Voice your opinion all you want, I’m just saying don’t run around whining about advertising when what they are doing, isn’t even advertising. People are getting themselves all worked up and getting hurt feelings over something that isn’t even what they think it is.

C’mon Catch!

What is the saying? Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts?

And the fact is, what they are doing isn’t advertising!

So what should they do, not mention products they like to use? Someone might complain or not like it?

If you don’t want o buy their product or by the products they talk about. Then don’t do it. They aren’t selling anything, just taking about their products.

have a wonderful day!

Well we can agree to disagree on this subject Rob. But, We'll agree on some good tunes on the next tune thread. Have a good one man.

Heck yeah brother!

and that folks is how a discussion with 2 people that don't agree should end.rare as hens teeth

I've seen several demos over the years from different trappers/lure-bait makers coon, beaver, fox, rats and the list goes on. I will say this I have never seen anyone do a demo like Mark June does. I have met him at conventions only and purchased some of his products. I have seen him several times over the years ask a KID out of the audience to come out and help him and when he is finished he hands the kid a packet full of his baits, lures etc.
I have NEVER seen any other lure/bait distributor do that. IMO Mark June and anyone else running a small business has had there fare share of battles with there business especially in todays world and my hat is off to them.

When I had my small engine business I sold Stihl products. When someone was interested in a backpack leaf blower, I would take them out to the parking lot lay a brick on the cement and push it across the parking lot with the air from the blower. I didn't sell it, it sold itself. Same holds true with lures/baits, you just have to decide where you want to spend your money.

Here's the real problem, young folks today DON'T want to pay there dues and work at anything. They have the easy street, hand it to me mentality. I see it every day.

My advise start a small business work 7 days a week and then come back and tell us how easy it is.

B

This is great stuff! I'm learning more about most of you than I have the whole time I have been on here.

Mark, I'm not learning much about you Buddy. You have always been the way you are so I'm going to use you as an example if you don't mind. When I first Met Mark. He was selling his lures in a booth. He was talking about his lures and trapping. Later I saw a demo and he included a kid from the audience and he gave him a bottle of lure. What I have learned over the years about Mark is that he likes to trap and he makes lures and he makes a living selling lures and instruction and he's pretty sharp at it. He's an out of the box thinker. I see Mark as one of the trapping world's success stories. He has gotten where he is by working hard and probably getting support from his wife and some other family members and friends. Mark June is his own brand of person and that's what I like about Mark. I can say this about many people on this site but what I can't say about anyone else is that they are Mark. Since we are not all going to get along with everyone why get hung up on a guys personality if he is selling something. Like BBarnes says above- ''it sells itself''. You might learn something.

Why in the world would anyone have a tool box with only a hammer in it? If that is all you had would everything look like a nail? Of course not. So why do you guys look at people but not accept them for who they are and celebrate the differences? You might learn something.

This is Paul's website. He made the rules and the rules are his rules. Why argue with him. You might learn something. Thanks for this great opportunity Paul- Did you guys know he in the NTA Hall of Fame?

I like Bryces questions.

PCR2 - remember when two guys could argue and then go have a beer together and it was fine?

Mercer is it a turn off because he is a lure dealer or because he says what lure he is using and why? When I watch a trapping DVD I like to know what lure they use, how much, what time of year it is, what part of the country they are trapping in and why they are picking the spot they pick. Mark cover those things well I think. In a j lord trapping video James talked about a cat gland lure he likes and say for the people who watch some of his other videos they know what it is then later finally says it dobins perfect, and I want to know what he used at his sets. I don't see a problem telling what you use and why. If Anything it shows that many diffent lures from many diffent people will get the job done and that it's mostly what you prefer to use and how you use it. If I was watching a DVD and the trapper was saying how this lure here is the only one to use or that nothing will top it, then that would be a turn of for me. I will buy and watch one of your cage trapping DVDs Mercer but at the end I would hope I know what brand of cage you use and like,so I could give it a look.

The biggest things holding back a new trapper is the lack of confidence, experience and knowledge and that needs to be covered in a demo to help with those issues! IMO If your an experienced trapper your looking for another "tool" and not shopping for a whole "tool box" at a demo but some are looking for just that.


