Home

Snare shapes : Teardrop vs Round

Posted By: LT GREY

Snare shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:24 AM

This is one subject that may cause some controversy among snaremen, as to which one is best, but may help some younger or inexperienced trappers who are just learning how to snare.

Loaded (Round) or teardrop.

Which do you use/prefer and why?

Two identical 14" snares. One is loaded,(Round) the other teardrop. Still 14" but the shape is changed !

Posted By: Ark Trapper

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:29 AM

I use loaded snare made by Rally Hess
Posted By: otterman2003

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:32 AM

Myself use both for different applications.
My most common and simple is the tear drop snare but I use a heavier lock and its about as quick.

Plus easier to make. I like the Berkshire lock for the tear drop.
Posted By: tbn

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:39 AM

All mine are loaded as that is what I prefer.Never used tear drops.Do you have problems with the wind closing the loop shut on tear drop shaped snares?
Posted By: traphound

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:44 AM

I prefer teardrops for fox and round loaded snares for coon. Just what seems to work for me. Coon are usually body snared and most of the time the coon gets his front leg thru before it shuts.
Posted By: MINNSNAREMAN

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:47 AM

I have been building my own snares for many years and caught just about every furbearer from mink on up that is legal in Minn. My snares are all teardrop shaped,for this reason only; I can not load snares worth a darn. I use 5/64 7x7 with amberg locks and also mini's
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:57 AM

It is a very simple procedure!
Takes all but 10 seconds, if that!
Posted By: ccary

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 12:58 AM

i use both. i use the teardrop on beaver, i like to think it helps lessen tail catches.
Posted By: Blackdog

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:18 AM

ADC makes some loaded snares and them babys are WICKED FAST!
Posted By: willie3384

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:19 AM

Are there any recomendation's on keeping a snare stable in the water for beaver, I'm in Missouri so they have to be fully submerged.I have been using a 10inch unloaded snare. Also I can't get the hang of the dive pole yet. Any and all advice is helpful, and thanks
Posted By: MJM

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:22 AM

I feel that people are to hung up on round. I load snares but don't care if they still have a little tear drop to them. I think the side of a snare going up and down blend in better in the grass. Not many trees or much brush here.
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:41 AM

Good point made by a trapper in a grassy area.
Something to consider....
Posted By: aprophet

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:51 AM

Originally Posted By: MJM
I feel that people are to hung up on round. I load snares but don't care if they still have a little tear drop to them. I think the side of a snare going up and down blend in better in the grass. Not many trees or much brush here.


Me and a coon was having this discussion this morning He seemed to think it did,nt matter laugh grass trails in marshes for me I have found 1 X 19 is easier to load then 7 X 7 and get right the fist time smile
Posted By: biggun6

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:51 AM

Could someone show a close up of a loaded snare?
Posted By: Slim Pedersen

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 01:52 AM

I am going to stick my neck on chopping block again. But I have never understood why anyone would want a "loaded" snare unless they have a couple serious misconceptions about snare usage.---First an animal has to start pulling on the snare to make it close. Second, once it starts to close, round or tear drop has nothing to do with speed of closing, compared to where snare is used and how it is stabalized to begin with. Yes Yes, I know playing with them in your hands the rounded seems to close faster, but only because you are holding the top of the snare level, which is not the best way to set it in the field--Wind, rain, light snow will close a snare that sets level in the field, but if a snare is set to have to climb over the top to start to close, because the snare is fastened to point up and not flat or level, so light wind, and light moisture will not close the snare, both will close at equal speed with the same style lock.
Posted By: TimmyTrapsFur

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:00 AM

ahem.... what slim said
Posted By: SGT. C

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:08 AM

Round ,loaded and lock at 11 o'clock position.Works for me.
Posted By: Gage Drift

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:09 AM

That's funny. My hero Slim stuck his neck out about snares. smile

I like what's been said about both having their places, but after building some loaded snares out of 1x19, I think I'll rarely use tear-drop shaped for cats.
Posted By: k. miller

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:12 AM

i will bring a different perspective... i like round loops b/c i think it gives a better appearance of a "hole"

other than fence crossing for yotes... i always block my snares way down... when you get down and look at them from the critters perspective, the round loops tend to blend better and don't stick out as much..

i think we're arguing preference here......

chastise me.... LOL
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:15 AM

Just about the same thing Gregerson told me, Slim.

