Is there a trap out there that you can set directly on an asphalt shingled roof for instance and expect no raccoon damage. I have been researching this for months now and this is what i have found so far.

From the archives: Paul W. "I believe" gets away with a 1" mesh directly on flat asphalt shingles with no issues, but I have not seen the same results. I typically set a rubber mat down first and hope that the coon doesnt slide the cage of the mat. This has happened a few times and damage was done.

I heard Dirk Shearer mention at the NTA that hardware cloth is suffiecient for roof protection,so i tried that and it does work with a few pros/cons. The hardware cloth is lightweight and prevents damage, but is a pain to store in the truck, sometimes hard to get the trap not rock back and forth and can give you a nice cut if you arent careful.

I am in the market to make a large trap purchase and spoke for an hour with Jim Comstock about his traps. If i went with the 12 ga HD 1/2"*1" wire, would that be able to prevent damage without a protective layer of some sort???

Is there a trap that has a bottom and lower side area in 1/2"*1/2"???

Any experiences out there with this issue or an archive post i could reference?

Tomahawh makes some with 1/2 x 1 wire that should be what you want. I have not had nerve enough to try it yet. Guess, I should put a layer of shingles on the ground and set a cage with a coon it on top and leave over night. To see what happens. I don't know of any with 1/2 x 1/2 wire. Would be very costly.

If im trappin on a roof for coon which I dont do often I use the poly traps held in place with wire and screws no damage that way for me so far.

Mr. Barnes, I certainly hope I didn't say that a 1 inch mesh on a roof would prevent damage ( Unless there was a large piece of plywood under it ) If I did, I was hallucinating. I have had no really bad experiences with 1/2 inch x 1 inch mesh, although I would agree that 1/2 x 1/2 is ideal.

Our experience is that the 108SS professional model Tomahawk trap is the "go to" trap for our guys when in comes to setting for raccoons on roofs. I will be watching this post for any other suggestions.

To all, FYI: Any hardware store/cheapo depot that does screen replacements will carry whats call "Pet Proof Screen", and if it will keep a Beagle in that wants that rabbit, I believe it should do for coon. I used it on the doors of my Beagle Boxes, and kept them in, even when 1/2" AND 1/4" hardware cloth wouldn't. A piece small enough to place under the cage with a little for overlap shouldn't cost much, and maybe you could get a deal on scraps.

Paul. The post I was referring to was one where someone was hanging coon kits in a boot cover in the back of the trap to catch the mother.the trap appeared to be constructed of 1*1" wire. Ill try to find the post to verify. I like Bethells idea of trying it overnight as an expert. Next coon I get I will give that a try. Thanks for the ideas so far.

2'x4' 1/4" ply wired to the bottom of the cage (drill holes to thread wire) with the cage centered is my trick.

EDIT: Also good for skunks

Comstock Cage trap on a shingled roof with coon made out of 1/2" x 1" 14G wire mesh. 12 Gauge 1/2 x 1 inch mesh is tighter yet but not necessary.

Wouldn't dare setting any coon trap on a roof without a board under it. Ever. No damage to roof, no droppings/hair/bait/urine on roof.

Dave, it's not that I've never used a board on a roof for raccoons, it's just that I'm so darn glad that we don't have to anymore. And yes, we get hair, urine, and droppings on the roof, but there was a lot of that already up there before we started.

Dave. Besides the mess from the bait and coon, have you actually had roof.damage using a 1/2*1" wire cage? Like Paul mentioned, most homeowners don't mind a little mess as long as their problem is solved. I'm just looking for a more effiecient way of removing them and causing no physical damage to the shingles. Jim Comstock shows it can be done, what I want to hear is if others agree. Thanks for your input

I use the comstocks with 1/2" x 1" and havent had an damage, granted most roofs out here are tile.

I've used Comstocks 1/2" x 1" with no damage to shingles.

Nice job Mr Ron........

I've also used the 1/2 by 1 inch Comstock traps both baited and in positive sets on roofs with nothing more than droppings and fur showing that a trap was there.

I've used Jim's traps for coon over holes they had made thru roof. As they were getting a new roof I didn't bother with the plywood. No damage to roof even after catching three in that trap. Only use plywood now on the ground.

I've never had any problem with coons or skunks causing damage when using 1/2 x 1 wire, but I also don't do the volume with animals that most others on this site do as I specialize with bats.

If you're looking strictly at the trap, any solid style like the Plastic catch will work. There is also a product WCS sells that allows you to mount a mounting / cover device to the roof that you'd insert your trap into.

