I agree Jim. Yours and Tomahawk pros are all I will buy from now on. 1/2 x 1 works even on SG pros but the weak door spring as well as "loose fitting" front door can result in reach out damage. The well fitted doors on yours and Tomahawk traps ( the new beefed up door spring on Tomahawk pros is great and we all know how strong they are on Comstock's)really cuts down on that. Hey by the way the pan-less squirrel traps are the bomb!!!!!!

The tomahawk 108ss and the Comstock 30" traps are my forerunners and I appreciate everyone's feedback on this post. Does anyone have an opinion on if a trap with or without a treadle is best or do both have there places? I have not had a chance to.use the Comstock wire trigger so I am not really sure if its a better fit for ADC work.

The Comstocks with wire triggers have their place. Work great in some places. Only draw back I have is you have to rebuild the trigger wires after each catch. But there are places that they are the only thing that will work. They are a little pricey, but any of the other "good" traps are getting more cashy.

The main difference in the wire trigger trap is the trigger and how it works. The Comstock trigger is made so as to fire back ward or foreword. Trigger travel is the key to how far the animal is in the trap before it fires on most wire trigger traps.

If I am not mistaken most of the comstocks have a trigger travel of about 2.5 to 3" or more before the trap fires.

In our traps "Advanced Trap" with a standard trigger it is about 1 and 1/2" to 2". We now offer a BMI trigger that holds up well and can be fired just by bumping or moving about 1/2". On the new small double doors replacing or exchanging triggers is easier. All traps can come with what trigger you want.

When catching animals in a baited situation sometimes they reach in after the bait and grab the trigger backing out. The further the trigger travel the more likely the miss. In a short double doored trap catching a large animal for the sized trap, the longer the trigger travel you want. But in the short traps you are targeting just that, a shorter smaller animal, limiting what goes through the trap or what will go through the trap, even how the trap can be baited and used. Like a 1 1/2 victor for coyotes. You can catch them but a bigger trap is better in most cases.

We offer on the small double door traps a larger basic size than a Comstock, 10"x12" So they are a little more expensive to make than a smaller trap. We make that size because that is what I have found to be the most productive size for most large coon in a none forced set.

The new models have the mechanism on the outside like my swim thru's. They are just more open appearing to the animal, easier to set, easier to remove animals, and easier to adjust and replace triggers. They can easily be stacked by placing on their side.

With a four way trigger, the trigger is more sensitive thus requiring less wire coverage over the cage area. It essentially allows for a more open appearing trap to the animal.

In comstocks demo at the NTA he shows how stable his trap is by throwing the trap in the water and it not firing. To a novice that doesn,t under stand how a trigger works, it is impressive. His trigger moves back and forth not sideways to fire. Throwing cross ways to the water won,t push the wires backward or foreword to fire. So it is more stable in that scenario, but is that best in most situations.

When catching otters, cats, or small coons, they like to avoid wires. Maybe a four way trigger may have an advantage. So having a trigger option may be an advantage.

By having no internal parts getting an animal to enter is easier and virtually no obstruction to hinder entry. The trap is just much more open. On the other hand depending on the set, internal parts might be an advantage especially on forced sets in tight places.

We (Advanced Trap) have the ability to do both, but have concentrated on what we sell the most, because we are small and growing.

I have found that perhaps the number one reason that the wire trigger trap is so successful for me is that I put them in the best place for a positive set that I can find.

I never thought about the trigger travel distance until Kirk mentioned it. I don't think that's been a problem but with a little bit of filing or grinding, I can certainly make it less if need be.

One of our technicians wanted to know why we caught the skunk when he could have easily walked around the cage. I told him that now he was learning one of the secrets of animal trapping. The skunk was taking the shortest distance to where he was going and a couple of wires weren't about to stop him. Don't tell anybody else, but the secret is that animals are lazier than humans.

I believe you missed the point.

Double doored wire trigger traps are designed with trigger travel in mind. There is a reason for it. Understanding how it functions is the point I was making. Getting a large animal in a small trap before it fires Is key to the traps function. Filing may help with one catch and set but may not help in another depending on how the trap is made and why it was designed that way.( Width, height, length, and how fast the doors are.)Even whether the trigger is vertical or horizontal. Changing the position affect trigger travel, thus effecting the catch.

Understanding how it all works increases the catch and allows the best possible means for selecting a trap to use.

Kirk, what I was thinking of is something like the cottontail rabbit where a shorter firing distance may be beneficial.

