I am what is called a "weekend warrior" in a Pharmaceutical Manufacturing Plant. So, I work 7pm-7am Friday, Saturday, and Sunday nights, and I have the rest of the week off. We work 36 hours and get paid for 40, and I have the option to work overtime during the week if I choose to, and have one day every week where my overtime is double time. My salary on 36 hours a week is about $70k. If I work the overtime that they offer me, I can double that. I have a 401k, and I pay about $75/month for my family health insurance. My wife, kids, and my parents also get free prescriptions for life.

Now, that being said, I don't work very much overtime in there. My father was a contractor by trade, and I started going to work with him when I was 4. I spent my entire life learning the construction trade, and I work for myself during the week instead of working overtime. During hunting season and trapping season, I don't look for work. I work my 3 days a week and I hunt and trap the rest of the week. I make just as much money doing construction as I do working in the plant, but the plant is my retirement and insurance. I'm not saying this to try to sound like I have a lot of money by any means because my wife does not work, and I have 2 kids, one of which is special needs. Everybody has a right to their own opinion, and I don't hold that opinion against anybody. If it was not for the teachers my son has had in school, he wouldn't have progressed nearly as well as he did. When budgets start getting cut in the school system, it is always the special needs programs that get cut first. When it comes to MY decision, I am going to make it with MY kids best interest in mind. I pay tons of state taxes already, but I will never complain about paying more to benefit my kids and the people that influence them every day. I am glad they got what they wanted, and I will gladly pay whatever I need to pay. It is money way better spent than giving our legislators a raise every single year, but nobody ever complains about the extra tax they pay for that raise every year because the legislators vote for that raise themselves, they don't have to go on strike to get it.

Just whip 'em, and whip 'em good!

Watched him whip whip, watch him nay nay.

Ah, one of our finer Trapperman teacher haters finally emerges from the dismal swamp and regurgitates the anti-teacher mantra.

We've been down this road before here on T-man, several times. Fellow trappers like RTS artfully summarize their points with the swill posted above. And by God teachers are all overpaid.

I've wasted my time on this subject here before, hence the "whip 'em, just whip 'em good."

But for old times' sake, I'll share a little bit again.

Went to college on the GI Bill from '75-'79. Graduated with a bachelor's degree in biology from UW-La Crosse, interned in Baraboo that spring semester, liked what I was doing, supervising teacher's father passed away in MN, and Benny took over the farm. I was willing to coach track and football and started fulltime teaching biology that next fall. Base salary was $9850, and if I recall correctly I was rewarded 4% of the base for each of the coaching duties.

I didn't ask what I'd be making, didn't want to know. Just wanted to teach biology. So my wife, daughter and I lived in a trailer out in the country and got along on that $9850.

I do recall a day when I was sitting in the teacher's lounge grading papers and I innocently asked some of the older teachers there if they thought we'd get a raise the next year. That was met with much laughter and negative comments on the members of the school board. But I vividly remember an elderly English teacher taking me aside towards the end of that period and telling me this . . . "Mike, don't worry about your salary. You'll make enough to live on, and if you enjoy teaching, you'll have a wonderful career for thirty-some years. And when it comes time to retire, you'll have a good health insurance package and pension, and people will appreciate what you've done all these years."

So when we got bumped to $10,500 the next year, I was ecstatic to say the least. So I went about business for the next thirty years and retired in 2010.

It was a wonderful career for thirty-one years . . . for teachers in my age group anyway. We got the health insurance bridge to 65, got the pension, and for the most part people appreciated what we had done with their children. The health insurance bridge is gone for many teachers here in WI now, the pension is solid, and do most people appreciate what teachers do with their children today? Good question.

I do know this: teacher turnover, especially in the younger generation, is accelerating. Teaching here in Wisconsin has become a "stepping stone" job. Can't find the job you're looking for? Get a teaching degree and "do that" for a couple of years until something turns up. Don't believe it? Research for yourself. I'd post links but I'd be accused of posting links to fake news and I've had a belly full of that interpretation.

For 31 years I taught in the "same" classroom, though a new lab was built on the other side of the building during my time. The fella I replaced, Benny, was there for only 19 years, and retired only because his father passed and the family farm issue came up. The fella he replaced was there for at least 35 years from what I remember. Three teachers over the course of 85 years.

Five years after I retired in 2010 my old classroom saw three different teachers. I haven't kept in contact with the chemistry teacher across the hall to see if the number has changed, but he's retiring soon and I'll find out at his get together.

These statistics aren't changing much. In the dead of winter I sub up and down the river in the small schools that line the Lower Wisconsin River valley. Same is true here, and as pointed out in a previous post, the number of qualified candidates to teach certain subject areas is getting smaller annually. With our governor's blessing, schools are now hiring teachers away from other schools, giving them pay raises and benefits to encourage them to "jump ship." This is leaving the smaller, less financed schools without qualified staff to do the job. What remains to do the job? As parents, you don't want to know, believe me.

It wasn't until I became a member of this trapping forum that I discovered there was true hatred for teachers. Oh, I knew there was some dislike out there, axes to grind, but never the deep, down hatred expressed by some of our more distinguished members here. It used to rile me up reading how all teachers are . . how did Rat Trapper Sr. put it? They're all a bunch of liberals, they preach DNC talking points, and they deserve a pay cut not a raise.

