Characteristics of good lure

Everyone loves a good lure. Trappers are addicted to the notion that a lure is essential to their success; indeed, some feel that a good lure has an overpowering effect on a critter, leading the animal to the set like Pied Piper and his rats. And in a highly competitive lure-making environment, the advertising language of some lure makers doesn't do anything to help discourage the notion that lure has magical qualities and is the most important part of trapline success. Claims like "this one will put the paw on the pan," or "animals can't resist it," are so much puffery because lures don't put paws on pans (proper set construction does that). A quality lure is definitely a valuable assets -- as is good location, proper equipment, an understanding of the animal and its habits, etc. But what is a lure really supposed to do? I like how Russ Carman discussed it in his lure making book. Russ said a lure has two functions. One is an attraction of the animal to the set area, and the other is what he called "source attraction." This second function is where the animal attempts to locate the source of the smell, not just be generally attracted to its odor. Canines have a high source attraction component -- they have to locate the source of every smell, it seems. Cats, on the other hand, smell lots of odors but are too lazy, indifferent, disinterested or whatever, to actually seek out the source of every odor they smell.

So what are the elements of a good lure, be it commercial or home made? Here is my list. Feel free to chime in with your own.

1. The lure is properly aged. This means it has not only had enough time to combine and mellow all the odors in the lure, all of the decay and gasses have expired. A great way to test whether a lure is aged properly or not is to open it on a hot day -- like over 100 degrees. If you get a lot of pressure escaping when you crack the lid (or worse, you can see fluid running down the sides of the container before you open it), the lure hasn't finished "working" yet. One of the best examples of a lure maker who understands this principle is Wayne Derrick. I've used a lot of Wayne's stuff and his reputation as a quality lure maker is outstanding. This summer I bought a couple pints of lure from Wayne at the NTA Western Regional held in Hel l Hole, AZ. OK, maybe that wasn't the place, but you could see if from there. Anyway, I put the lure in the back of my pickup on a 100+ degree day and left it in the direct sun all day. When I checked it that evening I thought for sure those lure bottles would be leaking or busted wide open. Nope. Wayne had properly aged the ingredients and when I cracked the lids, I didn't even get so much as a burp out of them.

2. The lure is properly blended. This doesn't mean just stirred up, it means all the ingredients have blended together to achieve the desired result. Not that stirring isn't important. I still remember my treasured visit to Bob Jameson's lure making facility a few years back. I was amazed at the time and machinery that Bob devoted to properly stirring and mixing ingredients. It was an eye opener. Proper blending also means all the ingredients have had ample time and the right conditions to mix and work together. How many times have you picked up a lure bottle and noticed half the ingredients are at the bottom of the jar, and the other half is a liquid at the top of the jar? In order to get the best use of the lure, you have to shake it. I have a habit of shaking every lure bottle before I use it but sometimes I get in a rush and crack the jar, dip a stick in it, and realize I'm only getting the thin fluid at the top of the container. Now, this doesn't mean its a bad lure or that the maker used less-than quality ingredients (although they may have). Some ingredients are just a pain to blend. The most obvious example is an oil based material and a water based material. Sometimes the manufacturer can use a binder like Lecithin to get the proper blending, and sometimes not (depending on the make up of that particular lure). Just one example from a well known commercial lure-- Carman's Canine Call. I love this lure and its a proven lure, but it separates with the solids drifting to the bottom of the jar and a lighter, amber fluid at the top. Give it a quick shake and you are good to go. Obviously I don't know what's in the lure, but I trust Russ Carman enough to know that if anyone could make that lure not separate without detracting from its odor or makeup, then Russ would have done it.

On the other hand, many gland lures are bad for this trait. If the gland lure is heavy on urine and short on glands, then the gland part of the lure sinks to the bottom and the urine rises to the top. You can often tell how much of your lure is really gland and how much is just urine, but letting the bottle sit for a while and holding it up to a light. Not that urine is bad, its just that I prefer a gland lure to be that -- a lure made of glands, not pee with some glands in it.


