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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209678
04/06/18 09:25 AM
04/06/18 09:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,923
Central, SD
Law Dog
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 34,923
Central, SD
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.223 with the right bullet make up and stay away from the shoulder shoot behind it. A lot of guys here load up their rounds then shoot the shoulder plate causing the bullet to do way more damage then needed. I bought a pile of 45 gr .223 HP when cheaper then dirt was just that and they work the best for me, just shoot and put up very little damage.
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209685
04/06/18 09:29 AM
04/06/18 09:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1
"color blind Kraut"
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"color blind Kraut"
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
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Out of those choices, the hornet. But the cheap shooting goes a little out the window with that one. the 22mag is marginal at best of 150 yard dogs and the 223 and 243 will turn a fox inside out in 150 yards or less.
Let's go Brandon
"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209780
04/06/18 11:01 AM
04/06/18 11:01 AM
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Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 302
Wyoming
Hobbs
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 302
Wyoming
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For inexpensive and versatile I would recommend the .223, However, don't over look to .243 if you reload. You can get a nice FMJ from sierra and increase your range considerably when comparted to the .223. I have shot several prairie dogs at the 300+ range, never shot a coyote with it... but that isn't the guns fault, I get a little excited sometimes haha. My buddie took a coyote at 226 yds with my Howa .243 ranchland carbine, barely any hole at all.
It's a trappers life for me
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209836
04/06/18 12:49 PM
04/06/18 12:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
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222 lol my favorite for fox and yotes................
BUT I got a sweet 22 mag. 30 gr hornady does a number on all species without blowing a hole in them. Shoot yotes like you would a deer. Boiler room and 150 yrds. Shoot for the head or neck and your good out to 200............ optics optics optics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by jbyrd63; 04/06/18 12:52 PM.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209839
04/06/18 12:58 PM
04/06/18 12:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,593
sometimes PA sometimes ME
ebsurveyor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,593
sometimes PA sometimes ME
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With a Hornet in the ribs a coyote will run some, but not much fur damage. A fox in the shoulder with a hornet is not good for the fur. I had a 17/223 that was good but a PIA to load for.
Last edited by ebsurveyor; 04/06/18 12:59 PM.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: jbyrd63]
#6209855
04/06/18 01:14 PM
04/06/18 01:14 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
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Posts: 1,306
Maine
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222 lol my favorite for fox and yotes................
BUT I got a sweet 22 mag. 30 gr hornady does a number on all species without blowing a hole in them. Shoot yotes like you would a deer. Boiler room and 150 yrds. Shoot for the head or neck and your good out to 200............ optics optics optics !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't make me second guess now! Lol =)
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209874
04/06/18 01:34 PM
04/06/18 01:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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Well that pretty much answer that I'd say. Anyone for any opinions on the Savage axis with the 1:9 twist rate? 1:9 is decent for a good range of bullets in particular very common 55gr if you can spend a little more now for an axis II or step up to a 10 110 , 11 , 111 , 16 or walking varmantier you will have more gun the axis stock has a fair amount of flex to it and can push on the barrel also the accu-triger is nice the basic axis trigger left some to be desired. an after market trigger to make a low dollar axis better are 110 dollars so you can see where upgrading after could cost much more than spending more now. the other thing is I think the axis uses the same stock ,and action for short and long action , meaning a longer than needed bolt movment at least handle the Savage 25 walking varminteer before you buy you might find the nicer stock , better trigger , shorter bolt movement and weight very handy
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209942
04/06/18 02:40 PM
04/06/18 02:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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can you reliably hit a coyote at 200 yards with it even with the factory stock and trigger sure , you will find guys posting videos where they shoot farther than that. my point is if your spending 300-350 that you can get a bunch of nice features for 75-100 dollars more and have more resale value later should you want to upgrade further an axis for 300 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_62_974/products_id/70942an axis II XP with scope and better trigger for 390 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_62_974/products_id/53046/Savage+AXIS+II+XP+223+REM+BUSHNELL+%09 there are other makes also but sometimes your better spending a bit more upfront you have more in the end.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6209981
04/06/18 03:06 PM
04/06/18 03:06 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,593
sometimes PA sometimes ME
ebsurveyor
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 2,593
sometimes PA sometimes ME
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Don't know if you've looked at the price on the mini lately but they are like a $900 gun now. I should have bought one years ago when you could get them at Walmart for $600. Let's see, $900 divided by $50 coyotes = 18 coyotes to break even. Guess I'll forget about it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: ebsurveyor]
#6210004
04/06/18 03:29 PM
04/06/18 03:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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Don't know if you've looked at the price on the mini lately but they are like a $900 gun now. I should have bought one years ago when you could get them at Walmart for $600. Let's see, $900 divided by $50 coyotes = 18 coyotes to break even. Guess I'll forget about it. you can build a AR that will shoot as good or better than the $900 mini-14 for $500 and save you 8 yotes to break even
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6210115
04/06/18 05:23 PM
04/06/18 05:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
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Well that pretty much answer that I'd say. Anyone for any opinions on the Savage axis with the 1:9 twist rate? Out of the box the most accurate rifle you can buy for the money....