I am actually amazed at how many large male raccoons have been accidently caught in our 18 inch traps with no damage to the animal. ( I am equally amazed at why raccoons have to stick their noses in woodchuck holes to begin with )

One of the best things about the wire trigger cages is they are very, very rarely closed with nothing in them.

Ive never taken a coon off a house roof without it producing some type of damage....the least being staining ! I always use plywood under the cage...If you don't mind paying for a new roof ..then go for it !!!

This is a very interesting thread and should probably end up in the archives.

I'm glad to hear that most here have success with the 1/2"x1" wire but I'm not one of them. While I don't set on roofs, I do set in some very well manicured landscaping at times and raccoons and skunks can rip the heck out of anything within about an inch of the trap including everything under the trap.

I use the Safeguard Pro's with the 1/2"x1" wire and have had to fix a lawn a few times.

I now keep plywood or pine boards with me for when I can't chance any damage.

sqs, while I do use the pro Tomahawks without any problems, I do think that your post tends to remind me of the times I did have lawns and roofs torn up. I'll bet if I looked back at where I set my cages, most of them would be in that area between the house and the bushes, where there is no lawn. ( Not only is this not a problem with damage, but I bet the catch rate might even be higher )

Absolutely Paul, I usually set in the bushes/mulch but sometimes the call is in reference to a den hole in the manicured area. My instinct has been to set right at the hole. It has taken some experience to gain the confidence to set away from the den with assurance.

My point was that 1/2"x1" hasn't proven to be a solution to damage for me.

try a 280 coni with a corn cob stuck on the trigger. you'll getem

The big complaint with the Advanced trap is stability. Will fire when placed quite easily.

Not legal in most of our areas for ADC work. Also not what you want with kids and pets around.

Advanced trap uses a 330 conibear type trigger. The same trigger that has been used for millions upon millions of catches. They also offer more options as to trigger to dog setting than any other manufacture that I know of. Whether for body grips or a cage trap.

When needed, we have a deeper setting dog for a more firm setting that can be adjusted by lifting the dog. We have a standard dog, and a dog that can be used for a BMI four way trigger. We also offer a metal foot pan trigger that can be set flush on some models. There is a metal push pan trigger also for some models. A combo trigger from MTP also changes the way the trigger functions and adds versatility.

For anyone to make the statement as quoted above, it would be of someone who knows little of the capability of our traps or is purposely trying to get the thread deleted so as to limit knowledge of how wire trigger traps work. They have done it before.

In "all" of my demos at the NTA and the FTA I have given many examples as to how standard pan cage traps could be used as well as my own. I also show how conventional methods (snares and foot holds) work in similar situations. Go back and look at my posts and you will see I have included the same with my posts.

Recently even suggesting the purchase of a large double doored trap by a competitor. Even explaining why it should be purchased in quantity and shipped on a pallet.

Just needed to explain, so others would understand.

I have had good success with Advance traps, and have not had firing issues.

Not my experience at all. Yes, if you slam them around but so will every other trap on the market. If anything they are less sensitive to bump firing than standard pan traps yet retain the full sensitivity of the coni trigger.

I agree.

I hope Jim was just trying to point out that his design is extremely resistant to rough handling. I can attest to that through experience.

Each design has it's benefits and it's burdens. We are all lucky that both are available.

I was talking with Jim a while ago and we talk about all the hundreds of thousands of animals that have been caught in the swing down, ring lock, cages over the years. lol There's a place for ALL of the trap designs.

I guess the competition is not over yet... lol

To summarize what I have learned from everyone's opinion on this topic, its almost split down the middle whether its safe to place a 1/2*1 wire cage trap directly on a shingled roof. To prevent non targets I really prefer to set on roofs for coon removals but very much dislike carrying the protective substrate up as well. To prove whether or not once and for all whether or not damage will occur I am taking Mr. Bethells idea of a controlled experiment at the shop. If the temps ever rise above 15° in Ohio and a raccoon is captured on one my current jobs, the test will begin. I nailed a few shingles to a piece of OSB and will post the results once completed. Since all raccoons don't possess the same bad attitude when caught, I may have to catch a few before I get the best results.

Excellent idea Mr. Barnes. The only cages that we use on a roof for raccoon are the Pro Tomahawk standard sized trap and the Pro 9x9x26 inch. Both of these cages have the 1' x 1/2 inch mesh everywhere. ( And we make sure the bottom of the door has no play in it )