3. The lure has a proper ratio of the ingredients to achieve the desired result. This one is a bit harder to explain. Obviously my sense of smell is not nearly as keen as a wild animal's sense of smell, but sometimes I smell a lure and all I can smell is one ingredient. Lures heavy with castor or skunk are famous with this. This goes back to point #2. Castor often "takes over" a lure and dominates other ingredients. Again, I recognize there are other, more subtle smells that I may not be able to detect so I'm not offended if I smell one odor making a dominant claim on the lure, but I sure want to know that there is something else in the lure bottle as well. This is complicated because some lures use a dominant odor as a carrier for lesser odors. The most common example is skunk. An LDC lure may use skunk as a carrier, but will have more subtle odors like weasel, mink, castor or whatever that is carried along with the skunk with the idea that a predator can smell the skunk at long distances and at some point is able to detect these more subtle "source attraction" odors and close the distance. Novice lure makers get attached to the idea that the secret lure formula is so much of ingredient A and so much of ingredient B. Period. There is a lot more to it than just the quantity of the ingredient. Some ingredients need to age or blend by themselves before being added to formulation; other ingredients operate in a synergistic fashion where they become something greater in combination than the individual ingredients can be by themselves.

In addition, good lures need to operate in all sorts of weather (generally), so the proper ratio of ingredients also includes things like freeze proofing, evaporation, and so forth. Going back to the gland lure discussion. A coyote gland lure will probably be used more heavily in spring and summer, so it should be formulated with ingredients that help fight rain and sun, since these conditions are more likely to be present when the lure is used. Martin and wolverine lures are most likely to be used in extreme cold weather so they need to be built accordingly. You get the idea. This leads to my 4th and last point.

4. The lure has been properly tested. I think I could write a book on this part. Proper testing, to some lure makers means "I sent samples out to X number of trappers and they all caught stuff with it." Well, that's not proper testing. I submit that few lures are ever thoroughly tested. I hasten to add that it doesn't mean they aren't great lures. But real testing means presenting the lure to the intended target animal and being able to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) the target animal's reaction to the lure under a variety of real life environmental factors. The fact that people catch animals on a given lure is only part of the equation. Let me give you an example. There was a cat trapper in my state named Scott Byrd. He regularly, either alone or with partner(s), caught triple digit numbers of western bobcats on public land. As I got to know Scott, I learned his method was a "blind" walk through set with an exposed trap. When I asked about his favorite lure, he said he usually didn't use any lure. In fact, he said something like "last winter I caught over 100 cats and I think I used less than 4 ounces of lure."

Now, what if the manufacturer of that 4 ounces of lure posted a picture of Scott with his 100+ bobcats with a caption like "Scott only uses our lure." I guess the statement would be accurate, but it wouldn't tell the whole story. Scott was going to catch all those cats with or without the lure, so the fact that a trapper catches animals with a given lure doesn't necessarily mean is a quality lure. Conversely, if a trapper made poor sets in poor locations, the lure maker would be the first to point out that his lure can't overcome all of the other deficiencies of a poor trapper.

Proper testing includes different climates, different locations, different skill levels of trappers, and above all, some way to measure or assess the animal's attraction to the lure. Russ Carman's book has at least one chapter devoted to proper lure testing. Really. Its in there. You just never read it because you were in a hurry to copy down the lure formulas!!!! Russ relied heavily on snow to tell the story of how animals reacted to lures. If you don't have snow, then sand is probably the next best indicator. My preferred method is a trail camera set on video mode so I can see for myself what the animal's reaction to the lure is. Its true that some animals have an adverse reaction to infrared lights and display some nervousness about a camera but I've found even spooky coyotes will come to a lure when no trap is present if given enough time.

To their credit, I have had a number of commercial lure makers send me a host of lures to try in front of trail cameras and give them feedback. I love the cameras because I can send the lure maker the video and describe the lure and the conditions in which it was used. The lure maker can see for himself the animal's reaction.

OK, those are the thoughts of a rank amateur lure dabbler/tester. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.

Wow Tracy, that's a heck of a read. I think you should start making/selling lure!

I have made quite a bit of bait, and have success with it. Last year, I made a pretty good sized batch of...lure. For the first time.

When I was a tad, in the late 70's, I sent away to the MN DNR for their trapping packet. In it (among other info) was several recipes for different lures. And they were the real deal. One of them fit my style...a curiosity/grab type lure. After I got done making it, aging it, and giving it time to settle, it smells exactly like one of Waynes lures, that I have purchased from him. I won't say which one.

Lots of testing, and it works great for canines up here. When I need a change up, or run into a digger, I smear it on a T-Bone, and by the time they are done licking it off...they are wearing a new bracelet.

Just a short story to let you know I have gone thru all the steps to make sure it would work, and if the effort gets put in, it does.

Awesome read! Printing this one!

A good lure keeps the animal at the set longer working the set making the chance of getting caught higher. So I wouldn't say a lure can't put paws on the pans but of course the set is just as important. I agree there are key factors that make a good lure but I have seen some crudely made and mixed lures so I guess what works is right in a sense.

