Looking to buy a new rifle and not sure what I want. Just want something different, no real reason. Maybe hunt some varmints. I've seen some by CZ and TC Venture and I can't decide what to get. Give me some opinions and convince me!

You will never go wrong with a CZ in my opinion. I own several of them-they are all tack drivers.The only TC guns I know of-guys have had some accuracy issues. As far as calibers-it all depends upon what you are shooting? Foxes,coyotes or just ground hogs etc. do you reload? 22-250 is an excellent caliber for coyotes-but very heavy on foxes-they all are unless you load down or get into the lighter .17 guns re; .17 Remington or .17 Hornet(better on the thin skinned stuff).Ranges you are going to be shooting is also an issue.If you don't need a 400 yard gun-rule out the 22-250 and get a 204-they are very fun and shoot fast and flat. Pretty broad question to answer perfectly.I have owned 223's but they would not be my choice unless you want cheap military ammo-they they are a great choice.Just isn't mine.

I shoot a lot of different varmint calibers and makes of guns.CZ is an excellent choice-so is Tikka.Both are tack drivers.

I like all three but for varmints the advice given above nailed it perfectly.

I just bought a Remington SPS in a .223 with a 1:12 twist. Put a Jewel trigger in it and a Choate stock on it. It was new in the box and rusting so I did a custom Duracoat paint job on it. Never got it below a 1" group at 100 yds. Won't ever buy another Remington unless it is another 5R.

Don't overlook the Savage rifles.

204 in encore pro hunter, IMO. My Thompson 204 zeroed @ 200 yards has a tiny ragged 3 shot group. I dunno what thompsons your talking about, mine has never had an accuracy issue. An for 22-250, burnt barrel quick. An 5.56/223, accurate, well mine is. Dpms mini sass. Depends on what, where, an why you want to shoot. 223 would have a better wind drift control. Take in mind 75-77 grain match ammo vs 32-40 grain v-max. So, pro hunter in 204 would rock

T/C Encore- Heavy Barrel- in 223
Hornady 53gr V-MAX

Maybe 20 a box... JUST FREEKING AWESOME ON YOTES!!!!

I own a Rem Mod 700 sps in .223. With 26 gr BLC2, Win Small Primers and 55 gr Sierra Game Kings, I get 1/4" groups. I use Winchester brass. The rifle is bedded. What makes me mad, is Remington is still putting junk triggers on the rifle. The trigger they are putting on it now, breaks clean as can be, but is about 4 lbs and there is no adjustment. It is driving me crazy.

I have a Savage Walking Varminter in 223

has a medium heavy barrel but is a tack driver

I think all the guns you listed are great varmit guns. I love the 6.5 creedmore though. I have owned several guns but none that shot sub moa still at 200 yards from the factory like it does. 3 1/2 inch group at 700. Not saying that some others won't. I just haven't seen it. I shoot hornady brass, hodgens 4350 powder, cci primers, 140 grain hornady amax bullets. mines a ruger predator model with the heavy barrel and 2 stage adjustable trigger. It has a Boyd's stock with a Burris eliminator scope. Buying a gun is always a hard decision for me lol

Looking myself at similar caliber rifle. Although I just love my T/C Venture in 300 Win Mag, I was disappointed to see that T/C only offers the Venture in the ultra slow 1:12" twist in their .223 offering. That's fine at 55 grain bullets and under, but I want to shoot at least the 62 gr and possibly 70 grain bullet offerings, and am very interested in the Barnes TSX in that weight range for my granddaughter to hunt whitetail with. The Ruger American line of rifles is built with the 1:8" twist barrel, very able to handle the heavier bullets, so that is where I am currently looking. Current toss-up between the compact stainless model, the short Ranch Rifle or the standard size stainless version, all of which come in under 6.5 lbs.
The 22-250 is of no interest to me as I have a .243 Win which can effectively outshoot the 22-250 with less wind drift at longer distances. Working up a load currently for the 62 grain Barnes Varmint Grenade bullets, and also working up a load for the 95 grain Nosler Ballistic Silver Tip for whitetail for the .243.

