But what you have there is not morality, it's just rules. Just because something helps the group or you doesn't make it good and just because it hurts society doesn't make it evil.
People by and large know what is right and what is wrong. But their inclination towards sin is also there from the start. So, you have this war going on in the human soul and everyone sins to one degree or another. Which is Biblical and observable.
But, if it's just what is good for society, who are we to say for example that a fifty year old Muslim male should not marry a five year old girl? It's part of their society, it's good as far as we know. But instead, we find the idea revolting and sick. Why?

DC,
I'm a Christian, and I agree with everything you posted above.

People with either no real belief, week faith, or beliefs they've adopted from their family often exhibit those characteristics you've identified.
It always makes me a little curious when I hear "Christians" express anger like you describe. God does not need me to defend Him. The big difference between the God I worship and the god muslims worship (don't let anyone tell you they are the same god, they're not) is that the muslim god is apparently weak, and requires his followers to do his fighting.

If I were to feel slighted or offended by other people's disbelief in my faith, that would say there is something wrong with me, imo.

Regarding your last paragraph; a simple facade of belief in the hope it will provide some sort of fire insurance would be laughable if it weren't so sad.

I find it curious that there is a lengthy list of harmless words that someone has judged to be "naughty" that are banned from the forum, but
Anti's hateful and ignorant racism is apparently OK.

Jarhead

Careful, Larry. You'll be accused of "playing the race card."

Jim

A moral code is a set of rules. That's what we (most of us) learn from our parents and those around us. Part of our socialization and cultural upbringing.

Why do we think the fifty-year-old Muslim male in your example is doing evil by marrying a thirteen-year-old, but he does not? It's because of a different cultural moral code.

If the moral code is instilled by a Creator, then why doesn't everyone everywhere have the same one?

Jim

Has the popcorn evolved yet is what I want to know I think this will settle the debate once and for all.

You are making my point for me. In your system of thinking, there is no such thing as a moral code, only different rules for different cultures. Therefore, anything can be justified and nothing can truly be said to be good or evil. It's all relative, all just each persons opinion. Everyone becomes a little god unto themselves. Which is why we need teaching like the ten commandments and the sermon on the mount to understand what God considers moral behavior and what isn't.

You didn't answer my question, in the last line you quote above. You don't explain why a Creator would instill different moral codes in different cultures.

I have a moral code, but it was installed by my parents, not God. I am, after all, an agnostic.

Jim

A moral code can be given from a Creator but that doesn't mean it's installed in our DNA. If it was Moses wouldn't of had to put them on stone.

I'm a Christian, however, I don't believe that God has instilled a universal moral code in people. That's why we need parents to instill their kids with a moral code and values. It's obvious what happens when that doesn't happen; kids turn into self-centered animals. It's happening all around us. If God instilled us as infants with a moral code, kids could raise themselves more-or-less, and turn out just fine. It just doesn't happen that way.

People (everyone) is born with a self-centered (sin) nature; it is not natural to be "good". That's what the bible teaches anyway.

If God is good and created man in his image, isn't that statement a paradox?

^^^^^
Originally good? yes; but he also create us with a freewill, we decided we know better how to do things, that's when things went downhill. That's the problem with freewill. But that's a whole different argument than creation.

To me its real simple. We humans have questions we don't have answers to. We have a propensity to create answers because we can't stand not knowing. Its why we know what atoms are and how many planets orbit our star. Insatiable curiosity. When our curiosity leads us to a realm without answers we convince ourselves that A means R and so Q must be the why. Without any evidence at all.

As at birth?
\
ahh, but free will only allows one to chose, it does not necessitate knowledge of what is chosen.
//
And the whole moral argument is irrelevant to creation vs evolution/nothingness.
"Moral philosophy includes moral ontology, which is the origin of morals; and moral epistemology, which is the knowledge of morals"-- two more directions to take, if the discussion is to be about mores rather than origins.

Yes, we created answers to explain atoms if atoms actually exist. We also created answers to what stars are. Humans are very creative. Is that because we are created in the image of a creator? Or because we exist only in the voids of our nothingness? Was it holography?

I already explained earlier that while man has a basic sense of right and wrong, it has been corrupted by sin. It's not that we don't know, it's that we have a terrible capacity for self deception due to Adam's falling into Satan's trap. We allow ourselves to be deceived by poor teaching by parents or simply our selfish desires. Pride being the root of most sin, we tend to do what we think will bring us the most pleasure, not realizing that the best way to receive blessings is to give them.
It's not that the Creator is giving different moral codes to different cultures, it's that most cultures do not embrace Jesus' teachings. Our free will gets us in trouble more often than not, because we use it wrong.

…6Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7"If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it."

Our basic instinct is self preservation. Jesus turns all that upside down. Read Luke 6..

27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

.counter cultural? You bet!

Man was created good with the capacity for intimate communication with God, but also given free choices. He chose badly, as we all do. We still bare the image of God, under all our crud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeOyFxjkqKY

PA why not just say you don't know why your God instills different morality in different cultures? If your god was the source of morality what difference would it make if they had heard of Jesus? They would still gravitate to the same morality.

Isn't it clear from observation that mankind tends to gravitate toward immorality?

^^^^^^^^^
I guess we're getting off the creation/evolution debate a little.

But the question you raise, "Isn't it clear from observation that mankind tends to gravitate toward immorality?" brings up a big question that divides people on both philosophical, political and religious issues.

1) The orthodox Judaeo-Christian belief that man is born with a sinful nature and is inherently bad/evil/corrupt/selfish etc.
OR
2) The humanist view that man is born basically good.

In broad generalities, conservatives hold to the first position (both politically and religiously) and liberals tend to hold to the second point of view.

As much as the humanist view sounds more pleasant and positive, when their principles and beliefs are put into action the results are generally pretty terrifying.