No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers ***NO POLITICS
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6330998
09/22/18 10:52 PM
09/22/18 10:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,997
Magna, Utah
G
GritGuy Offline
trapper
GritGuy  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,997
Magna, Utah
Density in fur is genetics, health and diet, though the latitude in which the animal lives has a lot of bearing on it as well !


[Linked Image]

Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331006
09/22/18 11:01 PM
09/22/18 11:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Look at a prime chart as each furbearer is NOT the same, badgers are way at the end of the scale each critter has it's own "range of prime" not all are the same or do they just start on a certain date if that were true we would have a date to go by then you would think!

Found this as a example~



Last edited by Law Dog; 09/22/18 11:02 PM.

Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331013
09/22/18 11:28 PM
09/22/18 11:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,044
Goldsboro, North Carolina
Paul Dobbins Online content
"Trapperman custodian"
Paul Dobbins  Online Content
"Trapperman custodian"

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,044
Goldsboro, North Carolina
In 1987 I set some fox traps on my line near North Pole, AK. It was opening day of trapping season, which was somewhere around the first or tenth of November. I don't recall. Anyway, Halloween night it got down to 10 and up to 20 degrees. On the 1st of November, it got down to 4 and up to 25 degrees. I caught a cross fox that first night and it was as blue as blue could be. I was amazed that it could be that blue when it was that cold. Dad then told me that it was the amount of daylight that was the most governing factor in fur priming.

Here's that fox.



John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

[Linked Image]
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331014
09/22/18 11:32 PM
09/22/18 11:32 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline
trapper
Law Dog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 36,267
Central, SD
Me and Abby took a shower tonight and when wet her skin was very white she has a thick pelt now but she was losing some short hairs not sure if that was shedding or not she lost her longer fur about 4-5 weeks ago.

Before shower.


Last edited by Law Dog; 09/22/18 11:34 PM.

Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331041
09/23/18 04:58 AM
09/23/18 04:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,611
Timmins Ontario
G
gibb Offline
trapper
gibb  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,611
Timmins Ontario
The first thing to grow out in the priming cycle is the guard hair which again can fool you into thinking the fur is ready. It takes time for the underfur to fill in.

Don't go by the open seasons in most locations, government react to less and less trappers by opening the seasons early and early to suck trappers into free wildlife control work. In my home province of Ontario our season now starts Oct. 5th and runs to the end April and in some areas till the middle of May.
Its the trapper who gets screwed catching easy beaver in open water that nobody in the fur business wants or needs. Society gains by the dumb (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) trapper removing problem beaver for free.

Again only a small window of prime fur.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331045
09/23/18 05:19 AM
09/23/18 05:19 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 454
ky
R
Redsleeves Offline
trapper
Redsleeves  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 454
ky
Are primes fur for the yr coincides with are shortest days witch here is around 10.5 too 11 hrs. That's looking at daylight charts and notes on when I've caught the prime of the prime, it's a short window for sure but like lawdog said different critters prime different times,so there's someing to target most all season. That is most not all. I'm a believer that it's day length not temp that primes fur. It changes leaves, makes Turkey's breed,song birds fly north or south, day length and moon phase does more than most people realize. Some times it stays in the 70s till Christmas here but you still catch white leather thick furred coon and mink, and no matter how cold it get in late Jan and Feb my fur is going the other way. That's wy when the question is ask when is your coon the primest ever body's answer dates are on either side of the winter solstice "shortest day of the yr" from Manie to Gorgia. I may be wrong but it's the only pattern I've been able to see!
Colt

Last edited by Redsleeves; 09/23/18 05:22 AM.
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Redsleeves] #6331047
09/23/18 05:24 AM
09/23/18 05:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,708
New York ,Adirondack mts.
M
mole Offline
"The Tman morning greeter"
mole  Offline
"The Tman morning greeter"
M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,708
New York ,Adirondack mts.
DEc 21 shortest day of the year. Sunrise here in NY 7;17 Am Alabama 6 ;42 Am Sunset NY 4 ;32 pm Alabama 4 ;44 pm . there is a difference but not all that much in the length of daylight but there sure is a difference in the fur quality between NY and Alabama

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331055
09/23/18 05:55 AM
09/23/18 05:55 AM
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,945
perry co.Pa
wetdog Offline
trapper
wetdog  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 6,945
perry co.Pa
The coon in central Pa are not white leather prime until Thanksgiving. Fox are second week of Dec.
The only way prolonged cold will would change the time fur primes, is if the cold was experienced under constant cloud cover. The way the ranches do it.
Photoperiodisam and Bergamens rule are the two ruling factors on fur prime. All other variables are minor changes in the time fur primes. Say a week or so one way or the other. Just my experience

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331076
09/23/18 06:40 AM
09/23/18 06:40 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 454
ky
R
Redsleeves Offline
trapper
Redsleeves  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 454
ky
You can put fans on show cattle to make there hair grow longer "for fitting" but it don't make um prime.
Cold may make the quality of prime fur better and clearly does. But from what I've seen it does not bring on prime.
Colt

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331077
09/23/18 06:42 AM
09/23/18 06:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,396
Frazee, MN
B
backroadsarcher Offline
trapper
backroadsarcher  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,396
Frazee, MN
x2 on daylight. That coon that is put up doesn't look to bad.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331224
09/23/18 09:25 AM
09/23/18 09:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,169
South Dakota
R
Rat Masterson Offline
trapper
Rat Masterson  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,169
South Dakota
A 25 lb male coon will be white leathered 3rd week of October, fur will not be finished. I had an old time fur buyer tell me a cold rainy period would help finish coon. Maybe this year we will get a foot of snow the 15th of Nov. that will make people glad they waited.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331233
09/23/18 09:43 AM
09/23/18 09:43 AM
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,980
New York
P
proratman Offline
trapper
proratman  Offline
trapper
P

