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#6119704 - 01/09/18 04:47 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
GROUSEWIT Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/14/13
Posts: 248
Loc: 7mtns of CENTRAL PA
If wolves are not kept in check and protected there will be no need for rifles to hunt deer, elk, etc. Anti gun and anti hunters both will win. How much money will not be coming into fish/game commission then? How many hunters giving it up thereby reducing PR funds to your state. WOLVES WILL SEVERLY IMPACT HUNTER PARTICIPATION.RESIDENT AND NON-RESIDENT!
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#6119721 - 01/09/18 05:09 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Marty Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/13/14
Posts: 10178
Loc: North East Kansas
We should just eliminate them from the continental US....there would still be plenty in Canada.. smile

What wolves?

laugh
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"pressure makes diamonds" George S. Patton

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#6119763 - 01/09/18 05:46 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
snowy Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/26/11
Posts: 4620
Loc: MT
I can't understand WHY DNR's from many different states have this love for the wolf. They are all on the wagon to save the wolf. The politicians make these laws and are afraid for the tree huggers to call them out because they have the money and resources to do that.

It really needs to be open season on wolf like it is for coyotes. You will never kill all of them now or never will. When man never walks on the planet again there still will be coyotes and wolfs.

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#6119774 - 01/09/18 05:57 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Osky Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 5551
Loc: Northern MN
DNRs are just doing their job. Meddling disconnected judges are the problem.
The very upper echelon doesn't manage animals, it manages for politics and population. Too much authority has been stripped from the state agencies, given today's political mess they are probably happy to be clear of it. Nothing seems to gum things up more than the fed and the self serving people in power.

Osky
_________________________
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

www.SureDockusa.com

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#6119779 - 01/09/18 06:03 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Tweed Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 3660
Loc: Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Maybe Don Trump Jr will help get authority back to the states.

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#6119799 - 01/09/18 06:17 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Yes sir]
160user Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 11501
Loc: MN
Originally Posted By: Yes sir
Sounds like the caribou were thriving in the habit they had until the wolves came along


And once the wolves eat all the caribou and the food source is gone they have two options. The wolves can move on to another area and decimate another food source or stay where they are and die of starvation. Save the next prey base and save the wolves from starvation. Lead pills for all of them.n
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#6119838 - 01/09/18 06:56 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
matz Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/09/14
Posts: 16
Loc: n.mn
I don't post much, I prefer to read and learn, but I do have a response to some posters on this thread.

The tired old argument that the caribou are being eaten into extirpation is the white mans fault is a round about statement (moral equivalency)
that has nothing to do with the problem. It is a liberal progressive answer that does nothing but stir up dissent. these type of statements are used in almost any controversy whether political, religious or in this case wildlife to assign guilt, they offer no value to the problem at hand.

Concentrate your efforts on the problem instead of placing blame on past actions no one has control of.

P.S. Canada grows lots of wolves that don't need a green card to get to the U.S.


Edited by matz (01/09/18 07:42 PM)

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#6119865 - 01/09/18 07:18 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: matz]
Yes sir Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/17
Posts: 857
Loc: Marion Kansas
Originally Posted By: matz
I don't post much, I prefer to read and learn, but I do have a response to some posters on this thread.

The tired old argument that the caribou are being eaten into extirpation is the white mans fault is a round about statement (moral equivalency)
that has nothing to do with the problem. It is a liberal progressive answer that does nothing but stir up dissent. these type of statements are used in almost any controversy whether political, religious or in this case wildlife to assign guilt, they offer no value to the problem at hand.

Concentrate your efforts on the problem instead of placing blame on past actions no has control of.

P.S. Canada grows lots of wolves that don't need a green card to get to the U.S.
you should post more often

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#6119867 - 01/09/18 07:19 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: snowy]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 3589
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: snowy
I can't understand WHY DNR's from many different states have this love for the wolf. They are all on the wagon to save the wolf. The politicians make these laws and are afraid for the tree huggers to call them out because they have the money and resources to do that.

