I have a job for a VERY large company. They have a few filtration ponds and the muskrats are eating there cattails. (cattails are use in the filter process) They don't want me wading around trapping because of the liner under the pond. So they decided they want them sniped.
They are supplying me with a night vision scope for my .17. All I have to do is pick one out. I will be shooting about 100 yards max. If anyone uses one I would greatly appreciate any in put on a purchase.

Yep I'm ready to shoot. It has been 3 months of safety forms, interviews, phone conversations and so on.
Some questions to me were rather funny and ridiculous, like whats your protocol for poison ivy and oak? I told them I don't touch it! lol
I understand they have to cover all there bases. I may even have to put a back up beeper on my truck. They don't leave anything out. Very detailed with everything. Even where I will be sitting and shooting from.

Must be dealing with the lawyer's, not the maintenance folk's.

I'm dealing with the environmental company

Cool job, I'd almost just take the 1,000 dollar scope as payment lol

I here ya. He just emailed me and they picked one out. [url=mehttp://www.opticsplanet.com/opmod-pvs-14-night-vision-monocular-with-night-vision-head-gear.html]mehttp://www.opticsplanet.com/opmod-pvs-14-night-vision-monocular-with-night-vision-head-gear.html[/url]

And to think that I wondered why Antczak left Wisconsin for Tennessee! If I mentioned this before, forgive me, but a classmate of my son went college in Nashville. Well, her mother is a customer of mine and she told me that all three of her kids went to college in Nashville and none of them ever came home, except for vacation. ( I probably should add that if the rest of the family can sing like the daughter I heard, it's no wonder they stayed in Nashville! )

Its a great place Paul. right now in the smokys its only 85 in the shade! I bet its warmer than that there?
The scope the chose is the OPMOD PVS-14 $2895.00 NIIIIICE!

Wow that's nice.
question: won't that .17 make a lot of noise, kind of defeats stealth at night?
Would not floating in a boat using .22 subsonic get you more shots?

Kurt Temple

The ponds are about an acre. I think me in a boat would spook the rats. This way I can take one out let it rest and wait for another

It might but then they would not have bought the scope;-)

From my experiance with NV. I think you could save your scope from having problems with muzzel flash by making a flash supressor out of PVC. Make it a long one, fill it full of holes and put a spongey pipe wrap on it. A bunch of slits in the wrap, and some duct tape will finish it off. Funny thing is that it makes the report of the gun much less noisy. This is a flash supressor, not a sound supressor. ( It just happens to act as one)

Mike do you have a picture of that flash suppressor? If it looks like a sound suppressor and kind of acts as one, is it legal?

mine has built in protection from flash,,,,,,,,,,,(auto sensor)

I make them as I need them, about once a year. They are pretty cheep to make and I toss them when I am done.

Sounds like fun , I can't see it working . A muskrat rides very low in the water . Seeing threw the cattails . Maybe get a x-ray vision scope . One thing for sure your bullet is going to skip like crazy . There's no need to wade in the water when trapping ponds .

The pond is 80% open something killed off the majority of the cat tail last winter and the rats are taking care of the rest. They are very picky about there liner and they prefer I stay out of the pond. I'm not worried about getting a shot

Sounds like the perfect rat breeding area . I'm sure you will get a few . Them things breed like crazy if the stars ar in line . Ive seen rats depleat 700 acares of cattails . Theres was almost 14.000 rats taken out and that only brought back the cattails kinda .
If you could get up high on them and shoot down there kill area would be more exposed . If there was floating logs for them to climb up on that would exposes the kill spot . Muskrats are kinda stupid till there's attemp on there life's . They get wise fast . They also learn to watch out for each other by slapping there tails kinda like beaver do so when shoot one and there's a splash it's going to send off a warning accross the pond . Is there a fence stopping these rats from migration . It's in a muskrats nature to not over pop . They migrate like crazy . There's two ways to farm muskrat . One is to fence them in so they can't leave . The other is to feed them like crazy so the ones born there stay there and new ones move in . I'm surprised there not eating up the liner yet . There's ways to trap rats with out getting wet . You could hold a float set Inplace with a cane pole . They must be denning in the pond banks and have runs coming and going . Colony traps really shine in that . Are they paying you per rat

Pesky, you can tell this to your muskrat customers ( And sound really intelligent for a change, because it's the truth ) Muskrats have a wanderlust twice a year, spring and fall. This is when you get calls to get muskrats out of window wells that are nowhere near water. This is nature's ( God's ) way of preventing inbreeding. Muskrats travel until they smell water and then they call it home. We call it the fall and spring mix. It keeps muskrats from marrying their cousins.