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,980
New York
Everything in nature is controlled by the shortening of the daylight hour. From the beaver building his feed bed to the does coming into estrus, this will all happen no matter how warm or cold it is.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Paul Dobbins] #6331234
09/23/18 09:46 AM
09/23/18 09:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 840
North dakota
N
Nd native Offline OP
trapper
Nd native  Offline OP
trapper
N

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 840
North dakota
Originally Posted By: Paul Dobbins
In 1987 I set some fox traps on my line near North Pole, AK. It was opening day of trapping season, which was somewhere around the first or tenth of November. I don't recall. Anyway, Halloween night it got down to 10 and up to 20 degrees. On the 1st of November, it got down to 4 and up to 25 degrees. I caught a cross fox that first night and it was as blue as blue could be. I was amazed that it could be that blue when it was that cold. Dad then told me that it was the amount of daylight that was the most governing factor in fur priming.

Here's that fox.



This is exactly the type of example I was looking for.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331242
09/23/18 09:57 AM
09/23/18 09:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,358
Manitoba Canada
M
MB Coonguy Offline
trapper
MB Coonguy  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,358
Manitoba Canada
Originally Posted By: Nd native
This photo was taken Oct 29 last year. So the coon was probably taken a couple days earlier. Last year was a real warm fall.



That's just a baby!! LOL

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331254
09/23/18 10:21 AM
09/23/18 10:21 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,213
wyoming southeast
D
danvee Offline
trapper
danvee  Offline
trapper
D

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,213
wyoming southeast
Ditto, Ditto length of day for breeding and fur priming also genetics and food. I have read a study cant remember where but they took a weasel mid summer and started to adjust the light going into the pen. It turned white just like winter had affected the change. Im sure some of the fur ranchers could chime in on this subject as far as primness but I doubt they pelt any fox or mink in October.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331305
09/23/18 11:58 AM
09/23/18 11:58 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,611
Timmins Ontario
G
gibb Offline
trapper
gibb  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,611
Timmins Ontario
Bergmann's rule explains why we have different sections of the same animal. Animals,the further north you go are larger in size due to the cold and the need for larger body masses to cope with the colder weather. A good example are raccoon. the further north you go in their range the bigger the raccoon.

A raccoon in Florida, does not grow to the size of a raccoon in Wisconsin, neither does it need the same amount of fur density/quality that the larger Wisconsin raccoon would need to survive the winter.

Wolves are another good example on average the largest wolves are the Arctic type, the smallest are the eastern type wolves.

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Steven 49er] #6331366
09/23/18 01:12 PM
09/23/18 01:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,009
South metro, MN
C
Calvin Offline
trapper
Calvin  Offline
trapper
C

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 6,009
South metro, MN
Originally Posted By: Steven 49er
Early cold isnt going to do anything to change the course. It's daylight. If anything effects that rate this year is will be from the smoke of the fires out west darkening the days.

Calvin, you have to remember I can start a week or two earlier than you on coon if I was so inclined. You can start a week or two earlier than a guy 200 miles south of you.


True, Steven.
For some reason my mind computed ND Native with South Dakota. Dumb.

Another good point Rat Masterson....Plenty of seasons, there is very limited late Nov....or even mid Nov coon trapping here.

However, in todays fur world, lets try not to get a bunch of crap coon fur into the pipeline. It doesn't do us any good.

I remember years past, when we didn't have a coon season, Some local screwball went out and trapped a ton of coon in Sept. Sometimes we trappers are great at shooting ourselves in both feet.

Even in last years market, and cold, I took a measly few dozen coon for fun in mid November. They were very NICE....and actually paid. I might not do that every year if I didn't have rats to deal with, but it was worth the wait...and all those coon sold well. Just an observation.

Last edited by Calvin; 09/23/18 01:12 PM.
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331430
09/23/18 02:33 PM
09/23/18 02:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,787
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
W

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,787
McGrath, AK
You have to consider that the chart Law Dog posted does NOT indicate what area of the country it pertains to.


Mean As Nails
Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331489
09/23/18 04:18 PM
09/23/18 04:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,997
Magna, Utah
G
GritGuy Offline
trapper
GritGuy  Offline
trapper
G

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 8,997
Magna, Utah
Prime can actually mean two things to most who are familiar with the term.

Prime fur is denoted as full under fur, guard hairs all not harmed. No rubs, freeze downs or slips from bites or wounds.

Prime pelt is usually denoted as no blue showing on the flesh side of the leather, meaning all fur growth has been finished. Your short window is now in session, as it goes the other way the fur loosen's up for shedding and off it comes, again activated by light time amount.

So we should be careful when talking about prime in the course of description to it's use, it can get confusing pretty fast for those trying to understand the context in which it's used.


[Linked Image]

Sorry if my opinions or replies offend you, they are not meant to !

Re: Unseasonable prolonged cold prime fur sooner? [Re: Nd native] #6331513
09/23/18 04:55 PM
09/23/18 04:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,414
Idaho Falls, Idaho
F
Furvor Offline
trapper
Furvor  Offline
trapper
F

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,414
Idaho Falls, Idaho
To me, logic would say number of hours of daylight is the primary factor and that temperature has a secondary effect on priming. Water cools more slowly than air and would theoretically slightly delay priming of water animals. Dirt cools more slowly than water and would help explain the very late priming of badger. The New York chart posted above does not support that theory.

Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread