A new market for beaver?

I was reading on another post where The Beav said some furriers are wanting beaver cased as to not cut the bellyfur. This has been on my mind for a while now. Is it a possibility that we as trappers can establish a new market by..... Joining together and offering a sample of say a couple thousand belly plates at the auction. I think the 30 lb and under would be ideal for this.

It's something to think about. The first step would be to contact Fur harvesters and see If It would even be a possibility. Maybe a call to Groney. They could contact buyers to see If any one would be interested.
I would think the cased beaver would have to be flipped so the buyer could see the fur side. And that may be a problem and maybe not.
We would have to get something In writing before going this route.
The other thing to think about Is the fleshing aspect. The guy who did the cased beaver said It was easier that way then when the beaver was opened. But the guy that did It with the beaver split down the back said It was harder that way. I never did any that way so I can't answer that question.

But It's something to think about.

Guy said in one of his videos that there's no way to duplicate the belly fur of a muskrat, and that's why it's always marketable. A beaver belly fur seems like a even better option , mainly the smaller 30 lb and under. As far as case fleshing …..Several trappers in this region already case flesh

I did send GFW a message on this site asking that question about a month ago. But apparently they never opened the private post. Maybe someone with some connections to GFW could look into this

I'm not sure I'm the one but I will give It a shot next week.

Why not just dosal skin it down the back? That would be even easier than casing.

That's possibly how we would pattern them . that way they could still be nailed on boards. No need to establish new stretchers

That would not make fleshing easier and would not make boarding them less time consuming. Fleshing them cased should speed up that process and boarding them cased would certainly be faster than nailing them out and then removing the nails.

I cased a couple of small ones, around 20 lbs iirc, several years ago. Used different opening cuts and stretched them on solid coyote boards. I was not concerned about selling them on the fur market as I had them tanned. Just something different. Skinning was not bad and fleshing was certainly easier IMO. And bigger ones would definitely need bigger boards.

Not sure if I have any other pics. If I find any, I will add them.

They would have to be flipped for the fur market.
If I do any ADC beaver work this summer I'll see how It goes.

Why would they have to be Flipped? Aren’t beaver just a muskrat on steroids? You don’t flip muskrats. Just asking.

Excellent question Beav, why??

Muskrats are weighed by the grader for fur density by pressing on the neck skin with the thumbs.
Beaver are weighed for density by running the hand up through the underfur behind the neck.
Beaver leather is thick,They could not be weighed for fur density finish, cased leather out.

That is traditional thinking for beaver, in the box thinking so to speak.

This thread is more non traditional, out of the box thinking so to speak.

Non traditional uses such as belly plates would change the way the pelts are evaluated as well.

Coon used to be open skinned and stretched flat but that changed. Could beaver be next?

I got a feeling if a couple thousand of these were on the auction block with a open view of both fur and leather ,( boarded flat) somebody is going to want them. If not then they'll go into the hatter market at the cheap prices we're already getting anyway.

Well according to my friend he wants a large area of belly fur to work with. so having the beaver dorsal skinned he ends up with a belly area that he doesn't have to sew back together.
For his use I can see case skinning would work just fine. He bought them cased skinned and not put up. So he could view the fur side finish them have them tanned and then split them up the back. But If you wanted them plucked and sheared maybe these case skinned beaver would not be the way to go.
But I can see It being the way to go If there was a craft market that wanted them done this way.

I would think that case skinning a beaver would take a lot longer then using the open skinning system. And according to my buddy fleshing a dorsal skinned beaver was a lot more work.

Great, that's a starting point. Find out how many pelts he wants this year

You and I discussed this case skinning and case fleshing issue last year and I guess I'll say it ….cough ….you were right...cough .. lol.. Case skinning and fleshing does take a little longer, but many in this area were trained that way . The only difference for us will be the final cut to board. Are we cutting it up the belly or back.

He's got about 40 hides. I hope he Is successful In using them up so he will buy more.

I put up a dozen cased beaver this season. Half med/small, half blanket/ super blanket. I had hoped to put them in front of some craft buyers at our auction. The sale was canceled. These beaver are at the tanner now.
They were easy to skin and flesh cased. They took much less time boarding on stretchers versus tackin out and pulling nails from the beaver boards. The med/sml fit prefect on solid coon boards. The large beaver work great formed on an adjustable wolf stretcher. I put them up fur in, and will continue to do so until a buyer requests a larger order from me fur out.
For now I will have tanned ones to show as samples, and they will sell.
The larger cased beaver are tougher to package for shipping than reg beaver. Also the larger beaver cost more to ship than open beaver.

I think someone should look into using beaver for medical grade masks. The skin is waterproof so should stop the droplets. would have to be fur inside and shave down the leather for weight or just use the small ones. But this is a local product that can be used and lessen our dependence on China and plastic. it is also biodegradable and a plentiful resource. Should be able to sell every beaver you can trap for a decent price. get 5 or 6 masks from a small beaver maybe 20 from a super blanket. Muskrat, otter, nutria and wild mink should also work. Trappers saving the world !!

I think It would have to be fur out. Fur In would drive you crazy.

So its not a one size fits all. Case drying for a craft market that sounds like its already in motion.... and then … a probably harder to implement market for international furiers

So You will be limiting yourself on what market the beaver will go to,and not realize the true value of the pelt because it cant be evaluated(graded) fully.
Be like selling balled up frozen green fur-you get lowballed cause the buyer doesnt know exactly what he is buying.

Cased beaver for the craft market has been a thing for quite a few years. Has been picking up in popularity the past 3 or 4, as more trappers get into that market due to low raw fur prices.

The problem with the international market is quantity. They are not interested in just any group of a thousand skins. They want graded lots. Size, color, quality, damage, etc. do you how many many beaver you would have to have to put up a graded lot of say 250 medium size, dark color, I-II pelts.

If a trapper sends 50 beaver pelts to an auction, look how many grades they end up in. Even if all 50 pelts were medium size, they would end up in multiple lots. The chances of all 50 of those beaver are in the same lot is astronomical. Even if a dealer sent in 50 pelts that he/she graded identical, I doubt the beaver grader at FH would see it that way. Just the way it is.

I’m not saying the international market isn’t the way to go. I’m saying the logistics of getting it to happen might be an issue.

Boco: I look at it this way. This market has dictated how I can market beaver pelts. Hatter, Shearable, Tanned. Since I will not knowingly sell a beaver pelt at a lose, this market has constrained me further. Hatters-lose, Shearable- $20-$25 lose, Tanned-profit or I sit on them.
What I am investigateing is develope a small niche market to profit (sell higher than the going price of Shearable pelts)from raw beaver pelts and Mediums in. I'm guessing the use for many cased beaver will not require Hvy pelts. In that case the Hvys can go open to FHA or other traditional venue.
A buyer can judge a cased pelt by
Looking at the leather, with a long enough arm,they can reach in and feel fur density. The only thing they could not judge would be clips and slight rubs.
I think the buyer interested in cased beaver would be aware of this and accept it or move on. Trust in the Trapper may have a bearing in this.
I would not offer cased beaver without me present and with ability to reject an offer.
I don't think FHA is the venue for cased beaver pelts.
ALL of this seasons beaver are at the tannery. I don't want to have to do that this coming season.

Yes this is the big hurdle...Its gonna take someone like GFW to find out if that market is available to us

cattails: One thing Im trying to say is this:
I recommend trappers take the bull by the horns and develope your own niche markets. Although most of us rely on FHA, GFW, Trapper auctions, etc to some extent, to sell to. By limiting yourself to
What someone else dictates to you what your fur is worth you accept the rank of slave.
Im not trying to save the international fur market.
Im just trying to continue to prosper, no matter what.

I get it, that's what I think about the hatter market. What a shame.

Loup Loup,I market most of my beaver tanned,and have been for several years.
I was just saying in the international raw fur market buyers want a standard so they know what they are getting.
Years ago(before 1950) there was no standard oval for beaver-they came into the auction house round,egg shaped diamond shaped square etc.Because there was no standard trappers lost money.The auction houses seen this right away.
That is when notice was taken of Del Millers pelts that were in the now standard oval.The buyers liked that shape as the fur density was good all over including the back of the neck and they could be accurately sized and evaluated.
That is when the international fur market adopted the oval standard for beaver pelts.
There is absolutely no problem with trappers marketing their beaver on their own any way they want,and to meet the demand of their buyer.
After all that is how the standard oval was adopted in the first place-it was what the international trade wanted,and trappers got better money for their fur.
There are standard forming sizes for every pelt for the same reasons.

I see. Thanks cattails, and Boco.

I just got off the phone With Guy Groenwald. He said he's been wanting to do this dorsal thing for years. So He Is on board.
He said he would need about 200 beaver done this way. Then he would pick out the best 50 or so and have them dressed and then try and shop them around to see If there was any interest.
WE aren't going to get any better money at this time for doing It but It just might open up some doors down the road. This Isn't going to happen over night but It may be a start to something better.