I proudly own a Remington 700 VLS with a 6x24x40 Burris scope. It is a tack driver, hands down. Its a 22-250 and I shoot the cheapest ammo you can get. Remington UMC 50 grain hollow point. I have shot all the higher priced ammo and they all shoot the same.
I have the factory trigger in it but some adjustments were done to get it to 15 ounces. I fully free floated the barrel and thats about it. I can hold a 5 shot, 6 inch group at 500 yds. At 200 yards, I can keep them in a dime.
I have the Rock River AR in 223 and it stays at the house untill I know I'm going to be doing a lot of walking. After owning a 22-250, its hard to use a 223 again.
As far as you thinking about buying a CZ. You can't go wrong with them. I own one in a 22 long rifle for competition shoots. It will put 5 bullets through the same hole at 50 yards. The triggers are easy to work on and they are cheap! Mine has a hair trigger of 6 ounces. Ya dont sneeze with it off safety.

I will never be w/o my .204. And it's a TC barrel.

Get a 220 swift

Try a Ruger Hawkeye in .22-250. i love mine

If you want to save fur and you reload, I'd go with the .204 using 35 grain Berger bullets. If you don't reload, I'd go with a .223, because of price of ammunition. .22-250's are very hard on fox if you ever hunt them.

IMHO if you don't reload , you don't shoot any kind of competition, and you aren't shooting at $100 dollar coyotes....I would get a .223. The savings in ammo will pay for the rifle in a short amount of time if you shoot much. I have alot of really good rifles that are collecting dust because .223 is cheap and kills everything that gets shot with it. Hornady loads a 55 gr softpoint that can be found for about 40cents a round. Compare that to $1 a round and up for the other calibers. If you shoot 1000 rounds you saved $600. You can buy a nice rifle for that.

Me its a 204, 220 swift ,of the trusty 243 with 58 gram vmax a around 4000 ft a sec.. my personal favorite

Bet that 53 grain zips! What's your zero at? 100yrd or 200yrd?

Love my .204

Can't beat the 22-250 for yotes IMO

This is a good round. A 55 gr bullet traveling 3240, sighted in at 1" high at 100yds, is about 1" low at 200 yds. How many people are going to be shooting further than that, anyway? Yeah, I know, some are going to be shooting 400 yds. It can do that too, if needed. Just educate yourself on the trajectory.

Ttt

It may be a tack driver but if it blows up your fur..........what's the point ??

For coyote or varmints, I like my T.20
First bullet I loaded was a 33 gr vmax, shot it at 4375fps, then went to 35 great Berger at 4100fps

22-250

Bruce..what rounds are you using?

try a .17 Remington.

Agreed with this!

I also agree , if you don't have a specific use for the 204 or 22-250 you will get more shooting , for lower price ammo and longer barrel life with 223 and there is little you can't do with a 223 the 22-250 will get you a few hundred feet per second faster and flatter but unless your shooting past 250 yards that probably won't matter much.

I have several rifles in all the calibers mentioned above, and all have their strong points, but by far the one I fire the most is my Mossberg MVP in 5.56 matched with a Nikon P223 scope. It utilizes AR style magazines, is 1:9 twist same as the AR and is super accurate. Most people don't think of the 5.56 as a 1000 yard gun, but while shooting at the Seven Springs Sniper Challenge with WWP, we were blowing milk jugs apart at 850 yards with no problems. Plus they are very economical to shoot.

For me its the .223 / 5.56 ..... I roll my own and for the few more feet per second the 22-250 can come up with compared to a warm 5.56 takes a fair bit more powder, the brass is more expensive and does not have the life of the 5.56. Thats my reasoning and I am sticking to it until I change my mind

I have both a .223 In a AR platform and a 22-250 in a bolt action rifle, Both of these guns are spitting seriously tight 3/4'' groups at 100 yrds

I primarily have these rifles setup for coyote hunting and have shot a fair amount of coyotes with each weapon.. More then enough power behind each round to anchor a coyote if you put the round where it needs to be, But if I had to be honest I would pick the 22-250 over the .223 simply because for me Speed is king
Shoot 35+ coyotes with each round and you'll notice the 22-250 is putting them down with more authority

Not knocking the .223 its a very capable round and I have killed more dogs it then my 22-250 simply because it is my dedicated nighttime hunting rifle & it serves me well...
I also do not care about tearing up the fur on these Ohio coyotes, both these rounds can put a hole in a dog that will blow your mind and a 22-250 pushing a v-max is not pretty but to me "Dead is Dead"
If saving fur is on the agenda a smaller caliber or possibly one of these rounds pushing a Soft point would be more ideal but I cannot say that for a fact since I have no experience in that area!