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#6210118
04/06/18 05:25 PM
04/06/18 05:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
jbyrd63
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,155
Ky
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can you reliably hit a coyote at 200 yards with it even with the factory stock and trigger sure , you will find guys posting videos where they shoot farther than that. my point is if your spending 300-350 that you can get a bunch of nice features for 75-100 dollars more and have more resale value later should you want to upgrade further an axis for 300 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_62_974/products_id/70942an axis II XP with scope and better trigger for 390 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_62_974/products_id/53046/Savage+AXIS+II+XP+223+REM+BUSHNELL+%09 there are other makes also but sometimes your better spending a bit more upfront you have more in the end. OK READ HIS POST OUT TO 150 yards. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: jbyrd63]
#6210147
04/06/18 06:18 PM
04/06/18 06:18 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
traprjohn
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,165
Central NC
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.222 Rem, lol my favorite for fox and yotes................ Mine too, since 1976. And easy to download to 218 Bee and 22 Hornet ballistics. I love the .218 Bee out to 150 yds!..45 grainers go into the boiler room and don't come out.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: jbyrd63]
#6210399
04/06/18 11:02 PM
04/06/18 11:02 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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can you reliably hit a coyote at 200 yards with it even with the factory stock and trigger sure , you will find guys posting videos where they shoot farther than that. my point is if your spending 300-350 that you can get a bunch of nice features for 75-100 dollars more and have more resale value later should you want to upgrade further an axis for 300 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_62_974/products_id/70942an axis II XP with scope and better trigger for 390 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_36_62_974/products_id/53046/Savage+AXIS+II+XP+223+REM+BUSHNELL+%09 there are other makes also but sometimes your better spending a bit more upfront you have more in the end. OK READ HIS POST OUT TO 150 yards. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I did , then he said Thanks Pete,
Good info on the twist rate. That sounds about like the reviews I read with the stock and the trigger. Budget is a huge issue for this one. Do you think they are passable for a 200 yard gun? If I have to I can build a new stock in the shop. so I answered the question what did I say that was untrue ?
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: la4wd54]
#6211046
04/07/18 04:46 PM
04/07/18 04:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 946
Missouri, USA
Pofarmer10
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 946
Missouri, USA
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.243 cal. Hornady Superformance Varmint 58 gr vmax here. Muzzle velocity is 3925 fps and it drops 29.6 inches an 500 yards. Or thats what the box says anyway. Its impressive.
“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: TraderVic]
#6211132
04/07/18 06:30 PM
04/07/18 06:30 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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223......consider the CZ American.......what an accurate rifle !!! that is a beautiful gun , they even make it with a 1:9 twist , a Mini Mauser action take home price is going to be close to 650 dollars  anither nice option is the Howa Mini in 223 https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_2108/products_id/2393/HOWA+HMP60202%2B+MINI+COMBO+223+BLK this is a combo that would be about 550 take home but it would have a scope ready to check the screws for tight and sight in and go hunting. here is a nice option a bit closer to his budget https://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/2084_2108/products_id/4411/Savage+AXIS+II+XP+223+Hardwood+Weaver+22in+4Rd be about 450 take home price. but would also have a scope , check for tight and go sight in and go hunting , an axis II it has the better trigger and the hardwood it has a better stock
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 04/07/18 06:36 PM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Canvasback2]
#6211311
04/07/18 09:46 PM
04/07/18 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1
"color blind Kraut"
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"color blind Kraut"
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
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Nobody mentioned the .220 Swift .. Cheap to feed was one of the criteria so the swift, 22-250 and the likes are out of the running i guess. Having said that, my 22-250 made a mess out of foxes that were well beyond what one could fix with a needle and thread
Let's go Brandon
"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6211411
04/07/18 11:26 PM
04/07/18 11:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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I like the hardwood stock and trigger on the II. Wish I could find one without a scope. I've already got some decent glass to put on it. I don't see any without but you can always pull it off put your glass on and ebay the one that came with the rifle to recover some cash.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Canvasback2]
#6211466
04/08/18 12:45 AM
04/08/18 12:45 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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220 Swift in the Hornady V Max is around $25 a box of 20.