I like a thick gland lure myself but urine and glands go together like bread and butter. I have no problem with a heavy on the urine gland lure. The odors blend well and the urine is what carries the gland odor. Shaking the lure before using mixes it well and even.

Your right on #3 . I would just add that the blending of odors and compatible odors is just as important as the ratio. Dominant odors are common in good lures you should have overtones and undertones and like you said the animals can pick lures apart better than we can.

There are a lot of angles on lures and the making of them which makes it an interesting and fun topic.

I have no idea what it takes to be a good lure but the animals will tell me when I test it. And to be honest they don't know if it's properly aged or blended, has the proper ratio of ingredients, or where else it's been tested or by whom.

Wow tracy way to make a guy think! I seriously doubt any closet lure/bait makers will ever go thru all the motions the pros do! My self included, Im continent with the half a dozen always reliable ones I make! The rest I buy! Makes me wonder of all the pros im sure they all got there one favorite concoction that always produces!. Russ also states in his book a poor trapper will never make a decent lure/bait maker .I wasn't offended by that but it was a tad harsh! Although I can see his point, if nothing else to lite a fire under some guys rears!

The whole separation topic is one of the hardest to combat! I've tried several things but certain oils want to separate regardless. Personally ive all but gave up adding oils to my glands! Over all texture is very important to me I want a lure that smears and stays. In my eyes a lure that drys up and flakes away isn't going to cut it! This is more leaning towards cat specific lures. If my yote attractants haven't shown signs of interest with in 5 days. Im questioning my location first and fore most! Certain bases are a gimme on yotes. If I got a good base and no interest location is always the first question in the equasion. And yes I will at times set on questionable locations just to satisfy my curiosity!

In the end its all about learning the capabilitys of a scent. Sure it might cost me a few hides! But id feel better nowing im not just tossing stink around with no ryhm or reason. Testing is and can be as challenging as actual trapping.. I love the videos you and a couple others post on critters reactions to new smells! I find that as intriguing as or more then a catch pic! My all time favorites are animals working a real set and getting caught robbing the pantry! I'm glad you cleared the air on cameras that flash! I've had very bad results using them! Sure I can get a pic but then its game over my next ones will be of the animal just at the edge of the pic and barely visible! I feared I was doing more harm then good so they never got deployed again! Dang shame got 10 trail cams collecting dust! This is a great topic hope others give their opinion

All that matters^^. I don't believe in a "professional bait or lure" . Good porcelain read, still don't know how a good lure that works for someone else but not for you could still be "good" because it's properly aged and the ingredient ratio is on the money. If the bait or lure isn't getting the reactions as intended what gives?

I think it is all hocus pocus to begin with. Who needs a lure to catch coon,rats,beaver,mink,etc? Number 2, there aren't any secret hocus pocus will catch every one that walks buy ingredients. Silver vine was suppose to be the cats meow last year,well??? There is an angle to make a sale when we read these things. Always an incentive or angle,always.

Almost forgot, I am going to dump a truck load of sweets in a well used pasture,then 100 yds down dump meat,dead calves,deer,etc. to show which gets cleaned up faster come December.

Great post, Tracy! I see a book in your future....

Great post Tracy. There's a lot of very helpful information there if people are willing to listen.

I struggle with the blending portion of lure making, always have an idea of what I want them to smell like, rarely comes out that way, but I have had decent success getting video responses to the lures. Testsing can be difficult as well, little things can ruin weeks of hanging cameras, not trimming weeds or branches can kill batteries quick, improper set up can show improper reactions, I remember a rub rock set up I used, the coyotes were rubbing the lure aggressively, but Wayne was quick to point out, if a taller rock had been used, their feet would of been on the ground more. If I had done that, I would of been able to study foot movement and placement better. Little details, but the little details make big differences.

When I 1st started testing lures with cameras, I was only concerned about getting critters on camera. Will this lure bring them front and center? I didn't give much thought to what I wanted to happen after that, I do now. I take more care with attractor placement, lure application, camera placement, very important to hide it for coyotes imo, and line of camera sight. Just messing up one of those things can wastes weeks, and give unusable footage. Simple stuff, but it helps.

Appreciate the post Tracy.

No books, DVDs please

Great read. As a novice it provokes much thought. I appreciate you taking the time to put those thoughts together and writing them down for others to see and ponder.