.223 dogs






22-250 dogs

Exactly !!

I use a 17 Remington for my fur gun. I shoot a Genco 26 grain rebated hollow point bullet for both Fox and coyote. For my kill/tournament gun I use old Ruger tang safety 220 Swift. I use a SPSX 50 grain bullet

i have a ruger in 204 my dad got and sighted in but never got to use.it will get a set of stand up sticks mounted on it and replace my single 223 i have used for 20 yrs.

.204

I don’t use it on foxes or coyotes I use it for groundhogs only, I use a CZ 22 Hornet for fox and coyotes

60 grain nosier partitions

Availability, cost, affordable rifles, and effective. You will only perform up to a guns capabilities with a lot of practice. .223 gets my nod. I don't currently own one, and probably never will again. I reload and prefer a .22-250.

The fact you seem set on buying a gun so I won't go into the whole "how to make the gun you already own work."

I agree with the points on most of the above. But for most folks the .223 will be a do all from 13 line ground squirrels to ground hogs to coyote and beaver. The choice of bullet and shot placement are the deciding factor. And the choices are mind boggling and over the counter for that caliber. You can, as previously noted, become familiar with you gun and round and shoot wayyyy out. Most people never will on a game animal unless they create that situation for the fun of doing it. Even less likely back east.


I am interested in how many people are loving their .17 centerfires these days. Interesting.

And if I lived in the OHIO Valley like Ray, I may just let them lay as I saw the fur forecast for his coyotes in Trappers Post last night; wow....nearly valueless in prime. Must be bad color and like a Brillo pad.

Ray I'd be putting up the good one's! I know there few and far between. I look at them like lottery tickets, put enough up and you'll get a winner. Probably not as good as those Minnesota coyotes that Ringbill puts up, and the boys in Alberta! LOL!!! Hope Hornady keeps making there SPSX in 50 gr. Probably one of the best bullets out there, for 22 caliber rifles. V-max and 204's ya better have a lot of dental floss.

Hi ray12, what kind of light are you using at night? Looks like you are having luck at night. I had like 5 or so yotes in my field by the sign in the snow. I went out and called today, nothing. Might work at night here better. I would like to try it. I have called a few times with no luck here, and they are around.

You betcha these dogs are not being tossed away but It definitely is not making me a rich man either






I'm definitely not an expert but if your interested send me a PM id hate to highjack this thread

All the calibers mentioned will work on the fox or coyotes. My problem is I love all the small calibers from the 22 hornet to the 22-250. There's a few that have not been mentioned that I love to use on fox when MN. had a high population of the reds the 221 fireball and the classic 222 Remington both of these are tack drivers with the right bullet weight and powder combo and are a blast to shoot. My Tac 20 and 204 are excellent also but I have to give the 204 the nod here for it's easier to get ammo if you don't hand load the Tac 20 is a speed demon when I was working up loads and bullet combos my chrono had a load at 4500fps I dropped down to 3900fps with a heavier bullet to save on barrel life. I love the 22-250 when I go out west to the Dakotas for the bigger coyotes and usually higher winds and open country or the 243 Akley. I shouldn't forget the popular 223Rem./5.56 I love both of these calibers too. It doesn't matter what you shoot as long as you like it and are confident that it's going to hit what your aiming at. Their all good varmint guns. Keep knocking down fur guys it's what gets the heart racing and blood flowing there's nothing better than the smell of burnt gunpowder. Thank God for the 2nd Amendment!

sure like what I am reading about the 224 Valkerie

Are we talking called coyotes here ?

A 250 can do what the other's can and more.

The Swift is King!

ive shot them all, but I own a .204 - no particular reason other than maybe wow factor of 4000 fps plus factory ammo

what you want to do with it is the real question.
i got mine for target and groundhogs - but around here, a 300 yard shot is really stretching it - most are well under 200.

wind will really push those light bullets

Wow, your t20 got 4500? I had one at4420, didn't blow primer

If that's all you got

I own each of these calibers you listed + a 220 Swift. My go to rifle is the 204. Why? I can't really answer. All are capable of anchoring coyotes at ranges from 400 or less. it could be I just like the speed & less than 1 in groups.

