step on the deck? I don't know about you fellas, but I see way more construction deficiency problems versus animal overpopulation problems. What is to stop them from delving into plumbing and electric work while they are at it? I can trap the fox, fix the hole in the hen house, and if needed, replace the chickens the fox ate. USDA can't compete with that. This industry needs to distance itself from legislation, and focus on the quality of service, which starts with an operator who is genuinely concerned with his customers needs. Government flunkies will never be able to compete with that. (I used to be a government flunky!) I like to think that there are customers who want a step above food stamps or section 8 housing,and the ones that don't USDA is more than welcome to. They deserve each other.

OK. Now we're getting somewhere.

I must admit, I don't get the legalese sometimes. That's why I asked.

90% of my work is in towns under 50,000.

AndyVA They have done a bat exclusion and an attic restoration including insulation replacement for less then $1 a sq foot for the whole job including the removal of bats, full exclusion , remove and replace soiled insulation. Watch the video from A All Animal Control. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtt7nHznEa4

Two private companies bid within .04 cents a sf of each other and nearly $3 a SF over the USDAWS bid. People they did an entire County courthouse in West Virginia for about the cost of attic insulation.

I have copies of the bids from all three parties in my files. Red Ryder was the other bidder in addition to a A All Franchise.

I have no idea how this piece of legislation is going to shake out but I do know that I'll be receiving first hand information from all of you guys the minute a problem occurs. I would like someone from NWCOA to talk about this issue. I'm not going to say any bad things, Dave, before I hear their side of the story.


In the back of my mind, I get the feeling that this legislation was connected to Obamacare. ( It's just a thought )

Why wouldn't nwcoa alert no members and members alike about this?

Mr.Baxter-that was my point all along.I am not a member but I figured I would hear the other side of the story here knowing that members are on this forum-not meant to be a slam at all.

I really don't want to be defeatist but it is just more of the same and quite frankly will change absolutly nothing from the current staus quo. On it's face it gives the rural WCO the right to have commensal rodents, squirrels and woodchucks refered to them. For urban operstors like myself it'sd business as usual.
Yes, I could make the case for running USDA out of the smaller suburbs but what is the definition of adjacent, it can be construed to mean the entire metropolitan Atlanta market.
The three glaring ommissions beavers, bats and birds means absolutely nothing changes for me. Especially considering the act of specifies requests from PRIVATE entities only. The bulk of beaver and goose work in metro Atlanta falls under municipal control.
Sadly the NPMA and NWCOA have expended effort for zero return. I could jump on the band wagon and trash these organizations but I won't. I think everyone who has read my posts over the years no where I come down on NWCOA but I'll refresh your memory. I believe in a strong national industry organization that can swing a big stick but sadly NWCOA isn't strong enough, national enough and doesn't cover the entire industry. Maybe I'm wrong for withholding my support of NWCOA but I still haven't seen the changes I wanted to see when I took on the task of representing NWCOA for the state of Georgia. No contact by NWCOA or it's representatives to myself or the DNR has been made. We have a small group of WCOs here who would love to hear from them but sadly it is not so. Well enough anout NWCOA and back to bashing the USDA.
Did anyone really expect anything different? I and others on this forum and others have highlighted wrongful acts by USDA WS time and time again even to the point of exposing felony criminal activity. As anyone who has ever delved into the operations of USDA WS knows they are a law unto themselves, literally, as WS in Georgia as in most states operates under a memorandum of understanding that places their operations completely outside the laws of the state. Can we, NWCOA or NPMA really expect a rogue organization like WS to negotiate in good faith?
If NWCOA truly wishes to resolve this unfair competition issue then it is going to take one of two things, only one of which is truly viable, the first would be a massive grass roots campaign to educate the voting public to make the issue a front page issue that will effect the electoral outcome for the congress and the second would be a class action lawsuit on the federal level.
The former, considering the mass ignorance of the electorate, is a pipe dream the latter in this day of easy litigation is entirely doable though liable to bankrupt the complaintant.