There paying me per hr. ($75) The out flow into the creek is wide open they can come and go. The banks are littered with dens. Yes I would use colony's if we end up trapping. If we do then its more safety training.
I told him he needs to worry about the snapper population also. Due to there hibernating. I wonder if they are ripping the liner to burro in the pond bottom.

This is what I use for NV, a D760 6x gen 3 on a R25 in 243 a little big for rats but works great on coyotes and hogs


I did a job for a guy removing beavers from a pond, he didn't want me to trap, thought his dogs would get in them So I set up a tripod deer stand 15' tall and took them with my 22 mag and NV, worked well the owner was happy and paid well

Nait 3 gen

Vinke, what does a set up like that run?

What amount of insurance did they require you to have?

At 75.00 per hour what numbers removed are they expecting from you?

Are you working off a stand to limit ricochet and improve sightings?


Thanks
Kurt Temple

I do a tremendous amount of night shooting, mainly deer depredation protecting soybeans and feral hogs out of supplimentary deer feeders.

I would seriously consider either the ATN MARS unit in a WPT (white phosphorous) model. A more economical choice would be the Pulsar N550 Digital scope.

The reason for these two scopes are that they are black & white instead green like other typical night vision. This makes tremendouse difference for target aquisition.

The best (ultimate) option would be thermal scope. You will locate twice as many targets and be much more efficient with thermal.

Hope this helps.

Thermal white hot
thermal black hot these are taken with a Raytheon W1000-9 thermal weapon sight
I just ordered a M845 from TNVC.com its 2nd gen SHP as close to gen 3 as you can get without paying the price, 2.5x with a dot retical, after doing much research I found that they say it is better than the Pulsar or ATN hands down and only $1800. hope to have it this well and will test it out

for scanning i use a FLIR PS32 thermal on a head mount I made from a GoPro camera mount works great for hands free and nothing gets by you I can spot coyotes at 3-400 yards cattle at 1000 or more, rabbits at 100 yards

Phil,
With all due respect how can an upper end generation 2 unit be better than the equivulant of a generation 4 unit? Talking about the ATN MARS unit in the WPT model.

The Pulsar NR550 digital scope is only a generation 2 unit (barely).

Look at the resolution rating (lp's or lumens) of your units when doing comparisons.

I too use a hand held FLIR unit for locating targets.

And with all due respect back Your ATN Gen4 is not true Mill Spec Gen4 The Pulsar is Digital not Mill Spec generation anything. I copied the gen cart off of TNVC.com web site in Technology it also go's deeper than I care to read

I don't see where I compaired the M845 to the ATN gen4 I was thinking ATN gen2-3 but I did look after you brought it up the price between the two is about 1.1/2 times more or $3,000 with out 1.5 time the scope, and looking at Gen3 D760 PINNACLE to the ATN gen4 the spec look the same resolution 64-72 but the cost of the ATN in 6x is again Higher for a none True Mill Spec housing.

Image Intensification Technology


Classification

The level of performance relates to Technology Generation. The higher the Gen#, the better the performance. Performance levels are largely based on the amount of available light necessary to produce a clear image.

Generation 0 – The original night vision system created by the United States Army was first used in combat during the Battle of Okinawa in 1945 during World War II and later in the Korean War. It was first suited for individual use in the form of the M3 Carbine; an M2 Carbine fitted with a mount designed to accept an infrared sight, the T-120. Before then, Generation 0 systems were mounted on tanks. Gen0 systems rely on Active Infrared, meaning that a projection unit called an IR Iluminator is attached to the device. The unit projections a beam of near-infrared light in the same way a flashlight projections visible light. The near-infrared light is invisible to the naked eye and reflects off objects, bouncing back to the lens of the night vision device. Gen0 systems use an Anode in conjunction with a Cathode to accelerate the electrons. While revolutionary in its day, this approach of electron acceleration distorts the image and greatly decreases the life of the tube. This technology was quickly duplicated by hostile nations and allowed enemy combatants to easily see the projected infrared beam like a becon. Generation 0 night vision is considered obsolete for modern tactical application.