If you don't mind modifying the traps, I did an article semi-recently in WCT Magazine about using trim coil and making a bottom tray that you can attach to the trap that prevents damage, feces, and to a degree urine from getting on the shingles or any other sensitive area.

I actually don't know the mesh sizes on my Comstocks floors, so can't really answer your question, JBarnes. Just don't concern myself with that on any coon sets.

It's always a good idea to be cognizant of cage mesh size and the damage animals can do, which can be substantial if you are not using 1/2 x 1. Of course you can put boards or tight mesh around or under traps, but it's a lot easier to use the 1/2 x I mesh traps across the board for just about everything and be on the safe side. I have the utmost respect for the ability of coon. With "hands" they are trouble if given the chance. I bought and used cage traps with 1x1 mesh in the beginning years ago believing that 1x1 was the norm for everything and if trap makers were making traps that way it had to o.k., but not so. The 1x1 mesh on roofs, in crawl spaces and on lawns is definitely problematic for coon, squirrels and skunks as I'm sure everyone with experience knows. I'm glad those using the 1/2 x 1 are sharing experiences so that those starting out in business can benefit and not have to learn by trial and error like a lot of us did. I now use 1/2 x 1 for most everything with the exception of beaver or muskrats. 1/2 x 1 seems to be coming the standard on more traps used for ADC all the time, a good thing

I agree Jim. Yours and Tomahawk pros are all I will buy from now on. 1/2 x 1 works even on SG pros but the weak door spring as well as "loose fitting" front door can result in reach out damage. The well fitted doors on yours and Tomahawk traps ( the new beefed up door spring on Tomahawk pros is great and we all know how strong they are on Comstock's)really cuts down on that. Hey by the way the pan-less squirrel traps are the bomb!!!!!!

The tomahawk 108ss and the Comstock 30" traps are my forerunners and I appreciate everyone's feedback on this post. Does anyone have an opinion on if a trap with or without a treadle is best or do both have there places? I have not had a chance to.use the Comstock wire trigger so I am not really sure if its a better fit for ADC work.

The Comstocks with wire triggers have their place. Work great in some places. Only draw back I have is you have to rebuild the trigger wires after each catch. But there are places that they are the only thing that will work. They are a little pricey, but any of the other "good" traps are getting more cashy.

The main difference in the wire trigger trap is the trigger and how it works. The Comstock trigger is made so as to fire back ward or foreword. Trigger travel is the key to how far the animal is in the trap before it fires on most wire trigger traps.

If I am not mistaken most of the comstocks have a trigger travel of about 2.5 to 3" or more before the trap fires.

In our traps "Advanced Trap" with a standard trigger it is about 1 and 1/2" to 2". We now offer a BMI trigger that holds up well and can be fired just by bumping or moving about 1/2". On the new small double doors replacing or exchanging triggers is easier. All traps can come with what trigger you want.

When catching animals in a baited situation sometimes they reach in after the bait and grab the trigger backing out. The further the trigger travel the more likely the miss. In a short double doored trap catching a large animal for the sized trap, the longer the trigger travel you want. But in the short traps you are targeting just that, a shorter smaller animal, limiting what goes through the trap or what will go through the trap, even how the trap can be baited and used. Like a 1 1/2 victor for coyotes. You can catch them but a bigger trap is better in most cases.

We offer on the small double door traps a larger basic size than a Comstock, 10"x12" So they are a little more expensive to make than a smaller trap. We make that size because that is what I have found to be the most productive size for most large coon in a none forced set.

The new models have the mechanism on the outside like my swim thru's. They are just more open appearing to the animal, easier to set, easier to remove animals, and easier to adjust and replace triggers. They can easily be stacked by placing on their side.

With a four way trigger, the trigger is more sensitive thus requiring less wire coverage over the cage area. It essentially allows for a more open appearing trap to the animal.

In comstocks demo at the NTA he shows how stable his trap is by throwing the trap in the water and it not firing. To a novice that doesn,t under stand how a trigger works, it is impressive. His trigger moves back and forth not sideways to fire. Throwing cross ways to the water won,t push the wires backward or foreword to fire. So it is more stable in that scenario, but is that best in most situations.

When catching otters, cats, or small coons, they like to avoid wires. Maybe a four way trigger may have an advantage. So having a trigger option may be an advantage.

By having no internal parts getting an animal to enter is easier and virtually no obstruction to hinder entry. The trap is just much more open. On the other hand depending on the set, internal parts might be an advantage especially on forced sets in tight places.

We (Advanced Trap) have the ability to do both, but have concentrated on what we sell the most, because we are small and growing.

I have found that perhaps the number one reason that the wire trigger trap is so successful for me is that I put them in the best place for a positive set that I can find.