Fellas like RTS probably haven't been in a classroom since they were in high school. They wouldn't know what an IEP was if it bit 'em in the arse. More than likely, they envision what goes on inside the building similar to what was happening during their time. In other words, they haven't a clue as to what's changed.

Hang in there good teachers. Focus on why you got into teaching in the first place. Don't dwell too long on the ramblings of RTS and his ilk. They'll always be out there, hating you for your chosen occupation and the money/benefits you're making at the public's expense. And you'll have to deal with their kids, who come to school already brainwashed that you're not worth listening to in the first place. Seat them in the front row, maybe they'll learn something!

Now where was I . . . oh yea!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_QLzthSkfM

"Just whip 'em, and whip 'em good!"

How much do they get paid now? How much education do they need to be a teacher. In Michigan the school year is 180 days, if the work 8 hours a day that is 1440 hours. Do they have insurance? How many sick days etc. Most will agree some teachers are over paid sum under. More money does not make better teachers.JMO

You can argue if the salaries are too high or low and for 180 days of teaching contract that is not a justifiable job etc. etc. I don't need to go into the 40 or so other days that work needs be done as that will not be believed. Why do teachers and other professions that may feel are not really work get paid what they do it is simple there would be far, far less applicants that meet the qualifications if they did not offer what they currently offer. Capitalism does work and it works many times in ways many don't prefer or like. The issue that some of you may not like is that if I can handle the students, administration and politics for 2-5 years I create a great resume to move forward with and compete with all others for better jobs including many that post on here. HR departments value greatly the skill sets that many teachers have and they are willing to hire and pay to get those skill sets.

Bryce

A lot has been covered concerning your questions already if you have time to read the whole post. As for "More money does not make better teachers.JMO" What you're failing to see is, more money keeps better teachers, and more money encourages people who would be better teachers to enter the profession. Fact is there are a lot of folks who would be excellent teachers but can not afford to do the job when they can work 1/2 as hard for twice the money with the same level or less education elsewhere.

I agree bblwi and ADC. It's simple capitalism. I live in a small community in northern MN and we are seeing exactly as you are saying. Higher teacher wages don't directly make a teacher better or worse but if the education system wants to attract and retain qualified teachers, they need to compensate them accordingly.

There is a pharmaceutical manufacturer in our town that pays very, very well. A generic bachelors degree will pay as much to a worker on their first contract at this manufacturer as our teachers pay scale pays with a masters degree, plus 30 credits, after 30 years with the district. Needless to say our district has lost a number of qualified teachers that have left the district to work at the pharmaceutical manufacturer. That coupled with the fact that outstate MN districts have been struggling to attract qualified teachers and public school administrators around here anyways have really started feeling the pinch.

Muskrat, couldn't have said it better. You've been there. For the naysayers, ignorance is bliss I guess.

Muskrat - Excellent post, one of the few on this topic actually worth reading. A person shouldn't judge teachers if you haven't been in their shoes.
There is no such thing as an 8hr day if you are an educator , and the summer break isn't as long as students. Nine years my wife was a teacher and I rarely got to spend anytime with her. If she wasn't at the school, home time was grading papers, lesson plans or inputting grades.

News said the WV strike is over.
Can we roast golfers tomorrow?

For anyone misinterpreting what I have said in my other posts on this thread, I am sorry if you may have thought that I have a dislike or hatred of teachers, that is far from the case. I grew up respecting most if not all of my teachers a great deal, I can only remember one teacher that I respected but more so felt sorry for. I went to a private Christian school for a few years and then back into the Public school system until I graduated in 1989, things were not easy for a teacher back then and I can only imagine how bad they can be in today's classrooms (I am guessing the higher the grade the worse it has gotten).

My two children are not old enough to go to the public school system yet, but they will be taught to respect and listen to their teachers and if I have any concerns about anything they are teaching my children you can bet that I will take it up directly with that teacher in a respectful and dignified way. No good can come from openly disparaging a teacher in front of anyone (or in private) when trying to resolve any issues within the classroom, one of my friends has no problems yelling at and berating his kids' teachers right in front of anyone including the kids and I have told him that is wrong and sets a bad example. I can't honestly say how I would handle dealing with a truly "bad" teacher and I hope I never have to.

My comments were subject only to MY district with the information I have. Every district is different as atrapper points out.

Muskrat: I am glad you had a rewarding career as a biology teacher and it sounds like you got sage advise from that English teacher and it must have paid off.

I think we should roast pharmaceutical workers. We all know how cheap health care is.

Teacher unions keep bad teachers teaching and stifle wages of good teachers. I think our kids would be much better off if they got rid of the union and went to a merit based system. Produce results, or your fired!

Birch Tree, no hard feeling on this end. It's good for everyone to hear different perspectives. I respect your opinion whether I agree with it or not. Debating and offering opinions and perspectives civilly is what creates change for the better. I appreciate hearing what people think about the profession I'm in, how it could improve and ideas people have to make positive change.

I knew that. That's why I bothered to reply to try help you better understand why more money can actually lead to better teachers. Sorry it sounded like I was scolding you, that wasn't my intention.



Yes please. No need to wait til tomorrow.

Get rid of the unions and everyone will be working for peanuts. Like it or not, they do set a standard.

Sounds like communism.

Unions are fine UNTILL they figured out that tenure racket. I was just ridiculous watching the local school board get pushed around by unions and the "arbitration" scam. You could not get rid of a teacher short of murder, That is what people hated, not the teachers.