I remember starting out and buying a pile of traps and when it came down to it when I went to set the first one I had no clue or confidence enough to know where to set them at location wise. Think back demo's are set up for learning!

I’ll agree with Mark about todays kids. Society is a changing, I’m 35 and I think I was close to the last class in high school that actually knows what the constitution is. Everyone these days is a sheep, and their heads are buried up in their smart phones, snap chat, Facebook, etc etc etc. the sad thing is, parents are lazy and allow their children to be raised by their phones and tablets. Kid starts fussing, toss them a phone and then bury their heads back in their phone.

I’ve never met Mark and don’t use his products. I will say from what I’ve heard I wouldn’t be scared to use them. I’m a big fan of lure makers that take time for the kids. I’ve seen several well known lure makers quit talking to a potential sale to give a kid a free jar of lure and tell them how to use it.

Just my 0.02 worth, lots of good posts here, along with some not so good!

My .02 cents yes it has thanks to way to much info. Common sense is gone with MOST, except for the real outdoorsmen and women. To much instant gradification, no patience. Iv'e spoke with Mark quite a few times at convensions, never had a bad vib, never tried to push his wares. Answered every question with his own experiences.
There are some things I share, some I don't just for my own protection.

Alot of the bad feelings start from envy, which is a bad human trait.
Any lure is only as good as the location and how it's set.
Thanks to Paul we have this website to share knowledge, tools and tactics. Whithout drama.. hopefully!

Kids are THE future!!

Mark,
You're response is exactly what I mean when I mention a guy that has to promote his product 24-7. You can't even make a reply to me in this post without mentioning two more of your lures. There's people on here that have mentioned a product or one service they provide while answering someone's response on a thread, and they have been told they can't do that because of the advertising rule (How do I know this you might ask? I've received plenty of private messages confirming such). It's Paul's site and its a great resource for trappers so overall he has the last word on what can and can't be posted. I respect that but I also prefer everyone is on a level playing field. I have been a lurker on this site from before the crash and honestly I'm not sure why I'm not a lurker again.


I watched your demo and it wasn't just a mention of a lure here and there it was a constant reminder of your products. You can jump around the words trash or non-target. They mean the same to me, and I don't feel like God is going to judge me based off the use of either of those words. Possums are of no value to me, and they end up the same place as the trash. There's nothing derogatory about it. If you send me a free 16 ounces of it, and pay the shipping I have no doubt I can run it right next to any other commercial bait and have the same catch rate of "non-targets." I had no pre-conceived notion of you prior to your demo. I'd read your book, and used your lure. I had also followed you for a number of years prior to watching the demo. When I saw it the first thing you reminded me of is the used car salesman that chases you around the lot. In my opinion that's not someone I want to do business with and I haven't since.

You bring up the fact that you bring kids into the demo, and then there's mention of you giving lure/bait to children by another poster. That's great as I am a firm believer in exposing children into trapping especially at a young age. This goes back to the fact that you do it in a way of self promotion. There's plenty of other lure makers out there that simply give children lure without asking for a pat on the back. I recently spent a day at the annual Nebraska children's trappers education class, and there were hundreds of dollars worth of equipment and lures given to children by other companies without a single plug for those companies. They'll likely get my business only because of their selfless promotion of trapping in children, which in my opinion right or wrong is not why you provide lure to children in your demos.

I don't have an allegiance to anyone and have ran a pretty good variety of lures/baits. Some definitely outperform others and have become the ones I reach for so I have downgraded the amount of baits/lures I use considerably. Some lures/baits I simply won't buy because I don't like the personality of the man selling it. You won't find me behind another lure maker's booth. I'm also not a grouchy guy sitting behind a keyboard. I work to provide for my family and enjoy the trapping heritage just as much as anyone on this board. Sometimes I might come across as completely negative, but I have a blunt personality and don't dance around with words. You can practice your right to self promotion, and I will continuously express my disdain for it.