You could build yourself an ar 15, the 204 and 223 uses the same bolt carrier group, I built myself an upper in 204 ruger and it is awesome, got the 18 inch, wilson combat. Can build the upper for both 223 and 204 so that you can switch back and forth if you'd like, use a 223 wylde barrel or 556 barrel if you care going to build a 223 upper.

Ttt

I got a 22-250 and I also reload for it and cast my own boolits for it.You can reload that to what ever way you want it to shoot if you do your part.I got my to shoot like a 22lr , that is a 45 grs cast boolit PB,I do use the GC one also.For short and use a cast 60grs for what ever I want on it.I use it on woodchuck and did not mess up the animal or skin.So it is up to the user to do there part on any thing they use.

No matter what you pick at times you will have fur damage, all calibers you mentioned will do the job day or night. Sooo throw the dart and pick one and go hunting.

Another vote for the .220 Swift. Not for smaller critters than Coyote though. .22-250 next. You can load either down if you want. Much more versatile.

haven`t been able to play with them together yet, but I did have a .17-223 and a .17 Rem. at the same time. While the cases were almost identical they were off just enough that neather round would fit in the other chamber Iand I would expect that Rem. did the samething here when they desighen the .17 Fireball.

No they didn't.... Not completely.

In the first place, the 17 Remington is parented off the 222 Rem Mag case and not the 223 case as is often stated. It and the normal 17-223 are significantly different in comparison to the 17 Mach IV/17 Rem FB differences. Beyond that, there are more than one "17-223" wildcat reamer running around the shooting world and they might also differ from each other, but none are clones of the 17 Remington case.

The 17 Rem FB is just a "standardized" and cloned typical 17 Mach IV. With the Mach IV, also being a wildcat, there were and are also numerous variations in reamers as there are no SAAMI specs for wildcat cartridges and reamers like there are for factory/legitimate rounds.

Depending on the variation/reamer that you might have in your particular 17 Mach IV, the 17 Rem FB cartridge might chamber just fine and vice versa. Or they might not.....again based on your 17 Mach IV chamber.

For all practical purposes, they are the same identical cartridge. The 17 Rem FB is standard and all reamers will be virtually the same. The 17 Mach IV has a few different chamber variations floating around with generally different neck clearance diameters, etc. that might prevent a 17 Rem FB cartridge from working in my 17 Mach IV rifle but it might chamber fine and shoot fine in your 17 Mach IV rifle with a different neck clearance.

Basically the only differences in some of them are neck dimensions that might vary from one 17 Mach IV to the next. Buy a rifle chambered in 17 FB, get 17 FB brass and dies, and you will be fine.

Words of caution:

If you also own a 17 Mach IV, the FB brass might work just fine in it also, or it may not... Don't be surprised either way.... Again, it will all depend on the particular 17 Mach IV reamer dimensions you have in your Mach IV rifle.

For safety purposes, you need to check outside neck dimensions between the two cartridges if you can or plan to interchange cartridges. For example, a 17 Rem FB might chamber in your Mach IV rifle, but the neck clearance dimension might make a perfectly safe FB load have excessive chamber pressure in your Mach IV chamber.

Taken from another forum. You might want to consider the .17FB above. If you can find a rifle ammo is available if you don't reload. This is a standardized SAMMI cartridge, not a wildcat anymore. Will do minimal fur damage. I grew up in Upstate and my woodchuck hunting buddy almost always used a .17 Mach 4 which is for all intent identical to this. Woodchucks would have a drop of blood on the fur where the bullet entered, never an exit. Mush inside. That's handloaded to 3900 fps.

I shot a lot of fox with .223 fmjbt 55 gr
I shot a good number of coyote with a .223 nosler 55 gr, it worked pretty good.
The .223 I shot 3.5" high at 100 yds to be dead on at 280-290 yds.
35 gr Berger in my t.20 it is 1.5" high at 100yds and dead on or an inch low at 300 yds, it like the flatter shooting t.20

22-250 hands down

I handload, so its 22-250 for myself.
Deadly Accurate !