So if you make a bait or lure and get the reactions you wanted on "purpose" and do it consistently who determines whether or not that product is good? I have many hours of videos and pics of animals displaying reactions which I intended for the target animal to display in front of bait and lure. Would that bait and lure be considered good because it's doing exactly what it was designed to do and doing so for many others throughout the year? I'm not understanding what and who determines this or is it because a bottle of funk is supposed to smell like X, Y and Z? Does the maker have to have 30 years in a bottle to know how to properly mix ingredients? If someone solely depends on bait and lure to save their day, they are only hurting themselves. Easy to put something in front of an animal, but does the individual have the smarts to "properly" set themselves up to give them the best odds in successfully trapping that animal? You've hit on all of this, but I'm not convinced that any one person could be the judge of a product especially if the product doesn't produce for them. At the end of the rack bait and lure imo are made for convenience for the trapper to eliminate the investment in time and money.






If you put lure on an object expecting that animal to rub, then that animal should rub on it. How does one know that the product is mixed properly? That mean it's a good lure?



If you want that animal to dig, then it should dig and keep digging. How does one know if the ratios are proper?




Expected "footwork" at the "set", then that animal should display the intended reactions.

Great thread Tracey.. When I first got serious the lure makers used a term, " every passing animal " and I believed it. Never has been and never will be such a magic potion, bait or lure. A lure that gets attention in September may not have a bit of interest in Late November. Consistent attraction and reaction is what we all want when fur is prime.

I've tested new stuff from a few well knowns for years. It takes a lot of time and more than one season over various terrain and weather conditions before on the actual trapline to judge performance. Also it's the only time I make just one set at a location is with a new test lure urine or bait. Reason being, the other sets and attractors may alter the response to the test in most situations. Just because a yote walks by a set doesn't mean the attractors doesn't attract, lots of other variables we don't see or realize. We are not coyotes!

When you guys get it figured out let me know as I am considering maybe making a bait or lure or two......and maybe some new ones...just funning...Tracy , that was a good share and you have made more than one good bait/ lure....always enjoy your informative posts.....

I would listen if you shared some of your thoughts

I am still learning, matter of fact was in a lure making class that Gary Jepson held this summer...lot to absorb.

Great post Tracey. Thought provoking. I know I need to put a lot more thought into what lure I use, how I use it and what response I'm striving for (searching for source, nose on lure, dig, rub, excite to make him want to urinate etc.. ).

I have some secret Hocus Pocus.

X2

I think a lot of people would be surprised what they have if they would do som testing .

^^lots would find out that it isn't so much the bait or lure it's the ability to actually trap the animal that is the big problem surrounding "good" attractants. Testing is the easiest part and not complicated at all. JMO, It's the time and investment that discourages and prevents them for making their own or for their own reasons. Learning/knowing what ingredients trigger certain reactions from the target animal takes time. Bottom line..a good bait or lure is a product that will get the animal there and keep it interested in what you have to offer. If you're going to try to define good bait or lure you can't leave out ones abilities/skills in trapping as a whole.


It is not hard by any means to get animals to respond to bait or lure and consistently get the reactions on purpose throughout the year. Lots complicate this by trying to put pages of ingredients into a bottle and then buy every ingredient that is the talk of the forums.

I don't have "Hocus Pocus", wish I did. I do have confidence though.

]


Abbra CaDabra

Now I can ditch the tin foil hat and wear my wizard hat when making lure. Best advice that was given to me from an old trapper who made his own bait and lure was to learn to decipher what many think you need and think for yourself when attempting to achieve it. Back then it took me a while to maintain that discipline because everyone said you need x, y and z to do "blah". It's like when people ask for pros and cons from other makers baits and lure. So many variables come into play, you would need to judge it for yourself n the area you trap etc...

If you want a good lure, get that animal to an area and attempt to keep it coming back to exhibit the intended reactions. It's purdy fun when you can make the target animal do what you want on demand. That is a good lure IMO

Lazarus
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I and others appreciate it. No matter what you or anyone else post about, there will be someone that has to dispute what you are talking about. Always.
Keep sharing and do not let the negative folks get to you.

Mac

Mac the Bible tells us not to idolize others.

By the way, I don't have anything against Tracy for those who want to read this in a negative way.

^^^ Perfect example on what is wrong with bait and lure threads. Dispute? Sir, because opinions are different they are deemed negative? Or because those with different opinions don't run around playing follow the leader and yep others to death it's automatically perceived as negativity?




^^^^?????? I to enjoy watching animals react to products that are doing what they were designed to do.

