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What lure ingredients?

Posted By: steeltraps

What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 06:43 PM

OK. Here is my question. What lure ingredients get stronger with water? As in. = If you added water to = It would smell stronger after you added water to it?
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 07:37 PM

Chris,

I am not sure if this is helpful or what you are looking to find, but this is how I see water in my experience.



Water can act as a carrier, a volume enhancer/extender, a product activator and a diluting agent. It is not considered a solvent or odor enhancer per se' in my experience.

Water " can " be used to re constitute dehydrated materials as needed. Most things generally speaking become weaker with the addition of water.

That being said, some powders / water soluble crystals or powdered "once active" materials would have some increased odor release due to adding water and allowing evaporation to release the active odor.

There are solvents and other fluids that will help extend and hold a desired active odor ingredient for use in formulas. Tincturing and distilling are two processes of odor enhancing a material.

The problem with water as a carrier / stand alone can have a short limited " carrier " active life due to natural occurring evaporation under non freezing temps.

If the enhanced material is blended with water and is held in a container/bottle it will hold longer until it is dispensed. Lots of variables can be discovered after it is stored for a period of time.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 07:59 PM

Mr. Jameson. Thanks I quess I should have been more on what im looking for. Here is my problem = Excessive rain = SO got me thinking ? What lure ingredient that is attractive to coyotes could be used so that WHEN it rains heavy it would smell stronger? Does such an ingredients exist? Like if you were to say = Rhodium oil. Gets stronger when it gets wet. Is it possible to make a coyote lure that gets stronger after a rain???
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 09:03 PM

I'm thinking a dead cow ST. grin
But I like ur way of thinking if there was something that could do that.
Posted By: kytrapper

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 09:06 PM

I got into elbow pockets a while and would dribble diluted spoonbill oil in them. Every time the creek got up over them and went down I could smell it well before I got to them. Don’t know if that helps any but you might think on that.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 09:32 PM

Spoon bill oil would work. I use = Fish oil in a pipe. Problem their? Rain. Makes oil go out of the pipe and all round the coyote set. Make foot placement an issue with fish oil everywhere So now just a lite squit of fish oil down pipe. NOT full like i tried before. OK. What is = elbow pockets???
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 09:34 PM

Originally Posted by Yes sir
I'm thinking a dead cow ST. grin
But I like ur way of thinking if there was something that could do that.

Maybe their is ? What IF I could come up with a lure or lure ingredient that got stonger with rain ??? I know skunk seams to smell more on a rainy day BUT that want work in hot summer as well OR on lots of sets
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 09:49 PM

There could be. That's the fun and challenge of being a lure maker. Maybe an oil base lure and use a grab and die type of lure holder that the lure can soak in. We don't have as much rain as u thank goodness but I did catch a coyote on my own lure 82 days after luring in a step down dirt hole that had been under water several times and frozen solid. Not saying I'd depend on this working regularly. Lol
Posted By: kytrapper

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 09:59 PM

Elbow pocket mink sets. Had several coons stick their heads in the top 110.
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 10:10 PM

I think you may be miss judging the potential of a good lure or bait. Trout Oil or a spoonbill oil has good odor. You don't need much. Some good lures have this in them already.

If a product is built well it will hold up quite well to lots of rain or snow over a period of time..

Flooded dirt holes or heavily rain soaked lure displayed elevated will hold odor much longer then most may realize. Many years I have gone out with students in April , May and June.

A good 3-4 months after the close of the season. Many sets that we covered during those training days showed sign of still being visited.

Digging, scratching, and some even had the odor of fresh urine I could detect. I had the students get on their knees to smell the grass tufts and dirt at the sets.

Some locations had droppings left behind that were not there after my line was pulled.

Working lines that may be out for 2-3 weeks or a month those sets shouldn't need much attention after they have been lured/baited initially.

You will be making catches of target and non target species along the way. So things will get attention once again to some degree or another, Depends on how you roll.

If I have the feeling after some time, that a set " may " need attention "and most likely it doesn't" we just get impatient. I will squirt a little good urine/ or liquid bait to spike the set location.

" No more lure " is rarely needed in most situations. Particularly in such a short time period.

When in doubt ,take a dog out to those locations that you feel may need an odor boost and see how the dog reacts to that set or sets.

I am betting you will get the answer or some relief in wanting to boost your set odor. Just keep in mind that more is not necessarily better when working canines.