I haven't worked out any way to get him 200 beaver. Maybe one guy might want to take this on or maybe several guys from one area could do It. It won't work If 100 guys all over the country send In 2 hides a piece. I think this has to be a localized thing.
If anyone has any Ideas just holler. Or If some one wants to call guy He Is willing to talk to us.
So the ball Is know In our court.

Wouldn't mind doing small beaver cased. The big boys would be a bit more or a problem getting started because of the massive amount of fat at the base of the tail but if I could use my Skinner on em, I'm game.

Dorsal skinning is great for those holy beaver if you spot the bites before you skin or if you have a spring season, just skin em all that way.

I've always thought nailing beaver took up more time than it should and there was a better way to put up beaver. I think this is a wicked idea and would love to see this turn into a market.

I never asked about case skinning them. I asked about dorsal skinning. But If enough of you are interested In going the cased method then I will contact Guy and get a commitment from him to buy them that way. Then If that works we will have to get a few guys to make the commitment to do 200 beaver hat way.

Count me in ...I'm excited about this. I plan on doing any blankets oval, and some where about 40 lbs and down ( what is being called dorsal) . My case skinning leaves both leg holes intact, Scape cased on the beam, then cut it dorsal.

I would think ideal for GFW for the trial run would be dorsal skin, fold fur out and freeze. GFW can flesh them in less than a minute once they thaw and that should make them pretty consistent for the trial run. They already have a way to stretch and dry them as well. Dorsal skin and sell green should not be much different than belly skin and sell green.

I don't think we will have to collect them to one spot. If GFW is our point guy here. We will just need mark them as dorsal, when he buys at the truck. For now he's going to pay us hatter prices so we are getting the same money. I'm going to call him also and discuss some details. Thanks Beav

Yes, I agree . For a trial run, I won't board and dry.

I don't know about groney doing the fleshing. His machine Is set up for the normal way of fleshing. But we would have to ask him.
I still think we have to get this done by a few trappers that are localized. If you don't groney could end up with 500 beaver instead of just 200. We have to take baby steps at first.
But we have time to get this all figured.

Ok , I just talked to Guy, I was wrong on something. He wants the ( big beaver) also, and doesn't care if he gets 200 or 2000 it doesn't matter. Whatever he doesn't use will go into the hatter market still.

That makes sense cattails....

And the fleshing machine at GFW does not care if they are split up the belly or the back. They just need to be open. Same for their stretching and drying process.

Since grony doesn't care how many he buys dorsal skinned how many of you are In?

.

ttt

No takers?

I'm a novice, this will be my second season trapping beaver so I'm no use to you, but following with interest. What application is the belly fur used for?

I am certainly willing as I already sell most of my beaver to GFW green.frozen anyway. Flipping the opening cut is no big deal. I do not catch a lot of beaver but know lots of folks here that do. Gary usually comes to our convention in Sept. and I am sure we can find some willing participants.

The convention thing Is a good point. I know Guy comes to ours so he can push this a bit . I know a few guys that will get on board.

Lets get this done.

If Guy’s pickup crew are willing to buy dorsal cuts and we can get a better price over the hatter market, this could be a winner. I don’t catch many beaver but i’d be willing to sell this way.

At this stage In the game we are going to get the same hatter market price with the dorsal cut. It's down the road were hoping to get better money.

Well,more than one way to skin a hatter beaver, I guess.
I don't intend to be negative, but, Im guessing $6 a pound hatter price next season. This deal is nothing but pie in the sky for trappers. Seems to me if a businessman wanted to push a new item, he would pay a premium for producers to produce quality prototypes. Just looks like more slave wages to me, with one buyer having a "specialty" item in his inventory.
That wet blanket being throwed,I wish any participates Good Fortune.

Well It seems to me that maybe FHA would get behind this at some point. Anyone have any contacts with any FHA people?

Guy told me he's hoping there's even a hatter market at all next year. The fur market is in the tank right now. He's doing this only to see if there is an available market. We're all in this together and it makes me cringe to see beaver pelts going into the hatter market. At some point we as trappers will be throwing our fur in the ditch if something doesn't change

Just out of curiosity, does anyone see a possible blending of possum fur with wool? I know it’s a different animal than the Australian possum, but Australians are mixing the possum fur with wool and the market is developing with some enthusiasm.

I’m not sure how well American possum fur would work. The Australian/New Zealand possum is so much different texture wise.

Quite a few years ago there was a company that was weaving with beaver fur. The product was awesome looking. Not sure if they are still doing that or not.