You Montana boys went to the same school!
wink
Posted By: don Wolf

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:21 AM

I always set my snares to climb just a very small amt. before dropping. Like slim said, wind etc. will cause a level snare to fall. I like loaded snares but I have also caught loads of critters in tear drop drops.
Posted By: RainKing

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:29 AM

Slim, It may be that snareman in the (west) or Great plains where I live have to deal with 25+ wind and blowing snow or sometimes a lot more as you well know. I personaly like a loaded snare however it can't be at 12 o'clock or it will be on the ground waiting on you and that's never good.
Posted By: ky_yote

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 03:36 AM

I use 1/16th with a slim lock, attached to a 3/32nd extension, and, yes, I load the heck out of the 1/16th loop. I use 1x19 cable, and the loading of the loop seems to work better for me. As for the closing speed of the snare, I guess I`ll have to sit and wait for something to go thru one of each to be sure, but the I`ve used both, and my catch ratio went way up w/ the loaded snares.
Posted By: gwc

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 05:34 AM

i dont have the experience that most you other snare guys have but i love snaring.for me tear drop works best on fox and i catch a few coon in them too,and i like a round loop on beaver.i dont make my own,have always bought snare shop snares.really like micro locks.
Posted By: coon scat

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:12 PM

round
Posted By: regulargrey

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 02:58 PM

I have used tear drop snares and seems like most of my catchs were back around the waist and shoulders then started loading them and my catch were around the neck and and shoulders none around the waist using the same size loop and seems with a loaded snare the loop is wider to cover more trail but that is my 2 cents
Posted By: Don Adams

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 03:16 PM

I load all my snares. I use cam lock and the adc lock and to me the locks close quicker. You can overload a snare - you just have to play with it a little to find out how much pressure to use when sliding the cable over a round rod or I use vise grips and clamp it to the quad runner rack and then run the cable over round portion of the vise grips. I like loading the snare if I am targeting neck catches on coon. It closes really fast.
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 05:55 PM

adc lock?
Posted By: red webb

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 06:18 PM

Round for cats and tear for yotes and don't ask why.
Posted By: william

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 06:29 PM

loaded 1/16 1x19 it will catch and hold anything i can trap
Posted By: Ole Hawkeye

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 07:07 PM

I'm going to be using snares for beaver and hadn't even considered anything but loaded snares, but now you've got me thinking.

Would a tear drop be more effective for beaver? Same size and height? What would the advantages be?
Posted By: Bushmaster

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 08:19 PM

I've always used teardrops....and the only thing I've ever snared is coyotes...but I can see the advantage of a teardrop vs. round in that coyotes have a much larger chest area (than say, a coon) to start the snare closing.
Posted By: Ole Hawkeye

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 08:26 PM

Okay, Does it really make a lot of difference? If the shape really effects the efficiency in a large way I will change over. I want to have all either loaded snares or tear drops and not have to mess with carrying both. I don't want to bother with chosing one over the other on the line.
Posted By: N.W.MISSOURI

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 08:31 PM

ok shoot me now but what are you guys referring to when you say loaded snare
Posted By: Furvor

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 08:40 PM

I prefer teardrop for coyote as it seems to give a more open appearance, and I expect this critter to be trotting.

For cats I like a somewhat rounded loop - to make it a bit more difficult for the kitty to slip through without touching the bottom of the snare.

My theory is that a cat that is intent on going from point A to point B (whether that is a few feet or cross country) is a candidate for a snare. If the cat is in creap-pause hunting mode, the snare is unlikely to be effective.
Posted By: Don Adams

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 10:16 PM

LT Grey - I think that is what the lock was called it's a big washer bent back over near the top of the lock. I think Snare shop sold them. I got them through Chris B and he made some up for me last year with the mini deer stop. I also bought some of the stakes he and Cliffy made up to anchor and support the snare too. I really like those stakes!
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 10:50 PM

Why redd webb?, why?, why? laugh
Posted By: regulargrey

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/22/09 11:35 PM

the loaded snare helps in va where the top of the loop can be only 12 inches off the ground a tear drop would be pretty low to the ground for a yote
Posted By: tbn