It really needs to be open season on wolf like it is for coyotes. You will never kill all of them now or never will. When man never walks on the planet again there still will be coyotes and wolfs.


I believe we did extirpate wolves in much of their historic range. So, apparently we can. frown
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#6119898 - 01/09/18 07:47 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Osky]
lee steinmeyer Online   content
trapper

Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 7615
Loc: Wheaton Ks
Originally Posted By: Osky
DNRs are just doing their job. Meddling disconnected judges are the problem.
The very upper echelon doesn't manage animals, it manages for politics and population. Too much authority has been stripped from the state agencies, given today's political mess they are probably happy to be clear of it. Nothing seems to gum things up more than the fed and the self serving people in power.

Osky
m

The other thing involved with this is the infiltration of the DNR's by bunny huggers. Many positions have been filled by people that don't subscribe to our comsumtive use way of life. They get out of college and their life ambition is to stop the harvest of animals.
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#6119904 - 01/09/18 07:50 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Osky Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/09/13
Posts: 5551
Loc: Northern MN
True Lee, true.

Osky
_________________________
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it"

www.SureDockusa.com

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#6119948 - 01/09/18 08:15 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Line Jumper Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 364
Loc: Northern WI
So a dozen wolves killed 600 caribou in two years? The settlers killed all the big predators off so they could raise livestock and could eat the game themselves.

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#6119954 - 01/09/18 08:21 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
star flakes Offline
trapper

Registered: 02/19/15
Posts: 107
Loc: MN, USA
The facts behind this wolf problem are not being addressed for what they are, and it comes down to gun ownership. Meaning, do wolves call up their Representatives and complain about gestapo wildlife officials or is it hunters, trappers and fishermen who informs the world of mismanagement?
This is not just wolves, this is horned owls, raptors, coyotes, mountain lions, grizzly bears and wolves. When the state has large predators eating everything, then there is not huntable populations of game. The licenses go up, the DNR still gets paid high salaries, but slowly another generation of outdoor's people is depleted. Use large predators to destroy wildlife and the state destroys the outdoor people, and that destroys gun ownership or the Jeffersonian ability to check the police state.

There is deliberate massive mismanagement of wildlife in America for the above reason.

For those who did not think the Bundy issue in Nevada was important, it was, because this as the same groups driving rancher access to grass and water, which these settlers obtained and passed down, to hold that land from other European powers. That was an era of when the government wanted armed citizens to protect this nation.

As a historical perspective, if you would read the books of Teddy Roosevelt and his friend, the father of Yosemite in John Borroughs, the first Naturalist in America, They both advocated killing every large predator in America and leaving only the usable and non dangerous elk, moose, deer, for the benefit of hunters. That is probably the first time you have ever heard that, but it has been censored and you have to read the old books to find out what Conservation was always meant to be.

You will notice that your ability to defend your property, to eliminate threats has all been criminalized in you being the criminal. The old methods of poisoning are now a federal crime and most have been so indoctrinated with propaganda that they willingly give up their rights and defend those who are destroying those rights. The large predators are the ones the police state is protecting, not you, and you are the criminal.
None of this happened by accident. It was by design as everything which is manifesting now, and was warned of by Parker Dozhier from the days he wrote at the Trapper for Tom Krause as editor, in those same groups are the groups now funded to protest against your rights, while a constant influx of armed police are protecting those working against your rights.

Whether it is your grouse eaten by Cooper's hawks protected, your walleyes eaten by cormorants which are protected, the cougars eating your deer which are protected, or the coyotes eating your pets, which are protected cleverly in you can not afford the gas or the license to trap them, you have captured a glimpse of a globalist agenda.

In closing, if you want a historical perspective in this agenda, Al Gore as Vice President told FFA children to give up their farms as America was going to import all of their food from Brazil in the future, and the end game in this, is to remove all landowners in America, place everyone in a city and to make America into a giant vacation spot for the global elite.
Most of you reading this will be the last generation of Americans. You will be replaced by these invaders who are being legalized. Your immigrant relatives were really a form of white slaves, as they were promised land, but were exploited for work to be more manageable than the Indians, now you are less manageable than what you will be replaced by, and what is helping to exterminate you, is all of those large predators.