Generation 1 – The introduction of Passive Infrared marked the advent of Gen1 night vision devices. These are the “Starlight Scopes” of the 1960’s used during the Vietnam War. The most widely-issued Starlight Scopes were the AN/PVS-1 and AN/PVS-2. Generation 1 night vision devices use ambient light provided by the moon and stars to augment the normal amounts of reflected infrared in the environment and are built by connecting three image intensifier tubes in a series. The major innovation is that, unlike Gen0, Generation 1 units do not require a source of projected infrared light. Their main limitation is that they do not work well on cloudy or moonless nights. Gen1 systems use an Anode in conjunction with a Cathode, so like the previous Gen0, Gen1 units suffer from image distoration and short tube life. Many of the inexpensive night vision units offered on the market (including the Russian systems which are often mislabeled as higher generation) use Generation 1 technology. Crude by today’s standards, Generation 1 units can be considered “toys” and are not recomended for tactical application.

Generation 2 – Developed in the 1970’s, Gen2 night vision systems mark a major improvement in image intesifier technology. Gen 2 units offer improved resolution and performance over the earlier Generation 1 and are considered to be much more reliable. Usability is greatly increased in that Gen2 systems can be made small enough for head-mounting; the first of which was the AN/PVS-5 (still in use today). The increase in sensitivity of Generation 2 night vision units is due to the addition of the Microchannel Plate to the image-intensifier tube. The MCP increases the number of electrons rather than simply accelerating the original ones, offering a significantly-less distorted and brighter image than the previous gen, while providing a 2,000 hour tube life. Generation 2 units are widely used in tactical applications today, with Gen2+ units offering images comperable with the later Gen3.

Generation 3 – Generation 3 is the most current generation of night vision, developed in the 1980’s, and is widely issued and used by US warfighters and elite law enforcement units. The most widely recognized Gen3 units are the PVS-7 Night Vision Goggles and the PVS-14 Night Vision Monocular, though Gen3 tubes are present in many other units. There are no substantial changes in the underlying technology from Gen2, but Gen3 systems have even better resolution and sensitivity. This is because the Photocathode is made using Gallium Arsenide, which is extremely efficient in converting photons into electrons and enables detection of objects at greater distance under much darker conditions. The Microchannel Plate is also coated with an Ion Barrier to dramatically increase the life of the tube to 10,000 hours as demonstrated by actual testing and not extrapolation. Generation 3 night vision systems are considered to be the best option for today’s modern conflicts.

Generation 4 – A strong debate rages in certain circles regarding the existance of Generation 4 night vision systems. The short answer is: yes, they do exist. However, the explanation as to why it is not in service is a bit more complicated. Development of Gen4 technology began in response to a request from the US Army in 1998 for a tube that had no ion barrier or protective coating on the Microchannel Plate. The new systems would be dubbed “Gen4” and were based on preliminary tests revealing that a filmless tube would increase performance by 20%. The problem is the cost with which this “upgrade” came. Testing revealed immediate degredation of the tube because there was, now, no protection of the Photocathode from the harmful ions generated during normal tube operations. These Gen4 tubes were, also, not meeting the 10,000 hour tube life requirement of standard Gen3 devices.
ITT and Litton, the two foremost manufacturers of PVS-14’s, began development of their Gen4 systems to meet the Army’s new Omni V Procurement Contract. During their development process, ITT found that the answer was not to remove the protective film, but to thin it. This new microfilm (10,000 times thinner than a human hair) provides the protection of the tube needed to meet the 10,000 hour tube life requirement while offering Gen4 performance. This new tube has become the system by which all other night vision units are judged. But, since it still contains a protective film, it cannot, honestly, be classified as Generation 4 (even though it provides better all-around performance). So, Generation 4 technology does exist, but it is not practical for field use.

