Trapping on Mormon Church property

One of my coworkers is Mormon, an honest practicing mormon. I asked him today if the church owns property, besides the land the churches are on. He said yes. They have farms, ranches, etc. I'm assuming that some of the places they own is, or could be good trapping. I'm also assuming that the church doesn't just own land in Utah.
So my question is, do any of you trap on Mormon church land? Do you know anyone who traps on church land? Looking for anyone who might have experience/info on this subject.
TIA

I know a guy that was a rep for a large feed company. He never said anything about how much land the Mormon church owned but he did say they were one of the largest cattle owners in the US. I would assume that owning a lot of livestock required owning a lot of land as well and not just in

This was several years ago

Largest cow/calf operation in the country by a long ways the last time I looked. They bought a ranch east of me a few years ago. If I wanted to trap it I would go ask the guy that manages it. Boss has met him and some guys I know have day worked for him. There's a family of Mormons we neighbor to that own their ground and manage a ton of other range land owned by individuals in the Mormon Church. Nice approach able people. Reasonably sure they would give me permission if I'd ask especially if I offered to help some during shipping.

If you're Mormon and paying you're 10% that would go a long ways toward getting in.

I know of some Mormons who have a hunting lease (for guiding) on a 20,000 acre spread owned by the Mormon church in Utah. I seriously doubt that anyone other than a mormon would be able to strike that deal.
Trapping?? I don't know about a non-mormon gaining access, particularly if a mormon church member wanted to trap the same piece of ground. They are pretty protective of their own kind.

I'd agree with that. A Mormon would have first right. Around here their just isn't very many to compete with.

The way I understand it a good mormon deeds all his land to the church. Think taxes. Think control. The guy doing the deeding lives there and treats it like his own but it belongs to the church. All money goes to the church. The church gives it back as charity.

All you can get is a yes or no for asking...

I know a guy whis a Mormon. They're non profit but charge high dolllar for deer and elk hunts and theyd never let him hunt..even though Hes a Brother

They raise a crapload of cattle too. I always. Wondered if they distribute the meat to the church members since theyre mom profit?

A nonprofit? They make billions, it's more like organized crime than a nonprofit.

The government isn't able to legally steal their share, who cares, not like they need it.

They also have forced tithing of 10% of income. It's quite a racket. If you don't follow the rules of the "church," they can just take away everything from you. And of course they can change the rules any time they want.

Brigham Young was brilliant and self-serving in the extreme, and that has carried down through the ages. Other than the fact that he had 27 wives and 62 children. Not sure how brilliant that would be.

It's really not that much about taxes. It's much bigger than that.

They are a very big land owner in wy, they bought several really big ranches, I think the PK, and buffalo creek red Angus?

Bernie is spot on. They own a million acres in continental America. To think they’re nothing but big business with tax breaks is hilarious.
Honestly, think of how much the tax breaks because of religion costs you guys. It costs us too, but if you want to whine about tax stuff, start there.

the largest most profitable non profit in the country is Lutheran 22.6 Billon and is larger than the next 3 combined

and it does not need to be religious to be non profit

Mayo clinic is #2

the red cross is not religious

task force for global health

feeding America

the boys and girls club

habitat for humanity

So no one has actually trapped on Mormon land? Seems with all the agri biz they're involved in they would welcome some critter control. Maybe there are some Mormon trappers we need to reach out to and get to join our club!

I haven't trapped but have hunted on a couple ranches that they own, I just knocked on the office door and asked. The bigger ranch had some rules and took my name the smaller place was just like any other ranch ask the manager and talk about where and when.

Yeah I know of a place or two in Georgia owned by them

If all else fails, contact Mitt Romney. He's a Mormon as his father was. I'm sure he'd help you.

At one time, and maybe even now, the Mormon Church was the largest landowner in Florida. They owned a huge cattle operation everyone called, oddly enough, the Mormon Ranch. I believe the "real" name is the Deseret Ranch. It is near 300,000 acres.

I have hunted but not trapped. I know the government trapper used to trap on the one in the area I was in.

They bought a huge ranch here in the sandhills too. Run cattle on it and then outfit it with deer hunts. I had a guy tell me he worked with haying up there. Since he had another guy worked up there doing hay, they got a shoe in, to trap one year that I know of.

Also own some massive ranches in north Central okla. Same deal cow/calf and lease for hunting.