.223 in the same Hornady ammo , is around $17 a box.
Yes, it's $8 more per box, but I guess it all depends on how many Bobcat, Fox and Coyote he expects to get in a Season.
The .220 Swift is a great caliber for Coyote . ultramax re-manufactured 21.99 at cabelas for 50 rounds of soft point 55gr it also sounds like he likes to shoot a bunch for fun
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6211485
04/08/18 01:08 AM
04/08/18 01:08 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,269
West Central Illinois
il.trapper
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,269
West Central Illinois
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Anyone have the Thompson Center Compass? That is what I am shooting at present. I had a 22-250 in the Axis, I prefer the TC hands down. Adj. trigger, decent enough stock, and with the 1-10 twist it shoots a few different weights/loads really well. 204 caliber BTW.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6211509
04/08/18 05:06 AM
04/08/18 05:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 208
SW Iowa
iowayote
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 208
SW Iowa
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It all depends on how you plan to use it. If you plan on calling them in, most any small centerfire will do fine. If im chasing them, i ramp it up to heavier bullets. Coyotes can take alot of damage and keep on trucking. Sure, ive killed em with the smaller calibers while chasing but, you gotta put it in a vital area.
Toughest critters on the planet.
I will gladly feast on those who would subdue me.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Canvasback2]
#6211543
04/08/18 07:19 AM
04/08/18 07:19 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
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Maine
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220 Swift in the Hornady V Max is around $25 a box of 20.
.223 in the same Hornady ammo , is around $17 a box.
Yes, it's $8 more per box, but I guess it all depends on how many Bobcat, Fox and Coyote he expects to get in a Season.
The .220 Swift is a great caliber for Coyote . This is going to be my new plinking gun too. I've never predator hunted before so I see your point about the hunting ammo but I though it would be fun to run through some cheap stuff now and again at the range.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: iowayote]
#6211544
04/08/18 07:20 AM
04/08/18 07:20 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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Maine
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It all depends on how you plan to use it. If you plan on calling them in, most any small centerfire will do fine. If im chasing them, i ramp it up to heavier bullets. Coyotes can take alot of damage and keep on trucking. Sure, ive killed em with the smaller calibers while chasing but, you gotta put it in a vital area.
Toughest critters on the planet. It's a lot of very thick cover where I live so i think I'll be calling them in.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: il.trapper]
#6211545
04/08/18 07:21 AM
04/08/18 07:21 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
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Maine
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Anyone have the Thompson Center Compass? That is what I am shooting at present. I had a 22-250 in the Axis, I prefer the TC hands down. Adj. trigger, decent enough stock, and with the 1-10 twist it shoots a few different weights/loads really well. 204 caliber BTW. Thanks! Think I'll make an offer on it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6211580
04/08/18 08:27 AM
04/08/18 08:27 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,324
Northern MN
Osky
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,324
Northern MN
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Johnny... Have you looks at the .17 super magnum? Very impressive ballistics, rimfire, easy on the pocket to shoot, and will easily handle coyotes out to 250 yards. Great plinking caliber as well.
Osky
"A womans heart is the hardest rock the Almighty has put on this earth, and I can find no sign on it" Jabless in Minnesota www.SureDockusa.com
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6216230
04/13/18 09:43 AM
04/13/18 09:43 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
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Maine
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Cabela's has the 700 adl varmint on sale for $425 and Remington has $100 mail in rebate the the rifle would be $325. Not a fan of the integrated mag but for that price it seems pretty good. 1:12 twist rate is gonna make a light bullet only? Anyone do the rebate? How long did it take to get your money back? https://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting...65.uts?slotId=1
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6216241
04/13/18 10:01 AM
04/13/18 10:01 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,971
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,971
Peoria County Illinois
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Been loading for .22 for about 30 years- that gets my vote for under 150yds. Cheap to reload for too - it holds about 10 grains of powder for most loads. I shoot a Savage 23D - super accurate. The hornet is light and not as loud as the .223.
