Baby powder vs borax

While attending the fta convention, I sat in on the fha fur handling demo. The feller that was doing it said that if you feel you have to put something on to help dry the pelt you should use baby powder instead of borax. Anyone do this or heard of it? He said borax dries the hide out to much and will never be right even after tanning.

I must have missed you.

I know Greg Is the real deal when It comes to fur put up. So he must know what will work and what won't.

I think I left when he did that or explained It. I still thing your better off using several wedges to open up the hide to get more air flow. Get out the ear cartilage and I don't see there being a big problem.

I was looking for ya beav, sorry I missed you.

You could tell he knew his stuff. Was interesting to see the way he sharpened his caribou knife.

On coyotes I do put borax under the armpits and the tail instead of pinning it out, (looks better and more natural to me), and any damp spots before turning fur out. I will have to change my ways.

Why change your ways If It's working for you.

I had the grand kids with Me It was stop In and drop off some hides to get tanned and then we left.

Yes it works for me, but how does one know if the grader down grades if they suspect borax has been used? Changing my ways meant switching over to baby powder .

Ok here's what I do.

I don't remove the cartilage. I don't use any borax or baby powder.

I place the coyote on the board skin out tack It In place. I place a wedge Into the mouth end and one In from the tail end. These wedges aren't some wimpy coon wedges either. The one In the mouth Is critical In my opinion.


Let It dry for about 1 day Or when It loses that tacky feeling. Then I turn It fur out and place It back on the board. I place both wedges back In place and let It dry till It has that crinkly sound when I handle It. Then It comes off the board and the I replace both wedges. By putting those wedges In from the mouth your opening up that face area so you can get some air movement. This Is very Important once the hide Is off the board. You will probably have to pin the tail end one once It's off the board or It will fall out.

I think that If you leave that hid eon the board for a week or longer your just not getting any air movement through that face area. Most of the time you may get away with but why take the chance.
And with my system you can free up your boards a lot quicker so you don't need so many boards.

In my opinion borax and baby powder Is just a way of short cutting the way It should be done.

It works for me.

Thanks beav, very imformative. To break it down a little you said you didn't remove cartilage, but have to assume you trim off the big pieces of meat off the ears unless you do at skinning. This is another area that the fur houses say you should remove the cartilage.

My concern is the under the front legs, for me always damp + they want you to leave the front legs inside so would be hard to dry.

My stuff dryes much faster so have to keep an eye on it.

I tucked my legs inside on my pelts last year, and the grader told me not to tuck them in so I'm not gonna worry about tucking them this year, I'm just gonna leave them out.

Was that a fha or nafa grader Dfabs? Nafa recommends that the front legs be left in so as not to rip during drumming. Make sense to me. Not sure what fha recommends.

I always cut the front legs off just a little below the elbow so not much there when dry. When I turn fur out the front legs just stay inside.

RP you must have missed where Greg just cut the front legs off tight and used castration bands to close the holes. Looks like a neat way to do It. I just take the legs off short and Pin the opening shut with push pins or staples. Might have to try those bands.

Doing It that way should save you all kinds of headaches concerning the arm pits.

I seen that beav, you must have been there fri, I was there sat.

That was a good idea but before I buy that equipment I think I will just tie them off with string.

I never noticed and didn't ask, were the bands removed before turning? Did they get shipped with the bands still on?

At first I didn't think the hide would dry being all bunched up like that but I guess it does.

The bands and the band spreader are not that expensive. I remove the bands from the hides I use them on before shipping.

It was one of the senior graders at our trapping assoc. fur sale. I've never shipped to NAFA or FHA.

Thanks guys, appreciate the input.

Wolferman, thanks for the input. Although I understand the drying properties of salt, i don't think it is what I'm looking for. What I was after was how to dry anywhere that the skin is stuck together and hasn't dried before turning fur out which with the help of the above posts I think is solved.

Dry your pelts horizontal and you wont need borax or any other chemicals.

Nice

Shirley you can't be serious?

Why would I not be serious?If you leave the front legs on or do any skins for taxi,you have to initially dry them so there are no folds under the front legs.Only a few hours until you turn them.Then you can hang them.

Yes, that would be a good option. Never give it enough thought before I replied. Thanks

Ive sent alot of pelts to Moyle's to tan. All have been boraxed with zero issues when returned. Some have hung for a year before I've sent them. So my question is this, If borax impedes or causes problems with the tanning process what is it?? I don't use it as a crutch but to help speed the drying process.

