I wrote that speech 30 years ago, so the wolves there pretty much died off?

[quote=Tactical.20]

We wildlife managers (hunters/trappers) can use this to point to why we're essential to an ecosystem.

Has anyone been to the Isle? Not me, I don't know a whole lot about it. Do they have ferries? Probly be cheaper to ferry hunters to the Isle to help control that moose population. Wonder if that option was considered?

[quote=Tweed][quote=Tactical.20]

We wildlife managers (hunters/trappers) can use this to point to why we're essential to an ecosystem.

White, Sharon, and others.

I've not kept up recently with the Isle Royale situation, although a lot of Dave Mech's earlier work (several decades ago) was real good wolf/moose interaction work, done on Isle Royale.

In my opinion, it doesn't take a metric boatload of wolves (or any other vertebrate species, for that matter) as founder populations to increase the genetic diversity and reduce the incidence of inbreeding, with resultant bottlenecks, birth deformities, and reduced vigor of the population. Geneticists and other biologist-types have for years relied on mathematical models and come up with astounding numbers that are "critical" to ensure genetic diversity. On the other hand, there are documented realities from a variety of species that have done well over many generations with a founder population of two. (Long as one's a male and one's a female). I'm not advocating reintroduction of wolves on Isle Royale. I seem to remember not too long ago that the National Park Service was advocating letting it "naturally" repopulate (or not) and see what happens (as Pete mentioned above).

In a Park situation, especially one that's "insular" (isolated from other populations), kick-starting the wolf population will probably result in rapid increases in the wolf population, the result being a decline in prey (moose) populations. Without management, the pendulum will again swing in favor of wolves, and the vicious cycle will undoubtedly repeat itself over the next few decades. Predator/Prey populations have historically never been in "balance" over the long-term. It is a roller-coaster of selective highs-and-lows. These wild cycles can be moderated, to the long-term benefit of both species, with reasonable management (sportsmen harvest). Obviously, that isn't going to happen in a National Park.

My two-cents worth...

Jack

If the wolves are inbred because of isolation, wouldn't that also apply to the moose ? Do we see the same types of impact on ungulates that we might see in canids over generations ?

The island moose like many other isolates are smaller.

White, Sharon, and others.

I've not kept up recently with the Isle Royale situation, although a lot of Dave Mech's earlier work (several decades ago) was real good wolf/moose interaction work, done on Isle Royale.

In my opinion, it doesn't take a metric boatload of wolves (or any other vertebrate species, for that matter) as founder populations to increase the genetic diversity and reduce the incidence of inbreeding, with resultant bottlenecks, birth deformities, and reduced vigor of the population. Geneticists and other biologist-types have for years relied on mathematical models and come up with astounding numbers that are "critical" to ensure genetic diversity. On the other hand, there are documented realities from a variety of species that have done well over many generations with a founder population of two. (Long as one's a male and one's a female). I'm not advocating reintroduction of wolves on Isle Royale. I seem to remember not too long ago that the National Park Service was advocating letting it "naturally" repopulate (or not) and see what happens (as Pete mentioned above).

In a Park situation, especially one that's "insular" (isolated from other populations), kick-starting the wolf population will probably result in rapid increases in the wolf population, the result being a decline in prey (moose) populations. Without management, the pendulum will again swing in favor of wolves, and the vicious cycle will undoubtedly repeat itself over the next few decades. Predator/Prey populations have historically never been in "balance" over the long-term. It is a roller-coaster of selective highs-and-lows. These wild cycles can be moderated, to the long-term benefit of both species, with reasonable management (sportsmen harvest). Obviously, that isn't going to happen in a National Park.

My two-cents worth...

Jack

Smaller than what Tweed ?? What species are they ? ??

Has anyone been to the Isle? Not me, I don't know a whole lot about it. Do they have ferries? Probly be cheaper to ferry hunters to the Isle to help control that moose population. Wonder if that option was considered?