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 12:42 AM

I get a tighter closing loop by loading versus not doing so.If you take a loaded snare and pull the bottom of the loop,it snaps down to alot smaller loop when closed.This is especially true with the 1x19 stiifer cable. Unless Slim has a secret he is not telling us.
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 01:57 AM

Got'cha. Haven't used those!
Posted By: mr. finch

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 02:51 AM

as long as it closes fast i dont care what shape it is
Posted By: aprophet

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 12:07 PM

Originally Posted By: regulargrey
the loaded snare helps in va where the top of the loop can be only 12 inches off the ground a tear drop would be pretty low to the ground for a yote


we have to find crawlunders to use them for that I don,nt see a differance yet ???
Posted By: regulargrey

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 12:20 PM

aprophet the rounder loop lets you raise the bottom of the loop higher in my opinion in trails and I have caught several coyotes doing that and using a duct stick to make them go thru it and not a lot of fences here in the mountains and old strip mines
Posted By: aprophet

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 02:48 PM

I don,t use as many fences as trees fell down across right aways, log roads , deer trails with a duck stick, fish trimmings thrown on either side of these places a couple of times in the off season make it a good place for a snare opening day. Round seems to work better if you are trying to neck snare coon loop placement becomes more critical with the round loop though.
Posted By: EduMan

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/23/09 03:07 PM

I like running loaded (rounded) snares for coons.

For yotes we run tear drop and for beaver (loaded/round on slides and tear drop in the water).

There are a few more variables to consider IMO but that is another can of worms. Preferences / variables can be endless depending on target species, location, and personality.