I never thought about the trigger travel distance until Kirk mentioned it. I don't think that's been a problem but with a little bit of filing or grinding, I can certainly make it less if need be.

One of our technicians wanted to know why we caught the skunk when he could have easily walked around the cage. I told him that now he was learning one of the secrets of animal trapping. The skunk was taking the shortest distance to where he was going and a couple of wires weren't about to stop him. Don't tell anybody else, but the secret is that animals are lazier than humans.

I believe you missed the point.

Double doored wire trigger traps are designed with trigger travel in mind. There is a reason for it. Understanding how it functions is the point I was making. Getting a large animal in a small trap before it fires Is key to the traps function. Filing may help with one catch and set but may not help in another depending on how the trap is made and why it was designed that way.( Width, height, length, and how fast the doors are.)Even whether the trigger is vertical or horizontal. Changing the position affect trigger travel, thus effecting the catch.

Understanding how it all works increases the catch and allows the best possible means for selecting a trap to use.

Kirk, what I was thinking of is something like the cottontail rabbit where a shorter firing distance may be beneficial.

I am actually amazed at how many large male raccoons have been accidently caught in our 18 inch traps with no damage to the animal. ( I am equally amazed at why raccoons have to stick their noses in woodchuck holes to begin with )

One of the best things about the wire trigger cages is they are very, very rarely closed with nothing in them.

Ive never taken a coon off a house roof without it producing some type of damage....the least being staining ! I always use plywood under the cage...If you don't mind paying for a new roof ..then go for it !!!

This is a very interesting thread and should probably end up in the archives.

I'm glad to hear that most here have success with the 1/2"x1" wire but I'm not one of them. While I don't set on roofs, I do set in some very well manicured landscaping at times and raccoons and skunks can rip the heck out of anything within about an inch of the trap including everything under the trap.

I use the Safeguard Pro's with the 1/2"x1" wire and have had to fix a lawn a few times.

I now keep plywood or pine boards with me for when I can't chance any damage.

sqs, while I do use the pro Tomahawks without any problems, I do think that your post tends to remind me of the times I did have lawns and roofs torn up. I'll bet if I looked back at where I set my cages, most of them would be in that area between the house and the bushes, where there is no lawn. ( Not only is this not a problem with damage, but I bet the catch rate might even be higher )

Absolutely Paul, I usually set in the bushes/mulch but sometimes the call is in reference to a den hole in the manicured area. My instinct has been to set right at the hole. It has taken some experience to gain the confidence to set away from the den with assurance.

My point was that 1/2"x1" hasn't proven to be a solution to damage for me.

try a 280 coni with a corn cob stuck on the trigger. you'll getem

The big complaint with the Advanced trap is stability. Will fire when placed quite easily.

Not legal in most of our areas for ADC work. Also not what you want with kids and pets around.

Advanced trap uses a 330 conibear type trigger. The same trigger that has been used for millions upon millions of catches. They also offer more options as to trigger to dog setting than any other manufacture that I know of. Whether for body grips or a cage trap.

When needed, we have a deeper setting dog for a more firm setting that can be adjusted by lifting the dog. We have a standard dog, and a dog that can be used for a BMI four way trigger. We also offer a metal foot pan trigger that can be set flush on some models. There is a metal push pan trigger also for some models. A combo trigger from MTP also changes the way the trigger functions and adds versatility.

For anyone to make the statement as quoted above, it would be of someone who knows little of the capability of our traps or is purposely trying to get the thread deleted so as to limit knowledge of how wire trigger traps work. They have done it before.

In "all" of my demos at the NTA and the FTA I have given many examples as to how standard pan cage traps could be used as well as my own. I also show how conventional methods (snares and foot holds) work in similar situations. Go back and look at my posts and you will see I have included the same with my posts.

Recently even suggesting the purchase of a large double doored trap by a competitor. Even explaining why it should be purchased in quantity and shipped on a pallet.

Just needed to explain, so others would understand.

I have had good success with Advance traps, and have not had firing issues.

Not my experience at all. Yes, if you slam them around but so will every other trap on the market. If anything they are less sensitive to bump firing than standard pan traps yet retain the full sensitivity of the coni trigger.

I agree.

I hope Jim was just trying to point out that his design is extremely resistant to rough handling. I can attest to that through experience.

Each design has it's benefits and it's burdens. We are all lucky that both are available.

I was talking with Jim a while ago and we talk about all the hundreds of thousands of animals that have been caught in the swing down, ring lock, cages over the years. lol There's a place for ALL of the trap designs.