The DNR is doing their job, and their job is to get you off of the land you think you have right to.

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#6119955 - 01/09/18 08:22 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: GROUSEWIT]
jtg Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 731
Loc: Texas
You got that right, that is the liberal plan. We have been treed by the devils.


Originally Posted By: GROUSEWIT
If wolves are not kept in check and protected there will be no need for rifles to hunt deer, elk, etc. Anti gun and anti hunters both will win. How much money will not be coming into fish/game commission then? How many hunters giving it up thereby reducing PR funds to your state. WOLVES WILL SEVERLY IMPACT HUNTER PARTICIPATION.RESIDENT AND NON-RESIDENT!

Top
#6119969 - 01/09/18 08:26 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: star flakes]
jtg Offline
trapper

Registered: 11/01/14
Posts: 731
Loc: Texas
Amen, they are not managing wildlife, they are managing people with the goal to take away are freedoms. If Clinton would have won, the game would have been over.


Originally Posted By: star flakes
The facts behind this wolf problem are not being addressed for what they are, and it comes down to gun ownership. Meaning, do wolves call up their Representatives and complain about gestapo wildlife officials or is it hunters, trappers and fishermen who informs the world of mismanagement?
This is not just wolves, this is horned owls, raptors, coyotes, mountain lions, grizzly bears and wolves. When the state has large predators eating everything, then there is not huntable populations of game. The licenses go up, the DNR still gets paid high salaries, but slowly another generation of outdoor's people is depleted. Use large predators to destroy wildlife and the state destroys the outdoor people, and that destroys gun ownership or the Jeffersonian ability to check the police state.

There is deliberate massive mismanagement of wildlife in America for the above reason.

For those who did not think the Bundy issue in Nevada was important, it was, because this as the same groups driving rancher access to grass and water, which these settlers obtained and passed down, to hold that land from other European powers. That was an era of when the government wanted armed citizens to protect this nation.

As a historical perspective, if you would read the books of Teddy Roosevelt and his friend, the father of Yosemite in John Borroughs, the first Naturalist in America, They both advocated killing every large predator in America and leaving only the usable and non dangerous elk, moose, deer, for the benefit of hunters. That is probably the first time you have ever heard that, but it has been censored and you have to read the old books to find out what Conservation was always meant to be.

You will notice that your ability to defend your property, to eliminate threats has all been criminalized in you being the criminal. The old methods of poisoning are now a federal crime and most have been so indoctrinated with propaganda that they willingly give up their rights and defend those who are destroying those rights. The large predators are the ones the police state is protecting, not you, and you are the criminal.
None of this happened by accident. It was by design as everything which is manifesting now, and was warned of by Parker Dozhier from the days he wrote at the Trapper for Tom Krause as editor, in those same groups are the groups now funded to protest against your rights, while a constant influx of armed police are protecting those working against your rights.

Whether it is your grouse eaten by Cooper's hawks protected, your walleyes eaten by cormorants which are protected, the cougars eating your deer which are protected, or the coyotes eating your pets, which are protected cleverly in you can not afford the gas or the license to trap them, you have captured a glimpse of a globalist agenda.

In closing, if you want a historical perspective in this agenda, Al Gore as Vice President told FFA children to give up their farms as America was going to import all of their food from Brazil in the future, and the end game in this, is to remove all landowners in America, place everyone in a city and to make America into a giant vacation spot for the global elite.
Most of you reading this will be the last generation of Americans. You will be replaced by these invaders who are being legalized. Your immigrant relatives were really a form of white slaves, as they were promised land, but were exploited for work to be more manageable than the Indians, now you are less manageable than what you will be replaced by, and what is helping to exterminate you, is all of those large predators.

The DNR is doing their job, and their job is to get you off of the land you think you have right to.