Sir,if you purchase the "appropriate, properly mixed,aged,texture,odor" or anything else that is said to be needed in a good lure and that lure has nothing but negative results on your line....how do you justify the characteristics of that lure being a "good" lure? Because.....said so? Not all trappers have the same area, population knowledge, ability or skill set. A good lure isn't going to trap the animal.




so again....^^^^^^JMO Good lure will get the animal there and continue to be of interest when it is there while getting the reactions that it was design to get. Nothing negative about a difference in opinion.

Because you appreciate something that a person posts, you idolize them. I disagree but your opinion is yours.

At one time you posted some interesting things. The last several months the majority of your posts belong on the toilet bowl site with all the other negative nelly folks.
I should give you the benefit of the doubt. Maybe you are having a hard time in life. But I have to say you always, always, always look for the turd in the punch bowl.
Kind of sad.
Read your Bible some more. It is not your job nor mine to continually be the judge of others. Or are you like most and only quote what seems to fit your mood.

Mac

TDHP, I'm still trying to figure out what exactly your "difference of opinion" is here. I don't see anything in what you've posted to be in dispute with what Tracy posted. You initially asked a series of general questions about who decides what is a good lure and what it means for a lure to be good. Okay, so these are meta-questions about how we define "good" and what constitutes "expertise or authority" when it comes to lure making and its use.

I didn't read Tracy's post in that sort of abstract framework. For me, it was a more fine-grained (no pun intended) discussion of what goes into the making and testing of lures, and the potential complications and complexities that are inherent in a lure's life cycle from conception to final product. Granted, that's a huge topic to tackle in the space of a few paragraphs, but I think Tracy did a wonderful job of introducing some of those issues.

if I haven't offended everyone thus far, here's a question to keep the discussion going: What advantages does emulsification provide for a lure other than keeping the ingredients from separating? Does the chemistry change thereby creating an entirely new odor that would be absent by simply shaking the bottle to mix the contents?

^^^ Perfect example on what is wrong with bait and lure threads. Dispute? Sir, because opinions are different they are deemed negative? Or because those with different opinions don't run around playing follow the leader and yep others to death it's automatically perceived as negativity?

OK TDHP, I will not interrupt your self serving posts made to promote your business. I have not been trapping that long so it was hard to recognize your greatness as you see it. Good bleeping Lord.
I consider you quite negative but I suspect you just see yourself shining the light of wisdom. Maybe you a TBN could start up a forum for the real experts.
Russ Carman never ran cameras. He probably does not know squat compared to you. Whoops, I should have called TBN if I could recommend or praise a different lure maker. One that has forgot more than either of you.


Mac

Intermission. I need more popcorn.

Little spice to get the dust moving. Sir, I don't know what else to tell you other than you are 110% correct Mr. Carman has forgotten more than I'll ever know. The flip side to that is (progress not perfection) I don't believe there is such a lure. I couldn't begin to sift through his notes, nor do I need to. I spend a lot of time in the woods testing and do just fine when it comes to attracting the target animals and getting the reactions I want along with odor, blending and ratios. I respect but don't kizz arse it's not my thing. You have a great night sir and good luck this season.

I use to think tbn was a little too skeptical also but after 2 years of testing my formulations and commercial formulations and close to 300 hundred test sets, buying essential oils from some suppliers that some think walk on water that were definitely cut to make extra $s, and some of the things I've seen first hand I'm unfortunately starting to get skeptical myself.

I use to think tbn was a little too skeptical also but after 2 years of testing my formulations and commercial formulations and close to 300 hundred test sets, buying essential oils from some suppliers that some think walk on water that were definitely cut to make extra $s, and some of the things I've seen first hand I'm unfortunately starting to get skeptical myself.

Yessir
You make a good point. If you stick with this long you will become very skeptical about ingredients and lure makers. Sad but true. Ardell Grawe wrote in one of his fine method books many years ago about lures and lure making. I cannot recall exactly what he wrote but to paraphrase it was something like this: If I had to count the number of really knowledgable lure makers in the country I could do it on one hand.
He probably was not far off. My thoughts, maybe one could go to two hands today.

There is an incredible amount of promotion and hype in the lure business. I have no idea if you are old enough to have trapped in the last real fur boom. Probably not. If you are, you probably can remember the paper tigers that came out of the wood work. Well as crappy as the market is currently it is amazing the the industry is starting to mirror those times.
In a way one cannot blame guys for trying to figure out how to make some money from the game so they can still afford to trap. Cannot blame them, but do not have to fall for them.

