On my families property below my bowstand there is a small pond (about 50yds by 100yds) it used to be bigger but muskrats have lowered the pond by about 4 feet by digging at the dike. The bottom is mostly mud and used to be great fishing but now all the fish are dtunted and theres not much left. We want to return it to its former glory. What can we do to restore this pond.

Are you a trapper? Must not be if there are rats.

Ive trapped them all out.

Ok, Had me thinkin you couldn't trap. In that case I don't know. LOL

is it silted in too or just lowered by the holes in the dam

It would be best to break the dam . Clean it out fix the dam back and restock. I done this to a pond on my place and the fish are growing well. I went and caught some fish and put in it a few at a time. I put a lot of what I call bait fish a year before I put bigger fish in.

Seeing you are from Wisconsin I will try to help with what I know. First thing to do is to contact your county planning and zoning, conservation office or whatever they call it in Lincoln County. Folks can come out and see you have an existing pond and want to restore it. They will help you with any permitting process, meet with the DNR etc. Good luck, it can be a pain in the az but not so much pain as in you do not get the proper permits.Be upfront with the powers that be and seeing that you have an existing pond they should help you with the knowledge and advice to make the improvements.

Zim

Seems like a couple beaver would fix it up for you. Has the habitat been degraded/altered so that beaver no longer can survive in the pond?

Excavator and dozer was $5000, including two men.
Plumbing and grass seed was $550, shopped and hauled by me.
I finished the surrounding surface with tractor and harrow.

if one man on a dozer cant cut a dam push the silt out and rebuild the dam right without the help of a excavator you need to find a different dozer guy .

Personally I would keep the dozer out of the bottom and use an excavator with a smooth bucket.

minnows,chubs,and more minnows before fish.

Did I hear you say permits and approval by the DNR?Whats with this, you own your property and you still need approval to do stuff on it?
I keep complaining about Ohio but we haven't had any issues with any part of state or EPA,DNR. good thing we have 6 ponds on the property in various states.
Best bet is to as others have stated above, bust the levey ,doze all the silt and get a few more foot depth,and start over. it will be the best investment and have a great pond again.

Yes, I said permits. You cannot just dig a pond here in Wisconsin. Restoration is a different process. I was just trying to help the OP and really could care less about what you or anyone else does in Ohio.

Zim

I would call a dozer guy and have him clean it out. If I had to have a permit to clean out my own pond - I would move.

If I moved every time I was frustrated by local regulations I would have to live in a travel trailer. LOL I believe I could find something to irritate me at any place on earth if I looked hard enough.

To be fair, if you build a big enough pond in Ohio, you'll need permits here as well.

Yes, a full 12 months before adding the fish you want. Perhaps some tadpoles too, but depending on your area they may elect to add themselves without you having to acquire them.

I stocked with store bought minnies by the pound, to avoid adding parasites. That said,
natural wild critters will get in there. It's natures way, you can't keep it "sterile".

Around here, taking a machine into a skunk cabbage patch is trouble, been there done it, once.
When the silt was cleaned out and waterway channeled the dozer went in but avoided the ditch. The niegbor did his earlier, with just an excavator, it took twice as long for more money.
I was just sharing my real experience, thinking it was a discussion. Things likely differ in other areas and waterways differ too.

The one thing I think of in hind sight. I wish I would have researched the Southern Giant Bluegill. A guy that no longer posts here talked them up a lot. I think he was in Ohio.

As far as permits, if everyone had common sense and seeked knowledge, but they do not.
Google up Johnstown flood. Those folks had more resources than anyone, but were too selfish to use em.

Around here if we want to build a pond we just call the dozer guy and build it.

I’d take the breach the dam, and then clean it out yourself adding a little structure, and spawning points for fish as well. Fix the dam then add some Minnie’s, and work up from there.

your the Man,Zim

One thing to keep in mind , trees on the bank can cause piping . In this neck of the woods a pond that size could be redredged with an extend-a-hoe !

Remember your average depth overall, needs to be 8’ or better. That’s the number I was give for this part of the country, I don’t know if that number changes from region to region ?

I'm not sure there's a state left that doesn't require a permit for building a new pond. I'm positive one's needed in Ohio, and has been for a long time.

I was kinda referring to redoing or working on a existing one.
your probably right if it new and visible to eyes.

Ohio's rules

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1521.06

makes me think back about the letter the guy got about the pond from the USACE about the dam building beavers.....some of you probably get a permit to fart as well cause you are following the Clean Air Act guidelines on emissions....

I was wrong - it was Michigan - I posted it - makes me chuckle.


Subject: Go Figure

This is a copy of an actual letter sent to Ryan DeVries, from the Michigan Department of Environmental Quality, State of Michigan. Wait till you read this guy’s response – but read the entire letter before you get to the response.

Mr. Ryan DeVries
2088 Dagget
Pierson, MI 49339
SUBJECT: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20;

Site Location: Montcalm County

Dear Mr. DeVries:

It has come to the attention of the Department of Environmental Quality that there has been recent unauthorized activity on the above referenced parcel of property. You have been certified as the legal landowner and/or contractor who did the following unauthorized activity:

Construction and maintenance of two wood debris dams across the outlet stream of Spring Pond.

A permit must be issued prior to the start of this type of activity. A review of the Department’s files shows that no permits have been issued.

Therefore, the Department has determined that this activity is in violation of Part 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.30101 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws annotated.

The Department has been informed that one or both of the dams partially failed during a recent rain event, causing debris and flooding at downstream locations. We find that dams of this nature are inherently hazardous and cannot be permitted.