They also have forced tithing of 10% of income. It's quite a racket. If you don't follow the rules of the "church," they can just take away everything from you. And of course they can change the rules any time they want.

Brigham Young was brilliant and self-serving in the extreme, and that has carried down through the ages. Other than the fact that he had 27 wives and 62 children. Not sure how brilliant that would be. [/quote]... bernie you watch to much CNN nothing could be father from the truth! i have trapped on several church owned land and its just like any other private ground. ask the manager and he can tell you yes or no same as anywhere else

I personally trapped on a 7000 acre ranch that the Church held, did so for five years straight !

It was surrounded by other ranches as well, they all had bird ranches to boot for shooting in the winter, pheasants, chuckers, quail, ducks and geese, was out next to the Great Salt Lake

The 7000 acre ranch I was given a tip they were looking for a person who could take over predator control because they were losing so many birds each season. The tipster knew the foreman who lived on the ranch, this ranch was all locked up as well, but people were still getting in and trying to hunt the land for geese and ducks as well as the game birds. The foreman wanted some one who could be out there a lot to help control the access.

I drove out one weekend and met him working his farm area for the feed for his cattle, talked to him right as his tractor, seemed pleasant enough and we made a deal that I would not charge him for any animals as long as he let me take them in the fall and winter, he told me I would be competing with the bird hunters on the plots, told him I could just rotate around the setups, just let me know who to talk with.

Met the head guy of this ranch's bird hunting and he was pretty upset that I was now going to take all the predators, and it would spoil his bird hunting, but the ranch foreman told him to not get in my way and he also wanted the predators out cause they were harassing his cattle and calves. So I just told him to keep his hunting rotated and tell his customers to not shoot any of the predators they seen as they would probably be in traps. He felt he was getting ripped off cause he was taking an occasional dog or coon while hunting and was telling the foreman how well he maintained the area, kept using the excuse I would catch the customers dogs. Asked him if they were hunting the ditches or the canals he said no, just the open ponds and open fields. Told him then to stay away from the fence's and I would stay away from the fields but would be working around the carcass dumps as well. It worked pretty well for most of his customers though there still were a few who thought they could do what they wanted and would hunt the ditches, caught a few dogs and had a few traps stolen, but after telling the ranch foreman about it I did not have any more problems with it.

The first year on this ranch I took off 36 coyotes I did not think a lot for the amount of ground but the foreman was happy, about forty reds, and I don't even know how many coons and skunks. I was on that ranch day and night trapping and calling with night vision it was a fantastic gig for me. At the end of my season which was end of January, I showed my tally to the foreman, who was astounded that just I would be able to take so many animals. He fired the bird guy that year. When the new bird guy came in he was more of a professional with the birds and welcomed me with open arms, never had any more problems with covering the ground after he took over. I end up moving on to other ranch's next to this one for the next four years.

I did bring in one of my friends to help at this time, we covered all of the ground and adjoining ranch's with our ATV's, was out every day and nights when the weather was good night calling.

We had the ranch's clutching over the second year and they were very happy, we had taken out all of the resident animals and only transients were taken who happened to move through by the 3 year. They had more birds than they could take now.

We snared, trapped and called, there were plenty of diked ponds for birds and canal's even took a few beaver out of the area.

Yea I'm LDS but a Jack Mormon, not active any more my friend was not a LDS person just your average ole dude wanting some time to learn how to trap, and he followed orders and was trustworthy.

I asked the owner when he said he was moving on and the land was being traded to the Audubon Society for a learning and research area next to the Great Salt Lake the church had decided to trade for a better piece of ground for real estate purposes, why he made such a deal with me and not some professional ADC guy. He told me that he trusted his friends reference of me and was tired of the ADC people already on the ground not covering it like he wanted to, they charged him a fee for each animal and then never produced any records or proof of doing anything. Just gave him a number list, LOL

Yes he was a active member, but some of the other ranches were not, they just wanted someone they could trust not messing with the animals and being professional in the work. You may see it as being a member had something to do with it, but I look at it as more being professional and ethical in my work out there.

The bird hunting is now gone due to the Audubon now and its mostly just a walking trail, the predators are back as well as the sneaky people trying to take them.

It was a great time for the five years I was allowed free range there, you never asked for specific knowledge in your question, hope I covered at least one, You can always ask for permission you can only be told yes or no, not doing so just makes you frustrated, usually at that time a knock on a door would not get you shot, now days maybe so !