One issue that almost never gets mentioned or thought about is the fur density where a lure or bait is developed or tested. If you live in Kansas for example (take a minute and do some research to see how many coyotes are harvested each year) it is a pretty good place to test lures on coyotes. It would not be a great place to test fisher lures but great for bobcats. Back over the past 50 plus years I have throughly tested lures that were the bomb in the Dakotas or Kansas for example that simply were average or below in areas with fewer animals. Test a fox lure Maryland and that lure may be some kind of super but might suck in New Hampshire and fox are not hard to lure. In fact a good many catches of fox and coyote have been made with simple edible baits. How often do you see guys selling fisher lure that have never seen one in a trap? How many guys do you see selling mink lure that are strictly blind set men if you press them. It is a funny business and not funny ha ha.

I probably should have remained quiet and maybe in the future I will. Every job I have had, a part of it is dealing with difficult people. I should know better than to attempt to convince a person against their will. When someone starts quoting the Bible and talking about hero worship I have to raise the Bull $hit flag. If you are smart enough to recognize when someone shares something that is sound and based on experienced, I do not think it is hero worship. But that is just my humble or not so humble opinion.
If all of you newbies had any idea of the caliber of the kind of information that used to get exchanged on this forum it would blow their mind. At one time there was a thread about lures and attractants that went on for pages. Guys with a lot of years on the line and not just perched in a computer chair studying video, joined in on that. Wish I had saved it. Times have changed. I have been blessed to have known some of the greatest trappers in the last 50 plus years that have ever been in the game. I honestly believe if Charlie Dobbins, Walter Arnold, Herbert Lenon, Sheldon Colvin, or Bill Nelson were on this forum there would be someone that would that would tell them they don't know what they are talking about or call them some name. I am friends with one guy that catches more water fur in almost any given season than most do in a lifetime and I have seen some dolt criticize his ideas and ridicule him on here. He only rarely posts. What a shame there are so many sexual intellectuals. We had a different way to phrase that on job sites back in the day.

An extremely large amount of people have become discouraged over the years and simply quit sharing. Those that continually strive to be of help get pretty tired of those that continually attempt to be the wet blanket on the party, and those that slyly attempt to self promote. Kind of like the guys that do not post all year until it is time to sell supplies. Ever see any of those? There is one forum that one can join and enjoy the atmosphere that is reeking in negativity. It is really cool. Check it out.
Over, out and done

Mac

Mac, I have been on this site for about 5 years. I cat trap and try to utilize my glands every year. I have learned 90% of what I know from this site. I get on this site every evening with the excitement of learning a new nugget. You keep typing because there are a lot of trappers like me who can decipher the print and are very appreciative! You sound like someone everyone would like to have a b/s session with. Have a great day!
Oli

Mac
I hope you keep posting. Anyone with 50 plus years of experience, that truly tests and understands what the animals are telling him and is not trying promote something other than the truth is worth listening to. We do have huge coyote #s here and I understand that average lures can catch a lot of coyotes with high populations. And considering that this is the only place I test right now I have to take that in to cosideration but I have tested enough in some areas to actually start to see individual coyotes personalities when it comes to testing and use the shy ones to test the effectiveness of the lures that show potential. Also by testing without a trap its easier to tell if they just came in for a quick sniff (which would have probably caught them) or if the formulation really got them fired up . I also make it a point to test some of the more popular formulations that are used and tested in all the different parts of the country so that I have something to guage the coyote reactions too other than just my stuff. Mac I tried to PM but it says your full up, I was going to send you some information that might have given you a little more idea where I was coming from in some of the above posts.Mac if you ever want to PM me or chat I'm all ears. Maybe I'm a bit on the inexperienced side and maybe I have dumb coyotes or maybe I've been really lucky but it seems in my area that it's not that difficult to come up with some stuff that will stack up against some of the more popular stuff out there even on the less responsive ones. And I only share that to help encourage others out there that might be interested in giving it a go themselves. I will say that one has to being willing to do a lot of testing not just a couple of positive responses and a coyote or 2 in a trap.

.honestly I've become skeptical over the last couple years with the makers of baits, lures and urine suppliers. Why, because I hear a lot of bad about this industry about dishonest makers trying to make good on other trappers wallets..kinda sad if you ask me...who can you trust? Thought I could trust in several makers but lately I just hear bad about certain ones...I hear all the time you can't use this you can't use that but after testing what you shouldn't use for a couple seasons I've had better responses from coyotes in areas that never went to a commercial bait...not sure why...makes me wonder if it's put out there to side track a trapper so they can buy the baited and lures from a real maker.. Heck idk..

