If its that wide open there with that much area between cover you can't have too many deer to work with, do you? Around here its farm country but its still hard to get more than a couple hundred yards from some kind of cover. And its not much of a feat to harvest a bunch of deer. I have had several years where I got a deer every time I went out. 2013 I got 5 deer on four hunts. 2014 got 6 deer on five hunts. Must be much different circumstances out there.

This spike that I posted about is not in farm country. The state's Central Forest has some big bucks, but generally I see a larger share of small bucks like this in the forest region where food is more scarce. Every year I seemingly get 1 like this on camera.
I hope someone doesn't mistake it for a doe. Doe tags are scarce in this zone though.

That did NOT answer the question on why you said yearlings seldom if ever breed does?

I did not say yearlings seldom if ever breed does. I said SPIKES breed few if any does. There are lots of yearlings that are 6-8 points those ones will beat the snot out of most spikes trying to hone in on their territories.

How about (them straws) being used at $15,000.00+ per crack??
They using (2) different straws! lol
I have seen (2) separate wild bucks mounting the same Doe, ONLY once though, so far! the 3rd buck was getting ready though

Back when I started bow hunting I knew I needed to learn more
So for forty plus years I have sent for and read every study done on WILD deed
And i have not even learned a small part of the big picture
And if you could learn it all
Would hunting even be fun anymore
I thinks not

If a spike and a 4x4 are both yearlings and same body size, it's ATTITUDE that wins

Bottom line is a yearling whether a spike or a basket 4x4 will and can breed the crap out of does if they can pin her away from older bucks!

If it makes you smile and puts meat on your table, pull the trigger. All of this bull has taken the joy out of hunting for a lot of people. I'm just sick of people telling me what I can and can't shoot.

I completely agree with Doug, this antler worship is indeed ruining hunting.

I disagree with bucksnbears . Many fights between bucks never happen based on antler size. They size each other up and often times the one with the smaller headgear simply walks away. They know that a bigger rack is a big advantage. Attitude absolutely does play a role, but the one with the bigger rack is more likely to have the bigger attitude in my opinion. Much like a teenage jock thinking that he's superior to the school nerd.

I tend to shoot whatever I feel like. What that is depends on a lot of variables. Bow season lasts from Oct 1st till the middle of January, so I tend to pass on small bucks, especially spikes, and does that still have this years fawns with them. Now gun season is only 7 day split over 2 weekends, so unless its a fawn I abide by the if its brown its down mentality.

However I can tell you that over the last five or 6 years of not shooting spikes. We have seen an increase in the number of 6, 8, and 10 point bucks. Could it be a coincidence, yes.

I am not a trophy hunter by any means, but I do like to see a large buck or 2 during the season.

Bucksnbears is right. Do the math. Takes 24-48 hours for a buck to tend and breed a doe (several times). If the rut is 10 days long he will at best get 5-6 does. Who breeds all the other does? Lesser/younger bucks.

X2
Ruined my bow hunting for years, taken plenty of trash bucks(as they say)with my bow when I was younger, never missed the rut phases as I wanted to get it done before gun season..when this horn porn took over I admit I fell for it, and at the same time I lost out on the fun of bow hunting...I would hide the small bucks that I shot from my friends as it was a joke if I harvested a buck smaller than 120"....don't get me wrong, I do enjoy chasing mature whitetail, but chasing was just what I did....have great memories with my bow harvesting a few spike horns...meat is great, and the spikes make great handles for knives, cabinet pulls, fireplace tool handles and so on, bet most won't cut up a so called trophy for this....enjoy your hunts....

You guys are apparently assuming that there is only one good buck in the area. Leave the high quality bucks and THEY can do the majority of the breeding instead of relying on this mystical HE or HIM.

Bottom line there will never be meaningful improvements to genetics in whitetails because the people heading it up are ignoring basic genetic principals. They are at best practicing Age Class Management. Which although it will allow for harvest of bigger bucks, its NOT because they are better quality.

This thread is y I bought a 108 ac to hunt and nobody can say a word about antler quality.
We kill basket sixes to hog 10 pt on it

I am in a position to be able to influence what can and can't be shot on a good bit of property. I don't try to implement any kind of antler restrictions though. My grandfather started a hunting club with families and kids in mind. I follow this too. I have some people say they want restrictions, and I have people tell me they don't. I tell them that I will not get take sides, and that if they want it a certain way, they can put it up for a vote, and they can decide that way. They've voted on restrictions twice, and it failed twice, but it was close. I didn't vote.


I let friend and family come and hunt. They ask what they can shoot when on our property or on my deer stands. I tell them that I would prefer them go by what I shoot: Spikes, Does, and bigger bucks, HOWEVER, if there's a deer that comes out that they say "id be proud to shoot that one", then by all means go for it. Personally, the only deer that I would rather not shoot myself are small bucks. 4 and 6 points are safe from me, so far at least, and small "basket 8s and 10s". Do I have a problem with ANYONE shooting whatever legal deer they want to? Absolutely not. I'm glad for em. I just choose to let the small (read as YOUNG bucks) live. Why? Well, does are usually easy to get, so if I need meat, that's my first choice. Spikes, well, I'll shoot every single spike that I can. My reason is my personal choice, based on what Dr. Mickey Hellickson told me personally as we we eating supper one night. I'll keep what he told me from this thread, but if anyone would like to hear it, send me a PM.

So...about the small, young bucks (spikes aside): I don't shoot them, because I would rather shoot an older buck with more antlers, even if that means I don't get one for years. A young buck can't get to be a mature buck with even bigger antlers if it's shot when it's 1.5 years old. I have people tell me "well, you might as well shoot any buck you see, because the next guy will." My answer is always the same--yes, the next guy may very well shoot the small buck I passed on, but if everyone shot every young buck they see, then we'd have even fewer older bucks. There's a feeling of satisfaction knowing that I COULD have shot the young 4,6, or 8, but didn't. Maybe someone will get him when he can get a bit older. Besides----does are my favorite to eat, and second place on the table goes to spikes, which a whole heck of a lot of spikes are 1.5 years old. I hear "I shot an old spike, it was probably 4 1/2 years old." and I hear "yeah, that 125 lb 8 pt I shot was probably 4 1/2 or 5 1/2 years old so he was going down hill fast." I don't even bother saying anything anymore to statements like that. Mainly because I've learned that every deer hunter is the most experienced on the hoof and jawbone aging person that knows everything about deer that can be known, and telling them any different tends to end up meaning they get mad, won't believe any differently, and it's just not worth the hassle anymore.


I'll say it again::: I choose to shoot spikes, does, and bucks that I feel are at least something that I'd be proud of. I tell others that I want Them to shoot whatever they would be proud to harvest, and thatd make me happy too.

Please cite your source.

JTfromwv I have dig deep in my old gray matter.
I'm almost sure it was a study by john ozoga and I can't remember the others involed just off the top of my
But i will dig through my papers when i get home
It may have also been in deer and deer hunting i read everything i could get my hands on

its way more than 10 days, its 3 cycles of 10 days each, with the middle one being the peak.
RR

Where did I ever suggest that "we can stop that gene from spreading by killing that one deer"?
If you wish not to acknowledge the basics of genetics and how they can be managed, then I shall bow out of this discussion with you at this time.

The Outlook For Spike Bucks Is I Will Shoot Them Because They Are Made Out Of Meat !!!

w