Sorry for the long story, I got carried away !

Edit, I try to not get involved with the religious questions or statements here they have no bearing on the original question !

If you control the land and food you control the people

I was a member of the Mormon church and can state with full confidence through past experience there is no forced 10% tithing.

There is no plate passed around at Mormon services, and I was never pressured about it.

Seems like the practice of taking up offering in the eyes of the congregation like most other churches has more of a forcing effect through peer pressure, shaming gossip, etc.

Never trapped LDS property...The old folks had a saying "Avoid entanglements" ...I keep my faith and anything involving making money, or the appearance of making money seperate.

I’m an active member of the church. Never been forced to pay my 10% or sign over my property. I’m not sure where that information came from, but it’s not true. The real name of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Emphasis is on Jesus Christ, just like other Christian faiths. When I was working in commercial landscaping we maintained multiple church building properties. Like other businesses and residential, they would put out an RFQ and then award the contract to whoever they chose. I never felt like I got preferential treatment because of my membership. Plenty of quotes for additional services got shot down. The bills always got paid in full and on time.

Link to more info about the Desert Ranch in Florida- https://www.deseretranches.com/Home/Legacy. There are other internal links.

If I had to pick a Christian religion to join based on how happy, friendly and helpful it's members were, I would choose Mormonism without hesitation.

The Mormons store food for themselves and their neighbors and their preparedness centers help anyone who asks.

Just ask if you want permission to trap Mormon property. The worst they are likely to do is say no.

Keith

Thanks Keith. As an member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I can say I've never been forced to pay tithing still I pay it happily and willingly. The church is apparently quite wealthy but each year billions are spent to feed and cloth the poor, help in disaster relief, build chapels and temples for a growing membership and education to mention a few. I can only wish our government was half as careful and frugal with the taxes we pay each year as our church leaders are with the donations made to the Lord for his children. Wow, got a little preachy there.

Yep... I have been on that ranch a number of times and is nice place.

Garry-

I have to apologize if I started a religious debate. I have no issues with Mormons. Some of my best friends are Mormon. Its organized religion i have a beef with. People are people, good or bad. Every one is an individual soul. Any way.

Thanks to all. To be clear, I will mostly, I hope, be trapping in Alaska for the majority of the season. However, I am enamored of bobcat trapping on the high desert. This is a retirement idea and the plan is to leave Alaska each early Feb. and head south. Try my hand at a little vacation cat trapping, incidentals welcome, in different states. Western states preferably. Pred. calling can be worked in as well. So wherever I go, I should say we, and wherever I trap, it will be a short term, 2-3 weeks, gig.
My mormon coworker is one of those happy friendly people Keith mentioned. I'm regularly quizzing him about church stuff, history, etc. The more I learn the more interesting it is.

I wonder what Jim Bridger thought of the Mormons after Brigham Young's men forced him out of his trading post and stole all his possessions.

I guess I'm a little off topic. Apologies.

I'm also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. I can also say that I have never been forced to pay tithing or do anything that I didn't want to do. I have never had property taken from me. i don't have two wives and I don't have horns. Yes, my undies are funny.
It's crazy how much misinformation is spouted by uneducated people that have a grudge against a church they know nothing about. They just regurgitate lies and misinformation they hear.

It's really incredible how much good is done by the church. They feed literally millions of people. Not just members of the church either. They send aid to areas and people that are hit with disasters. This includes food, water, shelter, building materials, medicines, generators and much more. Where does this stuff come from? Tithing. So bad mouth it all you want but it does a lot of good.

There is some "Church" property near me. It is free to use for hunting and trapping.

dont feel persecuted. i think any religion is just a cult.

I would imagine that like most properties, you can just ask.

As for the Mormonism as a religion, the LDS Church's language may sound similar to orthodox Christian doctrine at times, but the beliefs are quite distinctive. Smith wrote extensively that the Christian religion fell into complete apostasy after the death of the original 12 Apostles and that not until his visions and "Restoration" in the 1830's was the faith begun again in earnest.

Mormonism has recrafted man's depravity, salvation, heaven, he_ _ , the cross, Jesus, and the Trinity - as the canonical Scriptures teach - and the the LDS teachings do not agree with the doctrine taught by the holy, catholic, apostolic church for over two millennia. Thus to be accurate, Mormonism is known as an aberrant faith the same as Jehovah's Witnesses.