Particularly if you may be working some seasoned cautious animals.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 10:28 PM

Bob. I guess im asking alot out of a lure. I know it works. As you discribed. I have seen it 4 months latter when I returned. I quess im looking for = something that sticks well - smells loud enough to call one over BUT at the same time = works with caution coyotes that are trapped basicly year round. Plus i only want to apply it 1 time for 3 weeks threw 9 inchs of rain. Just have some weather concerns and concerns on lure habitualization. Got me thinking about = this topic. Worked on = better lure holder. Really like = sheeps wool. BUT i go 39 miles up the road. Everything messes with it. Thanks for advice. Just something that popped into my head
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 10:43 PM

If you need to alter or improve a lures water proof qualities that can be done. Or get a lure or lures that already have those qualities built into them already.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Bob Jameson
If you need to alter or improve a lures water proof qualities that can be done. Or get a lure or lures that already have those qualities built into them already.

Thanks Bob. To be honest. I pretty much expected the answer you gave. But to here it from you makes me fell better. Im just got worried about all this rain and impaintents and self doubt creep in. I all ways pick up my lure stick when im done. And I rarely dig a dirt hole. I use 3/4 pvc for bait holder. Bush for backing. Like Wiley Carrols bamboo pipe set. I have been on this place now for almost 9 year. 3 times a year. New biologist out of college thinks i need 1 more week here. I appreciate the money. BUT I honestly dont see the need. 3 days after monsoon rains and no tracks. I told the owners how I feel. Just dont think anything is left to catch. But biologist just out of collage they hire now does. This is making me very anxious. Worried about lure that i now kills coyotes. Just lots of rain. Lots land and no coyote tracks. Has be thinking of all kinds of stuff! LOL!
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/29/22 11:40 PM

You use your own judgement Chris. Don't let someone without your experience dictate to you what you do, or to make you second guess your abilities or skills.

We have to make calls in the field as to what we feel is the right thing to do and what the sign is currently telling you. Always trust your instincts and stand your ground if that is how you feel.

I have had some run ins with those thinking they know better them me. I tell them how it is and if I don't feel right I get paid to that point and they can hire someone else.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/30/22 12:09 AM

Thanks Bob. I told the owners how I feel. Dont want to take their money for extra days. Whats funny is some of the tracks the biologist say. He saw = the tracks under the gate they went up the road. He said —- I saw were that coyote stomped around and felt. I SAID he didnt leave. Thats the 1 in my pics of female on a drag in weeds by stump. Biologist thought = all my traps where. As he said = chain to the ground. SO this biologist doesnt know the difference between = a staked trap and 1 on a 10 ft drag = as far as how they look when they leave out with a drag. LOL! Kind of funny when you think about it
Posted By: Slipknot

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/30/22 12:58 AM

St i too have been pondering these very same things with all the rain we been getting. One thing that i have thought of but not tried. Is on the bait pipe is putting a tee on top or a elbow on the pipe to protect the bait some. The other was Lanolin base in the bait but that was just a thought Mr. Bob would have to weigh in On that ..Some Biologists well I'll leave it at that. I just bought a box of stuff from Mr. Bob the other day and I hope I bought a jar of that stuff that works for 3 or 4 months after season. Lol Just kidding I know Mr, Bobs stuff is top shelf.
Posted By: danny clifton

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/30/22 09:00 AM

A flat set made with sac oil works through rain. Sac oil is not great as a stand alone but it will catch a few.
Posted By: Dragger

Re: What lure ingredients? - 08/31/22 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by steeltraps
Originally Posted by Bob Jameson
If you need to alter or improve a lures water proof qualities that can be done. Or get a lure or lures that already have those qualities built into them already.

Thanks Bob. To be honest. I pretty much expected the answer you gave. But to here it from you makes me fell better. Im just got worried about all this rain and impaintents and self doubt creep in. I all ways pick up my lure stick when im done. And I rarely dig a dirt hole. I use 3/4 pvc for bait holder. Bush for backing. Like Wiley Carrols bamboo pipe set. I have been on this place now for almost 9 year. 3 times a year. New biologist out of college thinks i need 1 more week here. I appreciate the money. BUT I honestly dont see the need. 3 days after monsoon rains and no tracks. I told the owners how I feel. Just dont think anything is left to catch. But biologist just out of collage they hire now does. This is making me very anxious. Worried about lure that i now kills coyotes. Just lots of rain. Lots land and no coyote tracks. Has be thinking of all kinds of stuff! LOL!


I use cameras before, during, and after trapping on some jobs. Clears up doubts.
Posted By: Golf ball

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/01/22 01:07 PM

Chris I know you are using a pipe for a bait holder now , if you use it like Mark Zaggers intended it will help with the water situation you’ve got going on down there. Cut those pipes 10” long, drill a 1/4” hole cross ways about 2” down from the top and never drive it below this hole . The idea is by driving the pipe in at an angle you are protecting one side from the rain and if the hole fills with water it will leak out at the 1/4” hole. [Linked Image]
These might be 3/4” and 1” ID and they both work well for me , the smaller 1/2” pipe did not work as well , it was just too easy for a coyote to pull out of the ground. I don’t use these as a visual ( but I guess you could ) I hide them in a grass or weed clump or bean stubble or corn stalks or..... the point is I want a coyote hunting for the smell not looking at the pipe trying to decide if he wants to come any closer.