Guys - In a nutshell...

You need to look at the root cause for new regulation. In my opinion, the fragmentation of our industry is to blame. We did it to ourselves. NWCOA is not obligated to communicate on Tman or to non-members. It may make sense, or it may not. Perhaps (and I am speculating), they did not have the funding or manpower to defeat it. Perhaps, they tried, but failed. Perhaps, there was no interest.

Now, look for a preventative action to prevent more of this from occurring. Perhaps, a strong well supported NWCOA is the way to go. The sooner we realize that there is a common interest(despite our differences), the greater our chance of continuing as an industry.

If you want to read more threads (like this), continue the behavior.

Sadly the only group(s) I see making inroads on USDA WS are the antis. While I can't agree with their ulterior motives I applaud their accomplishment of bringing the wrongful acts of the USDA WS to the public conscience.
This is where we really need to step into the discussion. If we don't and allow the antis to fight this fight we will end up with exactly what the antis want, no wildlife control at all either public or private. NWCOA or some other entity needs to step into this fray and make way for a middle ground approach. I know it may be anathema to even speak to the antis but if we don't we will fall victim to them as well. I myself have done the same on a smaller scale right here in Atlanta. One of my better lead sources for wildlife removal is from a group that is probably the leading anti trapping/wildlife control organizations in the state. I and the founder of this group were often at loggerheads with him causing me to lose work time and time again. This continued until he and I had a closed door sit down and hammered out our differences. I never did convert him or he I but when we came to the agreement that we shared a mutual concern for the wildlife and that my methods were not based upon cruelty but on the welfare of the species as a whole we agreed to disagree and he became an ally rather than an enemy. I still have a special relationship with his organization to this day. By doing so I have hopefully removed them as an adversary for what we do and they can focus their energies on other evils of this world.

I make this post merely as a warning to NWCOA. Reaching across the aisles is how it's done today and I don't even see NWCOA reaching to it's own.

Nwcoa is a group with many members (including me). I am reaching accross aisles. Come on guys...get involved.

I read it wrong the rural wco is screwed.

Warrior, like I said before, I'm kind of weak on legalese. Just what is "rural"? Is it just population?

Sgs, if I'm reading it correctly this time it means that if WS receives a call for control of the listed species only from a private entity residing in an [b] incorporated [/i] area with a population greater than 50k or those areas adjacent to must referred to the private sector. Everything else is fair game for them to keep for themselves or take from us.

Dave I hereby appoint you the Chief negotiator ( I quit) and there are plenty of guys around to fill in all of the blanks.

1. NWCOA has some money claimed to be owned by other state associations. Its petty and costing hundreds of members by itself . This one dispute just figuring 100 members lost for four years @250.00 ea has cost NWCOA about 25K in lost revenue annually and over the last 4 years over 100K . My figure is low and beleived to be 400-500 potential members.

2. There are trainers like Tim Julien and Eric Arnold who NWCOA will not recognize as qualified trainers . For the record these are the same trainers who trained NWCOA's trainers.


Now go get em. Hope you are more successful then I have been. Start with Winkelman if you can get Paul to re-join the masses will follow . Good Luck!

Just don't reply to this- please make a new thread.

I still need to know how the PESTT ACT is gonna affect the common WCO in the US.

Here's the deal. I was going to discontinue my membership to NWCOA this year. I figured that this group of trappers was too stubborn to ever come together as a group (and I am right). I really never met most of you...so there is no emotion attached either way. I just minded my own business.

After talking with Krier, he explained that many guys laid the groundwork for the organization and spent countless hours of their own time to put it together and keep it going. Despite my own thoughts, I owed it to those guys to do my part to keep it going (if nothing else). It's an honor thing....to the past and present board. So, I write the check and forget about it. With the added expense, I have to work a little harder on my business. That is not a bad thing.

The PESTT ACT is not going to have an effect on most people. And, if it does, you will adapt and become better.

Gee Dave, I can't wait until you read my latest post.