Doesn't mean the followers are not nice people. I know some really nice Mormons. I know some really nice JW's. I know some really, really nice atheists. I know some weird satanists.
God made all sorts, didn't He.

Blessings,
Mark

... bernie you watch to much CNN nothing could be father from the truth! i have trapped on several church owned land and its just like any other private ground. ask the manager and he can tell you yes or no same as anywhere else
[/quote]

LOL I have never watched CNN in my life! But I have studied the history of the Mormons quite a bit. Which parts of what I said are not true?

Bernie, I'm curious about your source of study of Mormonism.

Can you please clarify "they can just take away everything from you"?

Present and a past members on this thread have already related there is no forced 10% tithing.

There are different brands of Morman just like different brands of Baptist. When the government told them that they had to give up polygamy to become a state, a lot of them refused. The old original Mormans are still around. They all believe in disappearing gold tablets but then it divides.

Like has been said before on this thread, there are many sects and divisions. I am going by the mormonism set up by Joseph and Hiram Smith and the teachings/doings of Brigham Young after the Smiths were killed. It has changed and evolved into many things. There are some that still hold to the old ways, but if you would be more comfortable, I'll say they could rather than they can. It's really complicated and very few of today's mormons even have a clue about the history of the church, the migration to the west, the beliefs and actions of Brigham Young and the slaughter of hundreds of innocent people that took place under direction of the church. (Including 120 at one time - do some research on the "Mormon Massacre") I has a sister in law who is a mormon and she was shocked when I told her that Brigham Young married three girls in one wedding ceremony, the youngest was 16 years old. She still doesn't believe it and has no interest in even considering it. That's been the common response when talking with Mormons, they really have no idea about the roots of their religion.

If you want to learn more about the actual history of the Mormons, one good book is "The year of Decision, 1846" it was written by a historian in 1943, so it does not hold to today's political correctness and beware it will offend your sensibilities. When reading the book I became convinced that the author Bernard DeVoto was a mormon himself. He sure treats the heinous actions of early mormons with kit gloves.

I have no animosity towards Mormons, I just think the beliefs and teachings are far from the Truth. And I reject the notion that mormonism is just another denomination as was posted on another thread.

Danny...Yes, I'm aware if the splinter groups, but usually when the average person says Mormon they are referring to "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" unless they make a distinction and single out a splinter group by its own name.

I've heard lots of talk about dissapearing gold plates, do any of the original manuscripts of the books of the Bible exist today?

Thanks for your insights Bernie, I don't have any animosity towards Mormons either, just curious about where you were coming from.

I love to debate with Mormon friends. I can poke all kinds of holes in Mormon theology. But what I won't do is try to poke holes in my friends.
Even though I believe much of the official Mormon theology is heretical, I am convinced that many individual Mormons are true believers in the same Jesus Christ that I believe in.
Just like anyone else, they are "saved" in spite of their religion. God looks at an individual's heart; not at the membership list of a denomination.

I know a guy who looked Into trapping on some Mormon land. They wanted 2 Million dollars In liability Insurance which would have cost him $2,000 . So he said he needed $3,000 to trap the coyotes on that ranch and they turned him down.

The splinter groups are the groups that split off. Not the other way round.

I dont believe the biblical tales any more than the gold tablet tales for what its worth ky coyote hunter

Gotcha Danny, thanks for your reply.

...not any differant from any other big land owner company i lease ground from power company and its several thousand for the 1 million dollar policy the insurance costs more than the lease ..i am doing a beaver complaint job for the county and needed to trap church owned land made a phone call and was given permiision without any strings attached. .

There is one plain and simple truth: Mormons are the best Trappers.

I'll go along with that...I will say one thing elkantlers, LDS are absolutely the kindest, most honest, and clean living people I've ever encountered...Total respect for them.

Back in the early 80's I and my Bride moved to Idaho so I could work in a taxidermy shop there. The owner of the shop told us all about those Mormons and warned us not to get involved with them at all. Well, some of the most self sufficient people I ever met were LDS. They were, as a group, one of the most Christian acting people I have ever been around. Most LDS folks were "Preppers" long before that term became popular. I never met any LDS that had multiple wives, but if that floats their boat I really couldn't care less. If my neighbor guy is gunna have 10-12 kids with a half dozen baby mammas, I hope he's LDS because those folks take care of their own very well.