P.S. the 1/4” hole also helps with air movement and dispersal of stink,lol.
Posted By: Lazarus

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/01/22 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by steeltraps
OK. Here is my question. What lure ingredients get stronger with water? As in. = If you added water to = It would smell stronger after you added water to it?


Back to the original question, Disposable Fly Trap bait. Laugh at me now, believe me later. Read the ingredient label and then do some research on government testing of TMAD. Add some coyote urine and FSE to the fly bait.


https://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=7c4c8f87-f132-4ea0-9be3-98285bb30d8a
Posted By: Yes sir

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/01/22 04:26 PM

Laz
That's interesting. Maybe it would help them southern boys out with there ant problems too
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/01/22 05:08 PM

Golf Ball. I am using it the way = Wiley Carroll intended. In stead of bamboo i use pvc pipe for its convenience and reusable
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/01/22 05:10 PM

Thanks Laz. I have an account their. Get emails daily from them. Will give it a try
Posted By: trappergbus

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/05/22 02:23 PM

Have you tried mixing lures with Pethro? It's consistency is like Vaseline and seems to hold odors well thru rainy weather. It's available thru MTP
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/05/22 04:12 PM

It is called Petro.
Posted By: clintp1971

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 02:45 AM

Would a water soluble lure holder work ? You know like over the counter medication gel caps. Enough rain would disintegrate the gel cap and release the scent. Maybe use traditional lures on set day and if rain is in the forecast, add a sealed gel cap containing lure as it gets wet. Different idea, but if it worked you would cut down on the need to relure after a beaver rain. Surely someone has thought of this .
Maybe check out Dixie pearls, by down south trappers I believe
Posted By: Kentuckyguy

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 03:42 AM

I thought TMAD was trimethylammonium decanoic acid

I see the fly bait contains Trimethylamine and eggs. I do know the fly bait stinks.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by clintp1971
Would a water soluble lure holder work ? You know like over the counter medication gel caps. Enough rain would disintegrate the gel cap and release the scent. Maybe use traditional lures on set day and if rain is in the forecast, add a sealed gel cap containing lure as it gets wet. Different idea, but if it worked you would cut down on the need to relure after a beaver rain. Surely someone has thought of this .
Maybe check out Dixie pearls, by down south trappers I believe
I am no longer concerned with my lure in the rain. After what Bob Jameson said. I got to thinking. That I am worried for no reason. One of the coyotes I caught on a drag at a set took 12 days. Then on day 21 I picked up all my lure sticks. Smelled it after 21 days. SO if i can smell it. The coyote can. My worrying Was a waste of time
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 02:14 PM

This is what I use now. 6 inch Wooden quit tip. Much better than the bamboo sticks I use to use

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Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 02:17 PM

I used these for a long time. Chopsticks. Bamboo. Cut them. Fray the end with a hammer. And then use pencil sharpener to make point

Attached picture 92830AFD-B348-4B90-A685-685F3143DAE3.jpeg
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 02:56 PM

I am no longer concerned with my lure in the rain. After what Bob Jameson said. I got to thinking. That I am worried for no reason. One of the coyotes I caught on a drag at a set took 12 days. Then on day 21 I picked up all my lure sticks. Smelled it after 21 days. SO if i can smell it. The coyote can. My worrying Was a waste of time,


Yes Pilgrim you have come far....
Posted By: Lazarus

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 03:34 PM

"Was it worth the trouble . . . ?
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lazarus
"Was it worth the trouble . . . ?

YES. Even after 35 years of trapping coyote. I let double and worry creep into my mind. NOTHING was wrong with. My lure. Just thought about all the rain. I was it carrying the scent far enough. Plus. With the 15 day for cas looking like this I got concern for no reason.
Posted By: Lazarus

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by steeltraps
Originally Posted by Lazarus
"Was it worth the trouble . . . ?

YES. Even after 35 years of trapping coyote. I let double and worry creep into my mind. NOTHING was wrong with. My lure. Just thought about all the rain. I was it carrying the scent far enough. Plus. With the 15 day for cas looking like this I got concern for no reason.


Bob Jameson quoted the line from Bear Claw Chris Lapp in "Jeremiah Johnson." I just quoted the next line in the same scene. No offense intended.
Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 03:49 PM

Check out AccuWeather Primes 15 day forecast. Day is right hand column. Left is night time Plus = caught 2 coyotes today. After 1.6 inch of rain since yesterday

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Posted By: steeltraps

Re: What lure ingredients? - 09/09/22 03:51 PM

No problem Laz. I get. Over concerned at times. And start thinking = Can I build a better mouse trap??? Sometimes I lay in bed and can sleep because of the rain and low coyote population is working me to death to keep catching coyotes like i am expected too
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