I heard Remington was having trouble- might want to check it out
Just passin through
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6216257
04/13/18 10:17 AM
04/13/18 10:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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generally about 60gr is the upper limit for a 1:12 twist but that is not a bad thing.
you were not looking for extreme range and a 40 , 45 , 50 , 52, and 55 will do very well with the 200 yards you though might be your longest shot
it will depend some on the ammo but with most of those you can probably sight in 1 inch high at 100 yards and spot on at 200 so that you could reasonably hit a softball size target just aiming at the middle from 25 to 225 yards.
it has been common for varmint hunting to use the lighter end of the .224 bullet selection to give very flat trajectory so it is just aim and squeeze no worry about hold overs on anything within a reasonable range of 250 yards or so
an up side for the 700rem is that everyone makes parts for the 700 , triggers , stocks , bottom metal , scope bases so if you get an itch to change it you can.
Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 04/13/18 10:20 AM.
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Larry Baer]
#6216271
04/13/18 10:27 AM
04/13/18 10:27 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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Maine
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Been loading for .22 for about 30 years- that gets my vote for under 150yds. Cheap to reload for too - it holds about 10 grains of powder for most loads. I shoot a Savage 23D - super accurate. The hornet is light and not as loud as the .223.
I heard Remington was having trouble- might want to check it out Bankruptcy right? I doubt the model 700 is going anywhere though. I never rely on warranty anyway. Everything I have always waits until it's already run out to break.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE]
#6216272
04/13/18 10:29 AM
04/13/18 10:29 AM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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OP
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Maine
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generally about 60gr is the upper limit for a 1:12 twist but that is not a bad thing.
you were not looking for extreme range and a 40 , 45 , 50 , 52, and 55 will do very well with the 200 yards you though might be your longest shot
it will depend some on the ammo but with most of those you can probably sight in 1 inch high at 100 yards and spot on at 200 so that you could reasonably hit a softball size target just aiming at the middle from 25 to 225 yards.
it has been common for varmint hunting to use the lighter end of the .224 bullet selection to give very flat trajectory so it is just aim and squeeze no worry about hold overs on anything within a reasonable range of 250 yards or so
an up side for the 700rem is that everyone makes parts for the 700 , triggers , stocks , bottom metal , scope bases so if you get an itch to change it you can. Sound like what I'm looking for. Hopefully I can check them out this weekend. Looks like the rebate ends May 1st.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6216279
04/13/18 10:33 AM
04/13/18 10:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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I would lean towards a light gun for coyote hunting , heavy barrels are nice for prolonged shooting , but coyote hunting to 200 yards is neither an extreme shot nor prolonged shooting.
an 11 pound rifle gets to feeling so much heavier when you carry it a mile
remember you still have to add the optic to the weight of the gun
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6218439
04/15/18 06:46 PM
04/15/18 06:46 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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OP
trapper
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Maine
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Pete, am I correct in my research here? If I cut the 26" barrel down to 20" I'll only loose about 100 fps in most 223? Seems like a no brainer.
Last edited by Jonnytrapper; 04/15/18 06:47 PM.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6218454
04/15/18 07:15 PM
04/15/18 07:15 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,306
Maine
Jonnytrapper
OP
trapper
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trapper
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Maine
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I'm thinking of getting the varmint and wacking 6" of barrel off. The price is cheaper and I like the stock better.
Last edited by Jonnytrapper; 04/15/18 07:17 PM.
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6218701
04/15/18 10:43 PM
04/15/18 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
Scuba1
"color blind Kraut"
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"color blind Kraut"
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,150
Tennessee
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Go for it and then work on it from there on
Let's go Brandon
"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
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Re: Help me choose predator caliber
[Re: Jonnytrapper]
#6218702
04/15/18 10:43 PM
04/15/18 10:43 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
GREENCOUNTYPETE
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 18,621
Green County Wisconsin
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go for it , shoot if first before you cut it , you never know you may decide not to
America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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