Cut them up the side,then you will have all the back fur in one piece and all the belly fur in one piece.

That would work.

I’m not a beaver trapper but case skinned seems to me like best of both worlds. The end user can have the back or the belly or both. Hope this turns into something good for the fur market. Trappers thinking outside the box and people like Groenwald taking a chance on these things are what we need to keep this market alive and thriving.

Groenwald is not taking any "chances" on any thing. If they make above hatter maker price on them they keep it, you get paid hatter market price. No way to lose for them, as usual!

Well we have to start someplace.

That's true Beav, and I am not knocking the attempt. I just don't see it as Greenwald taking a "chance", more to it they are just going to try out a business opportunity that may be profitable for them, not nessarily for the producers.

Trends that take off have to start as an idea in someones head. The idea is here. Will it lead to a new use for beaver fur and ultimately better value for beaver pelts? That remains to be seen. I am glad that we have someone with the connections that GFW has that is willing explore the possibilities. I also understand that they are in business to make money and I do not have a problem with that either.

I'm the guy Beave is referring to. For hat's and mittens cased is the way to go, at least for me it is. I bought 25 N Minnesota spring beaver that for the most part were black with the balance huge browns. Making up stretchers wasn't to big of a deal. Air stapler works great and is very fast. Once I get them back from tanning I will simply cut down both sides and have 2 perfect plates, back and belly. As for fleshing, I got them rough skinned and scraping was a breeze, cold but not frozen. A super sharp knife is a must for tail and head areas. Next year I'll probably get 50 more.

One more thing I forgot to mention, make sure you use belly boards front and back.

I use the belly fur on beaver for liners. All this work to create a belly fur liner market most likly not result in much better prices for beaver pelts than the hatter market. Multiply the muskrat price by 3 or 4. Whats that $12 to $20 dollar beaver?

Well If you can get $4.00 more then the hatter market It's a win In my estimation.The way I see It at this point we have nothing to lose.

It is a money losing idea for the trapper to promote fur for liners. Groeny is already doing this for coon. How is this price of coon these days?

Well If you can promote beaver belly fur as liners It may be a better price then using that fur for the hatter market. The bottom line Is If we don't try we won't know.
Beaver belly fur outshines coon fur by a mile.

Have at it! $20 beaver averages are a money loser here just like $12 averages.

Maybe I'm looking at this wrong. But If I have to skin a beaver and sell It to the hatter market for $7.00 green skinned wouldn't I be better off doing the same thing for a belly fur market and get $10.00 for the same amount of work by just skinning It up the back.

Yes, you are. You don't have to trap beaver. Look in th help wanted ads. There are plenty of jobs that are way less work and enjoyable that pay better than $10 dollar beaver. Glad, I could get your mind right.

Ya I'm having a bad day. Bought a new hose bib and had It Installed for $100.000. Turned It on today and the sob Is leaking around the valve handle. Don't know If I can knock off the valve handle to see If I can tighten something up Internally. I'm just a bit ticked off.

I do some beaver removal in the spring and end up with a few yearlings. Yes I wonder if it is worth all the trouble skinning, freezing and putting them up in the fall for $1.50 (half the price of a rat). But I enjoy doing it so I don't mind I guess,

Sell Them green skinned that' s how groney buys for the hatter market.

I guess if it paid more than their hatter price I would try some next year. For the same price all its doing is ensuring that GFW is the only outlet for it.

I don't see It that way we are just In the testing stage. Groney Is spending his money to get these dorsal cut beaver dressed. And he is spending his time and money to shop them around. If It gets us more money I don't care who Is the outlet as long as I make more money. If this should take off others will get involved.

Can you make money trapping $20 beaver? What middlemen can make on a $20 beaver with a mark up, is different than what we do. For example the middlemen buy your beaver for $10 and can sell 50,000 for $15.

The middleman pays you $30 for beaver and can sell 10,000 for $35.

Which is more lucrative for the middleman? Which is more lucrative for the trapper?

In my world ,as soon as you build a nich in the market here comes all the competitors jumping into make money. This thing is already in motion. whether or not a market will develop, or any money will be made will take several years to find out

Hopefully it doesn't take several years to find out.

I watched NAFA try to create a decent market for beaver for 25 years. They failed. They even would tell you why.

I don't ever remember them pushing a belly fur market.

Ironic is it not that the underarm areas are cut off the pelt before tanning as not to use so much chemicals. In the end they just look like sheep skins with those 4 corners cut out. This is the plucked beaver and dyed.

Good read and good luck.