Generation 3 Pinnacle – PINNACLE© is a proprietary thin film technology, only available from ITT Technologies that represents an enhancement to Generation 3 image intensifier technology. To understand PINNACLE© it is important to understand film technology in Gen3 tubes and why it is needed. Light energy, or “photons” strikes the photocathode (the first surface in a Gen3 tube) causing electrons to be emitted out the other side, towards the Microchannel Plate (MCP). When they strike, they knock even more electrons out of other atoms, causing them to be positively charged (positive ions). The electrons pass through the MCP, continually multiplying and get converted back into photons for your eye to see as they pass through the phosphor screen. But, the positive ions created at the MCP travel in the opposite direction of the electrons and head back to the photocathode, striking it with significant force which can lead to damage. Suffice to say, Gen3 tubes are more sensitive to this damage than Gen2 and require protective film barrier of Aluminum Oxide to get the life needed out of the tube. The Aluminum Oxide film is placed over the MCP to absorb the positive electrons before they can travel back to the photocathode to damage it. However, this film only allows about 50% of the electrons through, reducing the sensitivity, and represents the standard Gen3 tube. The government requested Gen4, the goal of which, was to remove the film to allow 100% transfer. However, this severely cut the tube life and was deemed unacceptable. So, ITT produced a tube with a thinner film that would allow more transfer of electrons than the standard Gen3 tube. Since it also allows more transfer of the damaging positive ions, ITT reduces the electrostatic fields around the MCP/ Photocathode. So, in laymen’s terms, much more light is let through. This, however, causes another problem.
On its own, a thin-filmed tube lets in too much light, so excessive light such as street lights and head lights are a big problem. So, as part of the Gen3 Omni VII package, PINNACLE© tubes contain an advanced autogated power supply, improved MCP hole size, a more sensitive photocathode, and other improvements which eliminate the temporary blindness caused by exposure to light too bright for the night vision device and drastically reduce the halo effect around distant light sources. The user can stay on mission and in the fight because his/her vision is not bloomed out. Initially, PINNACLE© tubes were only put into MILSPEC units. Night Quest and Night Enforcer units did not get PINNACLE© tubes. Eventually, ITT stopped making the dual battery configuration PVS-14 and consolidated their commercial and law enforcement lines into the Night Enforcer line. At this time, the Night Enforcer used a standard ITT Gen3 Autogated tube, while the MILSPEC AN/PVS-14 got PINNACLE© tubes. The Night Enforcers built during this period can be identified by their label which has the model number “ITTE-NEPVS-14-11.” These Night Enforcers had the same body housing and features of the AN/PVS-14, minus the PINNACLE© tube. It wasn’t long before ITT consolidated production yet again and made the decision to only produce Gen3 PINNACLE© Autogated tubes and put them in all their PVS-14′s. This really only affected the Night Enforcer line and represents the Night Enforcer model available today. The latest and greatest Night Enforcer PVS-14 has a label that reads: “ITTE-NEPVS-14-17.” This is how to identify a PINNACLE© Night Enforcer. Of course, all current production AN/PVS-14′s have had PINNACLE© tubes since they were released. The difference in item numbers is critical because there were a lot of tactical gear retailers that offered PVS-14′s along with other gear. Not quite knowing the difference, they purchased ITTE-NEPVS-14-11′s with non-PINNACLE© tubes. These became less desirable when PINNACLE© was made available to the masses in the form of the ITTE-NEPVS-14-17. Now, we see a lot of tactical gear sellers trying to off-load their older Night Enforcers at lower prices with customers who don’t understand the differences buying them.

Hope this helps

Rem22-250 here is the hands free set up I made for my PS32 from a head mount for a goPro camera, picked evey thing up at best buy for under $75 I think? had to buy a 1/4x20 set screw at the hardware store, You can drive with it if you go slow, and in the summer it nicer than a helmetl, I scan with it them go to the gun and do not have to remove it, the pic as with my day scope just for the Photo ,

ATN makes alot of variations of scopes. In the MARS units you have CGT, WPT and HPT (I think HPT, don't own one of these?). There is a tremendous difference between the models in resolution.

For me the black and white colored night vision works best versus the standard green tinted night vision, especialy with doing the deer work in soybean fields.

I dont' mind the green tint, with the amber cross hair as it seems to be easier on the eye than the red is after awhile behind the scope, on my thermal I like the black hot as the cross hairs are white and I don't lose them on a white hot target.
My FLIR has a insta alert that is a white/red hot

it's all good stuff and really changs the game at night

about 1200 used cody,,,,,,,,,, best value out there if you can find it (they lost their dod contract)