I guess the competition is not over yet... lol

To summarize what I have learned from everyone's opinion on this topic, its almost split down the middle whether its safe to place a 1/2*1 wire cage trap directly on a shingled roof. To prevent non targets I really prefer to set on roofs for coon removals but very much dislike carrying the protective substrate up as well. To prove whether or not once and for all whether or not damage will occur I am taking Mr. Bethells idea of a controlled experiment at the shop. If the temps ever rise above 15° in Ohio and a raccoon is captured on one my current jobs, the test will begin. I nailed a few shingles to a piece of OSB and will post the results once completed. Since all raccoons don't possess the same bad attitude when caught, I may have to catch a few before I get the best results.

Excellent idea Mr. Barnes. The only cages that we use on a roof for raccoon are the Pro Tomahawk standard sized trap and the Pro 9x9x26 inch. Both of these cages have the 1' x 1/2 inch mesh everywhere. ( And we make sure the bottom of the door has no play in it )

I like it. That is how we all learn.

From the posts above it sounds like the 1/2x 1 has not been problematic on a roof, in 14 gage. 12 gage wire is available in some traps in 1/2x1, all but bullet proof and tighter yet due to smaller holes resulting from a bump up in wire diameter. As good and tight as the 14 gage has been, I would think the chance for roof damage with even tighter 12 gage wire would be just about non-existent. 1/2x1/2 is not used much, not available in coon sized traps of which I am aware, and I have only seen it in 16 gage.

JBarnes,

Make sure that you also do this test with 20 yr, 30 yr, and 40 yr shingles. Otherwise, you may end up getting a result that works for one but not for the other.

Good point! Might as well go all out on this so we all know for sure. The shingles I currently have are 30yr shingles that are new. It may also matter the age of the shingles and how flat they lay on the roof. I dont have any of the dimensional type but it would be interesting to know if the structure of the shingles give them something to grip and pull/damage. Oddly enough i was on a job this morning in Tipp City Oh that validates another reason why this experiment is needed. On Jan 25th i setup a raccoon removal job with two cage traps spanning over the ridge of the roof with wire so each one holds each other in place without having to screw them into the roof. It had been a few days and homeowner hadnt called and i was in the area so decided to swing by and freshen up the bait. The homeowner noticed "and didnt bother letting me know" that one of the traps had been covered up with wind blown snow so he decided to climb his antenna pole "aka raccoon ladder" and fix the traps for me. For some reason he took the one trap i had on the north side of the roof and put it on the same side as the other "south" so it woudlnt get snow drift again. Thank God i didnt catch the raccoon as these are 1" wire cages all but around the bait area and he didnt even bother relocating the rubber mat i had on the north side. For one thing he should have never touched the traps "as explained in the service agreement", and who knows what would have happened as there was now no counterweight in place to hold the traps on the roof.

Jim, i have had a few PM's and there are a few posts in this thread that say don't chance it as roof damage will occur. If you are willing to cover any roof damage that occurs on my jobs using your traps Ill abort the exp't and order a skid of yours right now.

Would I be out of line if I said that 100% of the roof damage to shingles occurs when the raccoon gets his paws underneath the door of a cage that is 100% I/2 inch x 1 inch material?

Experiment is underway with raccoon #1 a large female.

Guess I must getting old. Thanks to your post and picture, I just realized that lactating females cause severe damage, where males and sterile females may cause none. Hence the problems on roof shingles.

A 280, 220, 160 on roof can be hidded, covered, camo'ed, or boxed. The coon is DOA, out of site, not clawing at anything and immune from the weather and any other sort of so called "inhumane" unpleasantness. Why are body grips not legal for nuisance work in most of your areas? In the hands of a skilled trapper, a body grip is an ideal tool in many situations. Notice the word "skilled." I have yet to Conibear a pet roof cat, probably because cats aren't fruit eaters. Are nuisance trappers from certain states less mindful, less skilled, less ethical? There will be buffoons in any profession who are careless with tools. That is no reason to criminalize the entire industry. Who else is getting tired of "them nuisance trappers are a bunch of redneck Bubba's"

Some very valid points on body grippers for roof use but I only use them there as last resorts. No matter how skilled a trapper you may be you are bound to have a less than perfect catch. If that does happen you run a high risk of damage as I have personally experienced this with a body gripper set over a soffit opening. I tell my guys if it body grippers must be used, anchor them excessively as the last thing I need is an injured coon running the neighborhood with a trap with my company trap tag on it. Just yesterday I had one of those last resort situations where I had to use a 160 over a chimney flue.

Results from female raccoon "fairly docile" on shingles for 2 nights--NO DAMAGE

As luck would have it, I just pulled a very aggressive boar coon off a Springfield Oh roof and he is now on our "mock roof".

I'll post results after two nights.