Cory
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/24/09 05:55 PM

Good point EduMan.
Care to enlighten us further? smile
Posted By: Rally

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/24/09 10:47 PM

Loaded all the way. I can't think of anything a loaded snare won't do better than a nonloaded (teardrop) snare. If all i snared was wolves, hogs or coyotes I wouldn't feel the need to load snares. The reason being, all those animals walk straight legged, are large in physical size, and are like bulldozers in their walking habits and the way they negotiate brush and fences. Large animals like these are adept at "plowing" through small obstacles, like small sticks, brush, switch grass, honey suckle vines, corn stalks,ferns,regrowth popple,balsam limbs, pine bows, etc. Mother nature doesn't often leave large voids on the landscape, especially during summer months, and large animals have to "make" the majority of their travel routes in nature. In general the smaller the animals, the more "travel friendly", the general landscape is, for land dwelling furbearers. The exception is during deep snow, when many of the common furbearers hibernate, and others spend a great deal of time in trees. Animals use our clearings and roadways for easy travel, but most of their travel routes are made by them from constant use, to and from a den or food source, hunting area or resting area. Often the trails are used by many different animals, especially along waterways, to access a easy or safe place to cross or as a place for larger predators to hunt,do to that waterway being a draw to smaller prey species. Trails are usually made in areas that are determined in great part by natural pinch points, like a saddle in rock structure, around large deadfallen trees,boulders, briar patches, around large open areas, etc.
The reason I got into the trail topic is that trappers and snaremen need to know why a trail is where it is and why it is there. These animals are as familiar with their travel routes as we are our route to work or our backyards. The exception to this would be an animal dispersing through a new area, which I would argue is more alert than a local animal, as it is looking for an area to establish, and would be more apt to confont a local inhabitant, who is looking to defend it's existing territory.
While in their home range or using a trail that this animal has traveled often, these animals have encountered many obstacles in the making of these trails, after any wind storm, snowfall, harvest of domestic crops,or just the falling of the leaves. Their trails are changing constantly with the weather and change of seasons. The small animals in particular, are used to encountering small limbs, vines,grasses,and leaves in their trails and clean them out, walk over them, or brush by them daily. Major obstacles like crop harvest, or deadfallen trees will most often reroute or change their travel routes to some extent. The animals are used to pushing through, walking around, or squeazing into tight spots on a regular basis. They know what size physical "hole" it takes to get their body through. As snaremen we have to know what size that "hole" has to be, and at what height that "hole" has to be to not deter that animal into taking a different route, whether by going over it, around it, or trying to step through it. As snaremen we want the snare we put in the trail to not cause the animal to slow down,look unatural, too small, too high, or so low it wants to try to hop or step through the loop. The "hole" should should be correct in size, just higher than the animals stomach,which will often cause it to try to step through the loop first, or slighly lower than it's chin, which if too high could cause the animal to duck it's head and go under the loop. If I do my part the animal shouldn't have to change it's stride nor change it's head position as it enters the loop. With some of the restrictions on loop size as in Va. mentioned above, an obstacle added above the snare can cause the animal to lower it's head, but could also cause the animal to go around or over the snare by restricting their stride, or bringing undo attention to the snare. You can also put "obstacles under the snare or "chin lifts", but it has been my experience that doing this causes more animals to attempt to step through the loop, resulting in body snared animals, than would go under the loop.
As the animal enters the snare loop, it's chest comes in contact with the bottom of the snare loop and begins to "elongate the loop. This is where a loaded snare and a nonloaded(teardrop) snare part company in my opinion.
With a teardrop/ nonloaded snare, the animal has to physically pull the loop closed, while the cable is dragging against it's chest or chin, until it is tight enough to hold the animal and not be able to be thrown off it's head,the animal stops when it feels the cable drag on it's neck and puts a foot through the loop in an attemt to step through the loop, or the lock is so slow closing or drags enough the animal stops and walks backwards or shakes it off it's head. A slow, noisy, or hard closing loop can do are are part of all the above listed. Also a loop that comes in contact with the ground stops the closure of the loop and the animal can physically walk through the loop as the cable binds with the surrounding obstacles, like twigs, grasses,reeds, or just frozen ground.
With a properly loaded/ round loop, as the animal enters the loop it should only have to be elongated about .5-3"(depending on size of loop)when the loop should jump shut or travel until it hits the animals body/fur. When this happens the loop should be mostly closed on the animals neck, behind the ears, before the animal has even pulled the snare off the support wire. As the animal continues down the trail it shouldn't even know the snare is anything more than another leaf twig or stem brushing it's body, until it gets to the point where it is pulling the snare off the support wire or comes to the end of the snare, resulting in a hard locking of the snare and or compression of the spring if so equiped.
If you work in an area of constant high winds, it is just a matter of tilting your loaded snare up, to say a 1;30 or 2;00 oclock postion while set to eliminate blown down snares. The more angle you hang the lock at, the farther the animal has to elongate the loop to activate the snare, but also the snare speed increases as the animal pulling on that loaded loop just causes more "spring" being added to the loop.
I have found that the more "slinky" the intended animal is in nature or movement, like a mink or bobcat, the faster the snare needs to be and the smaller the cable normally is in my snare. Also consider the dexterity of a coons feet,the size of it's head, and the actual heighth of a walking coon when loading and setting coon snares. I believe most coon snaremen are putting their coon snares too close to the ground, which encourages a coon to step through the loop as easy as push through the loop, resulting in body caught coon. I just measured the length of the leg on a 32# coon I caught today. It is 8" long and not even stretched to full length. How many people are setting coon snares 5" off the ground and not using loaded loops??

Slim,
A loaded snare should be much faster than a teardrop loop, even using a Camloc:)
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/27/09 07:00 PM

Rally,
Thanks for adding your 2 cents worth on the subject.
There are a lot of trappers who use your products successfully!
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/27/09 07:21 PM

I prefer round loaded on smaller animals due to their size.Found for cats I like loaded cable rounded/egg shaped. For coyotes teardrop and 1/8th cable where I dont have good entanglement set ups. You get the teardrop sagging from the cable weight typically anyways.
Posted By: Rally

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/27/09 07:35 PM

Bob,
You using 7x7 1/8th or 7x19 1/8th? The 7x19 price just went crazy.
Posted By: Gage Drift

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/27/09 08:13 PM

1x19 makes a rounder loop than 7x7 because it's stiffer. And 7x7 is stiffer than 7x19.
Posted By: Bob Jameson

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 11/27/09 08:15 PM

7x19 Rally in 1/8th
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/05/09 01:54 AM