I buy very little lure and no bait.

The problem I see is for new trappers to wade thru all the BS to get good solid info and get a good solid foundation to start with. The trappers that have been at it a while see thru it but the new guys get totally confused. All it really takes is good common sense. Ardell was spot on, still only a handful of makers out their with the knowledge to make good stuff, he still is one. If the coyote market goes away so will most of the makers. There are very few lures that work for coyotes here every season, the lures that do I cherish.

Please keep posting Mac, Us old dudes need to keep sharing.

#661525709/12/19 01:11 PM
Lazarus OfflineOP
trapper
L

Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,117
Nevadafornia
Everyone loves a good lure. Trappers are addicted to the notion that a lure is essential to their success;

Very true statement. I'm GUILTY.
For most trappers the best part of a Trapper's Convention is walking into the building where all the lures and baits are. Smells like what? Heaven? Victory? Memories? Maybe the first time you went to the local fur buyers?

And women are addicted to the notion that some new perfume, shampoo,or lotion is essential to their success. And they have spent billions and billions on them from the beginning of time. What are they trying to catch?
You'll never stop women from buying attractants. It's as essential to their method of operation, as bait and lure is to a trapper. No matter if homemade lure and bait or store bought.

So, i don't begrudge a man for spending a few dollars on lure and bait. Or a few hundred.
It is a learning process buying lure and bait.
Experimenting, Setting traps,catching, testing ingredients, baits, lures,spending money,formulating, Time and experience will take care of itself.


Most if not all we learn and obtain from a life time of trapping and testing traps and lure will end up where our final destination is. The dust.

So try to help a new comer to the Trapping World. Consider becoming a State Instructor for gun, bow or trapping.There is a shortage of instructors. Maybe give a demo. The kid you help today may be the leader of tomorrow

Enjoy the day.

I enjoy reading every ones posts and the various opinions.

Good stuff
Can you clue us(me)I’m on the good makers sir.

Thanks

As I sit here reading the 3 pages of posts, and now expecting it to go to 6 lol, my thoughts are many. First, the starting post was a good read. Do I agree with everything said? Nope, but the post forced thought, at least for folks who are open to hearing other thoughts. One thing I tend to see and guilty myself is, we as a whole tend to lock in on what we think and reject anything that is different than what we are thinking. For me when I get this way it is a pride issue. And I try to look at it differently. I can’t speak for anyone else. We all have thoughts and do what we like.
I am a call maker and go to many shows peddling calls. At one show a somewhat opinionated (nicest word I can say but thinking stronger) duck hunter came to the table picked up a call, and I will tell you, he made it sound like something out of a horror movie!!!! There were a few folks around the booth with the same look on their faces as I had. He takes the call, tosses it on the table and said JUNK!!!! LOL, I reach down to pick up the call, and yes blew it right after he did with him and everyone else watching. It sang flawlessly. My son was there so I hand him the call without saying a word, he takes it and again sings like an instrument. I again take the call without a word and hand it to one more person I knew could make a call WORK, and he does the same thing. Someone I didn’t know that was watching and most likely as annoyed at this person as I was, looked at him and said, looks like you need to learn how to blow a duck call.
There is no such thing as a bait or lure that will work for everyone or every situation. But if the person Really wants that product to work, they will find the situation and the locations it does work, and the same when and where it doesn’t work.
I am sure there may be a few snake oil salesmen out there. But I have not met a bait and lure maker yet, in the trapping, deer scent or fishing scent arena that is willing to take a product, put their name on it and spend the time and money to put it out on the market knowing it does not work in the situations that they have tested it and use it. Yes, there are some products that work better in more places and work better with folks that do not understand, YES. But I can take anyone’s products and make them not work and take that same product and make it work if I spend the time to figure that product out. And Yes, just like the duck hunter I told you about, (Who by the way was a comp caller for another call company lol) there will be folks that will make a product not work on purpose.
The obvious to an experienced trapper, yet we never talk about, but know, without the right location, population, proper set for the location, set construction, trap selection and trap placement the catch rates will not be there. If we do not have the above, I at least expect less than desired results. When we have all the above, we use the bait/lure as a tool to aid us, to make our job easier. We do not think of it as a magic flute. Just a tool to fill in the gap. The newer trapper who does not understand the above only thinks method and Baits/lures because that is what we the experienced mostly talk about.
Whether we like it or not, marketing is a part of sales. And who is going to even look at a product that the manufacturer does not talk positively about? My son and I just finished an outdoors show this weekend. Deer scents were our main products being sold with predator calls and waterfowl calls also. Now If I do not talk positively about my deer scents, then who will look at them let alone buy them. I make products to sell so I can b pay my bills. But on every new person looking at my products, I take the time to tell and show (I have a little spot set up to show how) them exactly to use them, how when to use them and why to use them. I can tell you which folks will be back next year to buy the products again and tell you who will not just from that conversation. The same is true from trapping conventions. Take a look at the deer scent marketing, and trapping marketing is a lot more honest than the high dollar deer scent industry. And both waterfowl call and deer scent competitors they will stab in the back, cut the throat and stomp each other in the mud. My son said to me last night I wish these folks could be like trappers so much more fun to do a show. In closing LOL, For all of you out there saying that your products are the best, you are mistaking because mine is LOL

