Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560491
06/23/16 03:04 PM
06/23/16 03:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 47,342 james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 47,342
james bay frontierOnt.
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Wolves need to be managed on a trapline.Wolves are a bad predator and too many on your line will cost you. Trappers around here who maintain healthy numbers of beaver on their lines also take some wolves each year. In some parts of Ontario(central) fisher and marten co-exist.In the north the marten population on a trapline will suffer if fisher numbers start to climb.Fisher numbers are highest in Ontario in the Ottawa valley and surrounding area.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560571
06/23/16 04:33 PM
06/23/16 04:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,497 Wisconsin
RdFx
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,497
Wisconsin
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Fishers were in the Marten introduction area and population was balls to the wall for a few yrs but have taken a drastic drop becuase or canine diseases they have contracted. Fishers have moved south in Wi so hopefully Marten can increase populations but Wi Dnr cut funding for Marten studies so thats where it stands now.
RdFx
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: WIMarshRAT]
#5560661
06/23/16 06:16 PM
06/23/16 06:16 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
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So 49er, should trend data be used to increase/decrease or should it only be used to maintain stable population?
Now that I have had time to clear my thoughts of that phrase I hope to never hear again I have pondered your question. My answer is yes, yes and yes. Maybe i'm not so clear headed.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: Steven 49er]
#5560697
06/23/16 06:40 PM
06/23/16 06:40 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,998 East-Central Wisconsin
bblwi
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,998
East-Central Wisconsin
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One won't get trends unless one has data so utilizing population estimation models to me is essential. Sure we can all argue the accuracy of the data and that makes for a lot of parking lot type discussion. The use of estimation models helps establish numerical values and thus trends can be determined. Collaring and other sample work can help determine age structure, health and reproductive success which are all important in establishing trends. This is important really for all species and not just species we choose to hero worship or bash.
It is interesting in WI that we have high densities of say deer in the farmland area where the bulk of the land is private and thus using hunting to manage populations is quite limited. It is also the area with the least predation occurs and thus managing deer in that area is a political/social issue and not a science issue. Up north with deeper woods and much more public hunting area we have an abundance of predators in general and thus deer in many areas are below the population goals. Managing predators in the north is a political issue as well as managing deer is in the farmland areas. Habitat suitability for many species can and does change quickly in WI as succession is a natural process and early succession is always more rapid than more mature timeframes of succession. In many areas of North America where wolves have been around forever with say sheep, elk, deer, moose, beaver etc. there is a balance and in many cases very sustainable populations of wolf major prey species. That leads me to believe that here in WI in the areas where we have wolves, deer, elk, bear etc. the habitat supports the predators better than the prey.
Bryce
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560757
06/23/16 07:28 PM
06/23/16 07:28 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
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Bryce, those trends have already been determined.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5560760
06/23/16 07:30 PM
06/23/16 07:30 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933 WI
WIMarshRAT
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933
WI
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White, I was wondering how long you were going to hold out on us with that info.
That comparison is pretty impressive.
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...it's about learning to dance in the rain!
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: Steven 49er]
#5560762
06/23/16 07:32 PM
06/23/16 07:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933 WI
WIMarshRAT
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,933
WI
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Bryce, those trends have already been determined.
Have they here?
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: WIMarshRAT]
#5560765
06/23/16 07:36 PM
06/23/16 07:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,745 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,745
McGrath, AK
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White, I was wondering how long you were going to hold out on us with that info.
That comparison is pretty impressive. LOL !! Well there it is for what it's worth. My personal viewpoint is that wolves need to be manged but I also like having a few around.
Mean As Nails
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: WIMarshRAT]
#5560851
06/23/16 08:20 PM
06/23/16 08:20 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
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Bryce, those trends have already been determined.
Have they here? You tell me. Do the trends of a healthy species vary everywhe
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: white17]
#5560957
06/23/16 09:29 PM
06/23/16 09:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,701 Three Lakes,WI 73
corky
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,701
Three Lakes,WI 73
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White, I was wondering how long you were going to hold out on us with that info.
That comparison is pretty impressive. LOL !! Well there it is for what it's worth. My personal viewpoint is that wolves need to be manged but I also like having a few around. Absolutely correct. The more mange on wolves, the better.
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5561032
06/23/16 10:09 PM
06/23/16 10:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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Any ideas on why the marten don't do well here? There's a fair population in Mn.? isn't there? In MN, marten populations are densest where you have true boreal forests. Go to NW MN and there are very, very few marten. NE MN with it's boreal conditions has tons of marten. WI doesn't have the extensive areas of boreal forest that MN does so they lack marten. Sure, marten will survive outside of those conditions but the population densities will be much lower. Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: Diggerman]
#5561036
06/23/16 10:11 PM
06/23/16 10:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580 Duluth, MN
Clark
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,580
Duluth, MN
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Why should a "new " species take precedent over existing managed species. We should manage deer, bear, etc. in spite off, not because of wolves. Wolves are the newcomer and should be managed as such. once they begin to pay their own way they should then get some attention. Let me point out the obvious: we are the new species. Clark
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. -Albert Einstein
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: corky]
#5561062
06/23/16 10:40 PM
06/23/16 10:40 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,745 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,745
McGrath, AK
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LOL !! Well there it is for what it's worth.
My personal viewpoint is that wolves need to be manged but I also like having a few around.
Absolutely correct. The more mange on wolves, the better. HAHAHH ! Good catch ! Obviously I meant "managed"
Mean As Nails
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: Clark]
#5561093
06/23/16 11:01 PM
06/23/16 11:01 PM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,662 Wi.
Diggerman
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 6,662
Wi.
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Why should a "new " species take precedent over existing managed species. We should manage deer, bear, etc. in spite off, not because of wolves. Wolves are the newcomer and should be managed as such. once they begin to pay their own way they should then get some attention. Let me point out the obvious: we are the new species. Clark We are the only species that matters, without us this conversation wouldn't be happening. We also are the only species that is "trying" to manage others. It is the quality of our out door experience that matters, the only thing that matters. What matters to you is not what may matter to me. Wolves are a big drain on our resourses and need to begin to pay their way. If they can be hunted as do deer, bear, coyote and can take the pressure they can stay, other than that no free rides.
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: handitrapper]
#5561097
06/23/16 11:06 PM
06/23/16 11:06 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
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It is the quality of our out door experience that matters, the only thing that matters.
Uggh. It raised it's ugly head again Justin!
Quality of experience is the most liberal term I ever have had the displeasure of hearing.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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Re: Wisconsin Wolves
[Re: bblwi]
#5561099
06/23/16 11:07 PM
06/23/16 11:07 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019 MN
Steven 49er
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 11,019
MN
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It sure makes sense to me that the way to make sure a species thrives is to put a season or harvest on that species as that insures, research, population data and more probably a healthier population density from a survival and disease aspect. It will be interesting to see the results of say several seasons of no harvest on wolves as to pup mortality, litter size, disease prevalence, growth rates etc.
Bryce Bryce why wouldn't the data of "say several seasons of no harvest" not already have been collected.
Last edited by Steven 49er; 06/23/16 11:07 PM.
"Gold is money, everything else is just credit" JP Morgan
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