Who do you buy your cable from, Bob?
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/27/09 10:25 PM

sent to the top for jrt! smile
Posted By: brianroberts

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/27/09 11:23 PM

Cat snares I load, I make them out of 3/64" 1x19 cable, load them hard for a 7" loop, Coyote snares in fences, I load them for a 8 1/2" loop out of 1/16 1 x19 cable.
For Coyotes in pastures or open trails I use the teardrop loop, 1x19 1/16" with a 13" top to bottom loop,also use a camloc and kill spring on these, snare length is 12' on these, all the others are 7'.
.....B.....
Posted By: BlueRidgeTrapper

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/28/09 03:48 AM

Bump
Posted By: MJM

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/28/09 02:25 PM

When a snare is set, round or tear drop has nothing to do with how the animal is caught in my eyes. If they are goung through the loop and getting hip caught. Go to a smaller loop. I also feel having it hooked up solid to the support is more important then the shape. The animal pulls the snare shut. It doesn't matter what shape it is if they don't touch it on the way through.
Posted By: aprophet

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/28/09 03:21 PM

Originally Posted By: MJM
When a snare is set, round or tear drop has nothing to do with how the animal is caught in my eyes. If they are goung through the loop and getting hip caught. Go to a smaller loop. I also feel having it hooked up solid to the support is more important then the shape. The animal pulls the snare shut. It doesn't matter what shape it is if they don't touch it on the way through.


Here in Va. we have a height restriction on land snares, a round snare can go a little higher then a tear drop .
Posted By: Crucible6

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/28/09 03:30 PM

best snare (Round or Tear drop) is the one YOU are comfortable with..
Posted By: jrt

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/30/09 11:44 PM

thanks for all the replies
Posted By: Medlaketrap

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 12:42 AM

Ok, I know, Im an idiot rookie,,,lol, what does the term Loaded Snare exactly mean? Any pictures comparing loaded vs. non loaded?
Roman
Posted By: Drakej

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 01:10 AM

I don't use loaded snares because of over abundance of deer. Though I am not setting in "deer" trails(illegal here) deer eventually go just about everywhere not displacing snares as fast as I can place them. So I put a jump branch(often my drag) over every snare in case. I also secure my snares a little more than most to keep in place(I use small hooks from 32g floral wire). I miss an animal or two walk thru but my snares stay 90% in place rather than 90% dropped. And they are placed in such heavy cover that I don't see evidence of animal refusing to pull snare closed. You can make a pretty round snare loop w/ 1x19 cable without loading.
Posted By: jagenlaxer

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 09:47 PM

Hey could one of you more experience guys please explain loading snares a little bit more? I understand that loading a snare changes its shape from teardrop to round, but i don't understand exactly how this happens. Its my understanding that you basically work the work the snare back and forth across a nail or something similar but never having done it i don't understand what i would be trying to accomplish. Since i obviously don't have any idea how or what i would be doing if one of you oh wise snareman could impart a little bit of wisdom it would be greatly appreciated.
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 09:57 PM

No, not "back and forth" as that will cause it to curl like a ram's horn.
You are only doing the back 8" or so and always in the same direction.
One or two times will do..and that would depend on the preasure one puts on it.
You hold the snare at 12 o'clock and 5 o'clock and turn it to the left like you're turning a steering wheel.
Do it slow until you get the hang of it, or you will ruin your snare.

Once you get the hang of it, you can do it without even looking.

I use a 1/2" t-bar stake in a vice to do mine.
Posted By: jagenlaxer

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 10:03 PM

Thanks Lt! sure glad i didn't ruin my snares before i had a chance to hang them
Posted By: Newt

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 10:23 PM

Loaded snares for me.
They close faster.
Better neck catches.
Most novice snareman set their snares too low.
Posted By: LT GREY

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 10:46 PM

I should have said that, at least for me, it is easier to load 1x19 cable than 7x7 aircraft cable, as it is stiffer to begin with...@ least IMO.
Posted By: BobTail

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 10:56 PM

Originally Posted By: MJM
I also feel having it hooked up solid to the support is more important then the shape. The animal pulls the snare shut. It doesn't matter what shape it is if they don't touch it on the way through.


I agree 100% with MJM. I believe a solid support is crucial to a fast loop closure. I have hip caught em and curse myself every time. I know better smaller loop is better.
Posted By: Manny

Re: Snare Shapes : Teardrop vs Round - 12/31/09 10:57 PM

All i have to said ....very good topic!!
© 2019 Trapperman Forums