I YI YI

There you have it folks. :-)

Is that a secret ingredient or just what it sounds like when you find a good one? I was hoping Mr Derrick would throw us peons a crumb of wisdom.

I was in the shower and the thought that this post could be taken out of context as sarcasm which was not its intent. I respect any information Mr Derrick would share. Just wanted to make that clear in case anyone was wondering.

A good as good as you can get base is as important as anything you add. The base needs to be atractive to an animal. Some makers might not agree be for me that is the starting point. Then build on that
After you have been after it awhile you get to where you know what works with what. I brake all the rules just to see why some things will not work with what ever.
Get the best of everything you can. Be it musk ,glands ,oils even the best mixer or blender or grinder. When I started the best I could get was a used blender and a hand grinder.
Have fun and welcome to a new addction

Great post Gary. Hit the nail on the head.

I have done a lot (too much) of experimenting over the last 5 years. I'm finally getting smart, and simplifying my lure selection. I know what works, and am going to just use that. No more looking for the magic bullet.

If I'm using Caven's or Derrics, and they are working...I could use Dobbins or Lennon's...and they would work, too. But, I'm just going to use 2 or 3, instead of 6. And I made 5 gallons of bait that the K9's love where I trap, and that will last me until I'm done trapping. I think.

Simple...couple lures that work, a bait that works all season, done. KISS...

I can't do it, I gotta have at least 3 glands and 6 more food/curiosity and a few new ones, IMA addict, LOL.. The key is put it where they'll fall on it.. and learning the animal.

There it is, right there. Dam near anything will get 'em stomping around a little, if it's put where they want to be.

A large part of the romance and mystic of trapping is captured in lures. I'm like trappergbus. I love trying out new stuff. I love smelling baits and lure. I get excited when I smell a skunk. Trapping wouldn't be the same for me if all I did was make blind sets. I prefer to hang on to some of the enchantment I felt as a kid, cracking open a bottle of lure and wondering what made that smell so wonderful.

Inferiority complex...….where one degrades others accomplishments to make theirs seem greater...….With that said there is a lot of good stuff out there

There are a whole lot more baits and lures for sale that I have not tried than those I have. Some of the stuff I have bought was mediocre and some worthless. Most worked and a couple really worked. I spent a little time working on a bait that is probably really a lure and I use it a lot. I buy a couple lures. I collected urine and still have a cage for it. When I figured out how sorry what I had been buying urine wise was I didn't think I would ever buy any again. I have changed my mind on that but it is a sure enough certainty that a lot of junk pee is being sold.

I think a description of a great lure is pretty simple. 90% or more of the target animals that find it should respond. At least by putting their nose right on it for a second or two. Most of them should stay there, sniffing rubbing and moving their feet around. If its in a hole k9's should stick their nose right down in the hole. Try to dig it out. Rub their head on it, pee defecate etc.

The word marketing is often used when a product is being lied about. I believe it is possible to market without lying and lots of people do market with truth. Lots "market" with lies also.

Yep! What Danny said

I see that a lot Cletus, makes me ill. Not you but others. Good stuff sells itself without all the BS and all the negativity. I have a lot of negative stories from past experiences with some big names in the past, but I don't go there. In the end they'll get bit

Mac my friend, you are correct. TMan used to be a much different place to share knowledge, with the goal being to share and share alike. I share lure and bait formulating help, but not on an open forum of any sort.

Wayne, a man with the experience of many years, is spot on: A base is where a lure starts most often. Baits too.

I've always wondered why us lure makers get along pretty darned good, and why those who don't make lures commercially are the opinionated? I always say howdy to Wayne, John G., Bob J., Tom M., and a host of lure makers at the shows. We know the effort goes into each bottle

There sure enough was some heated debate among some good trappers that dont post here anymore