The Department therefore orders you to cease and desist all activities at this location, and to restore the stream to a free-flow condition by removing all wood and brush forming the dams from the stream channel. All restoration work shall be completed no later than January 31, 2002.

Please notify this office when the restoration has been completed so that a follow-up site inspection may be scheduled by our staff. Failure to comply with this request or any further unauthorized activity on the site may result in this case being referred for elevated enforcement action.

We anticipate and would appreciate your full cooperation in this matter. Please feel free to contact me at this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely,
David L. Price
District Representative
Land and Water Management Division


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

RESPONSE:

Dear Mr. Price,

Re: DEQ File No. 97-59-0023; T11N; R10W, Sec. 20;
Montcalm County

Reference your certified letter dated 12/17/2000 has been referred to me to respond to. First of all, Mr. Ryan De Vries is not the legal landowner and/or contractor at 2088 Dagget, Pierson, Michigan.

I am the legal owner and a couple of beavers are in the (State unauthorized) process of constructing and maintaining two wood “debris” dams across the outlet stream of my Spring Pond.

While I did not pay for, authorize, nor supervise their dam project, I think they would be highly offended that you call their skillful use of natural building materials “debris.” I would like to challenge your department to attempt to emulate their dam project any time and/or any place you choose. I believe I can safely state there is no way you could ever match their dam skills, their dam resourcefulness, their dam ingenuity, their dam persistence, their dam determination and/or their dam work ethic.

As to your request, I do not think the beavers are aware that they must first fill out a dam permit prior to the start of this type of dam
activity. My first dam question to you is: (1) Are you trying to discriminate against my Spring Pond Beavers? or, (2) do you require all beavers throughout this State to conform to said dam request?

If you are not discriminating against these particular beavers, through the Freedom of Information Act I request completed copies of all those other applicable beaver dam permits that have been issued. Perhaps we will see if there really is a dam violation of P! art 301, Inland Lakes and Streams, of the Natural Resource and Environmental Protection Act, Act 451 of the Public Acts of 1994, being sections 324.3010,1 to 324.30113 of the Michigan Compiled Laws, annotated. I have several concerns. My first concern is aren’t the beavers entitled to legal representation?

The Spring Pond Beavers are financially destitute and are unable to pay for said representation – so the State will have to provide them with a lawyer.

The Department’s dam concern that either one or both of the dams failed during a recent rain event causing flooding is proof that this is a natural occurrence, which the Department is required to protect. In other words, we should leave the Spring Pond Beavers alone rather than harrass them and call their dam names. If you want the stream “restored” to a dam free-flow condition – please contact the beavers – but if you are going to arrest them they obviously did not pay any attention to your dam letter (being unable to read English).

In my humble ! opinion, the Spring Pond Beavers have a right to build their unauthorized dams as long as the sky is blue, the grass is green and water flows downstream. They have more dam right than I do to live and enjoy Spring Pond. If the Department of Natural Resources and Environmental Protection lives up to its name, it should protect the natural resources (Beavers) and the environment (Beavers’ Dams).

So, as far as the beavers and I are concerned, this dam case can be referred for more elevated enforcement action right now. Why wait until 1/31/2002 The Spring Pond Beavers may be under the dam ice then, and there will be no way for you or your dam staff to contact/harass them then.

In conclusion, I would like to bring to your attention a real environmental quality (health) problem in the area. It is the bears.
Bears are actually defecating in our woods. I definitely believe you should be persecuting the defecating bears and leave the beavers alone.

If you are going to investigate the beaver dam, watch your step! (The bears are not careful where they dump!)

Being unable to comply with your dam request, and being unable to contact you on your answering machine, I am sending this response to your office via another government organization – the USPS. Maybe, someday, it will get there.

Sincerely,
Stephen L. Tvedten
The University of Texas at: Austin
Office Community Relations/Accounting unit
P.O. Box 7367
Austin, TX 78713

O thus be it ever, when free men shall stand; Between their loved homes and the war’s desolation; Blessed with victory and peace, may the heaven’s rescued land; Praise the power that hath made, and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just; And this be our motto,

“In God is our Trust”; And the Star Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave, O’er the land of the free & the home of the brave. (last verse of the National Anthem)

Treedablackdog that was funny, been awhile since I saw that.
You other guys from PA. MO. KS. MN. IN. OH, IL. and such may want to brush up on Wisconsin law before ya offer advice.

Zim

georgia giant hybrid bluegill. i believe the guy that started them is no longer in business but his son is and is on facebook.

i put a couple hundred in my pond. i have caught several over 13 inches with the biggest right at 13 1/2.

How abouts if it is 1/4 acres or less? Yup no permit.

Go to the Pond Boss Forum. There is a wealth of information on there on building or reclaiming a pond as well as vegetation and stocking fish. Lot of people there who know what they are talking about and are willing to help.

Starbits

We were looking at busting the dike out but are worried that a bulldozer would compack and seal the natural springs in the pond

Unless you are disturbing a wetland or placing fill in a floodzone.

Zim

I agree with starbits.Ask on a forum where people know what they are talking about,lol.

^ this, look at it as a return on your taxes.

Here it is the County Extension Office, part of the Dept of Ag.

ALWAYS dig / build a pond with it shallower in the center and deeper around the edges........to allow for silting in...of course the dam end is already set like that.

Also, join at least 2 forums by Googling the 1 mentioned and "farm pond owners forum" or the like.