This has been a lengthy subject with lots of comment on many sides .One of the most recent comments mentioned that Mark June often includes a kid in his demos .No matter why he does that, it is smart business and without having ever met the man was most likely just a genuine good hearted effort towards the kid and promoting the future of trapping .I can tell you for a fact I have seen more than one lure dealer hand a kid a bottle of lure ,tell him it was free and than said when you start catching animals with it don't let Dad use it . And I have had dealers give me a free bottle of lure without me having made a purchase . I am glad that the discussion has been able to get to 7 pages long .Thanks to all that have commented for keeping it civil .I have be able to learn something through the discussion .

Wait you mean the vendors at the trapping convictions that have gave me a free bottle of lure or bait after I talked to them a bit was just using me for a marketing gimmick?!?!?! The free duke traps that my daughter has won at the trap toss that is announced to every one was donated by bill duke is a marketing gimmick?!?!? So all that stuff wasn't did out of good harted thoughtfulness?!?!? Well heck I don't want any more free stuff then. So guess when the vendors donate trapping lure, bait and supplies for the auction this year I will say no you are just trying to promote your self. Dang learn something new every day I guess

Many ways to looks at any issue the fact is people are people, I don't know of any person that runs a successful business that got anyplace by not promoting it. That's where the feeding the family and paying the bills part comes from for them.

I agree with Ryan on may points of the hard sell being a turn off but also know Mark is not selling snake oil either the last bottle of his lure I had was packed full of glands I was impressed.

Giving a kid a free item is a great way to have them involved in the future and they are so thrilled in having their own trapping item (big time trapper now) they are clueless about any promotion they are on cloud nine. Many trapping organizations need promotion items for their drawing to raise funds for the fights they have ahead to pay expenses. Often items are exchanged for free table space or a tailgating place as thanks.

Marks a good guy that makes a good product if he wore a chicken suit to do a demo that would not change a thing it's not that big of a deal.

Have seen many a time a shooting star that comes along and nails 2 things together that has never been nailed together before and tells everyone they are wrong and the people pine over the guy that is gone as fast as he showed up. LOL

What I was trying to say is we need to promote trapping to the next generation or to a non trapper that not a kid but an adult .I know plenty of people that are not in favor of any type of trapping .If we as trappers are not doing our best to recruit new trappers we will all be former trappers . There is a line in an old Bob Dylan song that goes like this "We all did feel the same we just saw it from a different point of view "

That would be great many folks do promote the sport but some just suck the life out everything for some reason but life goes on! LOL

You sorry sheister's rank right up there with traveling snake oil salesmen! Heck I know some of you who do sell snake oil and now to go a step further beaver tail oil, snake oil/beaver tail oil, what's the difference, your all a bunch of crooks! hahaha

I can smell the sarcasm from here. My point is there’s two ways it’s done. Some do it thoughtlessly without a second thought to promote trapping in general, and do not expect a pat on the back. Others use the donation to point out how wonderful they are to promote their own personal product or to cover certain characteristics they’re lacking.

One thing I can count on from Mark. Every year this time it’s the same poor me lure maker trying to make a living song and dance. On this very forum. Happens to coincide right with the peak of trapping season starting. Coincidence or another tactic by an expert manipulator. Reading some of these responses I guess he’s doing something right. I guess I just couldn’t scroll by this years sob story without interjecting my thoughts. Carry on.

WR - Not sure why I'm the subject of each of your posts? You outta bullets yet or you plan to keep shooting?
I will tell you no matter what you think of me, I'm always cordial on a public forum. There are kids on here.
You seem to be intentionally personal in your posts and I was hoping more for a civil thread, so maybe steer the boat to that channel.
I agree, you're correct, you don't dance around, and you do come across negatively.
And "trash" and "non-target" don't have the same meaning brother. Sorry.

My fur buyer has a kids bucket that every kid that comes in gets a prize not like that kid can drive back for many years on his own to take advantage of the promotion angle and not like dad won't sell someplace else for a few bucks more maybe!

There is a saying in Chicago, "You grow up learning right from wrong and then learn to accept what is not!" If I was selling lure in this present market for a living I might squeal a bit myself. LOL

Sold a lot of AR parts over the last 6 years and now their is no market so I can feel that pain myself a bit just the way it is.