Top
#6119983 - 01/09/18 08:36 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Yes sir Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/17
Posts: 857
Loc: Marion Kansas
Star Flakes pretty much summons it up.... The key word is "globalist agenda". Everything the left is doing is for this purpose or I should say everything that the people who are leading the left are doing is for this purpose. I think the Bible speaks of this one world government... Got to have are guns for total control.

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#6120005 - 01/09/18 08:49 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Caribou Offline
trapper

Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 104
Loc: AK, Northwest Arctic Borough
Here in Northwest Alaska, we have the Western Arctic Caribou Herd.(WACH) What Im relating here is my own,local Caribou/Wolf experiance and the whys and hows of decline.
They peaked out 16 years ago at 500,000, today they are at 220,000, but looking over time, its quite natural and expected.
Thankfully its not a ''crash', which has been seen in quite a few Caribou herds around the world in the last century.

The natural ups and down of the Caribou herd numbers, are a common thing to talk about here, many an old man has related that Caribou numbers change often,and Wolves numbers follow the peaks and lows of the Caribou, which makes sense.
Neither Wolves nor Caribou in Alaska have been exterminated, and the natural cycle continues. Often, Caribou migrate right into other herds and join them.

The biologists explain and I agree (my own observations) that mid winter rains ice the Caribou from their forage, and with the loss of habitable grounds, the young one's starve, and the Caribou move on. Wolves love this, and do what Wolves and every other living organism does; eat, eat, eat.....and then reproduce..
When a whole herd is weak and slowed, seeking food, they will be picked off until the Wolves dont have a easy supply of food and they too decline. Wolves are the final solution to a problem that was created by weather.

No different than Rabbits and Lynx, etc.
Here in NW Alaska,the Sheep populations have taken a hit as well, from the midwinter rain.


After a hard mid January rain and a return to -0-f , in couple days you find the dying calves strewn all over the place .....in the hundreds. The adults get skinny, and dont stop untill they find forage.Sometimes a whole herd shifts 60-75 mile.

We will see uncountable 1/2 eaten and partially eaten carcasses, but most go untouched....
Caribou , like their predators are a 'renewable resource', with populations a dynamic with the weather, available feed and predators. They will rise in numbers again, and migrate in and out of places, and do the things Caribou do best- Travel.

Look at the good parts; Plenty of Wolfing to be done laugh


Edited by Caribou (01/09/18 09:15 PM)
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#6120016 - 01/09/18 09:00 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Tweed]
Yes sir Offline
trapper

Registered: 01/25/17
Posts: 857
Loc: Marion Kansas
Do the wolves up there not get to a high enough population that they can directly reduce the numbers of a healthy caribou herd?

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#6120036 - 01/09/18 09:17 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Yes sir]
Dirt Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/01/10
Posts: 3589
Loc: Armpit, ak
Originally Posted By: Yes sir
Do the wolves up there not get to a high enough population that they can directly reduce the numbers of a healthy caribou herd?


In parts of Alaska, yes.
_________________________
Who is John Galt?

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#6120055 - 01/09/18 09:32 PM Re: Wolves Wiping Out Caribou [Re: Dirty D]
Pawnee Offline
trapper

Registered: 12/12/17
Posts: 266
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Dirty D
wolves are just finishing what man started.
wolves and these herds of caribou existed for hundred, probably thousands of years together before man arrived from Europe.
Man has eliminated much of the habitat that these herds occupied. This crashed the populations.
Crashed to the point that predators that they have lived with for centuries now will finish what man started.

Blame man, not the wolves. If your concerned about the caribou lets remove all human habitation from their previous range and restore the area to what it was 250 years ago.

Blaming wolves on the extinction of these caribou is like blaming the guy who shot the last couple of passenger pigeons for causing the birds to go extinct. He may have killed the last of them but if other men had not eliminated the other billions of them then the killing of those few would of made no difference.

Seminar poster.... If you listen to Rush you’ll know what I mean!!

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