Well lets see, the state of Montana just surpassed the 1 million mark in total population, I live in the biggest city we have Billings, our population is just over 100,000 and no other city even approuches that to my knowledge. My territory covers about a 100 mile radius and within that I don't think my client base is even 200,000 maybe more like 150-175. So looking at that PESTT ACT I'm how do you say in native talk, this pale face screwed like squaw. I talk periodically to our USDA-WS regional director and am usually left with the impression they are too busy chasing wolves and grizzly bears to worry about the small stuff I do. Being the level headed even tempered laid back individual that I am I'll just have to take a wait and see attitude.

Thanks warrior, that's how I'm reading it too. (now) Why can't they just use plain English?

Robb, unless WS starts to do squirrel and beaver jobs for home owners, I doubt this will effect me much but time will tell.

"The PESTT ACT is not going to have an effect on most people. And, if it does, you will adapt and become better."

I think that sums it up, pretty much.

Well Dave, I'm going to have to wait and see also but if the USDA starts taking business away from you, then you've got to figure the end of the world is close at hand.

SGS

I would not worry much about squirrel removal competition.

They can trap beaver now any zip code USA the population requirement is O and that is any body of water anywhere, any city, any county, any state. Thats Beaver Trapping Everywhere.

Talk about legalese para 2 is a doozy.

That term cooperative service agreement is how USDA WS did that courthouse in West Virginia I mentioned with the youtube link from A All Animal Control CEO Mark Dotson.

Paragraph Two This is where big dollars get thrown at local governments . This is a inter-agency strong arm agreement to work with the federal government. the federal government gifts just grow a stronger payment base between the feds and local and state governments . Incentives dry up . Competition
eliminated and the fed creates a unneeded dependency for overpriced services not just wildlife related. Remember the Affordable Care ACT also promised deep savings (sic).



and you guys missed these agreements mention a date in the future. That means its door knocking and palm greasing time for all of you who want to try to keep your rural beaver, muskrat, nutria accounts. Theoretically speaking a beaver agreement can grow into a squirrel, gopher, chipmunk or ground hog agreement because of inter agency agreements. Real neat stuff .


The PESTT Act is a wake up call and a call for arms - no not not weapons but for WCOs's to resolve differences and working together.

We are gonna need to lobby all under one Battle flag. MOU's are a waste of time. The PESTT ACT is proof of that.

The PESTT Act was a MOU Memorandum of Understanding between USDAWS and NPMA and NWCOA.

To summarize USDA was able to nail down specific work like beaver trapping and since this is part of the Farm Bill 2013 to be law.

There is enough legalese to do any work they want to anywhere under para 2 but I would be interested in if we even had lawyers sitting at the table looking out for the average small business Joe The Trapper.

I think the best and highest use of the PESTT ACT can be remedied by printing it on double ply, soft absorbent toilet tissue.

Before this bill USDA WS was not allowed to compete against the private industry (yet they did anyway) and now they will be allowed to compete with the authority of the US Congress. Real bad news.

We have nothing to lose and plenty to gain. Call Gene Harrington at NPMA and ask him to remove the PESTT ACT from the Farm Bill.

Contact your Representative in Washington and ask them to insist the PESTT ACT be removed from this years Farm Bill.

Wildlife Services is another breed. There is a big difference in trapping and having to follow the orders of USDA WS superiors whether it is morally right or wrong. The private industry can position themselves as the best choice for all wildlife services. Its gonna take some lobbying, image building to position ourselves in the right eye publicly and money. We can expect the government to spend money to position them selves as a sole authority making this a very hard task.

A quote this morning from a former USDA WS trapper. " I did part of the work in WA, NC and WV. It's the reason I quit trapping for years.