I know what you mean trappergbus. It seems to be a he said she said deal with the borax. Like said above I just use it sparingly on coyotes.

Here is another question for anyone that would like to offer their opinion. I rub borax like crazy on bobcat bellies to whiten and brighten after they are dry, anyone doing this knows it makes a huge difference. So what could be used besides borax to do this?
I doubt if baby powder would as good as borax.

Powdered chalk is used in the industry as a whitener and cleaner for white fur.

Borax is a great fur cleaner and brightener IMO as can be seen in the following before and after coyote pelt pictures. Just be sure you shack and brush it out of the pelt so it does not annoy the graders. And, it's my understanding that it has nil effect on the pelt tanning process, at least when brushed and well shaken out of the pelt before processing.

Boco, that's good to know, do you mean the kind that is used on a chalkboard? Where do you get this chalk?

Bctomcat, I remember seeing those pics I think in the archives. Big difference!

Imo the graders still know if borax was used no matter how well you clean it up. but they don't know if it was used before or after the pelt was dry. Do you think this makes a difference?

NO

I put toilet paper tubes in front legs to hold them to dry. Really quick and simple.

Hey Boco, I used your suggestion to dry my coyotes horizontally, it worked great. You da fur man! Thanks

Wouldn't any residue from Borax be completely gone before the pelt hits the graders table due to the drumming process?

You would think so, but the way greg talked, (he is a fha guy) the graders could tell. How I have no idea. Good question. Maybe just trying to curb the use of borax.
I do know one point he was stressing was do not skip the flip. As in do not put a bunch of borax on a stretched hide fur out and then put a mink board in it to help dry. This seemed to be his pet peeve, he said if he seen this done he would throw straight in the garbage.

Edit, don't think he said he would throw in the trash but should be thrown in the trash.
I believe he is a receiving agent for fha and said if he seen coyotes like this would not except them.

In the fur trade I don't see any reason to even leave the front legs on any critter. Except when dealing with cats. Are you going to get down graded on commercial type coyotes and fox If the front legs are gone?
Now If you working with wall hangers maybe.

When dealing with the front legs I just place the end of the stretcher between the steps of a ladder. Now the legs are hanging straight down and will dry In the arm pit area. I have alway's done this with coyotes and fox. And when leaving on the front legs I split them up to the elbow and then pin them to some cardboard strips. And of coarse if your getting them tanned you can skip the flip.
I was told when Howell boys were In the processing business the walls In the drying room were set up with slots so all the streachers were placed In a somewhat a horizontal position.

I don't use any borax or baby powder on my skins. But I do use a spray on stain remover that does a exceptional job on removing blood stains. And works pretty good on those stained bellies.

I put mine on saw horses where no hide is in contact of them so they dry great. The front legs are only about 2" when dry, then when turned fur out the legs get pointed toward the middle. I was going to use the bands but this is easier and in my opinion looks just as good. You can barely see where the legs are.

I still use borax on the tail before I turn. I'm to lazy to pin the tail.
What do you with your tails, sorry if you have told me already.

Use a heavy piece of cardbord or cedar shake for pinning tails on split boards.

I use bocos trick for the tail.

I put one pin In the tail to keep It In place and never had any problems with them drying.

Sounds good, thanks guys

I ran into 1 of the Howell brothers today at our state convention. I was pleased to hear they are back in business in Mauston, Wi. Albeit on a much smaller scale. Only 1 of the brothers runs the shop there now, and he does so on a part time basis when he's not doing concrete work for his regualar day job.

Well Boco Is partly right.

The first drying stage when you have the flesh side out should be dried In the horizontal position. That leaves the legs hanging down and the pits will dry out before turning. After turning fur out I can't see where drying In the horizontal position would be of any value.

I hang mine downside up and give a good brushing to finish the drying so the fur has nice full fluffy look. I hate to let the fur get flattened, at least until it's out of my hands.

That's how I do it Beav,just horizontal to dry the leg pits before turning.
After turning I hang nose down to finish on the board,and after they are off the board I hang them in bundles in the cold room.

I knew that

X2

On your coyote and fox split stretchers I'd recommend running a router over the flat surfaces of the stretchers and then the outer beveled edge of them I'd cut down the center with your table saw to allow a bit more air flow while hanging the skins .

I'm still a fan of borax on the ears and around the front legs on coyotes and on the belly if they are starting to turn green for what ever reason. And keep a fan running to keep the air moving.