Set up on chimney is fairly easy to guide how the coon hits the trigger. The one pictured is a perfect double strike and it did not even get out of the flue. The coon was able to get far in to the trap due to the trigger spread thus the double strike. Anchoring is critical on a roof - use fresh wire!!! Never had a live coon in a 160 or 220, on a roof or anywhere else. Trigger placement is centered, with trigger spread like JBarnes. Skunks that got caught going into groundhog holes are sometimes alive, but coons -never.

I'm with JBarnes (nice catch, nice coon): Murphy's law makes a professional very circumspect about using a conibear for raccoons. Not that I can't or won't use one...

I can't help but agree with everyone who is adamant about Conibear attachments being critical. I have had two jobs where a competitor's raccoon had run off with a Conibear around his throat. One was dead and one wasn't. And I couldn't even get angry. Some years ago, one of our techs lost one the same way. I'm sure in all cases there was one mitigating factor.....stupidity!

I just roll out a bit coil that's 100% works every time when setting on the roof . I've learned things the hard way there's no short cuts IMO . Nice thing about coil it also can be bent to protect the siding on the house then used for the repair work

The experiment showed no damage at all with 14 gauge 1/2"*1" wire with both a boar and sow raccoon. Thanks to all who responded and I cant wait to order my new traps!

Jacob

Regardless of mesh size on the bottom of the trap, when placing on an asphalt roof I'd go with a plywood barrier on the bottom which extends out from the trap 4 - 6 inches on all sides. With the 1/2" x 1" mesh you may eliminate the tearing of the roof (although, never say never) you will not overcome the staining that is sure to occur from the urine & feces, especially on the lighter colored shingles. To eliminate customer complaints (and you will get them) don't stain their roof as you most assuredly will be asked to clean it, or in the extreme to replace the shingles.

I would think results might be different in the elements. Especially if the coon was high up on a roof in 0 degree weather or if it was wet rain.

Did you try it that way?

Being a newbie in the business, I started using the poly traps just because its what I learned to use. They prevent roof damage, keep the animal out of the elements and calm, and at best, out of the public eye if its on the roof for a bit. Not withstanding the few posts provided, I am rather suprised at the lack of support for this trap. It seems virtually fool proof if avoiding damage is what is being sought. Am I missing something? Or is the point of this post that most wco's don't want to use yet another type of trap? (....and lots of good stuff on here!! Thanks!)

The poly traps have become my first choice on all rooftop raccoon jobs (which = most raccoon jobs). Super-fast set-up and no issues with damage. Another plus is the fact the bait doesn't get washed away or ruined in rainy or snowy conditions. Often they just require a couple screws to secure in place, or a couple quick shelves held in place with deck screws. I screw right through the trap into the boards, or through board into trap. I use some 12x12, but the 9x9 works just as well, even on big coons.

As usual, Mr. Scheller is right. When it comes to Plasti-catch traps, size doesn't make a difference.

I also prefer the poly traps. With the added benefit of keeping the animal out of public view. They also work pretty well for skunks, helping to keep them calm.

I have a disc with engineered drawings of a poly trap using a wire trigger. Double door or single. I looked into it. I would need to build at least 1000 to be worth while. Not ready to do right now.

Sure would like to.

i used to use the board that has all the holes in it that stores use to hang up products to sell...no issue finding a hole to use that way and lightweight enough to carry up a ladder...this pic shows one coon caught in a RBG 5x5 coming out of the hole, and 1 coon in a koonce cage trap with hardware cloth under it and 1 coon in a koonce cage trap with the board i just described under it

I guess that was my lesson for today. I had never seen a Koonce trap and wasn't even very familiar with the name. So I went on line and much to my surprise, there they were in the Tomahawk catalog. So I figure they're made by Tomahawk but then I read that they're made by Trap and Trail. So my lesson for today is confusion!

when i was at the National Trappers Convention in Hutchinson, KS in 2006 i seen that trap on display and i was full into WCO work at that time...he had 8 traps left when i found him and when i walked away he had 0 left and when i got home i ordered 4 more...they are awesome traps...spring loaded front door...rear release door is easy to work and secure plus the trap when set can be put flush to a hole as the trap door opens and sits flush with the front of the trap and very well built...although now that i look..one of those traps on that roof is a hilltop cage with a gravity door...the one on the hardware cloth is a koonce

here is a couple more pics of stuff caught in the koonce cages

Betcha didn't catch that diller in Iowa!

After losing a squirrel in a coni I figured out a better way to secure. A swivel with one j hook to the ring then run a screw through the other hole of the swivel.

no dave, he was one of 12 i got from a clients yard in joplin, mo