The private industry has so much more to offer the public and its time to raise awareness we can do it better. Local communities loose control of whats happening to wildlife around them when the feds step in. Why recognize the USDA WS when all the talent is within all of us as a industry.

http://www.skinnymoose.com/wildlifepro/2013/05/21/one-trappers-thoughts-on-the-pestt-act/

National Pest Management Assocaition
Government Affairs
P: (800) 678-6722 or (703) 352-6762
F: 703-352-3031
10460 North Street
Fairfax, VA 22030

Gene Harrington
Vice President of Government Affairs
gharrington@pestworld.org

One thing that may help NWCOA get members is do something for members other than charge 250 dollars for membership and for what?? I was a proud member until I realized there was no one doing anything for me for my money that I paid every year.I can use that money and buy equipment and at least get some return on it.Just my two cents worth but may be a starting point.I dont know all the answers but do agree we need a national group

Trapster represents way too many ADC people out there. I am not wealthy but if I can afford to buy first time ADC guys a free subscription to WCT, you would think a national organization could do something too.

This is a quick email I just sent to my representative


Dear mr.Langevin, My name is steve rouleau and I am one of your constituents. I am writing you this email to urge you to get the PESTT act removed from this years farm bill.I am the owner of NE Wildlife solutions http://newildlifesolutions.com/ in R.I. If this work is to be done by usda wildlife services it would most certainly put a crunch on my business as well as others like mine in the U.S. The government should have no business doing the work that private companies are more than capable of doing. Don't we have a MAJOR unemployment problem in this country? I am asking you to please do some research on the PESTT act,and to urge other members to do the same. If you would get back to me personally I would greatly appreciate it,I understand you are a very busy man but this is very important to a lot of people. Thank You, Steven d Rouleau

Paul,Im not talking about a magazine although it would be nice. I think they should offer some educational materials or something without having to pay extra for it.The patch that you wear around big deal anyone can have a patch made,I can use your name in my advertising that I am paying for Really???What a deal.Yes I know you get a discount on insurance from certain companys Why? I can and have bought the same amount of coverage from other companys for even less. I dont mean to bash NWCOA but until they can prove to me that they are there to help me rather than just take my money Ill stand alone.Membership to the NRA for example isnt near as expensive and they lobby for our rights all the time.

Steve, I for one appaud you.

Although far from ideal the PESTT agreement is a step forward.
To be clear the PESTT agreement is NOT the PESTT act.
The PESTT agreement is not changing the law and is not giving USDA more authority. It is putting some restrictions ( not enought in my opinion) on USDA.

It is in no way allowing USDA to do more than they are already doing now.
Please read the AGREEMENT carefully.

USDA will loose millions in revenue from this agreement ( not as much as if the PESTT ACt was put into law) but they will be forced to divert money from other programs and will be less likely to undercut us

I applaud the work of NPMA. They have done a tramendous job giving wco's a voice in Washington. They even listen to non mbers concerns!

Thank you, Wildlife2. Since I will be watching what happens ( Because I'm always looking for a story for my column ) it is always nice to hear the whole story. Time will tell.

You do not stand alone by a long shot.

Jim....I hear you. I had similar feelings. However, I did speak to someone on the board, and they do travel to different states to influence new laws. If they had the membership size of the NRA, then the dues would be pennies. I do think that they could do a better job communicating all the good stuff that is happening.

ADC is a tough group. Leave us alone, and we will self destruct. You can see it happening with all the fragmentation.

Cody you already know where I stand on this even privately. Sell it to Charmin.

That document is not gonna help to protect the rights of private citizens like Joe The Trapper or most any private wildlife control company it is gonna be used to hurt them.. As I said it is not wine before its time.

Forget NWCOA and quoting one of theirs voices NWCOA is meaning it is very hard for me to follow exactly what they are trying to accomplish . It is impossible to even find out where they stand on any issues.

and thank you Steven Rouleau of Rhode Island .

I agree That it is not going to be a big help But I disagree it will hurt.
I am glad that we are getting the pot stirred. No matter where we stand individually on the PESTT agreement.
We can all stand behind the fact that uSDA has to go!

Ding Ding Wildlife 2 your the winner. Unfortunatly everyone seems to think the government should take care of them and their problems Sorry Sorry state our whole country is in as an old writter in full cry magazine used to say Nuff said.